2017-18 Basketball Thread

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gopunahou
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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

#16 Post by gopunahou » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:17 pm

HS Football Fanatic wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:44 pm
Naz wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:26 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:26 pm

@Naz: Excellent points. I have to keep reminding myself that basketball is one sport in which Hawaii seems to be a step behind the mainland, in terms of player material. As I had mentioned in a previous post, I've seen Hawaii high schools kick butt locally with players who aren't necessarily super-long, but are fast, play good D, and are good perimeter shooters. But when you match them against those strong, long mainland schools--such as in the Iolani Classic--they often get their butts kicked. I hope Punahou and Kamehameha are in the Iolani Classic, because those strong, long mainland schools are something of a measuring-stick nationally. I'm a little disappointed to hear about Kalaugher; you'd think he'd be doing a little better than 2-ppg at a JC. Perhaps he should have gone to UH; as a UH alumnus, I prefer that he did.
Kamehameha, 'Iolani, and Maryknoll are the only ILH teams in the 'Iolani Classic. I saw a few games last tournament and watched Kailua and Kahuku beat their 1st round out-of-state opponents and then saw Kahuku go onto beat 2 more out-of-state teams to finish 3rd. That was impressive. Punahou, on the other hand, is not in this year but they have their own tournament with out-of-state teams but they don't bring in nearly the kind of big name teams like the 'Iolani Classic does. Also, you were correct about Maryknoll playing McKinley a 2nd time and only winning by 5. I really don't know how that happened after they beat them by 18.
@Naz: But most of the ILH D1 schools have two vars teams; I guess you could call them the "A" and "AA." I don't know exactly how the ILH refers to them. Based on the score differences, again, I'm pretty sure it's Maryknoll's "AA" (or lower) vars team that played McKinley last night. That would explain why the score was so much closer. Also, again: Why would Maryknoll's A (or higher) vars team play McKinley again, when they played just two weeks ago or so?
There’ve been times where we’ve faced the same team more than once in the preseason.
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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

#17 Post by HS Football Fanatic » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:30 pm

Naz wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:57 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:26 pm

@Naz: But most of the ILH D1 schools have two vars teams; I guess you could call them the "A" and "AA." I don't know exactly how the ILH refers to them. Based on the score differences, again, I'm pretty sure it's Maryknoll's "AA" (or lower) vars team that played McKinley last night. That would explain why the score was so much closer. Also, again: Why would Maryknoll's A (or higher) vars team play McKinley again, when they played just two weeks ago or so?
It was, in fact, Maryknoll's Varsity D1 team that played McKinley a second time. ScoringLive's boxscore confirmed this. Check the link: https://scoringlive.com/boysbasketball/ ... hp?team=MS
@Naz: That is a shock. How is it that McKinley gained 15 points on Maryknoll in two weeks or less? I think perhaps we can remove Maryknoll from consideration as a "contender."

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

#18 Post by HS Football Fanatic » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:34 pm

gopunahou wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:17 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:44 pm
Naz wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:26 pm


Kamehameha, 'Iolani, and Maryknoll are the only ILH teams in the 'Iolani Classic. I saw a few games last tournament and watched Kailua and Kahuku beat their 1st round out-of-state opponents and then saw Kahuku go onto beat 2 more out-of-state teams to finish 3rd. That was impressive. Punahou, on the other hand, is not in this year but they have their own tournament with out-of-state teams but they don't bring in nearly the kind of big name teams like the 'Iolani Classic does. Also, you were correct about Maryknoll playing McKinley a 2nd time and only winning by 5. I really don't know how that happened after they beat them by 18.
@Naz: But most of the ILH D1 schools have two vars teams; I guess you could call them the "A" and "AA." I don't know exactly how the ILH refers to them. Based on the score differences, again, I'm pretty sure it's Maryknoll's "AA" (or lower) vars team that played McKinley last night. That would explain why the score was so much closer. Also, again: Why would Maryknoll's A (or higher) vars team play McKinley again, when they played just two weeks ago or so?
There’ve been times where we’ve faced the same team more than once in the preseason.
@gopunahou: Well, yeah, if both schools happened to be in the same preseason tourneys. But this looks like Maryknoll and McKinley played each other again, in the span of two weeks or less, but I don't think the second game was part of a tourney. (I don't know if the first one was). It's as if McKinley wanted a second chance to prove something to Maryknoll, and they almost did. They lost by only 5 this time. Doesn't look like Maryknoll is a "contender."

