Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

[HS Football Fanatic]

There was one year where St. Louis played defending CIF champion St John Bosco and lost by 50. They almost beat us for the ILH championship at the end of the year.

@gopunahou: OK, but they still lost the title. How much better did St Louis become as a result of the St John Bosco game? They still lost to Punahou. And guys could now say, "Not only did they lose to Punahou; they also were blown-out by St John Bosco." Seems to me that as far as St Louis is concerned, the benefits of the St John Bosco game were exceeded by the costs.

By the time the season ended, that St. Louis team improved by leaps and bounds.

@gopunahou: Perhaps. But, precisely how much of that improvement was due to playing St John Bosco? It's all so subjective. What isn't subjective is that St Louis got pounded by them. There's nothing ambiguous about the final score. Again, it's all about weighing costs versus benefits.

[HS Football Fanatic]

To beat the best,you have to play the best.Take your lumps early ,but keep adjusting and studying the opponent until you break through and win. Liberty spent ten years losing to Bishop Gorman when the Gaels won two mythical national titles and ten Nevada state titles. In 2019,Liberty finally beat BG in a state semifinal game before going on to win a state crown the next week. That never happens if Liberty gave up and said we can’t beat Bishop Gorman, they’re just too good.

@unpaid:
Well, look how long it took Liberty: Ten years. I suspect a school's alumni would rather not have to tolerate ten years of losing to any school, if it can be helped. And, it can be helped by simply not playing them, if there's a choice. Bishop Gorman and St Louis aren't in the same league, or even the same state. Frankly, I don't see why St Louis alumni should even give a rip about Bishop Gorman High. "Out of sight, out of mind." St Louis School has its roots and its history firmly planted in Hawaii, on Oahu. Concentrate on being the best on Oahu (which St Louis School has been, in football, most years). That's plenty enough to be thankful for. If you ask me, St Louis alumni should take the attitude that Bishop Gorman High might as well be on the moon. For St Louis School--as for any school here--Hawaii (and specifically, Oahu) is where it's at. It's all we really have to care about. That's particularly so when there's no national high school championship game to aspire to, anyway. To me it's like, who cares about the teams of out-of-state schools, regardless of how good they are? I certainly don't.

[ChadFukuoka]

To beat the best,you have to play the best.Take your lumps early ,but keep adjusting and studying the opponent until you break through and win. Liberty spent ten years losing to Bishop Gorman when the Gaels won two mythical national titles and ten Nevada state titles. In 2019,Liberty finally beat BG in a state semifinal game before going on to win a state crown the next week. That never happens if Liberty gave up and said we can’t beat Bishop Gorman, they’re just too good.

@unpaid:
Well, look how long it took Liberty: Ten years. I suspect a school's alumni would rather not have to tolerate ten years of losing to any school, if it can be helped. And, it can be helped by simply not playing them, if there's a choice. Bishop Gorman and St Louis aren't in the same league, or even the same state. Frankly, I don't see why St Louis alumni should even give a rip about Bishop Gorman High. "Out of sight, out of mind." St Louis School has its roots and its history firmly planted in Hawaii, on Oahu. Concentrate on being the best on Oahu (which St Louis School has been, in football, most years). That's plenty enough to be thankful for. If you ask me, St Louis alumni should take the attitude that Bishop Gorman High might as well be on the moon. For St Louis School--as for any school here--Hawaii (and specifically, Oahu) is where it's at. It's all we really have to care about. That's particularly so when there's no national high school championship game to aspire to, anyway. To me it's like, who cares about the teams of out-of-state schools, regardless of how good they are? I certainly don't.

I would say it does have some tangible effects. Both private and public high school teams have players from out of their geographical district (in public school cases, it’s about following geographic exception rules). So getting good players can be somewhat of an “arms race”.

Playing elite out of state programs like Bishop Gorman or St John Bosco, or hypothetically Mater Dei is a draw for elite players. I’m sure a lot of transfers to Mililani did come there because of their approach to scheduling tough. So once a program can establish their school as a place to be, a place worth transferring to, even if it means long car rides from where you actually live (Kapolei, Ewa Beach), it lays a foundation for them. Mililani will be good in the OIA for a while because they are well established. That helps players, both current and future, coaching staffs, alumni, school staff, etc.

