All OIA OPEN State Championship. Sign of Things to Come

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TheNewNORM
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All OIA OPEN State Championship. Sign of Things to Come

Post by TheNewNORM »

Kahuku vs. Mililani 2023 is the first All Oia Open States in History. This is not by upsets or bracketing. ILH open teams went 2-4 against OIA open teams this year.
As we look at possible future ILH roster, they are no Tuas or Jaydens in the near future. We also see ILH players transferring to OIA teams.
Why? The OIA transfer portal is very lenient. This is causing a shift in power. There is no way the ILH can compete. They already have a 1 year sit down rule when transferring.
OIA teams that have benefitted in 2023 has been Mililani, Waipahu and Farrington in that order. Teams that have been affected are Aiea and Kapolei.
When watching Mililani vs.Kahuku, I assumed it was the high octane offense that was causing blowouts. But closer observations show their roster with 14 "new" players with 6 starting on defense. Many 1st year seniors. Not only that but up to 7 Millville players were transferred out to lower class OIA teams. Huh? That's a 21 man movement off season.
So unless the OIA does something about it, there will be blowouts and the classification issues year after year. But with the All OIA State final, maybe not.
Suggestions.
* If a player lives in the local school district, he's on that team unless He wants to transfer.
*6 district exempt player per team.
*No senior transfer except from out of state or ILH or actual home move.

Unless changes are made, certain teams will always benefit. Other teams like Farrington will suffer because they top loaded this year, and will have to go to the Open next year depleted of transfers. Sort of like happened to Aiea this year.

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Re: All OIA OPEN State Championship. Sign of Things to Come

Post by ChadFukuoka »

TheNewNORM wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2023 2:11 pm Kahuku vs. Mililani 2023 is the first All Oia Open States in History. This is not by upsets or bracketing. ILH open teams went 2-4 against OIA open teams this year.
As we look at possible future ILH roster, they are no Tuas or Jaydens in the near future. We also see ILH players transferring to OIA teams.
Why? The OIA transfer portal is very lenient. This is causing a shift in power. There is no way the ILH can compete. They already have a 1 year sit down rule when transferring.
OIA teams that have benefitted in 2023 has been Mililani, Waipahu and Farrington in that order. Teams that have been affected are Aiea and Kapolei.
When watching Mililani vs.Kahuku, I assumed it was the high octane offense that was causing blowouts. But closer observations show their roster with 14 "new" players with 6 starting on defense. Many 1st year seniors. Not only that but up to 7 Millville players were transferred out to lower class OIA teams. Huh? That's a 21 man movement off season.
So unless the OIA does something about it, there will be blowouts and the classification issues year after year. But with the All OIA State final, maybe not.
Suggestions.
* If a player lives in the local school district, he's on that team unless He wants to transfer.
*6 district exempt player per team.
*No senior transfer except from out of state or ILH or actual home move.

Unless changes are made, certain teams will always benefit. Other teams like Farrington will suffer because they top loaded this year, and will have to go to the Open next year depleted of transfers. Sort of like happened to Aiea this year.
I think a lot of families would be able to circumvent the actual home move requirement you suggested by using a relative's or friend's address. I'm sure there are already families doing that, whether it's athletics related or not.

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Re: All OIA OPEN State Championship. Sign of Things to Come

Post by gopunahou »

If that is the case, I see nothing wrong with making the Open championship resemble the old Prep Bowl. OIA champ vs ILH champ.
Punahou Football: 12-1, 2008 ILH and State Champions! 11-0, 2013 ILH and State Champions, a team for the ages!

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Re: All OIA OPEN State Championship. Sign of Things to Come

Post by ChadFukuoka »

gopunahou wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:36 pm If that is the case, I see nothing wrong with making the Open championship resemble the old Prep Bowl. OIA champ vs ILH champ.
I would much rather have the OIA-ILH alliance back, and the top 4 teams make the semifinals regardless of league affiliation. The years during the alliance when St Louis was dominating the ILH, Punahou was better than the third place, and sometimes the second place OIA team. But didn't get in because of the 3 OIA, and 1 ILH team format.

