QB change please

[Makiki Hustle]

I find it hard to believe that everyone but Schroeder suddenly forgot how to play football, and no one's been able to figure out how to play after 8 games. Whether or not it was Schroeder or didn't his job or if it was the O-line is almost moot at this point - the bottom line is that what they are trying to do just isn't working.

I agree that it's a moot point.

Early in the season, players will make mistakes. That's understandable.

But this far into the season, mistakes fall onto the coaching. If the players are running their plays incorrectly, I view that as a fault of the coaches for not correcting these things in practice.

The type of mistakes being discussed on the press conferences aren't opposition-based mistakes--they're execution mistakes.

What gives? What are they doing in practice? Why aren't these avoidable problems corrected?

[madeinhawaii]

Okay... Higgins came in and saw an open man 5 times and successfully connected 4 of those times. What happened on the 5th? Was it a poorly thrown ball? Tipped? or thrown away? Anybody remember?


And how is it that Higgins can find an open man and connect, but Schroeder can't? Are they running different routes?

[Duster]

just finished watching the coach's weekly press conference on youtube. seems like they are doing what they can with the personnel they have while still trying to run his offense.

he also gave an example of a play to the reporters where it was all on the o-line, specifically the center but schroeder gets the blame because we saw a qb running away from his protection.

chow said they called a "50" protection which involved moving the pocket to the left. schroeder at the snap went to the left per the call. the o-line went RIGHT. no protection on a weakside blitz and boom schroder goes down. but we as fans don't know what protection was called and who's fault it was (it was the center who thought he saw strong-side blitz so he moved line to the right on that play).

there really is a LOT broken right now. schroeder apparently isn't one of them according to chow. no qb controversy.

I find it hard to believe that everyone but Schroeder suddenly forgot how to play football, and no one's been able to figure out how to play after 8 games. Whether or not it was Schroeder or didn't his job or if it was the O-line is almost moot at this point - the bottom line is that what they are trying to do just isn't working. Maybe the O-line will respond better to a different QB? Coaches like to make like the game is infinitely complicated, especially when defending themselves from critics and angry fans. There are 11 players on offense, but the one who impacts the game the most is the QB, so why not give another QB a try and see what happens? Why not see if the other 10 players respond differently to someone else? And if it doesn't work, what's the big deal? Will we lose by 50 instead of 40?

Poidog, I see your point. As weird as this may sound, Coach Chow may be "Mr. Spock-ing" this a little too much, i.e., being too logical. Sure, SS may have the skill-set to be the most successful of the QBs on the roster and has shown that in practice. However, he is still somewhat of a new guy on the team to his teammates who essentially walked in and got the starting job a few days into Fall Camp. Smart guy? Absolutely. Has best QB tools? Accordingly to many and to the one who counts most, yes. Diligent and dedicated? You bet. However, is there a chance that the offense will be more responsive if a different QB who has toiled and put sweat-equity into the program starts? Logic would say no, but football is a game that is also driven by intangibles, emotion and chemistry. The search for the right chemistry seems to have encompassed just about every offensive position except QB due to injury and/or game performance. And still no wins against FBS level teams.

In addition, Coach Chow may be too emotionless and robotic. I cannot see how a fiery pre-game speech would hurt. The Lavelle Edwards approach has not paid any dividends. These are college guys. I think Coach Demarest could get them fired up with a pre-game speech (he got me fired up at a Na Koa luncheon), and since special teams is on the field first, why not?

[808havok]

I find it hard to believe that everyone but Schroeder suddenly forgot how to play football, and no one's been able to figure out how to play after 8 games. Whether or not it was Schroeder or didn't his job or if it was the O-line is almost moot at this point - the bottom line is that what they are trying to do just isn't working. Maybe the O-line will respond better to a different QB? Coaches like to make like the game is infinitely complicated, especially when defending themselves from critics and angry fans. There are 11 players on offense, but the one who impacts the game the most is the QB, so why not give another QB a try and see what happens? Why not see if the other 10 players respond differently to someone else? And if it doesn't work, what's the big deal? Will we lose by 50 instead of 40?

first of all, i'm firmly in the "chow is the wrong man for the job" camp. let that be clear. i've said so many times in many threads. i would've loved to see a spread/spread option offense since we had the perfect personnel to run it. but i digress...

having said that, for this particular thread, i'm playing devil's advocate. my question is, why should the team "respond differently" to a different qb? regardless of who throws the dang ball, the protections, the routes, etc. do NOT change! the dynamics of practice needs to carry over on the field. practice practice practice. chow, as any coach should, is trying to establish an offensive identity and gel the 1st teamers into a unit. for whatever reason, all the dang units are broken. all 11 are NOT playing together.

i think the frustration mounts because we are seeing such poor play from many players we did not expect poor play from. the elephant in the room is - why?