It also helps with recruiting for college. If a Hawaii team travels to a mainland state, it allows college recruiters to see their players. They otherwise may not have that exposure because Hawaii is so isolated. If a player has a good game against Bishop Gorman or St John Bosco, maybe one of the well connected recruiters in Nevada or California will notify other colleges about them, giving that player the increased exposure. Yes, there are tons of camps, 7 on 7 events, pylon football, online recruiting videos, but actually playing well at your position against a better team, even in a loss, shows you can hang with the top dogs.

[gopunahou]

UH-Notre Dame football in 1991 is another one. UH only lost by six but trailed by a huge margin for most of the game. Regardless, their performance proved they could hang with college football's most prestigious program at the time. It was also the catalyst for their 11-2 season in 1992.

[HS Football Fanatic]

UH-Notre Dame football in 1991 is another one. UH only lost by six but trailed by a huge margin for most of the game. Regardless, their performance proved they could hang with college football's most prestigious program at the time. It was also the catalyst for their 11-2 season in 1992.

@gopunahou: Well, college football is a different animal. College football rankings are more publicized, and there's usually a bowl game that decides a national champion. No such thing for high school football. I also think there's a special situation here in Hawaii. Here in Hawaii, there's only one college football team, UH Manoa. Therefore, all the teams UH plays are from out-of-state. Since UH is the only show in town as far as football is concerned, there isn't an intra-state rivalry of any kind. But, there are dozens of high schools on Oahu alone, and only the smaller ones--which are a decided minority--don't have a football team. UH alumni really don't have a rival in-state, much less on-island, for football. As a UH alumnus myself, I get that. That's why I'm more into high school football, and high school sports in general. It's interesting and entertaining: Any high school on Oahu can be your high school alma mater's rival. In fact, there doesn't have to be any established rivalry at all; whenever your alma mater plays any other school, in any sport, it might be of interest to you, for no other reason than that that's your alma mater playing. There's a sense of connection. Take your alma mater, Punahou School, for example. Suppose they had a football game against, say, Waianae High. I don't think Punahou School considers Waianae High a longtime rival. Perhaps Kahuku High, but not Waianae High. Nonetheless, you might attend that game (or, given the pandemic, watch it on cable, if it's being broadcast). On the high school level, there are so many possible match-ups, especially in sports other than football. (No need to play only in "Open"; there's not even an "Open" division for any other sport.) This is especially true in pre-season and post-season tournaments and exhibition games; things are more wide-open, and schools aren't always bound by league membership or D1/D2 classification. I'll tell you what: I would sooner watch an Oahu high school game--in any sport--than watch a UH game in the same sport.

High schools have such a different vibe, don't they. Guys who are alumni of different high schools on Oahu can playfully talk smack about each other's alma maters.

[unpaid]

It’s big world. Stay local and get run over by something from halfway across the world.Or, you could engage and learn from people thousands of miles away from you. No surprises that way.

[HS Football Fanatic]

It’s big world. Stay local and get run over by something from halfway across the world.Or, you could engage and learn from people thousands of miles away from you. No surprises that way.

@unpaid: Well, that's certainly true, but if we take it down to high school football, no one from halfway across the world (or, halfway across the country) can run you over unless you play them. Simply don't play them. Let's say Bishop Gorman High were to taunt St Louis School, saying, "Unless you play us, you're chicken." If I were St Louis School, I would just shrug my shoulders and say, "Think what you want, but we're simply not interested. Perhaps you're stronger than us, perhaps we're stronger than you. We're simply not interested in finding out, either way. We're a Hawaii high school, and we're simply not interested in playing out-of-state schools. We're all about Hawaii high school football, and its rich history. As a Hawaii school, we've witnessed this history firsthand. Hawaii football is who we are and what we care about." As for engaging with and learning from other people thousands of miles away, well, OK. But, it doesn't mean you have to play high school football teams from out-of-state.

[unpaid]

It’s ironic that our children are in the process of having to move to those other states and mainland schools to be able to play,isn’t it?

