History repeats itself?

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poidog
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History repeats itself?

Post by poidog »

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I wasn't able to repost that because it was in a locked thread, but boy does that seem prophetic with everything going on now...

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Re: History repeats itself?

Post by Egonator »

I mean maybe its a cause for concern but there are over 100 guys on a football roster and it's impossible to keep every player happy. I heard the same things about Rolovich and June Jones and those are two coaches that Hawaii fans have fond memories of.

Having a losing season causes tension both within the fan base and in the locker room. Ill give Graham the benefit of the doubt for now but if things don't improve...

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Re: History repeats itself?

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Egonator wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:23 pm
Having a losing season causes tension both within the fan base and in the locker room. Ill give Graham the benefit of the doubt for now but if things don't improve...
I am a Chow fan, no shame. If we were to debate over all-you-can-eat sushi place, we would be doing more eating than talking because at the end of the day, it's about W vs L. Hard to defend Norm Chow.

TG hasn't done all that bad when you think about it.

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Re: History repeats itself?

Post by kapakahi »

cabanalane wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:33 pm
Egonator wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:23 pm
Having a losing season causes tension both within the fan base and in the locker room. Ill give Graham the benefit of the doubt for now but if things don't improve...
I am a Chow fan, no shame. If we were to debate over all-you-can-eat sushi place, we would be doing more eating than talking because at the end of the day, it's about W vs L. Hard to defend Norm Chow.

TG hasn't done all that bad when you think about it.
It's not always about wins & losses in any given season (or even over a few seasons) but also about the direction that the program is trending going forward....which impacts recruiting, fan support & attendance as well as booster donations.

ASU recognized this trend direction even with TG's last season there in 2017 being an overall 7-6 winning season (with a 6-3 Pac-12 Conference record & a bowl game appearance) AND a 46 - 32 overall winning record over 6 seasons (with a 31-23 overall Pac-12 Conference winning record & 5 bowl game appearances). The big difference here is that ASU could afford to buy out TG's contract whereas UH cannot. https://twitter.com/c_shimabuku/status/1466220027183460358

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Re: History repeats itself?

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https://twitter.com/ESPNHonolulu/status/1466566364890419201 good stuff here, but those people who still don't think that Hawaii ties are necessary to be a successful coach here won't want to hear it...

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Re: History repeats itself?

Post by Egonator »

cabanalane wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:33 pm
Egonator wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:23 pm
Having a losing season causes tension both within the fan base and in the locker room. Ill give Graham the benefit of the doubt for now but if things don't improve...
I am a Chow fan, no shame. If we were to debate over all-you-can-eat sushi place, we would be doing more eating than talking because at the end of the day, it's about W vs L. Hard to defend Norm Chow.

TG hasn't done all that bad when you think about it.
Ay I was a Chow fan too! haha. I was an assistant for him. The team actually had good chemistry despite the losing. It was only until the final weeks leading up to his firing did the team give up but I remember especially in 2014 that they fought hard for one another (which is why they rarely got blown out that year despite being 4-9)

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Re: History repeats itself?

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Alright...I'm not a TG fanboy, but I'm also not a hater. Most of what has been posted here is hearsay. We've got an experienced head coach...in a small pond. Of course the small frogs are gonna hate. (It's not our fault...the big frog makes us feel unwelcome). Nonsense. We are 6-7 because we played two good Pac12 schools to start the season. Our starting QB got injured mid-season and the back-up wasn't ready to start. We've also got a newb OC. He's not terrible...just green. We gotta work with what we got...and what we got ain't that great. We lost some close games to really good teams. We also had two signature wins: wins we were supposed to lose. Heck, the close games we lost were games we were supposed to lose. Even the favorable spread at UNLV was low because it was a road game--we were expected to win but only by a small margin.

Tod Graham is the #3 all-time winning-est coach at ASU with a record of 78-46. Has anyone considered that maybe the Sun Devils are just a mediocre team, with a lot of money, aspiring to greatness? (Kinda like SMU and Texas.)

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Re: History repeats itself?

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Re: History repeats itself?

Post by shrek2 »

That's an interesting article on the MWC website and it's interesting to note what I believe to be the reporter's paraphrase or opinion.
The person who should be taking the brunt of this is AD Dave Matlin because he hired Todd Graham knowing that Arizona State was willing to pay him $12.8 million to get rid of him and let him bring on a staff of “yes men” including the ever incompetent Bo Graham.
I like the Rich Miano take in the podcast as he does look at possibilities for the light at the end of the tunnel after pointing out the problems.

On second thought about this, the Hawaii Bowl will be a nationally televised game. The ESPN broadcasters can either sink or allow the Graham boat to float. If something isn't done in helping Bo, Bo's future is definitely sunk to never-neverland. Graham's success in life and his future despite his fortune depends on how he can fix the sinking ship.

