2017-18 Basketball Thread

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

#196 Post by HS Football Fanatic » Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:37 pm

Neighbor wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:15 pm
St Francis going up to D1. Now everybody happy
@Neighbor: Welllp. Looks like the party might be over for St Francis.

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

#197 Post by gopunahou » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:37 pm

With St. Francis going to D1, will the ILH get 3 berths in the state tourney (or a play-in game against the OIA's #6 team)?

IMO, the HHSAA should let the ILH's 3rd-best team battle the OIA's 6th-best team for the final spot (like they did in the '80s).
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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

#198 Post by Neighbor » Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:11 pm

gopunahou wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:37 pm
With St. Francis going to D1, will the ILH get 3 berths in the state tourney (or a play-in game against the OIA's #6 team)?

IMO, the HHSAA should let the ILH's 3rd-best team battle the OIA's 6th-best team for the final spot (like they did in the '80s).
They should. Like for baseball this year, ILH D1 is getting three teams but they're having the OIA 6th place team and BIIF second place team play-in for the final spot.

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

#199 Post by Naz » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:07 am

According to a Hawai'i Prep World article, it seems as if the decision for St. Francis' to move up to D1 was made after their player receiving the gatorade player of the year award. To me, this move to D1 has come at least 2 seasons to late. The majority of talent in the ILH is leaving due to graduation. Even then the head coach said this might be a one season move and nothing else. St. Francis' decision to go now doesn't carry much weight with me as the ILH next season will be fairly young with a bulk of seniors leaving. I won't be surprise if St. Francis is picked to be one of the favorites - if not THE favorite - in the ILH to start pre-season. Btw, there was no way the Gatorade Player of the Year should not have gone to a DIVISION ONE player. No way. I would advise any Division one kid who wants more recognition to go to a division 2 school and shoot, shoot, shoot. The local sports media can't tell the difference between competition levels in this state apparently.

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

#200 Post by HS Football Fanatic » Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:29 pm

Naz wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:07 am
According to a Hawai'i Prep World article, it seems as if the decision for St. Francis' to move up to D1 was made after their player receiving the gatorade player of the year award. To me, this move to D1 has come at least 2 seasons to late. The majority of talent in the ILH is leaving due to graduation. Even then the head coach said this might be a one season move and nothing else. St. Francis' decision to go now doesn't carry much weight with me as the ILH next season will be fairly young with a bulk of seniors leaving. I won't be surprise if St. Francis is picked to be one of the favorites - if not THE favorite - in the ILH to start pre-season. Btw, there was no way the Gatorade Player of the Year should not have gone to a DIVISION ONE player. No way. I would advise any Division one kid who wants more recognition to go to a division 2 school and shoot, shoot, shoot. The local sports media can't tell the difference between competition levels in this state apparently.
@Naz: St Francis is going to become the Iolani School of basketball if this keeps up. By that I mean, St Francis risks running the reputation of hiding behind D2, when it should be in D1. Personally, I don't know what to feel about St Francis School. It's been coed for what, 15 years? That's a fairly long time, I guess, but I remember the school as a girls-only school.

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

#201 Post by Naz » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:28 am

The Star-Advertiser All-Star selections came out. Here are a few things that jumped out to me regarding the various selections amongst media/coaches in no particular order:

1. This year, the Gatorade Player of the Year came out before the Honolulu Advertiser Awards. Usually itʻs reversed. They gave the Gatorade to a Division 2 player for the first time ever and the Advertiser POY went to Tolu Smith. Unless Smith didnʻt have a decent academic standing, I am flabbergasted that Smith didnʻt take both awards. I could even live with Chong winning the Gatorade award. In the Advertiser Fab 15, the D2 player was ranked ahead of Chong who was named the D1 ILH POY & the Most Outstanding Player of the D1 state tournament. Media and coaches just set the precedence from here on out that your ppg average is the bottom line regardless of your competitionʻs level.

2. The ILH regular season ppg leader, Kamren Victorino-Kato, was not even listed as an honorable mention player in either the ScoringLive or ILH coaches poll. For real?! That is absurd. What were they thinking not even giving him honorable mention?! And yet, the Advertiser recognized him as #7 in their Fab 15.

3. Going to the OIA West, I felt Zoar Nedd shouldʻve been the unanimous POY selection. Yet, in the ScoringLive awards for that league, it went to Liam Fitzgerald. Fitzgerald wasnʻt even in the Fab 15.

4. Lastly, Coach of the Year has been a sham the last few seasons. How the hell did it go to the McKinley coach? What did McKinely do over teams like Kalaheo, Maryknoll, Kahuku, or Punahou?