The CDC has a .gov website that shows daily Covid-19 new cases and deaths and forecasts what the rate will look like by September 21. I selected Hawaii and what I saw was not comforting at all.Over 600 new cases with 25 deaths each day by September 21 based on data gathered up to August 11. Stats like that are what has the governor talking about putting restrictions back in place.

A few months ago when new daily cases came down to 20 a day with 1 or no deaths reported, then the DOE said we can have fall sports on schedule. Cases began spiking and the DOE delayed the start date to September 24. If you’re looking at the possibility that we’ll be seeing 600 new cases and 25 new deaths per day on September 21,then one thing you probably won’t be seeing is high school athletics in October.

[HS Football Fanatic]

It’s ironic that our children are in the process of having to move to those other states and mainland schools to be able to play,isn’t it?

The CDC has a .gov website that shows daily Covid-19 new cases and deaths and forecasts what the rate will look like by September 21. I selected Hawaii and what I saw was not comforting at all.Over 600 new cases with 25 deaths each day by September 21 based on data gathered up to August 11. Stats like that are what has the governor talking about putting restrictions back in place.

A few months ago when new daily cases came down to 20 a day with 1 or no deaths reported, then the DOE said we can have fall sports on schedule. Cases began spiking and the DOE delayed the start date to September 24. If you’re looking at the possibility that we’ll be seeing 600 new cases and 25 new deaths per day on September 21,then one thing you probably won’t be seeing is high school athletics in October.

@unpaid: I'm suspecting that we won't see high school sports until January, when Semester 2 starts. Aside from sports, I'm wondering how long high schools themselves can stay open. Given the daily new infections here on Oahu, I wouldn't be surprised if high schools--public and private--will be forced to go 100% virtual by October. Oahu can't afford to have high schools become hotbeds of COVID. Something has to give.

[ChadFukuoka]

It’s ironic that our children are in the process of having to move to those other states and mainland schools to be able to play,isn’t it?

The CDC has a .gov website that shows daily Covid-19 new cases and deaths and forecasts what the rate will look like by September 21. I selected Hawaii and what I saw was not comforting at all.Over 600 new cases with 25 deaths each day by September 21 based on data gathered up to August 11. Stats like that are what has the governor talking about putting restrictions back in place.

A few months ago when new daily cases came down to 20 a day with 1 or no deaths reported, then the DOE said we can have fall sports on schedule. Cases began spiking and the DOE delayed the start date to September 24. If you’re looking at the possibility that we’ll be seeing 600 new cases and 25 new deaths per day on September 21,then one thing you probably won’t be seeing is high school athletics in October.

@unpaid: I'm suspecting that we won't see high school sports until January, when Semester 2 starts. Aside from sports, I'm wondering how long high schools themselves can stay open. Given the daily new infections here on Oahu, I wouldn't be surprised if high schools--public and private--will be forced to go 100% virtual by October. Oahu can't afford to have high schools become hotbeds of COVID. Something has to give.

Have you seen the article on Hawaii Prep World? It says the HHSAA just put out a revised schedule for all sports. Football practices can begin on September 24, games will likely start two weeks later, and state playoffs will finish around New Year’s week. If nothing else changes, but who knows if games will be canceled due to positive covid tests? Or if outer island teams will travel to another island to play in states?

[HS Football Fanatic]

@ChadFukuoka: I don't know what HHSAA is smoking. The way the Delta variant is kicking our butts, there's no way any high school sports practices should be starting on September 24. I strongly suspect that that date will be pushed back. Well, the only sport that high schools perhaps might consider starting practices for on September 24, is singles tennis. The sport is played outdoors, and with only one player on each side of the court. Also, there's almost always well more than 6' between both players. Even then, of course, both players would have to wear masks. Imagine high school sports being limited to singles tennis. That's what the Delta variant has done to the schools. COVID screwed-over our high schools last school year, and it's doing it again this year. God knows when this thing is going to end.

What blew my mind is that the OIA held track last school year, boys' and girls'. There was a televised meet at Moanalua High's track. Could you imagine running sprints, dashes, and the longer running events, wearing a mask? That's what happened. All the participants had to wear masks.
I made special mention that the girls ran, too, because while the OIA had boys' volleyball, it didn't have girls' volleyball. Why? The ILH had boys' and girls' volleyball. Go figure.