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

#19 Post by Naz » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:31 pm

HS Football Fanatic wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:44 pm

@gopunahou: Well, yeah, if both schools happened to be in the same preseason tourneys. But this looks like Maryknoll and McKinley played each other again, in the span of two weeks or less, but I don't think the second game was part of a tourney. (I don't know if the first one was). It's as if McKinley wanted a second chance to prove something to Maryknoll, and they almost did. They lost by only 5 this time. Doesn't look like Maryknoll is a "contender."
Upon further reading, the first meeting happened at McKinley's "Black & Gold Classic" tournament. If I was to nitpick the second game, Maryknoll apparently did not play with their only All-State player from last season... but in the 1st meeting he did only score 5 points. This isn't so alarming that I would take Maryknoll out of top 3 contention. I mean, look at Kamehameha, they escaped with a last second lay-up victory over Farrington this week. If Kamehameha stays unbeaten heading into the 'Iolani tournaments I'd give them the top spot heading into next week.

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

#20 Post by HS Football Fanatic » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:02 pm

Naz wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:31 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:44 pm

@gopunahou: Well, yeah, if both schools happened to be in the same preseason tourneys. But this looks like Maryknoll and McKinley played each other again, in the span of two weeks or less, but I don't think the second game was part of a tourney. (I don't know if the first one was). It's as if McKinley wanted a second chance to prove something to Maryknoll, and they almost did. They lost by only 5 this time. Doesn't look like Maryknoll is a "contender."
Upon further reading, the first meeting happened at McKinley's "Black & Gold Classic" tournament. If I was to nitpick the second game, Maryknoll apparently did not play with their only All-State player from last season... but in the 1st meeting he did only score 5 points. This isn't so alarming that I would take Maryknoll out of top 3 contention. I mean, look at Kamehameha, they escaped with a last second lay-up victory over Farrington this week. If Kamehameha stays unbeaten heading into the 'Iolani tournaments I'd give them the top spot heading into next week.
@Naz:
About the Kamehameha game: Like Maryknoll, Kamehameha has two vars teams ("A" and "AA"). If it was the "A" or top team that barely escaped Farrington, then I'll have to downgrade Kamehameha to #3 in the state, at the highest. You sure it wasn't Kamehameha's "AA"--or second--team?

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

#21 Post by HS Football Fanatic » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:16 pm

@Naz:
Update: I just checked Kamehameha's record on scoringlive, and that was indeed Kamehameha's top team that barely got past Farrington by 2 last night. Am now downgrading Kamehameha to #3, and will rank Farrington #2. If Kamehameha played badly enough to scrape-by by that little, I don't think they deserve to be #2. I say, Farrington #2 for their effort.

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

#22 Post by Naz » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:39 pm

HS Football Fanatic wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:16 pm
@Naz:
Update: I just checked Kamehameha's record on scoringlive, and that was indeed Kamehameha's top team that barely got past Farrington by 2 last night. Am now downgrading Kamehameha to #3, and will rank Farrington #2. If Kamehameha played badly enough to scrape-by by that little, I don't think they deserve to be #2. I say, Farrington #2 for their effort.
I can't see moving Kamehameha down for winning. As ugly as a win may be, a win is a win. It would be basically punishing a team for not winning by a certain amount of points. It's hard to not make the case for Kamehameha as the #1 at this time. Their resume so far includes all wins against 4 teams, 3 of which most likely should be considered top-10 caliber teams (Saint Francis - which should be D1, Iolani, and Farrington). If, BIG IF, Kamehameha gets through this week with an unblemished record that means they would potentially have wins against Kahuku, Leilehua, and Moanalua. I don't think any team has as quality wins on their resume as of now. The Saint Francis and 'Iolani wins on back to back nights put them ahead of Punahou who don't have any wins over ILH opponents right now.

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

#23 Post by HS Football Fanatic » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:45 pm