[madeinhawaii]

I find it hard to believe that everyone but Schroeder suddenly forgot how to play football, and no one's been able to figure out how to play after 8 games. Whether or not it was Schroeder or didn't his job or if it was the O-line is almost moot at this point - the bottom line is that what they are trying to do just isn't working. Maybe the O-line will respond better to a different QB? Coaches like to make like the game is infinitely complicated, especially when defending themselves from critics and angry fans. There are 11 players on offense, but the one who impacts the game the most is the QB, so why not give another QB a try and see what happens? Why not see if the other 10 players respond differently to someone else? And if it doesn't work, what's the big deal? Will we lose by 50 instead of 40?

first of all, i'm firmly in the "chow is the wrong man for the job" camp. let that be clear. i've said so many times in many threads. i would've loved to see a spread/spread option offense since we had the perfect personnel to run it. but i digress...

having said that, for this particular thread, i'm playing devil's advocate. my question is, why should the team "respond differently" to a different qb? regardless of who throws the dang ball, the protections, the routes, etc. do NOT change! the dynamics of practice needs to carry over on the field. practice practice practice. chow, as any coach should, is trying to establish an offensive identity and gel the 1st teamers into a unit. for whatever reason, all the dang units are broken. all 11 are NOT playing together.

i think the frustration mounts because we are seeing such poor play from many players we did not expect poor play from. the elephant in the room is - why?

But then, how is it that the team suddenly comes alive when Higgins is the QBack.. they even looked better with Shutter in there, too -- getting a 1st down on a QB scramble. But Higgins found an open receiver 5 times and connected four out of 5 times. Did the Oline suddenly block better? Did the receivers suddenly find a way to get open? They were playing against the same 2nd/3rd team players in the 2nd half that Schroeder did...

I'm just wondering...

I'd like to see them try this change up earlier in the game against 1st team players while our players are still fresh, too.

[808havok]

But then, how is it that the team suddenly comes alive when Higgins is the QBack.. they even looked better with Shutter in there, too -- getting a 1st down on a QB scramble. But Higgins found an open receiver 5 times and connected four out of 5 times. Did the Oline suddenly block better? Did the receivers suddenly find a way to get open? They were playing against the same 2nd/3rd team players in the 2nd half that Schroeder did...

I'm just wondering...

I'd like to see them try this change up earlier in the game against 1st team players while our players are still fresh, too.

i saw the same things too. i have no explanation for it. i'm just saying that there shouldn't be such a change but there seems to have been.

its a chicken/egg problem we as fans can talk about all we want but won't get answers too. is it really all qb play? or is the team "behind" certain qb's and want to stick it to the man as some posts have suggested (chow not owning the locker room)? seriously, chow must see something on tape that we as fans are not seeing to keep schroeder in no?

i have no answers...

[WarriorTyme]

Okay... Higgins came in and saw an open man 5 times and successfully connected 4 of those times. What happened on the 5th? Was it a poorly thrown ball? Tipped? or thrown away? Anybody remember?


And how is it that Higgins can find an open man and connect, but Schroeder can't? Are they running different routes?

Since I was there to watch it in person, Higgins threw the 4 completions for short to medium range passes. And he hit them fast, I mean the rushers didn't have enough time to get to him for the most part. The 1 pass Higgins threw for a incompletion was a like a 30 or 40 bomb to the end zone, it was a nice pass but just off the mark and was batted away by the safety in the corner of the end zone.

I still think that Schroeder should start the game and rotate in Higgins, Shutter and maybe Graves or someone else if possible. Building depth and saving Schroeder from the pounding he has been taking would be a good thing. Depending on how the game is going, I mean if by some act of god the Warriors are not down by 28 in the first quarter or by 42 by half time. Then playing SS more game reps with Higgins or Shutter getting some game reps might be the answer. But if it looks like how it has been with the Warriors getting blow out then take SS out and let Higgins, Shutter and some others get game reps against a good defense.

[Makiki Hustle]

But then, how is it that the team suddenly comes alive when Higgins is the QBack.. they even looked better with Shutter in there, too -- getting a 1st down on a QB scramble. But Higgins found an open receiver 5 times and connected four out of 5 times. Did the Oline suddenly block better? Did the receivers suddenly find a way to get open? They were playing against the same 2nd/3rd team players in the 2nd half that Schroeder did...

I'm just wondering...

Higgins made short, quick passes.

Our offense usually gets receivers open for these.

Schroeder seems to ignore them and goes for the deeper passes into the secondary--often in heavy coverage. High risk, high reward types of passes.

