HS Hoops 2021-2022

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Re: HS Hoops 2021-2022

Post by HS Football Fanatic »

bow89 wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:32 pm For those complaining about Saint Louis playing D2 soccer and volleyball, you need to remember that Saint Louis is a relatively small school enrollment wise. Unless you are asking every student to play multiple sports, they usually don't have enough sport specific athletes to compete in D1. Just because they have a large squad playing football doesn't mean that the football students want to play soccer. No one complains that other Open division football schools play D2 sports or that Iolani plays D1 in all sports, but not football. Saint Louis' total high school enrollment is probably under 500 students. As was previously stated, SLS lost to Kamehameha 7-0. Are you saying that just because you are good in some sports, you should have your students go out and get clobbered by everyone in other sports? If that's the case, then Iolani should move up to the Open division whenever they win a D1 state championship in another sport.
@bow89:

1. OK, we know that St Louis is a football school. Just the same, if they can get about 90 players to go-out for Open football, guys are simply not going to accept that they can't field a soccer team decent enough for D1. And, yes, some football players are multiple-sport players. For example, Bianco plays football and basketball. Meanwhile, Arquette, a baseball player, also plays basketball.
2. If other Open football schools are in D2 for other sports, then yes, they should be called on it.
3. In the case of Iolani School, they're already in D1 for all sports, as far as I know. But, we can't necessarily expect them to go up to Open for football; the Open division is football-specific. Iolani is already in D1 for football.
Last edited by HS Football Fanatic on Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: HS Hoops 2021-2022

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locomoko wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:36 pm
bow89 wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:32 pm No one complains that other Open division football schools play D2 sports or that Iolani plays D1 in all sports, but not football. Saint Louis' total high school enrollment is probably under 500 students.
Sorry ... gotta correct a few misstatements here:
-- The rule I'm advocating is for all schools (not just St.L) to play all sports in the division of their football team and not lower.
-- Iolani does play D1 football.
-- St.L's enrollment may be "probably under 500 students," but they're all male. So if you want to compare that to a co-ed school, divide the other school by 2. MPI has about 800 students in high school, so that's about 400 boys. MPI plays D1 soccer and volleyball.
@locomoko:

You make a very good point: Since St Louis is a boys-only school, their enrollment should be multiplied by a factor of two. I.e., St Louis' effective enrollment should be considered "probably under 1,000 students".

Another good point you make is about Mid-Pac Institute. Their enrollment is so small that they've never had their own football team until joining the Hummers--which eventually became Pac-Five--in '73. Yet Mid-Pac has been manning-up, playing D1 soccer and volleyball and, I should add, D1 basketball and baseball. Hats off to Mid-Pac Institute.
Last edited by HS Football Fanatic on Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: HS Hoops 2021-2022

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ChadFukuoka wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:10 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:19 pm @ChadFukuoka:

Well, Moanalua's girls' team beat McKinley by the same score, 18-0, two weeks ago. I mean, some schools suck in girls' soccer, right? That's all there is to it. I'm sure Radford alumni and McKinley alumni are pissed by the scores, but what can you do? It is what it is. Now, Radford might be able to get revenge against Moanalua in girls' basketball, as they're 8-1. I'm afraid McKinley isn't going to get revenge against Moanalua in girls' basketball; they got blown-out by Kaiser last night, 50-10. That's not a typo; McKinley scored only ten points the entire game. I think the McKinley HC needs to give the girls warming the bench, another look. I mean, McKinley alumni must be really pissed about how that school's girls' soccer and girls' basketball teams are doing.

I think there's something really stupid going-on in ILH girls' soccer. They've got the 1 and 2 teams of the same school playing each other. The Punahou 1 team played the Punahou 2 team, winning 7-0. Does that strike anyone as stupid? If a school has a 2 team, there should be a separate division for them, as in D2. I mean, I don't like Punahou School, but I feel sorry for the girls on the Punahou 2 team. I think it sucks to put any school in the position of beating-up on another team from the same school. I think there's something very unfair, uncool, and awkward about it.
McKinley is really struggling in a lot of the major sports. Their football team has been losing for a while. I guess their girls soccer team is bad this year as well. I believe their baseball team has had some difficult seasons. You’ve mentioned they keep getting players poached by St Louis in football. Does this also happen for their other sports? Or is it a different problem?
@ChadFukuoka:

Yes, McKinley High is simply not very good in sports, which their alumni are probably pissed about. The only sport they're pretty good at is girls' tennis. We can blame St Louis School for raiding McKinley's football team, but as far as I know, St Louis isn't raiding them for any other boys' sports. So, McKinley High can blame only themselves for all boys' sports other than football. I should mention, however, that McKinley's boys' soccer team and boys' basketball team are pretty decent, especially the latter. But yes, their baseball team has been weak for at least the past 10 years. It's a pretty sucky situation in sports, overall, for McKinley High and its alumni. What can you do? It is what it is.

