Updated: Ending my rant about Covid restrictions (for now)

Share your news and views about University of Hawaii Warrior Football
poidog
*True Sports Fan*
*True Sports Fan*
Posts: 6219
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:15 pm

Re: Failed nanny state game

Post by poidog »

UnBiasFan wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 6:59 am
RedZone wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:37 pm Could be that people who used to go bought PPV so that they could watch at home.
To put in perspective how far we have fallen, we used to have to get to the stadium hours early. And thousands of cars filled the lot.

Now directly as a result of our government incompetence we have no stadium. So we move to the practice field. And to kick off life at the practice field there is no tailgating and just water. And no scientific reason vaccinated people can’t just have a regular game experience like in other states that have world class universities and far more brain power than we will ever have.

I know local culture is don’t say bad things about authority because we are on a plantation. But I am just laying out the truth as I see it. I suspect that a large part of the public sees what I am seeing. And I am no nutcase, or Trump guy, or anti-Vax guy, or what ever label they like to throw to deflect. If I got it wrong, well my post can be ignored or deleted.
The problem with your thinking is that you are picking a couple of potential reasons and acting as if that they are obviously THE ONLY REASONS. The things you pointed out can be 100% accurate, yet only account for a portion of why the game wasn't a sellout. Let's go through a list of some reasons, just for the heck of it:

1. No kids under 12 because of vaccination requirements - this not only keeps kids away, but also parents. This is the most impactful reason based on logic. Still, they still drew over 56% capacity with a very large portion of ticket buyers ineligible to attend the game.
2. Price - this is the second most obvious reason, and it is intentional. the average cost of attendance per game is less if you buy season tickets, and the pricing structure is set up to motivate people to buy season tickets (my season tickets are $250, but I would pay $300 if I bought a ticket for each game). Also, individual game tickets are not expected to be available under normal circumstances because they will likely sell out the season tickets under normal circumstances. Should they have reduced ticket prices for this game because of the circumstances? Probably, but they didn't.
3. Team performance - If a team is hot, indvidual game sales will be up. If a team is not doing well, sales will be down. this is not a new thing, nor is it specific to the pandemic or to the 2021 season (Or to Hawaii). this is why you try to sell as many season tickets as possible, because you just don't know. Do low individual sales in the back half of a season where the team is underperforming mean that people have given up on the program? not at all. but it might mean that they gave up on the season. It happens.
4. COVID restrictions - between the masks, proof of vaccination, and the limit on concessions, there are too many caveats for some to feel the price and effort is worth it at the moment. Perhaps some will have "given up" but others will just wait until next season.
5. COVID fears - there are still a good amount of people who are not comfortable being around large crowds and are not ready to attend a sporting event like this because they feel like it is still too soon.
6. Venue uncertainty - There are some who didn't go to the game because they were weary of the venue change and were worried about things like finding parking or were just not willing to make the longer drive if they were coming from the west side. It is unfortunate, because parking was easy and there wasn't much traffic. The crowd for a football game is not larger than a sellout crowd for volleyball or basketball, yet it was made it to be a logistical challenge by some.
7. last-minute schedule change - tickets went on sale the week of the game, and for anyone who was not on the season ticket list they were only able to buy tickets 2 days before. a lot of people already had other plans or just couldn't make it happen on such short notice. If you log on to look for tickets for the last home game, there seem to already be more tickets sold with a week and a half to go. Throw in that the game was an early start as well. Selling 9000 tickets under circumstances in 4 days is just difficult.
8. Wait and see - there are a lot of people that just need to wait and see how things go, and need to be reassured by people who attended the first full-capacity game at a new venue during covid that it is worth doing and not too inconvenient.

There are a lot of reasons. You can choose to focus in on one or two or whatever if you want, but in doing so you should also acknowledge that it may be more of a reflection of your own reasons than an indicator of what everyone else is thinking and feeling. You are likely overemphasizing the "stupid government" reason and I may be underemphasizing it. I think if people really care about solving problems and making this thing better, it is important to not lose persective. if it is just venting for venting's sake, then vent away, I guess.

User avatar
cabanalane
All-American
All-American
Posts: 1989
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:17 pm
Location: I stay on the mainland

Re: Failed nanny state game

Post by cabanalane »

My3Cats wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 8:47 am I would attribute some of the decline in attendance to the loss of the saimin sipper generation. They were the true die hard fans.
I can picture that in my head. Love this term to describe them.

EITSwarrior
Hall of famer
Hall of famer
Posts: 2467
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:40 pm

Re: Failed nanny state game

Post by EITSwarrior »

poidog wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 10:08 am
UnBiasFan wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 6:59 am
RedZone wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:37 pm Could be that people who used to go bought PPV so that they could watch at home.
To put in perspective how far we have fallen, we used to have to get to the stadium hours early. And thousands of cars filled the lot.