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Re: All OIA OPEN State Championship. Sign of Things to Come

Post by unpaid »

Players who have the talent to play in college,maybe the NFL for the select few,still have to get enough playing time to put together a good video to send out to colleges.

The days where St.Louis would have 300 kids in their football programs are over.Players realize every season counts,so they are not waiting until their senior year to start in a stacked program and count on that one year of highlights to get themselves noticed. Injuries,and especially Covid have made it very clear that nothing is guaranteed. You are in high school for four years but that doesn’t mean you will play all four years,so the players have to find a way to get on the field early and often.

So,they transfer.

Kahuku and Mililani are getting transfers and the OIA schools might be on the rise in the Open.

That success will eventually cause them to fade like the ILH schools seem to be.They might stock up on so many good players that there won’t be enough playing time to go around and then they might see their talent get thinned out like St.Louis has seen.Maybe St.Louis will become a destination again. Every thing seems to go in cycles.

Legally, I don’t think transfers will ever be banned,but I do think the current transfer policy of the OIA needs to be tweaked a little.Aiea lost almost a third of their squad in the last offseason and Kapolei lost around ten good players,although they have way more numbers than Aiea. These two teams were impacted negatively and disproportionately compared to other schools in the state. That should concern the admins at the OIA offices. I think you would have to see mass exoduses from two more schools this upcoming off season before the OIA would think there is a problem.

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Re: All OIA OPEN State Championship. Sign of Things to Come

Post by GentlemanOfTheLou »

unpaid wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2023 5:44 am Players who have the talent to play in college,maybe the NFL for the select few,still have to get enough playing time to put together a good video to send out to colleges.

The days where St.Louis would have 300 kids in their football programs are over.Players realize every season counts,so they are not waiting until their senior year to start in a stacked program and count on that one year of highlights to get themselves noticed. Injuries,and especially Covid have made it very clear that nothing is guaranteed. You are in high school for four years but that doesn’t mean you will play all four years,so the players have to find a way to get on the field early and often.

So,they transfer.

Kahuku and Mililani are getting transfers and the OIA schools might be on the rise in the Open.

That success will eventually cause them to fade like the ILH schools seem to be.They might stock up on so many good players that there won’t be enough playing time to go around and then they might see their talent get thinned out like St.Louis has seen.Maybe St.Louis will become a destination again. Every thing seems to go in cycles.

Legally, I don’t think transfers will ever be banned,but I do think the current transfer policy of the OIA needs to be tweaked a little.Aiea lost almost a third of their squad in the last offseason and Kapolei lost around ten good players,although they have way more numbers than Aiea. These two teams were impacted negatively and disproportionately compared to other schools in the state. That should concern the admins at the OIA offices. I think you would have to see mass exoduses from two more schools this upcoming off season before the OIA would think there is a problem.
I agree with you on that, it's truly all a cycle, in fact I heard that a Kahuku QB transferred to Saint Louis because of the fact that Kahuku was just too stacked(Don't know how he'll fare out though...). Once the three main OIA schools get too stacked for all the talent to go there, they start spreading out all over again. Makes the chances of every school winning a state championship more even.

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Re: All OIA OPEN State Championship. Sign of Things to Come

Post by rrforlifebaby »

I think this year more than most, reflects just how badly york wants to win. Besides the many transfers, the quite part that we found out during the OIA Open championship is the trojans have Brian Derby on staff coaching the Oline. iykyk.

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Re: All OIA OPEN State Championship. Sign of Things to Come

Post by TheNewNORM »

Couple more things on the movement/transfers of these players. When you look at Kapolei in 2023, their team lost 5 players to Mililani and 3 to Kahuku. These were quality players, either starting or playing. I believe if they had stayed at Kapolei, they would have had a better shot at States and denying Mililani and Kahuku some very good players.
In the case of Tuli going to Kahuku as Qb, well Hernandez made up his mind that Amisone was his starter. So it was a no brainer for Tuli as a Senior. I mean it was sit on the bench at Kapolei or handing St.John Bosco its first loss at Kahuku. Big press.
So for all the transfers out of Kapolei, you are now in the Open State Finals. Congratulations.
I believe that Waianae and Moanalua should drop to D1 and Waipahu and Farrington up to Open for 2024. And Sitani Mikaele a State All Star at Rb.

