Is the knock on Cordeiro or the offense?

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sarvicdar
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Is the knock on Cordeiro or the offense?

Post by sarvicdar »

Is the knock on Cordeiro or the offense?

I hear, see and feel fans frustration at watching Hawaii's passing offense this year. Who wants to watch their teams QB complete only 27/97 passes of 10 yards or more on the season? What's worse some of those passes were way off. It's either too high too low, in front of the receiver, behind the receiver and frequently the misses are like watching a dead duck fall from the sky.

The stats don't lie.

And my eyes see the truth and are unbiased.

On the season Cordeiro threw 23 passes of 20 yards or more to the right side and only completed three. Of the incompletions 3 passes were picked off. Take away the 400 yards he threw against New Mexico and he averaged 210 yards passing in the other 8 games. I'm not going to lie this is a huge drop off from past and is ugly to watch.

After Hawaii win over Houston, I listened in on 1420's fan phones. One would think the phone lines would light up like a Christmas Tree with well wishes instead the sentiment was what's wrong with Hawaii's offense, fire the OC, what's wrong with Cordeiro, and welcome to Chow ball. One caller asked if Cordeiro was tall enough to be a QB.

Is the burden on Cordeiro or the OC? Does Cordeiro have the arm strength and accuracy to complete the midrange and long passes that is needed to make this offense a success? Or is this vanilla offense/new offense tripping Cordeiro up?

I don't know.

I wish June Jones would answer. Somebody that's an expert at evaluating QB.

But what I do see, read and hear is lot of pent up frustration by fans that have watched Cordeiro this season. Even going back to last season Cordeiro's numbers in the run and shoot didn't exactly standout, like McDonald's. Which brings up the question if McDonald was leading this team this year (and a new offense) would the QB position be more productive? I think so. All I remember is seeing McDonald process the field quicker, release the ball quicker and have more of a rocket of an arm than Cordeiro. What was great about watching CM is that most of his misses were close and Cordeiro's was way off.

Below are the charts of McDonald and Cordeiro last season and Cordeiro's numbers this season. Hands down McDonald was the better QB.

It will be interesting to see what progress Cordeiro makes in the off season. But he needs to improve. At this point I more inclined to think that the OC is handicapped because of Cordeiro's limitation with accuracy on his midrange to long throws.


Cole McDonald in 2019

31/96-on passes 20+yards
70/114-on passes between 10-20 yards
203-268-on passes between 0-10 yards

326/511 63.8% 33 TD passes 14 INT QB rating of 147 pff.com grade-80

Chevan Cordeiro in 2019

6/21-on passes 20+yards
10/24-on passes between 10-20 yards
52/68-on passes between 0-10 yards

69/120 57.5% 8 TD passes 3 INT QB rating-137
pff.com grade-69

Chevan Cordeiro in 2020

10/57-on passes 20+yards
17/39-on passes 10-20 yards
98-126-on passes 0-10 yards

195/313 62.3% 14 TD 6 INT QB rating-129
pff.com grade of 65

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Re: Is the knock on Cordeiro or the offense?

Post by poidog »

the trick is to not put too much stock in the offense for this season. This season was a pretty solid attempt at bridging the gap between what Rolo ran and what Graham/Kinne want to run next season. They could have chucked the entire scheme/concepts/personnel from the previous staff and started over from scratch, but instead they tried to change things gradually (limited H-back usage early, fielding a TE late in the season) so that we wouldn't have a 2012 Norm Chow-like experience. They did this with no real Spring practice. The offense was good enough to win 5 games and nearly took down Boise. Hawaii "fans" need to chill.

Also, your stats need to include that last season Cordeiro was still a freshman.

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Re: Is the knock on Cordeiro or the offense?

Post by shrek2 »

The quarterback and the receivers have to have some sort of relationship on the field if not off the field. I don't know how good Cordeiro's skills are in doing that. The receivers just don't seem to want to fight for the ball or stretch out except for Jared Smart and Panoke. Also, it seems like Cordeiro's passes were off target on 10 yard routes. Seems like Turner has more of that "hey let's go out and play ball" charisma than Cordeiro has but I don't know what goes on beyond the field and interview. You gotta be a leader of sorts not just someone who can throw the ball and run when you play quarterback. Communication is so important. GJ does not seem like the type of guy to facilitate that communication process. He should be talking to the receivers as well as the QB.