Naz wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:39 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:16 pm
@Naz:
Update: I just checked Kamehameha's record on scoringlive, and that was indeed Kamehameha's top team that barely got past Farrington by 2 last night. Am now downgrading Kamehameha to #3, and will rank Farrington #2. If Kamehameha played badly enough to scrape-by by that little, I don't think they deserve to be #2. I say, Farrington #2 for their effort.
I can't see moving Kamehameha down for winning. As ugly as a win may be, a win is a win. It would be basically punishing a team for not winning by a certain amount of points. It's hard to not make the case for Kamehameha as the #1 at this time. Their resume so far includes all wins against 4 teams, 3 of which most likely should be considered top-10 caliber teams (Saint Francis - which should be D1, Iolani, and Farrington). If, BIG IF, Kamehameha gets through this week with an unblemished record that means they would potentially have wins against Kahuku, Leilehua, and Moanalua. I don't think any team has as quality wins on their resume as of now. The Saint Francis and 'Iolani wins on back to back nights put them ahead of Punahou who don't have any wins over ILH opponents right now.
@Naz: Right now I'm disgusted with Kamehameha. Even as I type, Farrington is playing Mililani, and they're up by 10 in the 3rd qrtr. I think that when a school wins ugly and narrowly escapes, they should be punished by a rank-downgrade, so I feel Kamehameha should drop to #3. That's what they get.
Regarding St Francis, I think you're absolutely right: They have no business being in D2. They almost knocked-off D1 Kamehameha. Might as well hand St Francis the state D2 title right now.

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

#24 Post by Naz » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:17 pm

HS Football Fanatic wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:45 pm

@Naz: Right now I'm disgusted with Kamehameha. Even as I type, Farrington is playing Mililani, and they're up by 10 in the 3rd qrtr. I think that when a school wins ugly and narrowly escapes, they should be punished by a rank-downgrade, so I feel Kamehameha should drop to #3. That's what they get.
Regarding St Francis, I think you're absolutely right: They have no business being in D2. They almost knocked-off D1 Kamehameha. Might as well hand St Francis the state D2 title right now.
You ain't lying about Saint Francis, my friend. Get up to D1 already. I give more props to the schools like Mid-Pacific and St. Louis that despite getting beat by the ILH powerhouses during the season, they continue to compete at D1 instead of dropping themselves down a division.

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

#25 Post by gopunahou » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:17 pm

Naz wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:17 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:45 pm

@Naz: Right now I'm disgusted with Kamehameha. Even as I type, Farrington is playing Mililani, and they're up by 10 in the 3rd qrtr. I think that when a school wins ugly and narrowly escapes, they should be punished by a rank-downgrade, so I feel Kamehameha should drop to #3. That's what they get.
Regarding St Francis, I think you're absolutely right: They have no business being in D2. They almost knocked-off D1 Kamehameha. Might as well hand St Francis the state D2 title right now.
You ain't lying about Saint Francis, my friend. Get up to D1 already. I give more props to the schools like Mid-Pacific and St. Louis that despite getting beat by the ILH powerhouses during the season, they continue to compete at D1 instead of dropping themselves down a division.
St. Francis BB is starting to remind me of Iolani FB pre-2017. The same Iolani FB that gave St. Louis fits in both 2015 and 2016. I also think that St. Louis is struggling in BB because of lack of support. I think that's what made the past couple of coaches quit.
Punahou Football: 12-1, 2008 ILH and State Champions! 11-0, 2013 ILH and State Champions, a team for the ages!

I am Big Dog!
But you can call me STL79!
Or auffrey78!
Or auffrey79!
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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

#26 Post by HS Football Fanatic » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:21 am

Naz wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:17 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:45 pm

@Naz: Right now I'm disgusted with Kamehameha. Even as I type, Farrington is playing Mililani, and they're up by 10 in the 3rd qrtr. I think that when a school wins ugly and narrowly escapes, they should be punished by a rank-downgrade, so I feel Kamehameha should drop to #3. That's what they get.
Regarding St Francis, I think you're absolutely right: They have no business being in D2. They almost knocked-off D1 Kamehameha. Might as well hand St Francis the state D2 title right now.
You ain't lying about Saint Francis, my friend. Get up to D1 already. I give more props to the schools like Mid-Pacific and St. Louis that despite getting beat by the ILH powerhouses during the season, they continue to compete at D1 instead of dropping themselves down a division.
@Naz: Well, actually St Louis has always been D1, and they've been decent for at least the past five years; they haven't sucked since the early-'90s. It's Mid-Pac that definitely deserves credit for staying in D1.

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

#27 Post by HS Football Fanatic » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:25 am

gopunahou wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:17 pm
Naz wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:17 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:45 pm