[madeinhawaii]

But then, how is it that the team suddenly comes alive when Higgins is the QBack.. they even looked better with Shutter in there, too -- getting a 1st down on a QB scramble. But Higgins found an open receiver 5 times and connected four out of 5 times. Did the Oline suddenly block better? Did the receivers suddenly find a way to get open? They were playing against the same 2nd/3rd team players in the 2nd half that Schroeder did...

I'm just wondering...

Higgins made short, quick passes.

Our offense usually gets receivers open for these.

Schroeder seems to ignore them and goes for the deeper passes into the secondary--often in heavy coverage. High risk, high reward types of passes.

Is he ignoring them or simply not seeing them? High reward or no reward? Let's get the short ones first.. build that momentum.. get used to catching the ball.. the go for the deeper ones when the defense is playing close to the chest...

[TheDuke]

I think throwing against a third team defense has something to do with things.

[madeinhawaii]

I think throwing against a third team defense has something to do with things.

I thought so at first, but Schroeder was in there for the third qtr and Fresno had already replaced their starters.

[Optimus]

I think throwing against a third team defense has something to do with things.

TheDuke, Don't waste your time defending yourself any further. These kinds of fans think Tyler Graunke could have beaten Georgia and Inoke Funaki could have beaten Florida just because they led TD drives in 4th Qtr blowouts. Yet when an opponent scores against us when we are blowing them out, they are quick to say it was against our backups.

[HawaiianHogster]

To suggest that the woes of the team A) lies strictly on the shoulders of the QB, and B) that a change at the position will eliminate the woes - is laughable.

When do coaches that make those changes actually pays off? UH has done that because of injuries. The offense was not moving down-field making TD's. The QB would hold on to the ball too long getting sacked. They get hurt. A backup QB comes in and moves the offense down-field scoring TD's. He gets the ball out quicker. He runs away from the blitz giving the receivers time to get open or runs for first down. We have seen it happen here at Hawaii and it worked. But only when the coach had no choice due to injury.

My guess is Sean will be knocked out in the first half against Boise State. I hope not but Boise needs to win and will come after him hard.

When a head coach sticks with a QB when he is having trouble and unable to correct their mistakes and takes a step backwards the only way he will be replaced is if he gets knocked out of the game. Again I don't wish any harm on anyone. Just stating what Norm Chow has been stating. He isn't going to change QB's. Good luck with your health Sean. I will pray for your safety.

[TheDuke]

so when did Higgins enter the game?

was it Scroeder, Shutter then Higgins?

was it Q4?

If he was the third option and in Q4 my guess is that at that point Fresno had their third team D or at least a partial third team in the game.

[KK Warrior 22]

so when did Higgins enter the game?

was it Scroeder, Shutter then Higgins?

was it Q4?

If he was the third option and in Q4 my guess is that at that point Fresno had their third team D or at least a partial third team in the game.

Aloha Duke, I think you may have misunderstood. Actually Higgins released his passes down field at the right time, avoiding the rush and early enough for the reciever down field to make that slight seperation between him and the defender in making a successful catch. May look easy against the 3rd, 4th stringers, but I think the results would have turned out the same way against the 1st stringers.

Schroeder is ok, but because of his limitations and ability to move in and out of the pocket, he may wanna take notes from Higgins and release the ball much more sooner so that he can avoid getting thrashed alot. The O-line will always get the finger pointed at them for his failures. The O-line has held for 3 seconds majority of the time through out the course of the game. That should be more than enough time to get rid of the ball and throw it down field, if not get rid of it to avoid the sack and the loss of yardage. Anything more would be a like a top BSC program which we are not even close to yet, and will probably never get there unless some kind of adjustment is made.

I believe in coach Chow and his decision to keep Schroeder as the starting QB. I also have the patience to wait a year or two for the results good or bad. But to not be competitive in games because of the limited abilities of a QB that can't get a passing game going in the right direction makes the fans all agree that a quarterback change is needed. It's not up to the fans to decide, but majority rules and what they all see is the same results week in, week out. The naked eye never lies.

Schroeder is the first guy on offense with the ball and he controls the temple of the offense with the ability to generate a decent passing game. He has had his opportunities and feels no pressure on losing his starting role. So the margin of improvement and the ability to work much harder on the field repeats itself and gets much worse week after week. I feel that it's time we gave other QB's an opportunity to show case there abilities to compete.

Without the fan support, there would be no University Of Hawaii football program. So keep'em happy and give them what they want. If the revenue goes down this year and next, it will not be the wins and loses that will get Chow on the hot seat, the decrease in attendence and revenue will. That's why Mack was let go. It's all about the bacon, lucky we liv Hawaii.