[ChadFukuoka]

@ChadFukuoka: I don't know what HHSAA is smoking. The way the Delta variant is kicking our butts, there's no way any high school sports practices should be starting on September 24. I strongly suspect that that date will be pushed back. Well, the only sport that high schools perhaps might consider starting practices for on September 24, is singles tennis. The sport is played outdoors, and with only one player on each side of the court. Also, there's almost always well more than 6' between both players. Even then, of course, both players would have to wear masks. Imagine high school sports being limited to singles tennis. That's what the Delta variant has done to the schools. COVID screwed-over our high schools last school year, and it's doing it again this year. God knows when this thing is going to end.

What blew my mind is that the OIA held track last school year, boys' and girls'. There was a televised meet at Moanalua High's track. Could you imagine running sprints, dashes, and the longer running events, wearing a mask? That's what happened. All the participants had to wear masks.
I made special mention that the girls ran, too, because while the OIA had boys' volleyball, it didn't have girls' volleyball. Why? The ILH had boys' and girls' volleyball. Go figure.

Tennis is actually a spring sport. The fall sports with the most physical separation would likely be air riflery, and maybe bowling.

In air riflery, you’re shooting at individual stations separated by a panel, at a target a far distance away. The participants are separated with no physical contact needed.

In bowling, you’re going up to the lane and rolling the ball one bowler at a time. The other bowlers can stand to the side, off the lane, and socially distanced.

In both sports, wearing masks shouldn’t affect the performance too much. Both don’t require running, physical contact, or team interaction.

I also wonder where exactly state championships for football would be held.

[HS Football Fanatic]

@ChadFukuoka:
1. In high school sports, there's also soft tennis. Is that a spring sport, too?
2. I'd assume the state football championships would be held at UH stadium. That's replacing Aloha Stadium, right?
3. High school bowling is biting the dust. Didn't Windward Bowl close recently? Seems that the only bowling alleys left are the ones on military bases, which is pretty ridiculous. When I was in high school in the mid-'70s, there were bowling alleys all over the place.

[ChadFukuoka]

@ChadFukuoka:
1. In high school sports, there's also soft tennis. Is that a spring sport, too?
2. I'd assume the state football championships would be held at UH stadium. That's replacing Aloha Stadium, right?
3. High school bowling is biting the dust. Didn't Windward Bowl close recently? Seems that the only bowling alleys left are the ones on military bases, which is pretty ridiculous. When I was in high school in the mid-'70s, there were bowling alleys all over the place.

You’re right. Soft tennis is a fall sport, tennis is a spring sport. Do you know the difference between the two?

There’s also Aiea Bowl and Leeward Bowl. Likely why both Aiea and Pearl City have dominated bowling. Both alleys have youth bowling programs that act as “farm systems” to getting bowlers to the high school level. I believe Barber’s Point is open to the general public as well. Pali Lanes just closed a couple of months ago in Kailua.

I think bowling might have been a fad or trend that died out over the years. I believe you mentioned going to high school in the 70’s? Maybe it was more popular then, along with things like disco and roller skating rinks (at least on the mainland).

[HS Football Fanatic]

@ChadFukuoka:
1. No, I don't really know the difference. For one thing, I didn't play tennis in high school. (Besides, there wasn't soft tennis in the high schools back then.) I think I heard something once about the racket being different? I really don't know.
2. I'd like to think that the strength of a high school bowling team has nothing to do with whether there's a bowling alley nearby, but it stands to reason that that might be true. Hawaii Baptist Academy seems to have been one of the best schools in bowling in the ILH in recent years, and they're not near a bowling alley. (I think their high school campus is in Nuuanu.)
3. Well, I wouldn't call bowling a fad; it's been around for many decades. Having said that, the sport seems to have been dying out--for whatever reason--over the past ten years or so, at least here on Oahu. That's why there are so few bowling alleys here today. That must suck for guys who played bowling in high school; it's like irretrievably losing a part of their life experiences.
Yes, I was in high school in the mid-'70s. And yes, bowling was much more popular then; that's why there were so many bowling alleys back then. As for disco, yes: That was the thing back then, for better or for worse. Some of the disco hits of the time make me cringe when I hear them today.