@Naz: Right now I'm disgusted with Kamehameha. Even as I type, Farrington is playing Mililani, and they're up by 10 in the 3rd qrtr. I think that when a school wins ugly and narrowly escapes, they should be punished by a rank-downgrade, so I feel Kamehameha should drop to #3. That's what they get.
Regarding St Francis, I think you're absolutely right: They have no business being in D2. They almost knocked-off D1 Kamehameha. Might as well hand St Francis the state D2 title right now.
You ain't lying about Saint Francis, my friend. Get up to D1 already. I give more props to the schools like Mid-Pacific and St. Louis that despite getting beat by the ILH powerhouses during the season, they continue to compete at D1 instead of dropping themselves down a division.
St. Francis BB is starting to remind me of Iolani FB pre-2017. The same Iolani FB that gave St. Louis fits in both 2015 and 2016. I also think that St. Louis is struggling in BB because of lack of support. I think that's what made the past couple of coaches quit.
@gopunahou: You know, that's exactly what I was thinking about St Francis. They're the basketball version of Iolani football: Hiding in D2 when they should be in D1. In fact, the case is even more emphatic with St Francis. I think that not only are they better than some D1 schools; I think they're better than most of them, if you're talking D1 schools statewide. As for St Louis, I don't think they've been struggling; they haven't sucked since the early-'90s. It's just that they're not as good in basketball as they are in football.

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

#28 Post by gopunahou » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:43 pm

HS Football Fanatic wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:25 am

@gopunahou: You know, that's exactly what I was thinking about St Francis. They're the basketball version of Iolani football: Hiding in D2 when they should be in D1. In fact, the case is even more emphatic with St Francis. I think that not only are they better than some D1 schools; I think they're better than most of them, if you're talking D1 schools statewide. As for St Louis, I don't think they've been struggling; they haven't sucked since the early-'90s. It's just that they're not as good in basketball as they are in football.
They haven't been a contender since Tengan left, although they've fielded decent teams (2016). They've struggled to keep coaches though (good coaches at that), which makes me think that the school is blowing their load on football.
Punahou Football: 12-1, 2008 ILH and State Champions! 11-0, 2013 ILH and State Champions, a team for the ages!

I am Big Dog!
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Or auffrey78!
Or auffrey79!
Oh well, what I really am is an elitist!

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

#29 Post by HS Football Fanatic » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:02 pm

gopunahou wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:43 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:25 am

@gopunahou: You know, that's exactly what I was thinking about St Francis. They're the basketball version of Iolani football: Hiding in D2 when they should be in D1. In fact, the case is even more emphatic with St Francis. I think that not only are they better than some D1 schools; I think they're better than most of them, if you're talking D1 schools statewide. As for St Louis, I don't think they've been struggling; they haven't sucked since the early-'90s. It's just that they're not as good in basketball as they are in football.
They haven't been a contender since Tengan left, although they've fielded decent teams (2016). They've struggled to keep coaches though (good coaches at that), which makes me think that the school is blowing their load on football.
@gopunahou: Well, there's nothing stopping football players from going out for basketball. I don't know how many of St Louis' football players are also playing basketball. That can vary from school to school, and even from year to year at the same school. True, St Louis hasn't really been a contender in basketball, but they didn't suck, either. I'd say St Louis is a school that might not be outstanding in basketball, but I think they're above-average. It could be that there are a lot of St Louis alumni like genks: They're all-in for St Louis in football, but in other sports they can take or leave it. To say that St Louis is a football school would be the understatement of the year.
There might very well be football players at your alma mater who are also playing basketball. And, though I hate to say or admit it, Punahou is most definitely a basketball school. I can't remember the last time Punahou sucked in basketball, if they ever did suck in it. Even when I first started following high-school sports in the mid-1970s, Punahou was already kicking butt in basketball. Of course, that doesn't mean that Punahou won the ILH and/or state title every year, but it seems that they were always not too far from the top. Some things never change, as they say. What can anyone do? What can anyone say? It is what it is. And here we are in late-2017, and I've got Punahou at #1.

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

#30 Post by Naz » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:41 pm

HS Football Fanatic wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:45 pm

@Naz: Well, actually St Louis has always been D1, and they've been decent for at least the past five years; they haven't sucked since the early-'90s. It's Mid-Pac that definitely deserves credit for staying in D1.
I feel if MidPac decided to go D2 for a season or two, they would give SF a run for their money for the ILH and states but I respect the heck out of them for sticking it out and building at the D1 level. While we're on the topic of Saint Louis, can anyone remember when the last time Saint Louis got one of the ILH spots heading into states? I honestly can't remember the last time I saw SL in states for boy's bb. What I do know is that this year, Saint Louis lines up like this: 6'9", 6'7", 6'5", 6'5", 6'5", 6'3", 6'2", 6'2". Now I take all listed heights with a grain of salt because often they are exaggerated but even so, this kind of lineup is unmatched across the state. There is no reason Saint Louis should not compete for the ILH and they are packed with juniors and seniors. And yet, they have losses already to Kalaheo and Farrington. Go figure.

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