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

#202 Post by HS Football Fanatic » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:13 pm

Naz wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:28 am
The Star-Advertiser All-Star selections came out. Here are a few things that jumped out to me regarding the various selections amongst media/coaches in no particular order:

1. This year, the Gatorade Player of the Year came out before the Honolulu Advertiser Awards. Usually itʻs reversed. They gave the Gatorade to a Division 2 player for the first time ever and the Advertiser POY went to Tolu Smith. Unless Smith didnʻt have a decent academic standing, I am flabbergasted that Smith didnʻt take both awards. I could even live with Chong winning the Gatorade award. In the Advertiser Fab 15, the D2 player was ranked ahead of Chong who was named the D1 ILH POY & the Most Outstanding Player of the D1 state tournament. Media and coaches just set the precedence from here on out that your ppg average is the bottom line regardless of your competitionʻs level.

2. The ILH regular season ppg leader, Kamren Victorino-Kato, was not even listed as an honorable mention player in either the ScoringLive or ILH coaches poll. For real?! That is absurd. What were they thinking not even giving him honorable mention?! And yet, the Advertiser recognized him as #7 in their Fab 15.

3. Going to the OIA West, I felt Zoar Nedd shouldʻve been the unanimous POY selection. Yet, in the ScoringLive awards for that league, it went to Liam Fitzgerald. Fitzgerald wasnʻt even in the Fab 15.

4. Lastly, Coach of the Year has been a sham the last few seasons. How the hell did it go to the McKinley coach? What did McKinely do over teams like Kalaheo, Maryknoll, Kahuku, or Punahou?
@Naz: Great post. I wished to comment only on #s 2 and 4. Remember that stretch of three games during regular season, when Victorino-Kato didn't play? Do we know why, yet? Now, if he were injured, that's one thing. But if he missed those three games for any other reason, well, perhaps that's why he wasn't listed. I wonder how many of those three games Kamehameha might have won, if he were playing. Regarding McKinley coach Omori, well, I'm not completely surprised. If I'm not mistaken, McKinley beat Kalaheo at least once (even if it might have been during preseason; can't remember). Also, they came within two or three points of beating both Maryknoll and Kahuku, if I'm not mistaken, and lost to Punahou in States by a smaller margin than most guys would have thought, I believe. McKinley lacked both height and experience. My guess is that Omori was picked because he did more with the players he had than any other coach.

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

#203 Post by Naz » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:24 pm

HS Football Fanatic wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:13 pm

@Naz: Great post. I wished to comment only on #s 2 and 4. Remember that stretch of three games during regular season, when Victorino-Kato didn't play? Do we know why, yet? Now, if he were injured, that's one thing. But if he missed those three games for any other reason, well, perhaps that's why he wasn't listed. I wonder how many of those three games Kamehameha might have won, if he were playing. Regarding McKinley coach Omori, well, I'm not completely surprised. If I'm not mistaken, McKinley beat Kalaheo at least once (even if it might have been during preseason; can't remember). Also, they came within two or three points of beating both Maryknoll and Kahuku, if I'm not mistaken, and lost to Punahou in States by a smaller margin than most guys would have thought, I believe. McKinley lacked both height and experience. My guess is that Omori was picked because he did more with the players he had than any other coach.
I do recall the stretch of games where Victorino-Kato was left out. Iʻm guessing it was academics. Regardless, the kid led the league in scoring and couldnʻt even get an honorable mention nod. I have to believe that in the history of any league, ILH and OIA, that whoever led the league in scoring that year was either first team, second team, or honorable mention. The cold shoulder given to Victorino-Kato may be a first. Obviously he was good enough he made the damn FAB 15 poll and was a participant in the Senior Classic game. Can you think of a kid named to the Fab 15 that didnʻt get any recognition in his individual league awards like this? I cannot.

As far as the McKinley coach, I donʻt understand it. Last season, Omori won the OIA East coach of the year over Brandyn Akana whose team won the OIA title and went undefeated doing it. Akana should have at least won coach of the year once in the past 3 seasons which are his only 3 seasons. His teams have not finished worse than the state semi-finals, he has an OIA title to his name, and a state championship also. Not one COY award. The McKinley coach has won 2 versions of the COY award while doing none of this. Puzzling.

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

#204 Post by HS Football Fanatic » Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:04 pm

Naz wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:24 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:13 pm

@Naz: Great post. I wished to comment only on #s 2 and 4. Remember that stretch of three games during regular season, when Victorino-Kato didn't play? Do we know why, yet? Now, if he were injured, that's one thing. But if he missed those three games for any other reason, well, perhaps that's why he wasn't listed. I wonder how many of those three games Kamehameha might have won, if he were playing. Regarding McKinley coach Omori, well, I'm not completely surprised. If I'm not mistaken, McKinley beat Kalaheo at least once (even if it might have been during preseason; can't remember). Also, they came within two or three points of beating both Maryknoll and Kahuku, if I'm not mistaken, and lost to Punahou in States by a smaller margin than most guys would have thought, I believe. McKinley lacked both height and experience. My guess is that Omori was picked because he did more with the players he had than any other coach.
I do recall the stretch of games where Victorino-Kato was left out. Iʻm guessing it was academics. Regardless, the kid led the league in scoring and couldnʻt even get an honorable mention nod. I have to believe that in the history of any league, ILH and OIA, that whoever led the league in scoring that year was either first team, second team, or honorable mention. The cold shoulder given to Victorino-Kato may be a first. Obviously he was good enough he made the damn FAB 15 poll and was a participant in the Senior Classic game. Can you think of a kid named to the Fab 15 that didnʻt get any recognition in his individual league awards like this? I cannot.