Maybe UH needs to send the Grahams to the Dale Carnegie "How to make friends and influence people" class.

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Re: History repeats itself?

Post by cabanalane »

I'll take the counter point. Is it a "sinking ship" or dropping dead weight?

If Hawaii wins the Hawaii Bowl, we will forget all about this next season. And know who the starting QB is (CC who?)

Fans want a coach that will produce a good result. We got that. The AD made the right decision if we just look at the results. Way better than Norm Chow. Two straight Bowl appearances. Recall June June's sexual harassment case. UH tried to cover that up. TG is just coaching football. Some players got mad.

I really don't see why people are asking for his job. Fired Chow came at year 2, why are we "wanting" TG to leave?

IMO, TG will leave Hawaii one day soon. He is one offer away from packing everything up. Then what would UH do? At one point UH needed TG, and TG needed UH. I think the balance has changed. Give TG more time, those who wanted out is out. Everyone else is in. Part of me is looking forward to Year 3, and what TG can do.

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Re: History repeats itself?

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cabanalane wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:25 pm I'll take the counter point. Is it a "sinking ship" or dropping dead weight?

If Hawaii wins the Hawaii Bowl, we will forget all about this next season. And know who the starting QB is (CC who?)

Fans want a coach that will produce a good result. We got that. The AD made the right decision if we just look at the results. Way better than Norm Chow. Two straight Bowl appearances. Recall June June's sexual harassment case. UH tried to cover that up. TG is just coaching football. Some players got mad.

I really don't see why people are asking for his job. Fired Chow came at year 2, why are we "wanting" TG to leave?

IMO, TG will leave Hawaii one day soon. He is one offer away from packing everything up. Then what would UH do? At one point UH needed TG, and TG needed UH. I think the balance has changed. Give TG more time, those who wanted out is out. Everyone else is in. Part of me is looking forward to Year 3, and what TG can do.
The starting QB, starting RB, and starting CB are now "dead weight".

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Re: History repeats itself?

Post by kapakahi »

"Live Aloha" and "Pride Rock" are definitely not in the coaching vocabulary.....'cuz must be "negative things"....since
Coach already knows that he's "doing things the right way". https://twitter.com/AHoshidaSports/status/1466866100566573056
Last edited by kapakahi on Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: History repeats itself?

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First step is to admit there’s a problem. Old school tactics are not for everyone. Part of leadership is reading the room. I’ve lead many teams in my life and each group was unique. Adjusting as a leader takes maturity. Be humble TG, time for you to learn from your team. It’s totally cool to make mistakes…don’t be like Brandon and blame others for your failures. Own it, fix it, or simply leave.

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Re: History repeats itself?

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202Warrior wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:22 pm First step is to admit there’s a problem. Old school tactics are not for everyone. Part of leadership is reading the room. I’ve lead many teams in my life and each group was unique. Adjusting as a leader takes maturity. Be humble TG, time for you to learn from your team. It’s totally cool to make mistakes…don’t be like Brandon and blame others for your failures. Own it, fix it, or simply leave.
Who is Brandon? Graham has never been a failure. Todd Graham has been a winning coach at every school he has coached over the last 14 years: Rice, Tulsa, Pittsburgh, Arizona State, and now Hawaii. His overall record is 106 and 72...that's 60%! What was the mistake he made? Graham isn't Rolovich. The babies cry: I want pride-rock and ohana. Well, daddy doesn't speak that language. Bad daddy?

You mean you LED many teams. Okay...Urban Meyer... Graham is not Lincoln Riley or Scott Frost. He's also not Nick Saban or Ed Ogeron. Head coaches meet and fall-short-of expectations all the time. This coach has delivered in these trying times. Hawaii does not have a losing record. I see an offense and defense that has met expectations. We put up a fight but we didn't win enough. The two notable departures were injured and missed games this year. Winning a road game in a spectacular fashion that we were supposed to lose was a great way to finish off a difficult season.

Should Hawaii beat Memphis in the Hawaii Bowl? I think so. We overwhelmed currently ranked #21 Houston in a bowl last year. We'll make a good show of it again this year. I hope the distressed players in the TP give respect to the PROGRAM that floated them a SCHOLARSHIP these past few years.

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Re: History repeats itself?

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kapakahi wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:10 pm "Live Aloha" and "Pride Rock" are definitely not in the coaching vocabulary.....'cuz must be "negative things"....since
Coach already knows that he's "doing things the right way". https://twitter.com/AHoshidaSports/status/1466866100566573056
To be fair, when he says he doesn’t do those things, he means social media. He is not going to be negative in the media —-Any media.
This response is 100% professional and has nothing to do with Aloha or pride rock. And for players that leave pride rock, they have no say in pride rock. They mainland rock. Good luck to them. They still one of us. But they not on our team.

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