Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

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ChadFukuoka wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 5:22 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:51 pm
gopunahou wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:55 am
Most of the years Pac-Five contended were also the years we finished near or at the bottom of the ILH. Only in 1979 and 1982 did Pac-Five and Punahou both finish with winning records.
@gopunahou: Well, at least Punahou School has become stronger since then. Can't say the same for Pac-5.
Punahou has always had a storied athletic history, in all sports, not just football. So maybe that was just a down period for them. And a once in a lifetime upswing for PAC-5. With both programs returning more to their norm.
@ChadFukuoka: What I can't quite grasp is why/how Pac-5 fell so far. I mean, their '85 team was scary, especially the D-line. I think that was the year they won the Prep Bow. Pac-5 had size back then, but they were also good in '80 and '82. So, Pac-5 wasn't just some flash in the pan during the '80s. What happened in the 2010s, and even the past two years?

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

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HS Football Fanatic wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:04 pm
ChadFukuoka wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 5:22 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:51 pm

@gopunahou: Well, at least Punahou School has become stronger since then. Can't say the same for Pac-5.
Punahou has always had a storied athletic history, in all sports, not just football. So maybe that was just a down period for them. And a once in a lifetime upswing for PAC-5. With both programs returning more to their norm.
@ChadFukuoka: What I can't quite grasp is why/how Pac-5 fell so far. I mean, their '85 team was scary, especially the D-line. I think that was the year they won the Prep Bow. Pac-5 had size back then, but they were also good in '80 and '82. So, Pac-5 wasn't just some flash in the pan during the '80s. What happened in the 2010s, and even the past two years?
They were good for a 5 year stretch, or something around that time frame. Maybe just good coaching, one of the member schools having strong local talent?

There have been other schools that were good for that amount of time, but not really great at any other point in their history. Radford and Nanakuli won OIA championships in the 80’s, but are now Division 1 or 2 teams (not in the highest division). You wouldn’t consider either of them OIA powerhouses.

Castle and Kailua were decent in the early 2000’s. There was one year where they played each other for the OIA championship at the stadium. Definitely an unexpected matchup if you’re only looking at the past history of those two schools, again not quite regular powerhouses of the OIA.

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

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@ChadFukuoka:
All but one of the schools you mentioned: Nanakuli High, Castle High, and Kailua High; none of them won a Prep Bowl. Radford High won one Prep Bowl, in '81. Pac-5 won two Prep Bowls, and were a field goal away from tying eventual ILH champ Kamehameha Schools in '80. None of the schools you mentioned is in Open now.

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

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HS Football Fanatic wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:50 pm @ChadFukuoka:
All but one of the schools you mentioned: Nanakuli High, Castle High, and Kailua High; none of them won a Prep Bowl. Radford High won one Prep Bowl, in '81. Pac-5 won two Prep Bowls, and were a field goal away from tying eventual ILH champ Kamehameha Schools in '80. None of the schools you mentioned is in Open now.
Yes, that’s what I mean. Nanakuli and Castle both won OIA championships, but never maintained their brief success over a long term period. Radford won a Prep Bowl like you mentioned, but never truly became an OIA powerhouse either.

But those schools were decent for a few years at a time. So like PAC-5, they experienced short term success, that was their peak, but the overall trajectory of their program was not sustained.

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

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@ChadFukuoka: True enough. The acid test is, which OIA schools are in Open? If they're in Open, you would assume they are football powerhouses. However, I think we would have to exclude Campbell High and Farrington High. Neither school won a Prep Bowl title, state D1 title, or state Open title. Farrington High, though, always had size; especially on the O-line. When I think of Farrington High, what comes to mind are elephant O-lines; they seem to have that every year. At the moment, I can't think of any specific trait that traditionally stands-out about Campbell High.

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

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HS Football Fanatic wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 7:17 pm @ChadFukuoka: True enough. The acid test is, which OIA schools are in Open? If they're in Open, you would assume they are football powerhouses. However, I think we would have to exclude Campbell High and Farrington High. Neither school won a Prep Bowl title. Farrington High, though, always had size; especially on the O-line. When I think of Farrington High, what comes to mind are elephant O-lines. At the moment, I can't think of any specific trait that traditionally stands-out about Campbell High.
Kapolei hasn’t won a championship either. But they are the newest school, so they didn’t have decades to win one.

Farrington has been in the upper tier of the OIA throughout the years. After Kahuku and Waianae, you could claim they have been the third strongest program. Who would you put in front of them? I mean from the very beginnings of the OIA until now.

Schools like Mililani have been great recently, but only really took off since the 2000’s. Mililani wasn’t great in the 70’s or 80’s for example.

Campbell was actually in the old Division 2, before winning a title and moving up to Division 1, and now the Open. So they haven’t even always played at the top level. Where at least Farrington was always in Division 1.