As far as the McKinley coach, I donʻt understand it. Last season, Omori won the OIA East coach of the year over Brandyn Akana whose team won the OIA title and went undefeated doing it. Akana should have at least won coach of the year once in the past 3 seasons which are his only 3 seasons. His teams have not finished worse than the state semi-finals, he has an OIA title to his name, and a state championship also. Not one COY award. The McKinley coach has won 2 versions of the COY award while doing none of this. Puzzling.
@Naz: You got me. I have no response. You've made two very good arguments.

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

#205 Post by Neighbor » Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:13 pm

It is weird that Victorino-Kato was left off ILH selections but he missed a bunch of games. Still werid. As for the Leilehua player, they had a decent regular season but couldnt even win in OIA playoffs. The east is better than west in basketball but kapolei at least made it to the semifinals. and for the coach awards, i dont think those matter as much but it happens all the time in all sports. the media gets what they call "vote fatigue" and instead of just giving it to the same people who deserve it, they try to go after the underdog story

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

#206 Post by HS Football Fanatic » Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:21 pm

Neighbor wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:13 pm
It is weird that Victorino-Kato was left off ILH selections but he missed a bunch of games. Still werid. As for the Leilehua player, they had a decent regular season but couldnt even win in OIA playoffs. The east is better than west in basketball but kapolei at least made it to the semifinals. and for the coach awards, i dont think those matter as much but it happens all the time in all sports. the media gets what they call "vote fatigue" and instead of just giving it to the same people who deserve it, they try to go after the underdog story
@Neighbor: Yeah, I think you've got something there. As far as the Omori pick is concerned, McKinley High was definitely the underdog, especially with regard to their lack of height. Yet, they played taller, more-experienced schools pretty close, and we're talking about the likes of Maryknoll (in preseason), Kalaheo, and Kahuku.

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

#207 Post by Naz » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:21 pm

This whole post-season voting has convinced me that the media and coaches who vote care mainly about stats - points per game in particular - above all else. I guess that's why we're seeing certain kids shoot 30+ times a game and don't get subbed out during blowouts. Because this state obviously rewards that kind of crap and can't understand what stat padding looks like. In addition, I feel like if you're a player with a dad on the coaching staff, you should start off with negative voting points to begin with. That's just me. Tell me what would've happened if Tolu Smith played for Damien or if Zayne Chong played on HBA? Those guys would've averaged 30+ ppg. I honestly don't give that much of a rip about the coaching award, but I think it is stupid that Akana hasn't gotten one of those awards since his first season. To me, it seems like the coaches are boycotting votes against him because he's bringing in talent.... but if that's the case, they're hypocrites because everybody is bringing in talent.

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

#208 Post by HS Football Fanatic » Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:52 pm

Naz wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:21 pm
This whole post-season voting has convinced me that the media and coaches who vote care mainly about stats - points per game in particular - above all else. I guess that's why we're seeing certain kids shoot 30+ times a game and don't get subbed out during blowouts. Because this state obviously rewards that kind of crap and can't understand what stat padding looks like. In addition, I feel like if you're a player with a dad on the coaching staff, you should start off with negative voting points to begin with. That's just me. Tell me what would've happened if Tolu Smith played for Damien or if Zayne Chong played on HBA? Those guys would've averaged 30+ ppg. I honestly don't give that much of a rip about the coaching award, but I think it is stupid that Akana hasn't gotten one of those awards since his first season. To me, it seems like the coaches are boycotting votes against him because he's bringing in talent.... but if that's the case, they're hypocrites because everybody is bringing in talent.
@Naz: Yeah. It's too bad that politics has found its way even into the high-school level. It incentivizes coaches to make decisions that they probably wouldn't make otherwise, like padding player stats, as you mentioned.

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

#209 Post by Naz » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:46 pm

In any case, it was really fun talking prep basketball with all you guys throughout the season. Thoroughly enjoyed everybody's posts!

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

#210 Post by HS Football Fanatic » Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:26 pm

Naz wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:46 pm
In any case, it was really fun talking prep basketball with all you guys throughout the season. Thoroughly enjoyed everybody's posts!
@Naz: Are you into any other sports? A guy started a thread about judo, for example. What about baseball or softball?

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