2018-2019 Boy's Basketball Thread

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Naz
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Re: 2018-2019 Boy's Basketball Thread

#16 Post by Naz » Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:20 pm

I always like to look at these losses under a microscope. I notice Punahou did not play with Makaula. Another thing that jumped out was the free throw disparity. Three players on Damien shot 11 or more free throw attempts while the most any Punahou player shot was 6. I would like to have seen how this game was called by the officials.

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Re: 2018-2019 Boy's Basketball Thread

#17 Post by HS Football Fanatic » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:42 pm

Naz wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:20 pm
I always like to look at these losses under a microscope. I notice Punahou did not play with Makaula. Another thing that jumped out was the free throw disparity. Three players on Damien shot 11 or more free throw attempts while the most any Punahou player shot was 6. I would like to have seen how this game was called by the officials.
@Naz: Well, that's still all part of the game, right? Did Damien have any starters out? If Damien had more shots at the free-throw line, that says something about Punahou's foul discipline. It's all part of the game. For a D2 school, Damien is looking pretty scary.

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Re: 2018-2019 Boy's Basketball Thread

#18 Post by Naz » Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:47 pm

HS Football Fanatic wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:42 pm

@Naz: Well, that's still all part of the game, right? Did Damien have any starters out? If Damien had more shots at the free-throw line, that says something about Punahou's foul discipline. It's all part of the game. For a D2 school, Damien is looking pretty scary.
Damien was not missing any key players they're top 3 scorers played. There was something like a 15 to 45 foul disparity in favor of Damien. That is rather ridiculous if you ask me. I refuse to believe the defending state champs were defensively that incoherent so as to send Damien to the line for that many attempts. Damien and Saint Francis should have already been in Division 1. If this isn't proof enough I don't know what is.

I say we should just end the boy's basketball season already. Damien wins. I realize pre-season is pre-season but when you take down the defending D1 & D2 champs as well as the OIA champions only six games in, what more is there to prove? Let's just call it a season. I say let Damien replace any of the OIA schools in the 'Iolani Classic (or SF). Damien has a good chance to be undefeated into the regular season but should they lose even one game in ILH D2, they should drop out of the top 10 automatically. For now, they are unanimous #1.

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Re: 2018-2019 Boy's Basketball Thread

#19 Post by HS Football Fanatic » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:13 pm

Naz wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:47 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:42 pm

@Naz: Well, that's still all part of the game, right? Did Damien have any starters out? If Damien had more shots at the free-throw line, that says something about Punahou's foul discipline. It's all part of the game. For a D2 school, Damien is looking pretty scary.
Damien was not missing any key players they're top 3 scorers played. There was something like a 15 to 45 foul disparity in favor of Damien. That is rather ridiculous if you ask me. I refuse to believe the defending state champs were defensively that incoherent so as to send Damien to the line for that many attempts. Damien and Saint Francis should have already been in Division 1. If this isn't proof enough I don't know what is.

I say we should just end the boy's basketball season already. Damien wins. I realize pre-season is pre-season but when you take down the defending D1 & D2 champs as well as the OIA champions only six games in, what more is there to prove? Let's just call it a season. I say let Damien replace any of the OIA schools in the 'Iolani Classic (or SF). Damien has a good chance to be undefeated into the regular season but should they lose even one game in ILH D2, they should drop out of the top 10 automatically. For now, they are unanimous #1.
@Naz: It's hard to believe that we're saying D2 Damien is the best basketball team in the state, division notwithstanding. But, here we are. I don't think anyone saw that coming; I didn't.

Regarding the Punahou game, well, it was what it was. Unless all the refs were Damien alumni, Punahou simply committed too many fouls. But then, credit Damien for converting on enough of them. After all, a school can be lousy at the charity stripe. Also, if the refs were consistently/persistently calling certain types of fouls, why didn't Punahou's coaches respond accordingly? Why didn't they talk to the players and say, "Hey, the refs are calling (this or that) foul a lot", and then make adjustments? Again, all of these things are part of the game.

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Re: 2018-2019 Boy's Basketball Thread

#20 Post by Naz » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:39 pm

HS Football Fanatic wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:13 pm

@Naz: It's hard to believe that we're saying D2 Damien is the best basketball team in the state, division notwithstanding. But, here we are. I don't think anyone saw that coming; I didn't.

