Army-Navy Option

[cabanalane]

Both Kenny Niumatalolo and Army's head coach Jeff Monken stem from Paul Johnson's triple option tree. Both of them were GAs at UH. Jeff Monken's graduate degrees was from UH. Both followed Johnson through other Georgia and Navy schools. Paul Johnson raised them to be men.

So I get it why they run the Triple Option, it's all they know.

My question is, is it just a coincident that both military academies run the Option?

Wait, actually Air Force runs the Option too, correct?

One would say "discipline". But that's not exactly true as all offensive systems requires discipline. They coach that no matter what system.

[Irse]

I think they can get by with smaller and less talented players and still compete. Kind of like the RnS. The service academies will not get the cream of the crop in terms of recruits so they got to find the offense that will best fit the types of athletes they can get.

I didn't know the Army HC was at UH.

[My3Cats]

Several years back, I forget how long ago it was, Army switched from the triple option to a pro-style and got clobbered, as well has getting their head coach fired. Rich Ellerson (another former Rainbow player and coach) was then hired and he brought the triple option back. Irse is correct in that the service academies cannot compete for top tier talent or even physical size, so option offenses are their way of being able to compete. Can you imagine fitting someone 6-6 330 pounds into a jet fighter? Or how about on a submarine or helicopter crew?

[stranger808]

Several years back, I forget how long ago it was, Army switched from the triple option to a pro-style and got clobbered, as well has getting their head coach fired. Rich Ellerson (another former Rainbow player and coach) was then hired and he brought the triple option back. Irse is correct in that the service academies cannot compete for top tier talent or even physical size, so option offenses are their way of being able to compete. Can you imagine fitting someone 6-6 330 pounds into a jet fighter? Or how about on a submarine or helicopter crew?

Just like Chow who tried to make our offense the USC of the pacific. We can't get that kind of talent and depth to run a pro style O. We NEVER should have hired outside of the run and shoot fraternity. It's Hawaii's identity, we're known for it.

[EITSwarrior]

Several years back, I forget how long ago it was, Army switched from the triple option to a pro-style and got clobbered, as well has getting their head coach fired. Rich Ellerson (another former Rainbow player and coach) was then hired and he brought the triple option back. Irse is correct in that the service academies cannot compete for top tier talent or even physical size, so option offenses are their way of being able to compete. Can you imagine fitting someone 6-6 330 pounds into a jet fighter? Or how about on a submarine or helicopter crew?

Just like Chow who tried to make our offense the USC of the pacific. We can't get that kind of talent and depth to run a pro style O. We NEVER should have hired outside of the run and shoot fraternity. It's Hawaii's identity, we're known for it.

I think it COULD have worked with time. If Chow had changed the offense gradually to fit the players that were already here instead of trying to changing the offense overnight then maybe. But no, Chow was old man stubborn.

[Maui Boy in Alaska]

It was the old Air Force coach Fisher Deberry that started the triple option at the military universities. They ran the wishbone and later a version of the spread option and had a lot of success in the 80's and 90's. The late Dee Dowis was one of my all-time favorite college QB 87-89 at Air force.

But with Air force having the success that they did, this lead to Navy and later Army making the switch to running the triple option. Army, Navy, and Air force just can't recruit the size and talent to run the more traditional offense and running the option offense in it modern form has shown to be successful.

[BeatNavy]

Before DeBerry at AF there was Ken Hatfield.

[cabanalane]

Just like Chow who tried to make our offense the USC of the pacific. We can't get that kind of talent and depth to run a pro style O. We NEVER should have hired outside of the run and shoot fraternity. It's Hawaii's identity, we're known for it.

I think it COULD have worked with time. If Chow had changed the offense gradually to fit the players that were already here instead of trying to changing the offense overnight then maybe. But no, Chow was old man stubborn.

I was a Chow Supporter when he was hired, and thought the same thing. That UH was to be the USC (or UCLA) of the Pacific. Then when the first recruiting class came in, it was like "where is the beef?" The players didn't follow Chow to Hawaii. By the 2nd year, still no one was coming. The ship was going to sink.

[RedZone]

Bob Wagner brought the spread triple option to Hawaii. He felt that it would fit the kind of athletes we had here. Lineman here were smaller but explosive. What people don’t know is that he did have some run and shoot in his offense. He found an up and coming coach to run this offense. I remember the first time I saw them run this offense at the stadium I often lost sight of who had the ball. It was that good.

[Maui Boy in Alaska]

Ken Hatfield hired Fisher DeBerry and had a loosing record until he promoted DeBerry to OC.

Then they won back to back Bowl games. Hatfield then left Air Force and Air Force promoted DeBerry. Then DeBerry lead Air Force to two more Bowl wins for 4 straight.

[rodfather]

Bob Wagner brought the spread triple option to Hawaii. He felt that it would fit the kind of athletes we had here. Lineman here were smaller but explosive. What people don’t know is that he did have some run and shoot in his offense. He found an up and coming coach to run this offense. I remember the first time I saw them run this offense at the stadium I often lost sight of who had the ball. It was that good.

Years ago I found an old UH triple option playbook online. They had a couple of run and shoot plays that are a simplified version of Mouse Davis stuff. The difference, the triple option pass plays gave the WR two options on a pass play. Compare them to Mouse Davis' old USFL playbooks, the WRs have multiple routes on the option route.

As for Fisher DeBerry's stuff, very similar to Johnson's stuff but I think the difference was he used a TE.

[EITSwarrior]

Just like Chow who tried to make our offense the USC of the pacific. We can't get that kind of talent and depth to run a pro style O. We NEVER should have hired outside of the run and shoot fraternity. It's Hawaii's identity, we're known for it.

I think it COULD have worked with time. If Chow had changed the offense gradually to fit the players that were already here instead of trying to changing the offense overnight then maybe. But no, Chow was old man stubborn.

I was a Chow Supporter when he was hired, and thought the same thing. That UH was to be the USC (or UCLA) of the Pacific. Then when the first recruiting class came in, it was like "where is the beef?" The players didn't follow Chow to Hawaii. By the 2nd year, still no one was coming. The ship was going to sink.

I think Chow got the receivers to come, Kemp, Haynes and Kirkwood, but only Kemp really worked out here. Haynes, injured too much and Kirkwood transferred out. DSJ was the only RB that he recruited that really did much, and even that was under Rolo. QBs, he got Schroeder, well he had rough first year but he kinda balled out his last season. He got Graham and Wittek to transfer here, but they both flamed out and gave way to Woosley. So I think Chow got players that kinda fit the mold that he wanted, but couldn’t do much with them.

[BigWave96744]

I think they can get by with smaller and less talented players and still compete. Kind of like the RnS. The service academies will not get the cream of the crop in terms of recruits so they got to find the offense that will best fit the types of athletes they can get.

I didn't know the Army HC was at UH.

Many former Rainbow Warriors still keep in touch with him as he was a GA from 89-90 and earned his masters from Hawaii
https://goarmywestpoint.com/coaches.aspx?rc=434