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Re: All OIA OPEN State Championship. Sign of Things to Come

Post by TheNewNORM »

rrforlifebaby wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2023 4:21 pm I think this year more than most, reflects just how badly york wants to win. Besides the many transfers, the quite part that we found out during the OIA Open championship is the trojans have Brian Derby on staff coaching the Oline. iykyk.

GO BIG RED!!! HIT SOME BODY BOIZ!!
If Derby coaches there, power to Mililani. I just hate to see "Club" type teams where kids need to be invited to play. Mililani kids for Mililani football.

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Re: All OIA OPEN State Championship. Sign of Things to Come

Post by HS Football Fanatic »

TheNewNORM wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2023 1:33 pm Couple more things on the movement/transfers of these players. When you look at Kapolei in 2023, their team lost 5 players to Mililani and 3 to Kahuku. These were quality players, either starting or playing. I believe if they had stayed at Kapolei, they would have had a better shot at States and denying Mililani and Kahuku some very good players.
In the case of Tuli going to Kahuku as Qb, well Hernandez made up his mind that Amisone was his starter. So it was a no brainer for Tuli as a Senior. I mean it was sit on the bench at Kapolei or handing St.John Bosco its first loss at Kahuku. Big press.
So for all the transfers out of Kapolei, you are now in the Open State Finals. Congratulations.
I believe that Waianae and Moanalua should drop to D1 and Waipahu and Farrington up to Open for 2024. And Sitani Mikaele a State All Star at Rb.
@TheNewNORM:

I would be very surprised if Waianae were to drop to D1. Back in the mid- to late-'70s, Waianae High was Kick-Butt City in football. They were what St Louis School was in football in the '90s. If Waianae were to drop to D1, I wouldn't be surprised if Waianae alumni--especially guys in their 60s, like myself--beat a path to the Waianae AD's office. Waianae alumni in their 60s were at that school when they were kicking every other school's butt (except Kamehameha's, which at that time was also Kick-Butt City in football). I think the alumni would insist that Waianae continue to take its chances in Open, rather than drop to D1.

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Re: All OIA OPEN State Championship. Sign of Things to Come

Post by TheNewNORM »

HS Football Fanatic wrote: Sat Nov 25, 2023 5:38 pm
TheNewNORM wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2023 1:33 pm Couple more things on the movement/transfers of these players. When you look at Kapolei in 2023, their team lost 5 players to Mililani and 3 to Kahuku. These were quality players, either starting or playing. I believe if they had stayed at Kapolei, they would have had a better shot at States and denying Mililani and Kahuku some very good players.
In the case of Tuli going to Kahuku as Qb, well Hernandez made up his mind that Amisone was his starter. So it was a no brainer for Tuli as a Senior. I mean it was sit on the bench at Kapolei or handing St.John Bosco its first loss at Kahuku. Big press.
So for all the transfers out of Kapolei, you are now in the Open State Finals. Congratulations.
I believe that Waianae and Moanalua should drop to D1 and Waipahu and Farrington up to Open for 2024. And Sitani Mikaele a State All Star at Rb.
@TheNewNORM:

I would be very surprised if Waianae were to drop to D1. Back in the mid- to late-'70s, Waianae High was Kick-Butt City in football. They were what St Louis School was in football in the '90s. If Waianae were to drop to D1, I wouldn't be surprised if Waianae alumni--especially guys in their 60s, like myself--beat a path to the Waianae AD's office. Waianae alumni in their 60s were at that school when they were kicking every other school's butt (except Kamehameha's, which at that time was also Kick-Butt City in football). I think the alumni would insist that Waianae continue to take its chances in Open, rather than drop to D1.
Here the thing. Waianae played 5 open team losing all 5 with a combine score of 21 points scored and 204 given.
They lost 2 out of 3 games playing Division
1 teams. So it's time to work on building the team. Time to build pride and keep the westside kids home. Kapolei,Mililani and Campbell poached from Waianae.