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Re: HS Hoops 2021-2022

Post by bow89 »

HS Football Fanatic wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 5:03 pm
locomoko wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:36 pm
bow89 wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:32 pm No one complains that other Open division football schools play D2 sports or that Iolani plays D1 in all sports, but not football. Saint Louis' total high school enrollment is probably under 500 students.
Sorry ... gotta correct a few misstatements here:
-- The rule I'm advocating is for all schools (not just St.L) to play all sports in the division of their football team and not lower.
-- Iolani does play D1 football.
-- St.L's enrollment may be "probably under 500 students," but they're all male. So if you want to compare that to a co-ed school, divide the other school by 2. MPI has about 800 students in high school, so that's about 400 boys. MPI plays D1 soccer and volleyball.
@locomoko:

You make a very good point: Since St Louis is a boys-only school, their enrollment should be multiplied by a factor of two. I.e., St Louis' effective enrollment should be considered "probably under 1,000 students".

Another good point you make is about Mid-Pac Institute. Their enrollment is so small that they've never had their own football team until joining the Hummers--which eventually became Pac-Five--in '73. Yet Mid-Pac has been manning-up, playing D1 soccer and volleyball and, I should add, D1 basketball and baseball. Hats off to Mid-Pac Institute.
You are just assuming that because you can field a 90 man football squad that you should force students to play a sport they don't want to play. We all know that D1 football is actually more like D2 so the Iolani excuse is not comparable. Using Mid Pac actually proves my point. If Mid Pac can field D1 teams in baseball, basketball, soccer and volleyball, they should be forced to field an Open Division football team, or at the very least, a D1 football team. According to your logic, they should not have been allowed to be a part of Pac 5. All their boys should be forced to go out for football and play multiple sports.

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Re: HS Hoops 2021-2022

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bow89 wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:22 pm You are just assuming that because you can field a 90 man football squad that you should force students to play a sport they don't want to play. We all know that D1 football is actually more like D2 so the Iolani excuse is not comparable. Using Mid Pac actually proves my point. If Mid Pac can field D1 teams in baseball, basketball, soccer and volleyball, they should be forced to field an Open Division football team, or at the very least, a D1 football team. According to your logic, they should not have been allowed to be a part of Pac 5. All their boys should be forced to go out for football and play multiple sports.
@bow89, you're really contorting what's being said here:

--Nobody is forcing St. Louis (or its students) to play a sport they don't want to play ... they ARE playing the sports today. Crusaders went to the 2019 state soccer final, featured the state's top player in any level (Gatorade award), and were as physical/rough/size-blessed as any team in the state D1/D2. Crusaders showed then that they can compete in D1 and belong there.

--Iolani plays D1 football. They play D1 in all other sports as they rightfully should. You're trying to argue that because Iolani plays D1 in all sports, they should be bumped up to Open in football. That makes no sense as @HS Football Fanatic has explained multiple times very well.

--No one but you is saying MPI should be forced to play Open football because they play top-level in other boys sports.

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Re: HS Hoops 2021-2022

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The year Saint Louis went to the D2 championship was an unusual situation where they had several football players who also grew up playing soccer, and Skyler Goo. This is not usually the case. You are saying that just because Saint Louis has some physical kids they should play D1 soccer. Shouldn't the same be said about Kahuku? If you are big but have never played soccer, you cannot compete with kids who play soccer year round. How many D2 state Championships has Saint Louis won? They are losing to teams like Le Jardin and you guys are saying they should play D1 because they have athletic students (most who have never played soccer a day in their life). Saint Louis has a relatively small enrollment. Out of the entire student body, how many students do you think actually play soccer? How many intermediate and JV soccer titles has the school won? I am not one of those guys who constantly complains about Iolani constantly winning D2 and D1 football titles. They have certain types of athletes and Saint Louis has its own. My only gripe is that I keep reading the same complaints about why isn't Saint Louis playing D1 soccer and volleyball from guys who don't complain about Farrington and Kahuku playing D2. If Saint Louis starts winning championships I will be the first to say they should move up to D1. Until then, I don't blame any school for choosing a classification that better suits their athletes. This is why Wainae, Kahuku and Farrington can field D2 teams.

