Hawaii's Dysfunctional Divisions

Give your high school or alumni a shout out! Talk about high school sports in this forum.
bow89
Pom pom fluffer
Pom pom fluffer
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:41 am

Re: Hawaii's Dysfunctional Divisions

Post by bow89 »

Most ILH schools only care about beating other ILH schools in every sport. Even so, they don't think that just because Punahou beat us in football, we will somehow get revenge by beating them in another sport. We simply want to beat Punahou in all sports because they are Punahou. Likewise, just because Maryknoll beat us in basketball, it doesn't mean that our baseball team will try to get back at them for our basketball defeat.

HS Football Fanatic
*True Sports Fan*
*True Sports Fan*
Posts: 4627
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:15 pm

Re: Hawaii's Dysfunctional Divisions

Post by HS Football Fanatic »

@bow89: Well, of course, the ILH and OIA each have their separate rivalries. But remember, my initial post on this discussion was about the alumni. In the discussion I had with some of the wrestling guys on this message-board, granted, most high school players are caught-up in their own particular sports. But, many alumni are interested in how the alma mater is doing in many sports. After all, each team of a school is representing that school, and that school has an alumni following. There may be some alumni who focus only on one sport, perhaps the sport they played at the school. But I suspect most alumni don't have that narrow a focus, and why should they? Seems reasonable to assume that the average alumnus has at least a passing interest in how the old school is doing in all kinds of sports.

I guess what I'm saying is that yeah, a school's team is focused on winning games in their particular sport. Yes, they're not necessarily trying to beat a school just because that school beat their own school in some other sport. But, neither can we totally discount defeats in other sports as a possible motivator, especially if the two teams from the same school have some of the same players. That's all I'm saying. I mentioned (though not by name) Bianco, who was St Louis' starting QB and a starter on the basketball team. I doubt that we can convince anyone that as he helped St Louis kick Kahuku's butts in basketball, that he didn't even once think about how Kahuku kicked St Louis' butts in football. It's reasonable to assume that that probably provided at least a little motivation for him. And don't get me started on how the alumni probably felt about it.

bow89
Pom pom fluffer
Pom pom fluffer
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:41 am

Re: Hawaii's Dysfunctional Divisions

Post by bow89 »

"And don't get me started on how the alumni probably felt about it."

As someone who is pretty well connected to the alumni and SLS, I can say that revenge was not a topic of conversation. After beating Kahuku, the only thing being discussed was what does the team need to do to beat Baldwin. Perhaps if the teams play in the football championship next year some people might think of the revenge factor, but this does not cross over into other sports.

gopunahou
*True Sports Fan*
*True Sports Fan*
Posts: 3936
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:50 am

Re: Hawaii's Dysfunctional Divisions

Post by gopunahou »

bow89 wrote: Tue Mar 01, 2022 10:35 pm "And don't get me started on how the alumni probably felt about it."

As someone who is pretty well connected to the alumni and SLS, I can say that revenge was not a topic of conversation. After beating Kahuku, the only thing being discussed was what does the team need to do to beat Baldwin. Perhaps if the teams play in the football championship next year some people might think of the revenge factor, but this does not cross over into other sports.
He also assumes that every living alum of a given HS would hate it if they lost (especially to a rival). Believe me, there are Punahou alums who'd LOVE to see us lose. All because they were part of cliques that rivaled that of the jocks.
Punahou Football: 12-1, 2008 ILH and State Champions! 11-0, 2013 ILH and State Champions, a team for the ages!

HS Football Fanatic
*True Sports Fan*
*True Sports Fan*
Posts: 4627
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:15 pm

Re: Hawaii's Dysfunctional Divisions

Post by HS Football Fanatic »

bow89 wrote: Tue Mar 01, 2022 10:35 pm "And don't get me started on how the alumni probably felt about it."

As someone who is pretty well connected to the alumni and SLS, I can say that revenge was not a topic of conversation. After beating Kahuku, the only thing being discussed was what does the team need to do to beat Baldwin. Perhaps if the teams play in the football championship next year some people might think of the revenge factor, but this does not cross over into other sports.
@bow89:

Perhaps all of us need to be careful of making assumptions. I don't think any one person can speak for all the alumni of a school, and that goes for me, too. Really, I'm just talking in general terms. I'm not dogmatically trying to speak for all alumni of any particular school. Likewise, I don't think we can make the assumption that the "revenge factor" doesn't cross-over into other sports. Hey, I personally know someone who doesn't like a certain school just because she--yes, it's a woman--doesn't like their soccer fans. Bet you weren't aware of that, unless you happen to know her, too. So, I think it's imcumbent upon all of us--myself included--not to overreact to someone's posts.
Last edited by HS Football Fanatic on Wed Mar 02, 2022 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

HS Football Fanatic
*True Sports Fan*
*True Sports Fan*
Posts: 4627
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:15 pm

Re: Hawaii's Dysfunctional Divisions

Post by HS Football Fanatic »

gopunahou wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:14 am
bow89 wrote: Tue Mar 01, 2022 10:35 pm "And don't get me started on how the alumni probably felt about it."