Now directly as a result of our government incompetence we have no stadium. So we move to the practice field. And to kick off life at the practice field there is no tailgating and just water. And no scientific reason vaccinated people can’t just have a regular game experience like in other states that have world class universities and far more brain power than we will ever have.

I know local culture is don’t say bad things about authority because we are on a plantation. But I am just laying out the truth as I see it. I suspect that a large part of the public sees what I am seeing. And I am no nutcase, or Trump guy, or anti-Vax guy, or what ever label they like to throw to deflect. If I got it wrong, well my post can be ignored or deleted.
The problem with your thinking is that you are picking a couple of potential reasons and acting as if that they are obviously THE ONLY REASONS. The things you pointed out can be 100% accurate, yet only account for a portion of why the game wasn't a sellout. Let's go through a list of some reasons, just for the heck of it:

1. No kids under 12 because of vaccination requirements - this not only keeps kids away, but also parents. This is the most impactful reason based on logic. Still, they still drew over 56% capacity with a very large portion of ticket buyers ineligible to attend the game.
2. Price - this is the second most obvious reason, and it is intentional. the average cost of attendance per game is less if you buy season tickets, and the pricing structure is set up to motivate people to buy season tickets (my season tickets are $250, but I would pay $300 if I bought a ticket for each game). Also, individual game tickets are not expected to be available under normal circumstances because they will likely sell out the season tickets under normal circumstances. Should they have reduced ticket prices for this game because of the circumstances? Probably, but they didn't.
3. Team performance - If a team is hot, indvidual game sales will be up. If a team is not doing well, sales will be down. this is not a new thing, nor is it specific to the pandemic or to the 2021 season (Or to Hawaii). this is why you try to sell as many season tickets as possible, because you just don't know. Do low individual sales in the back half of a season where the team is underperforming mean that people have given up on the program? not at all. but it might mean that they gave up on the season. It happens.
4. COVID restrictions - between the masks, proof of vaccination, and the limit on concessions, there are too many caveats for some to feel the price and effort is worth it at the moment. Perhaps some will have "given up" but others will just wait until next season.
5. COVID fears - there are still a good amount of people who are not comfortable being around large crowds and are not ready to attend a sporting event like this because they feel like it is still too soon.
6. Venue uncertainty - There are some who didn't go to the game because they were weary of the venue change and were worried about things like finding parking or were just not willing to make the longer drive if they were coming from the west side. It is unfortunate, because parking was easy and there wasn't much traffic. The crowd for a football game is not larger than a sellout crowd for volleyball or basketball, yet it was made it to be a logistical challenge by some.
7. last-minute schedule change - tickets went on sale the week of the game, and for anyone who was not on the season ticket list they were only able to buy tickets 2 days before. a lot of people already had other plans or just couldn't make it happen on such short notice. If you log on to look for tickets for the last home game, there seem to already be more tickets sold with a week and a half to go. Throw in that the game was an early start as well. Selling 9000 tickets under circumstances in 4 days is just difficult.
8. Wait and see - there are a lot of people that just need to wait and see how things go, and need to be reassured by people who attended the first full-capacity game at a new venue during covid that it is worth doing and not too inconvenient.

There are a lot of reasons. You can choose to focus in on one or two or whatever if you want, but in doing so you should also acknowledge that it may be more of a reflection of your own reasons than an indicator of what everyone else is thinking and feeling. You are likely overemphasizing the "stupid government" reason and I may be underemphasizing it. I think if people really care about solving problems and making this thing better, it is important to not lose persective. if it is just venting for venting's sake, then vent away, I guess.
Too much logic in points haha. But seriously I agree with all points.

UnBiasFan
All-American
All-American
Posts: 1724
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:28 am

Re: Failed nanny state ga

Post by UnBiasFan »

I don’t disagree with the points made. However, what continues to be disturbing is the stadium requirements are not in line with any other state’s requirements. In other words, they make up their own requirements that are out of whack. Hence, the rant.

And the only reason we don’t get an outcry in my opinion for failed decisions is plantation culture. But heck, I have known that for years and it hasn’t caused me to want live somewhere else. I have other more important priorities than a football program

User avatar
SundayJam
*True Sports Fan*
*True Sports Fan*
Posts: 7398
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:51 pm
Location: Bangkok

Re: Failed nanny state ga

Post by SundayJam »

UnBiasFan wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 6:43 am I don’t disagree with the points made. However, what continues to be disturbing is the stadium requirements are not in line with any other state’s requirements. In other words, they make up their own requirements that are out of whack. Hence, the rant.