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Re: HS Hoops 2021-2022

Post by gopunahou »

In the early 2010s, many criticized Iolani’s presence in D2 for football. Hell, many Iolani backers cried about the criticism that was coming their way—even starting a thread here urging people to “leave them alone.” Their own school newspaper did an article about the criticism they were receiving. Talk about thin skin.
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Re: HS Hoops 2021-2022

Post by HS Football Fanatic »

bow89 wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:22 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 5:03 pm
locomoko wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:36 pm
Sorry ... gotta correct a few misstatements here:
-- The rule I'm advocating is for all schools (not just St.L) to play all sports in the division of their football team and not lower.
-- Iolani does play D1 football.
-- St.L's enrollment may be "probably under 500 students," but they're all male. So if you want to compare that to a co-ed school, divide the other school by 2. MPI has about 800 students in high school, so that's about 400 boys. MPI plays D1 soccer and volleyball.
@locomoko:

You make a very good point: Since St Louis is a boys-only school, their enrollment should be multiplied by a factor of two. I.e., St Louis' effective enrollment should be considered "probably under 1,000 students".

Another good point you make is about Mid-Pac Institute. Their enrollment is so small that they've never had their own football team until joining the Hummers--which eventually became Pac-Five--in '73. Yet Mid-Pac has been manning-up, playing D1 soccer and volleyball and, I should add, D1 basketball and baseball. Hats off to Mid-Pac Institute.
You are just assuming that because you can field a 90 man football squad that you should force students to play a sport they don't want to play. We all know that D1 football is actually more like D2 so the Iolani excuse is not comparable. Using Mid Pac actually proves my point. If Mid Pac can field D1 teams in baseball, basketball, soccer and volleyball, they should be forced to field an Open Division football team, or at the very least, a D1 football team. According to your logic, they should not have been allowed to be a part of Pac 5. All their boys should be forced to go out for football and play multiple sports.
@bow89:
1. No one at any school "forces" football players to play soccer. Nonetheless, statistically, most guys understand that if a school is in Open for football, that school should be able to field a soccer team that can handle D1. It's based on a solid assumption that a school that can field a 90-player Open football team, should also be able to find enough players to field a D1 soccer team. The soccer players don't have to come from the football team.
2. How can you expect Mid-Pac to field an Open football team? That school has never had its own football team at any level. As I said, their boys could start playing interscholastic football only when the Hummers were created in '73.

No school forces anyone to play any sport. As for classification regarding those sports, it's kind of based on statistical expectations.

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Re: HS Hoops 2021-2022

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bow89 wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 12:06 am The year Saint Louis went to the D2 championship was an unusual situation where they had several football players who also grew up playing soccer, and Skyler Goo. This is not usually the case. You are saying that just because Saint Louis has some physical kids they should play D1 soccer. Shouldn't the same be said about Kahuku? If you are big but have never played soccer, you cannot compete with kids who play soccer year round. How many D2 state Championships has Saint Louis won? They are losing to teams like Le Jardin and you guys are saying they should play D1 because they have athletic students (most who have never played soccer a day in their life). Saint Louis has a relatively small enrollment. Out of the entire student body, how many students do you think actually play soccer? How many intermediate and JV soccer titles has the school won? I am not one of those guys who constantly complains about Iolani constantly winning D2 and D1 football titles. They have certain types of athletes and Saint Louis has its own. My only gripe is that I keep reading the same complaints about why isn't Saint Louis playing D1 soccer and volleyball from guys who don't complain about Farrington and Kahuku playing D2. If Saint Louis starts winning championships I will be the first to say they should move up to D1. Until then, I don't blame any school for choosing a classification that better suits their athletes. This is why Wainae, Kahuku and Farrington can field D2 teams.
@bow89:

Kahuku, Farrington, and Waianae are in D1 for soccer. In the OIA, there's no D2 for soccer.