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Re: All OIA OPEN State Championship. Sign of Things to Come

Post by rrforlifebaby »

"Kahuku and Mililani are getting transfers and the OIA schools might be on the rise in the Open.

That success will eventually cause them to fade like the ILH schools seem to be.They might stock up on so many good players that there won’t be enough playing time to go around and then they might see their talent get thinned out like St.Louis has seen.Maybe St.Louis will become a destination again. Every thing seems to go in cycles."

This is a very good point by "unpaid". Times are changing, but people already forget that BIG RED has more the most part and will continue to field teams with a huge majority of home grown kids...and by home grown, I'm also including kids like A. Manutai whose dad is a former Red Raider and was a beast on D. If kids want to transfer North, that's cool and exciting, but unlike York, Big Red doesn't rely on transfers to keep the program relevant. As a public school, we understand and you all know that there are years where we don't have enough talent...it is what it is.

But, regardless of how you feel about York, this year's mililani squad was absolutely loaded, and is a testament to the talent here in Hawaii. St Louis was the standard bearer and will probably be again; they did beat up on a bunch of talented mainland schools. The nation found out that now there are other schools capable of competing on a national level. I believe mililani matches up pretty well with St John Boscoe; Mater Dei on the other hand is a completely different animal.

RRFL!!

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Re: All OIA OPEN State Championship. Sign of Things to Come

Post by Keoki1959 »

GentlemanOfTheLou wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:00 pm
unpaid wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2023 5:44 am Players who have the talent to play in college,maybe the NFL for the select few,still have to get enough playing time to put together a good video to send out to colleges.

The days where St.Louis would have 300 kids in their football programs are over.Players realize every season counts,so they are not waiting until their senior year to start in a stacked program and count on that one year of highlights to get themselves noticed. Injuries,and especially Covid have made it very clear that nothing is guaranteed. You are in high school for four years but that doesn’t mean you will play all four years,so the players have to find a way to get on the field early and often.

So,they transfer.

Kahuku and Mililani are getting transfers and the OIA schools might be on the rise in the Open.

That success will eventually cause them to fade like the ILH schools seem to be.They might stock up on so many good players that there won’t be enough playing time to go around and then they might see their talent get thinned out like St.Louis has seen.Maybe St.Louis will become a destination again. Every thing seems to go in cycles.

Legally, I don’t think transfers will ever be banned,but I do think the current transfer policy of the OIA needs to be tweaked a little.Aiea lost almost a third of their squad in the last offseason and Kapolei lost around ten good players,although they have way more numbers than Aiea. These two teams were impacted negatively and disproportionately compared to other schools in the state. That should concern the admins at the OIA offices. I think you would have to see mass exoduses from two more schools this upcoming off season before the OIA would think there is a problem.
I agree with you on that, it's truly all a cycle, in fact I heard that a Kahuku QB transferred to Saint Louis because of the fact that Kahuku was just too stacked(Don't know how he'll fare out though...). Once the three main OIA schools get too stacked for all the talent to go there, they start spreading out all over again. Makes the chances of every school winning a state championship more even.
remeber this post in 2010 ?

People Need to STOP CRYING about TRANSFERS
Post by saynotomercs » Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:20 am

Student-Athletes that attended SAINT LOUIS and left from graduating classes 2005-2007:

Lofa Liilii (Aiea) 2007
Sam Fehoko (Farrington) 2007
Whitley Fehoko (Farrington) 2006
Jon Santiago (Kapolei) 2006
John Estores (Moanalua) 2006
Josh Wily (Kahuku) 2006
Micah Wily (Kahuku) 2006
Kaleo Spallone (Kahuku) 2006
Steven Pratt (Kaiser) 2005
Shannon Wise (Kaiser) 2005
Bryson Vivas (Kamehameha) 2006
Nick Tepea (Kailua) 2006
Bryce Kalauokaaea (Castle) 2006
Ikaika Mahoe (Kam-HI) 2006
Sene Ma’afala (Mililani) 2005
Austen Benito (Waipahu) 2005
Russell Wantowski (Radford) 2006
Mikah Pada (Kahuku/Kealakehe) 2005
Kerstan Ho (Roosevelt) 2006
Ikaika Rapozo (Kaimuki) 2006
La’auli Fonoti (Kahuku) 2005
Andre Agbayani (Kaimuki) 2005
Kimo Kennedy (Kaiser) 2005
Hapaki Nakamura (Kailua) 2005
David Rivers (Mililani) 2007
John Samia (Mainland) 2005
Tyson Marks (Kamehameha) 2005
Tri Bourne (AOP) 2007
Michael Vierra (Kaimuki) 2006
Gary Mata (Waimea) 2005
Jordan Apduhan (Mililani) 2006