And the only reason we don’t get an outcry in my opinion for failed decisions is plantation culture. But heck, I have known that for years and it hasn’t caused me to want live somewhere else. I have other more important priorities than a football program
I lived most of my life in Hawaii. I never knew anyone who actually worked on a plantation. Well, I knew an Indian botanist developing genetic and hydroponic technology for the 'plantations' in the 80's. This whole notion of exploitation is a little odd. Hawaii has fostered world leaders like Dr. Sun Yatsen and Barrack Obama. The original plantation workers' families assimilated: they became people like Senator Daniel Inouye. The earliest slogan I can recall from Hawaii was, Lucky You Live Hawaii. We're a backwater but not backwards. JMHO.

poidog
*True Sports Fan*
*True Sports Fan*
Posts: 6219
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:15 pm

Re: Failed nanny state ga

Post by poidog »

UnBiasFan wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 6:43 am I don’t disagree with the points made. However, what continues to be disturbing is the stadium requirements are not in line with any other state’s requirements. In other words, they make up their own requirements that are out of whack. Hence, the rant.

And the only reason we don’t get an outcry in my opinion for failed decisions is plantation culture. But heck, I have known that for years and it hasn’t caused me to want live somewhere else. I have other more important priorities than a football program
I think for a lot of people that live here, they understand that living on a literal island comes with unique challenges and difficulties. If there was outcry about every thing worth crying about, we'd be doing nothing but crying all the time. football, covid restrictions, lack of affordable housing, homelessness, cost of living, traffic, etc etc etc etc. I think for a lot of people, they realize that shaking their fist and yelling at the sky doesn't really do anything and are just soldiering on the best they can until things get better. My mom worked in the cannery, not a plantation.

if you are going to compare our covid restrictions to other states, you also have to compare our ability to withstand a mass outbreak to other states as well. Things got pretty dicey in August and September, especially on Maui and Big Island. health care officials were demanding that the state do more, while citizens were demanding that they do less. The state has probably taken too long to reduce restrictions and/or are not executing them well, but I really don't think the restrictions are there for "no reason". You keep pointing out that there's no scientific fact for "just water" making any sense as a restriction, but it has nothing to do with "just water" and everything to do with reducing the need to remove your mask while in a situation where you are in a potentially full stadium and not socially distancing. the "just water" part is a compromise because it is unreasonable to ask 9000 people to not consume even water for 4 hours, though that is what the rule would be if the state had their way. it is simply a way for the state to take the baby step of allowing a non-socially distanced event while working to reduce the risk. It is a compromise to appease both sides, yet it satisfies none. That's what governing is, a lot of times. Some people understand that there's a process to it, and others don't. this isn't Florida where you can just "get it out of the way" and take on thousands of hospitalizations and tens of thousands of infections a day because you have a lot of land and a lot of hospitals and a lot of nurses and people can drive to the next state to get to a hospital when necessary.

Personally, I think not allowing concession sales and the mask requirement for a fully vaccinated stadium is too much, but there are likely hospital administrators who feel differently and think that 9000 closely-grouped people is a potential for a covid cluster, regardless of circumstance because even if only 0.1% of attendees require hospitalization, that's 9 too much for an overloaded ICU supply (which was the situation 2 months ago).

open-air restaurants in Hawaii can operate without social distancing or masks, starting today. progress is slow, but it's still progress.

UnBiasFan
All-American
All-American
Posts: 1724
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:28 am

Re: Failed nanny state ga

Post by UnBiasFan »

poidog wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:24 am
UnBiasFan wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 6:43 am I don’t disagree with the points made. However, what continues to be disturbing is the stadium requirements are not in line with any other state’s requirements. In other words, they make up their own requirements that are out of whack. Hence, the rant.

And the only reason we don’t get an outcry in my opinion for failed decisions is plantation culture. But heck, I have known that for years and it hasn’t caused me to want live somewhere else. I have other more important priorities than a football program
I think for a lot of people that live here, they understand that living on a literal island comes with unique challenges and difficulties. If there was outcry about every thing worth crying about, we'd be doing nothing but crying all the time. football, covid restrictions, lack of affordable housing, homelessness, cost of living, traffic, etc etc etc etc. I think for a lot of people, they realize that shaking their fist and yelling at the sky doesn't really do anything and are just soldiering on the best they can until things get better. My mom worked in the cannery, not a plantation.

if you are going to compare our covid restrictions to other states, you also have to compare our ability to withstand a mass outbreak to other states as well. Things got pretty dicey in August and September, especially on Maui and Big Island. health care officials were demanding that the state do more, while citizens were demanding that they do less. The state has probably taken too long to reduce restrictions and/or are not executing them well, but I really don't think the restrictions are there for "no reason". You keep pointing out that there's no scientific fact for "just water" making any sense as a restriction, but it has nothing to do with "just water" and everything to do with reducing the need to remove your mask while in a situation where you are in a potentially full stadium and not socially distancing. the "just water" part is a compromise because it is unreasonable to ask 9000 people to not consume even water for 4 hours, though that is what the rule would be if the state had their way. it is simply a way for the state to take the baby step of allowing a non-socially distanced event while working to reduce the risk. It is a compromise to appease both sides, yet it satisfies none. That's what governing is, a lot of times. Some people understand that there's a process to it, and others don't. this isn't Florida where you can just "get it out of the way" and take on thousands of hospitalizations and tens of thousands of infections a day because you have a lot of land and a lot of hospitals and a lot of nurses and people can drive to the next state to get to a hospital when necessary.