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Re: HS Hoops 2021-2022

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gopunahou wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:37 am In the early 2010s, many criticized Iolani’s presence in D2 for football. Hell, many Iolani backers cried about the criticism that was coming their way—even starting a thread here urging people to “leave them alone.” Their own school newspaper did an article about the criticism they were receiving. Talk about thin skin.
@gopunahou:

Yeah, well, now Iolani is in D1, so we can't get on their case anymore. I wish they hadn't won the state title. I still think Lahainaluna choked. Not only did Lahainaluna alumni have to pay the price; so did all other guys who aren't Iolani alumni.

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Re: HS Hoops 2021-2022

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HS Football Fanatic wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:34 am
bow89 wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 12:06 am The year Saint Louis went to the D2 championship was an unusual situation where they had several football players who also grew up playing soccer, and Skyler Goo. This is not usually the case. You are saying that just because Saint Louis has some physical kids they should play D1 soccer. Shouldn't the same be said about Kahuku? If you are big but have never played soccer, you cannot compete with kids who play soccer year round. How many D2 state Championships has Saint Louis won? They are losing to teams like Le Jardin and you guys are saying they should play D1 because they have athletic students (most who have never played soccer a day in their life). Saint Louis has a relatively small enrollment. Out of the entire student body, how many students do you think actually play soccer? How many intermediate and JV soccer titles has the school won? I am not one of those guys who constantly complains about Iolani constantly winning D2 and D1 football titles. They have certain types of athletes and Saint Louis has its own. My only gripe is that I keep reading the same complaints about why isn't Saint Louis playing D1 soccer and volleyball from guys who don't complain about Farrington and Kahuku playing D2. If Saint Louis starts winning championships I will be the first to say they should move up to D1. Until then, I don't blame any school for choosing a classification that better suits their athletes. This is why Wainae, Kahuku and Farrington can field D2 teams.
@bow89:

Kahuku, Farrington, and Waianae are in D1 for soccer. In the OIA, there's no D2 for soccer.

Must have just changed because OIA website clearly lists D2 soccer champions up to 2020 (Kahuku 2012). In fact, Saint Louis defeated Farrington when they made it to the D2 playoffs.

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Re: HS Hoops 2021-2022

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@bow89:

Yes, I think it must have changed. I've gone to Scoringlive several times this week, and there's no listing for D2 OIA; its just OIA East and OIA West. So, presumably, all OIA East schools play each other, and all OIA West schools play each other. Then the site jumps to the outer-island leagues; those leagues have D2.

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Re: HS Hoops 2021-2022

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HS Football Fanatic wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:07 am
gopunahou wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:37 am In the early 2010s, many criticized Iolani’s presence in D2 for football. Hell, many Iolani backers cried about the criticism that was coming their way—even starting a thread here urging people to “leave them alone.” Their own school newspaper did an article about the criticism they were receiving. Talk about thin skin.
@gopunahou:

Yeah, well, now Iolani is in D1, so we can't get on their case anymore. I wish they hadn't won the state title. I still think Lahainaluna choked. Not only did Lahainaluna alumni have to pay the price; so did all other guys who aren't Iolani alumni.
The one thing that could compel people to complain about Iolani's presence in D1 is if they started fielding the kind of teams they did in the 90s. Iolani was not a small team back then.
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Re: HS Hoops 2021-2022

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@gopunahou:

Iolani had some pretty big O-lines back in the early-'80s, too. It's funny how a school can change so much, in terms of the physical characteristics of the teams they field. I'll tell you what: I'd bet there are some Open-division schools that would love to get their hands on Iolani, after what the Raiders did to Lahainaluna. I'm sure some of those Open schools would love to get Iolani on the gridiron; make them pay.

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Re: HS Hoops 2021-2022

Post by HS Football Fanatic »

I'm starting to think Kamehameha's boys' basketball team sucks. They lost to Mid-Pac today, for crying out loud. I didn't see that coming; what a boner. Maybe I should just stop liking Kamehameha Schools, already. At some point, you just get disgusted.

Meanwhile, Waianae alumni have something to be pissed about: Waianae's girls' soccer team got their butts kicked by rival Nanakuli, 6-0. I mean, Nanakuli doesn't beat Waianae very often, in any sport, let alone kick their butts.

If you're a Kamehameha fan or a Waianae fan, how do you deal with what went down today? Doo-doo happens.

ChadFukuoka, I see you're online. Aiea's girls' soccer team won today; they beat Waialua, 4-1. Good job, Na Alii.

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