Regarding the Punahou game, well, it was what it was. Unless all the refs were Damien alumni, Punahou simply committed too many fouls. But then, credit Damien for converting on enough of them. After all, a school can be lousy at the charity stripe. Also, if the refs were consistently/persistently calling certain types of fouls, why didn't Punahou's coaches respond accordingly and make adjustments? Why didn't they talk to the players and say, "Hey, the refs are calling (this or that) foul a lot"? Again, all of these things are part of the game.
Without a doubt, Damien has earned the #1 spot for the start of the pre-season. They have the Kailua Surfrider classic ahead in their schedule and they have to play against Kailua and could potentially rematch Saint Francis again. If they get past that tourney unscathed, they should retain the #1 spot. However, once regular season starts, I feel like their weak schedule in D2 should hurt their rankings and put them behind teams like Maryknoll, Punahou, Kamehameha, 'Iolani, etc. who have to grind out games on a weekly basis in ILH D1. The team that finishes #1 by the end of the post-season should have to play in the toughest division in the state.

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Re: 2018-2019 Boy's Basketball Thread

#21 Post by HS Football Fanatic » Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:53 pm

Naz wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:39 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:13 pm

@Naz: It's hard to believe that we're saying D2 Damien is the best basketball team in the state, division notwithstanding. But, here we are. I don't think anyone saw that coming; I didn't.

Regarding the Punahou game, well, it was what it was. Unless all the refs were Damien alumni, Punahou simply committed too many fouls. But then, credit Damien for converting on enough of them. After all, a school can be lousy at the charity stripe. Also, if the refs were consistently/persistently calling certain types of fouls, why didn't Punahou's coaches respond accordingly and make adjustments? Why didn't they talk to the players and say, "Hey, the refs are calling (this or that) foul a lot"? Again, all of these things are part of the game.
Without a doubt, Damien has earned the #1 spot for the start of the pre-season. They have the Kailua Surfrider classic ahead in their schedule and they have to play against Kailua and could potentially rematch Saint Francis again. If they get past that tourney unscathed, they should retain the #1 spot. However, once regular season starts, I feel like their weak schedule in D2 should hurt their rankings and put them behind teams like Maryknoll, Punahou, Kamehameha, 'Iolani, etc. who have to grind out games on a weekly basis in ILH D1. The team that finishes #1 by the end of the post-season should have to play in the toughest division in the state.
@Naz: Well, we heard guys say last year that if a school is D2, then over the season their ranking should go down. I never understood that. I mean, if a team is good, it's good. But, we could have a crazy outcome in which the ILH D2 champ (most likely Damien), is better than the ILH D1 champ (most likely Punahou). I think gopunahou is right when he said classification in basketball should be scrapped. Classification makes sense for football, but not basketball, for a number of reasons. Right now, D2 Damien School can hang with the biggest and best D1 schools in the state.

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Re: 2018-2019 Boy's Basketball Thread

#22 Post by Naz » Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:45 pm

HS Football Fanatic wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:53 pm

@Naz: Well, we heard guys say last year that if a school is D2, then over the season their ranking should go down. I never understood that. I mean, if a team is good, it's good. But, we could have a crazy outcome in which the ILH D2 champ (most likely Damien), is better than the ILH D1 champ (most likely Punahou). I think gopunahou is right when he said classification in basketball should be scrapped. Classification makes sense for football, but not basketball, for a number of reasons. Right now, D2 Damien School can hang with the biggest and best D1 schools in the state.
Playing in a weak conference during the regular season has always hurt teams in the college rankings and for good reason. I don't see how, once the regular season begins, a team like say Maryknoll who has to go up two times against 'Iolani, Punahou, Kamehameha, Mid-Pac, SF, etc. should be behind a team playing Le Jardin, UH Lab, Hanalani, etc. By allowing "Division 2" teams (who should be in D1) to play and beat D1 teams during the pre-season and then ride out the rest of their season playing weaker competition, we as a state are only encouraging teams to stay down at D2. What's the incentive to play at their true competition level if coaches and players who classify D2 know that they can beat D1 teams in the pre-season, be ranked above OIA and ILH D1 teams because of that for the majority of the season, and then get awarded things like Fab 15 selections, Gatorade Awards, etc. from the media? In that case, I would encourage all kids to move down to D2/D3 and score 30 ppg. Nobody will care that you beat Hawaiian Mission Academy, they'll just salivate over how many points you had and say you're one of the top players, if not THE top player, in the state.

I get worked up over this because I am an ardent proponent of ONE division. I am starting to see a pattern of D2 teams beating D1 teams in pre-season and then pounding their chest as if they're the best team in the state. Ok, you beat them once. You got bragging rights. But beat them a second time... go to their home court and beat them... that is what the ILH grind is every season. I could never imagine giving the highest Football awards to a player in D1 or D2 over an Open division player... but in prep basketball in this state, that is apparently what we do.

D1 coaches need to stop scheduling games where they play D2 teams. It will only hurt THEIR rankings. You have nothing to gain in this state by playing a D2 school. If you win, you were supposed to. If the game is close, the spotlight will be on how close the game was. If you lose, it will take a long time for you to convince the media you were better than the D2 team that "upset" you.