As someone who is pretty well connected to the alumni and SLS, I can say that revenge was not a topic of conversation. After beating Kahuku, the only thing being discussed was what does the team need to do to beat Baldwin. Perhaps if the teams play in the football championship next year some people might think of the revenge factor, but this does not cross over into other sports.
He also assumes that every living alum of a given HS would hate it if they lost (especially to a rival). Believe me, there are Punahou alums who'd LOVE to see us lose. All because they were part of cliques that rivaled that of the jocks.
@gopunahou:

Well, honestly, don't you think that's a little messed-up? For an alumnus of a school to hope his alma mater loses because he didn't like the jocks when he was there? I mean, I really don't know what to say about that. I'm quite disappointed to hear that Punahou School has alumni like that, and that's even though, as you know, I don't care for that school.

bow89
Pom pom fluffer
Pom pom fluffer
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:41 am

Re: Hawaii's Dysfunctional Divisions

Post by bow89 »

HS Football Fanatic wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 7:26 am
bow89 wrote: Tue Mar 01, 2022 10:35 pm "And don't get me started on how the alumni probably felt about it."

As someone who is pretty well connected to the alumni and SLS, I can say that revenge was not a topic of conversation. After beating Kahuku, the only thing being discussed was what does the team need to do to beat Baldwin. Perhaps if the teams play in the football championship next year some people might think of the revenge factor, but this does not cross over into other sports.
@bow89:

Perhaps all of us need to be careful of making assumptions. I don't think any one person can speak for all the alumni of a school, and that goes for me, too. Really, I'm just talking in general terms. I'm not dogmatically trying to speak for all alumni of any particular school. Likewise, I don't think we can make the assumption that the "revenge factor" doesn't cross-over into other sports. Hey, I personally know someone who doesn't like a certain school just because she--yes, it's a woman--doesn't like their soccer fans. Bet you weren't aware of that, unless you happen to know her, too. So, I think it's imcumbent upon all of us--myself included--not to overreact to someone's posts.
I cannot speak for the woman who obviously did not attend SLS. However, in general, I am saying that getting revenge on Kahuku because of what occurred in football was not the topic of conversation among students or alumni. I am sorry that many of us do not share the same level of intensity about other schools that you believe should be present. This is not to say that ILH schools don't want to beat each other on a constant basis, but it has to do with history and tradition rather than revenge. You would be hard pressed to find any ILH schools who want to get revenge on Maryknoll's baseball team because Maryknoll won a basketball championship due to the fact that Maryknoll has never been a traditional rival with any of the top sports schools. Likewise, since Damien is no longer an all boys school, there isn't the same level of dislike between Saint Louis and Damien.

HS Football Fanatic
*True Sports Fan*
*True Sports Fan*
Posts: 4627
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:15 pm

Re: Hawaii's Dysfunctional Divisions

Post by HS Football Fanatic »

@bow89:

I mentioned that woman to illustrate that we simply cannot assume that there are no "cross-resentments". How? Well, imagine: If someone resents an entire school just because of how she perceived its soccer fans to be, we certainly can't assume that there are no "cross-resentments" regarding getting beaten in one sport, and then wanting to "compensate" in another. (I'm trying to avoid the word, "revenge", as you obviously object to it.) Obviously, that would be a lot more understandable than how that woman feels. Now, notice that I'm trying to be careful and non-dogmatic here. Different alumni can have varying levels of "intensity" about other schools. I'm officially acknowledging that here. I mean, we who post here can't expect everyone else to feel the same way about everything. So, if you do not have a "high level of intensity" about other schools, there's nothing wrong with that. I'm not insisting that you feel the same as I do, about anything. Furthermore, this isn't just an ILH thing; obviously it would apply to the OIA as well. Both leagues have rivalries. My point is, neither you nor I can assume that alumni do or don't care about "cross-resentments". I can also see right away that we probably can't dogmatically say that a rivalry has either waxed or waned. Each alumnus looks at these matters through his own prism. For example, I don't think we can really say that there isn't the same level of dislike between Damien School and St Louis School just because Damien School now has girls. I don't think we can simply assume that. You might feel that way, and other St Louis alumni might feel that way. But, you don't know how all St Louis alumni feel, nor do you know how all Damien alumni feel. I think the key here is to avoid making too many assumptions, and to avoid painting everyone with the same broad brush. It would probably also be useful to avoid that classic psychological fallacy of projection.

gopunahou
*True Sports Fan*
*True Sports Fan*
Posts: 3936
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:50 am

Re: Hawaii's Dysfunctional Divisions

Post by gopunahou »

On the subject of boys soccer, I hope people who hate the ILH are following it. Both ILH representatives are out.
Punahou Football: 12-1, 2008 ILH and State Champions! 11-0, 2013 ILH and State Champions, a team for the ages!