Personally, I think not allowing concession sales and the mask requirement for a fully vaccinated stadium is too much, but there are likely hospital administrators who feel differently and think that 9000 closely-grouped people is a potential for a covid cluster, regardless of circumstance because even if only 0.1% of attendees require hospitalization, that's 9 too much for an overloaded ICU supply (which was the situation 2 months ago).

open-air restaurants in Hawaii can operate without social distancing or masks, starting today. progress is slow, but it's still progress.
All good points and I am ready to bury this discussion. This season is pretty much done as far as any thought that it could get to normal. Other places got to normal a year ahead of us. That’s nothing new. I am ready to focus on the three great games left. And plan on seeing a lot of football at Ching field next year.

UnBiasFan
All-American
All-American
Posts: 1724
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:28 am

Re: Failed nanny state ga

Post by UnBiasFan »

poidog wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:24 am
UnBiasFan wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 6:43 am I don’t disagree with the points made. However, what continues to be disturbing is the stadium requirements are not in line with any other state’s requirements. In other words, they make up their own requirements that are out of whack. Hence, the rant.

And the only reason we don’t get an outcry in my opinion for failed decisions is plantation culture. But heck, I have known that for years and it hasn’t caused me to want live somewhere else. I have other more important priorities than a football program
I think for a lot of people that live here, they understand that living on a literal island comes with unique challenges and difficulties. If there was outcry about every thing worth crying about, we'd be doing nothing but crying all the time. football, covid restrictions, lack of affordable housing, homelessness, cost of living, traffic, etc etc etc etc. I think for a lot of people, they realize that shaking their fist and yelling at the sky doesn't really do anything and are just soldiering on the best they can until things get better. My mom worked in the cannery, not a plantation.

if you are going to compare our covid restrictions to other states, you also have to compare our ability to withstand a mass outbreak to other states as well. Things got pretty dicey in August and September, especially on Maui and Big Island. health care officials were demanding that the state do more, while citizens were demanding that they do less. The state has probably taken too long to reduce restrictions and/or are not executing them well, but I really don't think the restrictions are there for "no reason". You keep pointing out that there's no scientific fact for "just water" making any sense as a restriction, but it has nothing to do with "just water" and everything to do with reducing the need to remove your mask while in a situation where you are in a potentially full stadium and not socially distancing. the "just water" part is a compromise because it is unreasonable to ask 9000 people to not consume even water for 4 hours, though that is what the rule would be if the state had their way. it is simply a way for the state to take the baby step of allowing a non-socially distanced event while working to reduce the risk. It is a compromise to appease both sides, yet it satisfies none. That's what governing is, a lot of times. Some people understand that there's a process to it, and others don't. this isn't Florida where you can just "get it out of the way" and take on thousands of hospitalizations and tens of thousands of infections a day because you have a lot of land and a lot of hospitals and a lot of nurses and people can drive to the next state to get to a hospital when necessary.

Personally, I think not allowing concession sales and the mask requirement for a fully vaccinated stadium is too much, but there are likely hospital administrators who feel differently and think that 9000 closely-grouped people is a potential for a covid cluster, regardless of circumstance because even if only 0.1% of attendees require hospitalization, that's 9 too much for an overloaded ICU supply (which was the situation 2 months ago).

open-air restaurants in Hawaii can operate without social distancing or masks, starting today. progress is slow, but it's still progress.
All good points and I am ready to bury this discussion. This season is pretty much done as far as any thought that it could get to normal. Other places got to normal a year ahead of us. But ok. On the bright side, everyone I know except for kids got VAX’d as soon as able. And fortunately no one ended in the hospital. But I understand that we got to take care of those that didn’t get the message until their family members became ill and some died. This is a very sad event because so many deaths were avoidable. I can remember seeing groups at Mililani cemetery unmasked and in large groups in violation of all restrictions at the time. You know those groups that if you came up and talked to them about this while they are “honoring” their family you might be putting yourself in danger. So, sometimes we let them do what they going to do until they learn the hard way. But innocent people do pay for ignorance. And we didn’t need these kind crowds loitering in any parking lots. So, while I disagree on the extent of restrictions for all those that got VAX’d (everyone in the stadium), I don’t fault the intent.

I am ready to focus on the three great games left. And we need positive energy for this. And I plan on seeing a lot of football at Ching field next year.

Post Reply