1998 vs 2013

[SectionACrazy]

Maybe I'm wrong but could this year, should we go 0-12, be more frustrating than the 1998 season?
Reason...there's more overall talent, I think. And, the games show that there's wins to have been had.
IDK... as I said, maybe I'm wrong.

Any thoughts?

[My3Cats]

The incompetence of the head coaches is just uncanny in a comparison.

[DaBigChinese]

If you would have to compare both seasons, its easy to say this season is by far more disappointing. You have to remember, when VonAppen had his "perfect" season, Hawaii was coming off years of losing, with the end of the Bob Wagner era and the thankfully short beginning of VonAppen, Hawaii was basically a beaten down dog with its tail between its legs. It was also in the time that college football was not where it is today, with major college realignment on the distant horizon. This season, the frustration mounts from the success of the program from the previous years, and Hawaii falling further and further behind the college football landscape in terms of relevance. That is why this season is by far more frustrating then 1998.

[SundayJam]

If you would have to compare both seasons, its easy to say this season is by far more disappointing. You have to remember, when VonAppen had his "perfect" season, Hawaii was coming off years of losing, with the end of the Bob Wagner era and the thankfully short beginning of VonAppen, Hawaii was basically a beaten down dog with its tail between its legs. It was also in the time that college football was not where it is today, with major college realignment on the distant horizon. This season, the frustration mounts from the success of the program from the previous years, and Hawaii falling further and further behind the college football landscape in terms of relevance. That is why this season is by far more frustrating then 1998.

Dunno...both Wagner and McMackin had WAC championships.
Although the 2010 championship team was just a thing of beauty.

[madeinhawaii]

If you would have to compare both seasons, its easy to say this season is by far more disappointing. You have to remember, when VonAppen had his "perfect" season, Hawaii was coming off years of losing, with the end of the Bob Wagner era and the thankfully short beginning of VonAppen, Hawaii was basically a beaten down dog with its tail between its legs. It was also in the time that college football was not where it is today, with major college realignment on the distant horizon. This season, the frustration mounts from the success of the program from the previous years, and Hawaii falling further and further behind the college football landscape in terms of relevance. That is why this season is by far more frustrating then 1998.

Dunno...both Wagner and McMackin had WAC championships.
Although the 2010 championship team was just a thing of beauty.

Wait .. WAIT! ... 1998 came 6 years after the Holiday Bowl in '92. ... Chow's unblemished season comes 6 years after the Sugar Bowl! ... Whoah!... deja vu.

[poidog]

It's probably more frustrating now than it was back then. Everyone knew that when VonAppen took over that it was a rebuilding project all around and that it needed to be, particularly on offense. The offense was built around the triple option, and the option was "going out of style" back then and people were welcoming of a change in philosophy. No one knew what to expect, and when things didn't go so well people were disappointed, but no one had any specific expectations for success - everyone just hoped it would be better.

The difference here is that Norm Chow decided to "blow things up" when maybe it wasn't necessary to blow everything up. And if you are going to blow things up, you better make sure your plan works and that there is visible improvement and something to get excited about, or people will give up on the program. At least VonAppen gave the holdover QB, Glenn Freitas, a shot, though. Chow didn't even do that here, and Freitas may have been a worse fit for that offense than Graves was for this offense. Chow probably should have stuck with Graves and Higgins, because it would have been a convenient excuse for the offense (just wait til MY QB's get here). But when you go out of your way to change everything just for the sake of changing things, you have to take the blame for when things go wrong. It's that "blame factor" that makes this season more disappointing than 1998.

I think one of the reasons why we all loved June Jones was that he came in and took a lot of what was left here and did good things with what we had. He came in and said "what can we do" and not "what can't we do", which is what it felt like when Chow came aboard. Dan Robinson only had one year of eligibility, but it didn't deter JJ from sticking with him.

[xer 21]

It's probably more frustrating now than it was back then. Everyone knew that when VonAppen took over that it was a rebuilding project all around and that it needed to be, particularly on offense. The offense was built around the triple option, and the option was "going out of style" back then and people were welcoming of a change in philosophy. No one knew what to expect, and when things didn't go so well people were disappointed, but no one had any specific expectations for success - everyone just hoped it would be better.

The difference here is that Norm Chow decided to "blow things up" when maybe it wasn't necessary to blow everything up. And if you are going to blow things up, you better make sure your plan works and that there is visible improvement and something to get excited about, or people will give up on the program. At least VonAppen gave the holdover QB, Glenn Freitas, a shot, though. Chow didn't even do that here, and Freitas may have been a worse fit for that offense than Graves was for this offense. Chow probably should have stuck with Graves and Higgins, because it would have been a convenient excuse for the offense (just wait til MY QB's get here). But when you go out of your way to change everything just for the sake of changing things, you have to take the blame for when things go wrong. It's that "blame factor" that makes this season more disappointing than 1998.

I think one of the reasons why we all loved June Jones was that he came in and took a lot of what was left here and did good things with what we had. He came in and said "what can we do" and not "what can't we do", which is what it felt like when Chow came aboard. Dan Robinson only had one year of eligibility, but it didn't deter JJ from sticking with him.

as bad as the qb play has been at times, i think Higgins proved why Chow didnt give him a shot, when he was FORCED to play.

[poidog]

as bad as the qb play has been at times, i think Higgins proved why Chow didnt give him a shot, when he was FORCED to play.