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Re: Is the knock on Cordeiro or the offense?

Post by bigislandkurt »

Great post! Hopefully Cordeiro makes improvements over the coming off season. Coach TG loves CC, but I’m sure his expectation for his QB will rise greatly in the second year. Coach TG has been in the game long enough to know that he will not simply stick with CC if the offense cannot produce. CC’s legs have been the great neutralizer. Having #7 there with him has also been deadly. However, coach knows that his QB will need to stretch the field and make his passes. Especially the ones greater than 20 yds. CC appears to be well entrenched in his starting role. But he gonna need to make some strides in the off season.
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Re: Is the knock on Cordeiro or the offense?

Post by TheDuke »

poidog wrote: Sat Dec 26, 2020 3:41 pm the trick is to not put too much stock in the offense for this season. This season was a pretty solid attempt at bridging the gap between what Rolo ran and what Graham/Kinne want to run next season. They could have chucked the entire scheme/concepts/personnel from the previous staff and started over from scratch, but instead they tried to change things gradually (limited H-back usage early, fielding a TE late in the season) so that we wouldn't have a 2012 Norm Chow-like experience. They did this with no real Spring practice. The offense was good enough to win 5 games and nearly took down Boise. Hawaii "fans" need to chill.

Also, your stats need to include that last season Cordeiro was still a freshman.
I get not putting a lot of stock on the offense this year because of lack of practice, repetition and familiarity with the offense. In my book you can access a QBs consistency and accuracy no matter what the offense is. If a receiver is open and you are throwing to him a good QB will complete the pass. And a better QB will complete that pass in stride.

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Re: Is the knock on Cordeiro or the offense?

Post by Neighbor »

Hard to say without seeing all-22. I mean Chevan must've been like 2/50 on deep balls this season. There was also like one pass against Houston that was a short in route over the middle to Stovall that he threw way too late. So yeah we complain about lack of quick passes but maybe they've been there all season and Chevan just hasn't been seeing it? Or maybe the routes are too long and developing? idk hopefully some of the all-22 film makes its way to YouTube. there's been a handful of stuff from previous seasons on there but none so far for 2020.

but yeah it does seem like GJ and Graham really like Chevan or else they wouldn't keep saying it to media and/or the commentators. I mean Abbott only got to see the field once and that was like after 5 plays of TG desperately looking at the locker room like wtf even tho IMO we were fine with Turner back there

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Re: Is the knock on Cordeiro or the offense?

Post by EITSwarrior »

I think the lack of spring ball and abbreviated training camp definitely hurt the development and chemistry of offense. Not to mention it being a new offensive scheme, a new coaching staff and some new players. It shouldn't be no surprise that the offense would have some struggles. What does alarm me is CC missing throws. Like missing really bad. Especially downfield. Just hope CC improves, if not then I hope the other QBs get a good fair look at.

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Re: Is the knock on Cordeiro or the offense?

Post by couz808 »

He’s a run and shoot qb. Didn’t really have a spring and summer ball to study and practice the air raid. I hope after this off season that he will start to grasp the air raid.
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Re: Is the knock on Cordeiro or the offense?

Post by Irse »

He will keep on improving but I would like to see more competition at that position.
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Re: Is the knock on Cordeiro or the offense?

Post by cabanalane »

couz808 wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:32 am He’s a run and shoot qb. Didn’t really have a spring and summer ball to study and practice the air raid. I hope after this off season that he will start to grasp the air raid.
Garrett Gabriel was signed by Dick Tomey, and played in the Paul Johnson's Triple Options system of Bob Wagner. Gabriel was far from an Options QB. (I don't recall now) but the first June Jones QB was not a Run & Shoot QB, and rather left overs from the Fred Von App era. (Was that Alex somebody...I recall, could be wrong?).

So Cordeiro can learn the new system. I agree with you.

Going back to last year, there was a big drop from QB1 and QB2. I don't think Cordeiro is TG's guy, but he is the most seasoned, prepared, and experienced guy UH got.

I think if UH lost the last game and no Bowl game to win, Cordeiro would be gone, for sure. But UH won. So how can you not go with the "best" and most experienced guy you got. The stock on TG is high now IMO. If would be worst if they prepare someone else, and that guy freaks out after a blind side hit.

So even after this season, there isn't anyone after QB1 Cordeiro. May be kind of a risk to start a TG guy like Farrell.

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Re: Is the knock on Cordeiro or the offense?