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Re: 2018-2019 Boy's Basketball Thread

#23 Post by HS Football Fanatic » Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:27 am

@Naz: I agree with you that there shouldn't be classification in basketball. St Francis last year, and Damien this year, provide convincing evidence. Even so, Damien couldn't now go up to D1 even if it wanted to, right? Nonetheless, they still might very well be the best team in the state. Can we take that away from them? Also, I'm not a proponent of "home-court advantage." A basketball court is a basketball court, no matter which school's gym it's in. Mind over matter.

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Re: 2018-2019 Boy's Basketball Thread

#24 Post by Naz » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:49 pm

HS Football Fanatic wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:27 am
@Naz: I agree with you that there shouldn't be classification in basketball. St Francis last year, and Damien this year, provide convincing evidence. Even so, Damien couldn't now go up to D1 even if it wanted to, right? Nonetheless, they still might very well be the best team in the state. Can we take that away from them? Also, I'm not a proponent of "home-court advantage." A basketball court is a basketball court, no matter which school's gym it's in. Mind over matter.
We'll agree to disagree on that. I feel going into a raucous gym does have an effect on teams. In basketball, schools like Maryknoll and Punahou have huge homecourt turnouts. I know Punahou even brings an alumni band. To me, that can be an intimidating atmosphere for teenagers to not lose their focus at.

In other news, the season's first top 10 came out: 1) Damien 2) Punahou 3) Maryknoll 4) Iolani 5) Saint Francis 6) Kahuku 7) Kalaheo 8. Kamehameha 9) Mid-Pac 10) Moanalua.

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Re: 2018-2019 Boy's Basketball Thread

#25 Post by HS Football Fanatic » Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:21 am

Naz wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:49 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:27 am
@Naz: I agree with you that there shouldn't be classification in basketball. St Francis last year, and Damien this year, provide convincing evidence. Even so, Damien couldn't now go up to D1 even if it wanted to, right? Nonetheless, they still might very well be the best team in the state. Can we take that away from them? Also, I'm not a proponent of "home-court advantage." A basketball court is a basketball court, no matter which school's gym it's in. Mind over matter.
We'll agree to disagree on that. I feel going into a raucous gym does have an effect on teams. In basketball, schools like Maryknoll and Punahou have huge homecourt turnouts. I know Punahou even brings an alumni band. To me, that can be an intimidating atmosphere for teenagers to not lose their focus at.

In other news, the season's first top 10 came out: 1) Damien 2) Punahou 3) Maryknoll 4) Iolani 5) Saint Francis 6) Kahuku 7) Kalaheo 8. Kamehameha 9) Mid-Pac 10) Moanalua.
@Naz: Well, whether it's a raucous gym or a raucous stadium or whatever, players can't allow themselves to be rattled. The coach needs to tell his players, "Hey, to heck with all of that. Stay focused, play your game." Yes, Punahou's alumni band is notorious for showing-up at their alma mater's games. They even played at a girls' volleyball game against Kamehameha; I stumbled onto the game on OC16 while I was channel-surfing. Punahou still lost. I recall going to a boys' basketball game back in '77, and Iolani's student band showed-up. Iolani was playing Kamehameha. Iolani still lost. So, a coach needs to tell his players not to let the other school's fans/alumni/band/whatever mess with their minds. Mind over matter. It's all just another part of mental preparation for a game. If players are going to allow themselves to be psyched-out by the other school's supporters, the team might as well just not play.

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Re: 2018-2019 Boy's Basketball Thread

#26 Post by Naz » Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:55 pm

HS Football Fanatic wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:21 am

@Naz: Well, whether it's a raucous gym or a raucous stadium or whatever, players can't allow themselves to be rattled. The coach needs to tell his players, "Hey, to heck with all of that. Stay focused, play your game." Yes, Punahou's alumni band is notorious for showing-up at their alma mater's games. They even played at a girls' volleyball game against Kamehameha; I stumbled onto the game on OC16 while I was channel-surfing. Punahou still lost. I recall going to a boys' basketball game back in '77, and Iolani's student band showed-up. Iolani was playing Kamehameha. Iolani still lost. So, a coach needs to tell his players not to let the other school's fans/alumni/band/whatever mess with their minds. Mind over matter. It's all just another part of mental preparation for a game. If players are going to allow themselves to be psyched-out by the other school's supporters, the team might as well just not play.
I also remember in the 2017 boy's state title game Punahou brought their band and it backfired because Kahuku fans were about 60-70% of the fans in attendance and they ended up using the Punahou bands songs to lead all the Kahuku cheers you would've thought they were Kahuku's band :lol: It was awesome and we know who won that game.
But back to your point about not being psyched out... my main point is that what you're saying in theory is correct and in a perfect world, 14/15/16/17 year olds would listen to that advice and block all that out. But it doesn't always happen. This type of atmosphere would affect a lot of teenagers who don't experience intense games like that on a regular basis.