I call this period "The Great Exodus" in Saint Louis athletic history. It's probably one of the greatest losses of football talent in the history of the high school game, let alone the history of the state. I understand the 'mining' that has and is taking place all over Oahu, but nothing, absolutely nothing can compare to the depletion that took place during these three years. So when we all start complaining about who recruited who where, let's just remember that it's part of the game. No disrespect to the Crusaders that represented from 2004-2006. But they probably would have memories of being a state champion.

*In 2005 (c/o 2006) the defense could have featured all of these guys TOGETHER:
DL: Kamalu Umu, Elliot Purcell, Scott Smith, Sam Fehoko, Ikaika Mahoe, Michael Vierra, David Rivers, Loren Abiva, Solomana Aigamaua
LB: Jared Silva, Russell Wantowski, Josh Wily, Micah Wily, Jacob Barit, Jordan Alencastre
DB: Manoa Latu, Kaleo Spallone, Jeff Kahler, Kale Kwak, Allen Pimenta, Nick Tepea

*The 2005 (c/o 2006) receiving core could have looked like this:
WR Cameron Bayne-SB Jon Santiago -SB John Estores-WR Lofa Liilii

*I don't think Ho and Bourne ever played football, but both were standouts in basketball and volleyball respectively.

I apologize if I missed anybody.
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Re: All OIA OPEN State Championship. Sign of Things to Come

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The question is: Does a school HAVE to RECRUIT in this day and age? I'm an old fart in his 60s who tends to live in the past. I wish things could go back to how they were in the mid-'70s, when I was in high school. As a relatively newer school, Mililani High didn't even have its first graduating class until '77. (I mentioned Mililani High because they really probably had the best team this year.) I'm kind of tired of the high-stakes recruiting that goes-on today; I'm also tired of how players seem to be switching schools just about as often as girls discard their feminine-hygiene products. High school football today almost seems mercenary, in some respects. Players seem like nothing more than commodities, to be sold to the highest bidder. As far as the OIA schools are concerned, I long for the days in the mid-'70s when players simply played for whichever school served their geographic area, you know? I think there's something unstable and almost unhealthy about the way players seem to be constantly shuttling between different schools today.

Thanks for letting this old fart vent; thanks for letting me bemoan the demise of what I think was the golden era of high school football in Hawaii: The mid-'70s. I miss almost everything about those days.

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Re: All OIA OPEN State Championship. Sign of Things to Come

Post by ChadFukuoka »

HS Football Fanatic wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 11:37 am The question is: Does a school HAVE to RECRUIT in this day and age? I'm an old fart in his 60s who tends to live in the past. I wish things could go back to how they were in the mid-'70s, when I was in high school. As a relatively newer school, Mililani High didn't even have its first graduating class until '77. (I mentioned Mililani High because they really probably had the best team this year.) I'm kind of tired of the high-stakes recruiting that goes-on today; I'm also tired of how players seem to be switching schools just about as often as girls discard their feminine-hygiene products. High school football today almost seems mercenary, in some respects. Players seem like nothing more than commodities, to be sold to the highest bidder. As far as the OIA schools are concerned, I long for the days in the mid-'70s when players simply played for whichever school served their geographic area, you know? I think there's something unstable and almost unhealthy about the way players seem to be constantly shuttling between different schools today.

Thanks for letting this old fart vent; thanks for letting me bemoan the demise of what I think was the golden era of high school football in Hawaii: The mid-'70s. I miss almost everything about those days.
You're against classification and having different levels of divisions. Do you think that caused players from smaller schools to start transferring out to bigger schools if they had the talent? Or are those things unrelated?

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