Post by Irse »

cabanalane wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:17 am
couz808 wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:32 am He’s a run and shoot qb. Didn’t really have a spring and summer ball to study and practice the air raid. I hope after this off season that he will start to grasp the air raid.
Garrett Gabriel was signed by Dick Tomey, and played in the Paul Johnson's Triple Options system of Bob Wagner. Gabriel was far from an Options QB. (I don't recall now) but the first June Jones QB was not a Run & Shoot QB, and rather left overs from the Fred Von App era. (Was that Alex somebody...I recall, could be wrong?).

So Cordeiro can learn the new system. I agree with you.

Going back to last year, there was a big drop from QB1 and QB2. I don't think Cordeiro is TG's guy, but he is the most seasoned, prepared, and experienced guy UH got.

I think if UH lost the last game and no Bowl game to win, Cordeiro would be gone, for sure. But UH won. So how can you not go with the "best" and most experienced guy you got. The stock on TG is high now IMO. If would be worst if they prepare someone else, and that guy freaks out after a blind side hit.

So even after this season, there isn't anyone after QB1 Cordeiro. May be kind of a risk to start a TG guy like Farrell.
Dan Robinson was June's first QB here. He would have been great if he had another year of eligibility.
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Re: Is the knock on Cordeiro or the offense?

Post by RedZone »

Better blocking would help a whole lot. Too many whiffed blocks. I saw a quarterback under duress. Interesting how coaches made oline changes during the season. It seems they are seeing something there. Watching Alabama’s offensive game plan was amazing. Watching OSU defense make Trevor Lawrence cry after the game made Alabama’s offensive production an eye opening experience. Sark picked apart the OSU defense. But unfortunately we can’t afford a Sark as offensive coordinator. Still I hope our coaches were watching the game. There are a few plays I think that they could incorporate in our offense with Turner in mind. With the exception of Wyoming and San Diego State I think our team did really well this season. Spring ball will be huge this year.
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Re: Is the knock on Cordeiro or the offense?

Post by shrek2 »

Irse wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 3:31 am He will keep on improving but I would like to see more competition at that position.
Yeah. I'd like to see a second stringer with little or no drop off in production. Sort of like McDonald had when Cordeiro was backup.

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Re: Is the knock on Cordeiro or the offense?

Post by cabanalane »

I think there will be. There's 6 or 7 QBs now? Most are younger than CC. I would think we would see 3-4 real studs competing for the starting job, after next year.

I think CC will end up like Ikaika Woolsey. Just when it's his breakout year, the position then is given to someone else.

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Re: Is the knock on Cordeiro or the offense?

Post by kapakahi »

cabanalane wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:20 pm There's 6 or 7 QBs now? Most are younger than CC. I would think we would see 3-4 real studs competing for the starting job, after next year.
Other than CC, there are 5 other QBs currently on the roster.....3 other scholie QBs (RS Fr. Boone Abbott; RS Jr. Justin Uahinui; RS Jr. Armani Edden) + 2 walk-on QBs (RS Sr. Kamali'i Akina & true Fr. Jake Farrell).

Only 2 QBs (Abbott & Farrell) are younger and have more eligibility left than CC.

Given that UH has a limited amount of 2021 scholies to offer (with 2020 seniors eligible to return for the 2021 season given that TG already publicly stated that UH is limited to a maximum of 85 scholies for the 2021 season) and that UH already has a verbal commit from a 2021 Texas HS QB (Brayden Schager, Highland Park HS, TX.), probably unlikely that TG will sign a second QB in the 2021 Signing Class (unless he's an experienced transfer portal QB or a JC QB).

Even though Schager looks like the real deal, CC's most likely competition for the 2021 season will probably come from the QBs (likely Abbott and/or Edden) who participate in Spring 2021 practices. Schager figures to enter the QB competition for the following 2022 season.

UH is already actively recruiting and will hopefully sign at least one of the touted 2022 local HS QBs (Blaine Hipa / Campbell HS; AJ Bianco / Saint Louis; Tiger Adolpho / formerly Kahuku HS, but moved to Idaho; Jayden Maiava / Kaimuki HS).
https://247sports.com/player/blaine-hipa-46100561/
https://247sports.com/player/a-j-bianco-46084230/
https://247sports.com/player/tiger-adolpho-46100952/
https://247sports.com/Player/Jayden-Maiava-46094116/

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