I don't see it. that was one game almost a calendar year ago. I don't think your judgment on Higgins is based on any legit evidence more recent than late 2012. His only chance to play this season was against UNR, and he played better than Woosley in that game (game log here: http://hawaiiathletics.com/boxscore.asp ... l&id=17456). Maybe he is as bad as you say, but I think he should be given a shot the prove it or to prove otherwise, because it isn't like the other 3 guys are winning us games and one of the other 3 won't even be here next season.

All I know is that Higgins did well enough in fall camp to be named "co-2nd string" by Chow, only to be demoted to 4th after Chow's golden boy went down and Chow actually had to pick someone else to play. He has no interest in playing a QB he didn't hand-pick to be here.

[EITSwarrior]

as bad as the qb play has been at times, i think Higgins proved why Chow didnt give him a shot, when he was FORCED to play.

I don't see it. that was one game almost a calendar year ago. I don't think your judgment on Higgins is based on any legit evidence more recent than late 2012. His only chance to play this season was against UNR, and he played better than Woosley in that game (game log here: http://hawaiiathletics.com/boxscore.asp ... l&id=17456). Maybe he is as bad as you say, but I think he should be given a shot the prove it or to prove otherwise, because it isn't like the other 3 guys are winning us games and one of the other 3 won't even be here next season.

All I know is that Higgins did well enough in fall camp to be named "co-2nd string" by Chow, only to be demoted to 4th after Chow's golden boy went down and Chow actually had to pick someone else to play. He has no interest in playing a QB he didn't hand-pick to be here.

Higgins can't play, he has no zip on his throws. I've been watching him since high school and as a Crusader alum it's hurts me to say, he can't play better than any of the other 3 qbs.

[xer 21]

as bad as the qb play has been at times, i think Higgins proved why Chow didnt give him a shot, when he was FORCED to play.

I don't see it. that was one game almost a calendar year ago. I don't think your judgment on Higgins is based on any legit evidence more recent than late 2012. His only chance to play this season was against UNR, and he played better than Woosley in that game (game log here: http://hawaiiathletics.com/boxscore.asp ... l&id=17456).

i know what he did. Woolsey played like crap too, but at least he has SOME upside.

also, "played better than woolsey" is ignoring the fact that he was still God awful. they were both under 50%, threw for around 50 yards. and are you forgetting how higgins lost TWO fumbles? those are worse than INT's. Oh, and one of them was on an 18 yard sack (how do you even manage that?) which he lost for a touchdown. if he played better than woolsey, that's like saying dog poop smell better than cat poop. they're both still unabashedly awful.

[poidog]

if he played better than woolsey, that's like saying dog poop smell better than cat poop. they're both still unabashedly awful.

Higgins moved the ball down to the 10 yd line on his next possession and had a TD pass that was nullified, all in 2-minute drill mode, and against mostly 1st-string defenders (unlike SS's near-comeback against Fresno's backups). The knock on the QB's is the lack of "grasp of the offense", yet one QB shows at least some grasp and then we never ever see him again. They didn't shelve him after the 18-yard sack, they shelved him after his best series since last season! My point is not that Higgins is the savior - My point is that Chow will throw whatever poop at the wall to see what sticks, as long as it is "his" poop and not poop he inherited.

[poidog]

Higgins can't play, he has no zip on his throws. I've been watching him since high school and as a Crusader alum it's hurts me to say, he can't play better than any of the other 3 qbs.

Graham has a lot of zip on his throws... but it hasn't translated to much success. Right now it's about who has command of the huddle and makes good decisions and who will the rest of the team rally around. I dunno if that guy is Higgins, but we'll never know because he's the only one that doesn't get multiple opportunities... to turn the ball over.

[xer 21]

if he played better than woolsey, that's like saying dog poop smell better than cat poop. they're both still unabashedly awful.

Higgins moved the ball down to the 10 yd line on his next possession and had a TD pass that was nullified, all in 2-minute drill mode, and against mostly 1st-string defenders (unlike SS's near-comeback against Fresno's backups). The knock on the QB's is the lack of "grasp of the offense", yet one QB shows at least some grasp and then we never ever see him again. They didn't shelve him after the 18-yard sack, they shelved him after his best series since last season! My point is not that Higgins is the savior - My point is that Chow will throw whatever poop at the wall to see what sticks, as long as it is "his" poop and not poop he inherited.

he still doesnt look better than schroeder. and he didnt last year when chow "blew it up". last year, Higgins looked so much worse. putting up 160 yards as an OFFENSE against a service academy is all kinds of embarassing.

[EITSwarrior]

Higgins can't play, he has no zip on his throws. I've been watching him since high school and as a Crusader alum it's hurts me to say, he can't play better than any of the other 3 qbs.

Graham has a lot of zip on his throws... but it hasn't translated to much success. Right now it's about who has command of the huddle and makes good decisions and who will the rest of the team rally around. I dunno if that guy is Higgins, but we'll never know because he's the only one that doesn't get multiple opportunities... to turn the ball over.

Your right arm strength shouldn't be the number one thing that you should base your QB on, but you at least need to have a decent arm like Schroder. Higgins fast ball looks like a lob from Graham. There's a reason hes not playing and that's it.

[DaBigChinese]

At this point of the year, with no post season possible, the emphasis should be on developing players for next year. The problem with that is that Norm knows there may not BE a next year. He sure seems more and more desperate in his personnel moves. I respect Schroeder a lot. He is one tough SOB, but at this point, what is the sense of starting him? If Graham truly is the future, put him in and stick with him. The saying was always that he didn't grasp the offense or did not have chemistry with the receivers, this is the time to do it. This is a guy that hasnt had any real game-time experience before this season in a long time due to injuries or transferring. Player development is the key to future success, and there is none going on right now.