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Re: 2018-2019 Boy's Basketball Thread

#27 Post by HS Football Fanatic » Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:39 pm

Naz wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:55 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:21 am

@Naz: Well, whether it's a raucous gym or a raucous stadium or whatever, players can't allow themselves to be rattled. The coach needs to tell his players, "Hey, to heck with all of that. Stay focused, play your game." Yes, Punahou's alumni band is notorious for showing-up at their alma mater's games. They even played at a girls' volleyball game against Kamehameha; I stumbled onto the game on OC16 while I was channel-surfing. Punahou still lost. I recall going to a boys' basketball game back in '77, and Iolani's student band showed-up. Iolani was playing Kamehameha. Iolani still lost. So, a coach needs to tell his players not to let the other school's fans/alumni/band/whatever mess with their minds. Mind over matter. It's all just another part of mental preparation for a game. If players are going to allow themselves to be psyched-out by the other school's supporters, the team might as well just not play.
I also remember in the 2017 boy's state title game Punahou brought their band and it backfired because Kahuku fans were about 60-70% of the fans in attendance and they ended up using the Punahou bands songs to lead all the Kahuku cheers you would've thought they were Kahuku's band :lol: It was awesome and we know who won that game.
But back to your point about not being psyched out... my main point is that what you're saying in theory is correct and in a perfect world, 14/15/16/17 year olds would listen to that advice and block all that out. But it doesn't always happen. This type of atmosphere would affect a lot of teenagers who don't experience intense games like that on a regular basis.
@Naz: True, we're talking about teenage kids here, but I think they have to learn to deal with intimidating environments; it has to start somewhere. I'm thinking about Romeo's famous words when he learned about Juliet's (apparent) death: "Then I defy you, stars!" If a team is playing a game in a "hostile" gym, where the home school's fans are numerous and loud, and/or their band is there, someone has to tell the players: "Defy them!" I think the coach should tell them something like that. I mean, what other options are there? As I see it, there are only two options: Either your players will wilt and collapse in the face of all that "hostility," or, the players--young as they are--will make up their minds to play their own game and defy the other school's hostile environment. The coach needs to tell his players, "Which will it be?" In the end, your players have to believe, or else why waste your time? Might as well walk over to the other school's coach, and hand him the game. Go big, or go home.

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Re: 2018-2019 Boy's Basketball Thread

#28 Post by gopunahou » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:53 pm

I think our biggest challengers are Iolani and Kalaheo, both of whom played each other today. Don't know if I can handle a world where Iolani BB and St. Louis FB are constantly winning state championships at the same time. Just kidding.
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Re: 2018-2019 Boy's Basketball Thread

#29 Post by HS Football Fanatic » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:26 am

gopunahou wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:53 pm
I think our biggest challengers are Iolani and Kalaheo, both of whom played each other today. Don't know if I can handle a world where Iolani BB and St. Louis FB are constantly winning state championships at the same time. Just kidding.
@gopunahou: Well, you have a right to feel the way you do, as does anyone. I don't care for St Louis School, but you know, Punahou School is almost always better than them in basketball. You already know that, unfortunately, I care for your alma mater even less. Nonetheless, it seems likely that they (Punahou) will win the ILH and state D1 basketball championships. I don't care for Iolani School either, yet it's likely their girls' team will win the ILH and state D1 basketball championships. As for Kalaheo High, I'm totally OK with them. There's nothing I resent about that school.

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Re: 2018-2019 Boy's Basketball Thread

#30 Post by Naz » Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:17 pm

gopunahou wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:53 pm
I think our biggest challengers are Iolani and Kalaheo, both of whom played each other today. Don't know if I can handle a world where Iolani BB and St. Louis FB are constantly winning state championships at the same time. Just kidding.
I feel this will be another year of ILH domination. I thought Moanalua would be a threat but they don't seem like they have what it takes to overpower ILH talent. I'd say the same for Kalaheo. I don't feel the OIA will produce any team that will be a threat to the state championship being taken from the ILH. In terms of who is a threat to Punahou, I have to think that Maryknoll is on that list possibly before 'Iolani and definitely Kalaheo. Hard to tell because Maryknoll has not been challenged in pre-season yet. Heck, Kapolei hasn't even convinced me so far that they are the favorites in the West region. Regardless, it kind of puts a gloom on the prep hoops scene that the defending D1 & D2 state champs and the defending OIA champ let the D2 runner up beat them. In some cases by double digits. Just hand Damien the D2 trophy now already. The only thing I really have on my radar from now until season play is the 'Iolani Classic.

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