HS Football Fanatic
*True Sports Fan*
*True Sports Fan*
Posts: 4627
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:15 pm

Re: Hawaii's Dysfunctional Divisions

Post by HS Football Fanatic »

@gopunahou: Well, I know there are some people who love the ILH. In the previous series of posts on this thread, I told of a woman who disliked Iolani School because she thought their soccer fans sucked. Well, there's another woman I know, who always supports ILH schools no matter what. What helps explain that is that she herself is an alumnus of an ILH school. As for me, I have no affinity for any particular league; I go strictly by the school. I mean, there are some ILH schools that I dislike, and there are some OIA schools that I'm not particularly fond of, either. Well, you know that unfortunately, I don't care for your alma mater. So, yes, I was relieved that they lost last night. But, I don't dislike Punahou School because they're in the ILH; I dislike them because they win so many titles, every year. And, yeah, I don't care for Iolani School (the other ILH rep in the tourney), either. But, as is the case with Punahou School, I don't dislike Iolani School because they're in the ILH; I dislike them because they win too many titles (not as many as Punahou School, but more than I would like them to), and, for the past 20 years or so, I've sensed a kind of "academic elitism" about them that I find kind of off-putting. Of course, that's a very subjective thing. After all, Punahou School is also academically elitist, but somehow it doesn't seem as extreme to me as Iolani School's academic elitism. It's a very subjective thing, but I've sensed it on Iolani School's part for some 20 years.

gopunahou
*True Sports Fan*
*True Sports Fan*
Posts: 3936
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:50 am

Re: Hawaii's Dysfunctional Divisions

Post by gopunahou »

HS Football Fanatic wrote: Fri Mar 04, 2022 3:34 pm @gopunahou: Well, I know there are some people who love the ILH. In the previous series of posts on this thread, I told of a woman who disliked Iolani School because she thought their soccer fans sucked. Well, there's another woman I know, who always supports ILH schools no matter what. What helps explain that is that she herself is an alumnus of an ILH school. As for me, I have no affinity for any particular league; I go strictly by the school. I mean, there are some ILH schools that I dislike, and there are some OIA schools that I'm not particularly fond of, either. Well, you know that unfortunately, I don't care for your alma mater. So, yes, I was relieved that they lost last night. But, I don't dislike Punahou School because they're in the ILH; I dislike them because they win so many titles, every year. And, yeah, I don't care for Iolani School (the other ILH rep in the tourney), either. But, as is the case with Punahou School, I don't dislike Iolani School because they're in the ILH; I dislike them because they win too many titles (not as many as Punahou School, but more than I would like them to), and, for the past 20 years or so, I've sensed a kind of "academic elitism" about them that I find kind of off-putting. Of course, that's a very subjective thing. After all, Punahou School is also academically elitist, but somehow it doesn't seem as extreme to me as Iolani School's academic elitism. It's a very subjective thing, but I've sensed it on Iolani School's part for some 20 years.
Careful, don't let uncivilized wastes of oxygen like Infidel hear you say that. :D
Punahou Football: 12-1, 2008 ILH and State Champions! 11-0, 2013 ILH and State Champions, a team for the ages!

HS Football Fanatic
*True Sports Fan*
*True Sports Fan*
Posts: 4627
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:15 pm

Re: Hawaii's Dysfunctional Divisions

Post by HS Football Fanatic »

@gopunahou:

Well, I mean, that's only a subjective perception on my part. This person Infidel has no obligation to agree.

locomoko
Pom pom fluffer
Pom pom fluffer
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:49 pm

Re: Hawaii's Dysfunctional Divisions

Post by locomoko »

UPDATE: St. Louis (2-0) undefeated thus far in ILH D2 volleyball, including a big season-opening win over Hanalani. In set 3, the mighty Crusaders ran up a 25-6 score.

HS Football Fanatic
*True Sports Fan*
*True Sports Fan*
Posts: 4627
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:15 pm

Re: Hawaii's Dysfunctional Divisions

Post by HS Football Fanatic »

@locomoko:

Yep. So, the question arises yet again: Why is St Louis in D2, in this case, for volleyball? I mean, for football, they're not only in D1; they're in Open. What's wrong with this picture? If they "belong" in D2 for volleyball, how did they kick Hanalani's butts, 25-6, in that set? I'd bet Hanalani alumni are saying, "Umm, there's something dysfunctional about the ILH's divisions". Not only is Hanalani not in Open for football; they don't have a football team. Yet St Louis is in the same division as they are for volleyball. How long will the ILH ignore the elephant in the room?

User avatar
XLT1000
Pom pom fluffer
Pom pom fluffer
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2022 10:14 pm
MLB: none
NBA: none
NFL: none
Contact:

Re: Hawaii's Dysfunctional Divisions

Post by XLT1000 »

Naturally the open division was made for the bigger kids. Kahuku, St. Louis High School, Waianae, those schools. Then you have division I, II playing for their respected trophy. I think it only seems there, when you have division II teams want to play for a title, but find themselves with another team just like them. So the open division was formed to showcase only the big kids. Year in and year out. This is the trend, but makes sense.

Post Reply