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

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@ChadFukuoka:
1. That's right; I forgot about Kapolei High. But, now that I'm thinking about them, I'm not sure I can call them a powerhouse school, either. I mean, yes, they are the newest public school on Oahu. But, they've had vars football for 17 years. They still haven't won a state D1 title or state Open title.
2. Farrington High, really, they're mostly about physical size, as I mentioned. I guess you could call them upper-tier, but I think that's only a result of their physical size. I would say the third strongest OIA school is Leilehua High, not Farrington High. Yes, Leilehua High is only in D1, but I suspect that most years they can beat Farrington High if they played head-to-head. I mean, it would be close, though. But Leilehua High has had Prep Bowl titles and state D1 titles.
3. Mililani High, I think, has to be considered a powerhouse school. To me, if you're in Open, and you've won a Prep Bowl, a state D1 title, or a state Open title, you're a powerhouse school. I don't think it matters that Mililani High wasn't "up there" during the '70s or '80s. There's no denying they're a powerhouse school now, and have been for at least the last five years or so.
4. As I had mentioned, I don't consider Campbell High a powerhouse school.

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

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HS Football Fanatic wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 7:37 pm @ChadFukuoka:
1. That's right; I forgot about Kapolei High. But, now that I'm thinking about them, I'm not sure I can call them a powerhouse school, either. I mean, yes, they are the newest public school on Oahu. But, they've had vars football for 17 years. They still haven't won a state D1 title or state Open title.
2. Farrington High, really, they're mostly about physical size, as I mentioned. I guess you could call them upper-tier, but I think that's only a result of their physical size. I would say the third strongest OIA school is Leilehua High, not Farrington High. Yes, Leilehua High is only in D1, but I suspect that most years they can beat Farrington High if they played head-to-head. I mean, it would be close, though. But Leilehua High has had Prep Bowl titles and state D1 titles.
3. Mililani High, I think, has to be considered a powerhouse school. To me, if you're in Open, and you've won a Prep Bowl, a state D1 title, or a state Open title, you're a powerhouse school. I don't think it matters that Mililani High wasn't "up there" during the '70s or '80s. There's no denying they're a powerhouse school now, and have been for at least the last five years or so.
4. As I had mentioned, I don't consider Campbell High a powerhouse school.
I was referring to Farrington and Mililani’s programs over their entire history.

Right now, Mililani is either the best or second best program in the OIA. Depending on if they can beat Kahuku. Right now, Farrington is probably in the bottom tier of the Open.

But you could make a case for Farrington being an upper tier program over their history, despite never winning it all. Most years, Kahuku or Waianae won the OIA. But after those two schools, Farrington was usually right behind them. Most of the town public schools like McKinley, Roosevelt, Kalani, Kaiser (outside of their run in the late 70’s and early 80’s), and the west side schools like Campbell, Radford, Aiea, Mililani have had sporadic periods of success, if we are looking at each school’s history from when they first started playing football.

I haven’t looked it up, but I’d imagine Farrington’s lifetime record in football is better then most OIA schools outside of Kahuku and Waianae.

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

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ChadFukuoka wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 7:49 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 7:37 pm @ChadFukuoka:
1. That's right; I forgot about Kapolei High. But, now that I'm thinking about them, I'm not sure I can call them a powerhouse school, either. I mean, yes, they are the newest public school on Oahu. But, they've had vars football for 17 years. They still haven't won a state D1 title or state Open title.
2. Farrington High, really, they're mostly about physical size, as I mentioned. I guess you could call them upper-tier, but I think that's only a result of their physical size. I would say the third strongest OIA school is Leilehua High, not Farrington High. Yes, Leilehua High is only in D1, but I suspect that most years they can beat Farrington High if they played head-to-head. I mean, it would be close, though. But Leilehua High has had Prep Bowl titles and state D1 titles.
3. Mililani High, I think, has to be considered a powerhouse school. To me, if you're in Open, and you've won a Prep Bowl, a state D1 title, or a state Open title, you're a powerhouse school. I don't think it matters that Mililani High wasn't "up there" during the '70s or '80s. There's no denying they're a powerhouse school now, and have been for at least the last five years or so.
4. As I had mentioned, I don't consider Campbell High a powerhouse school.
I was referring to Farrington and Mililani’s programs over their entire history.

Right now, Mililani is either the best or second best program in the OIA. Depending on if they can beat Kahuku. Right now, Farrington is probably in the bottom tier of the Open.

But you could make a case for Farrington being an upper tier program over their history, despite never winning it all. Most years, Kahuku or Waianae won the OIA. But after those two schools, Farrington was usually right behind them. Most of the town public schools like McKinley, Roosevelt, Kalani, Kaiser (outside of their run in the late 70’s and early 80’s), and the west side schools like Campbell, Radford, Aiea, Mililani have had sporadic periods of success, if we are looking at each school’s history from when they first started playing football.

I haven’t looked it up, but I’d imagine Farrington’s lifetime record in football is better then most OIA schools outside of Kahuku and Waianae.
I think Mililani's taken Waianae's place as Kahuku's primary challenger.
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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

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gopunahou wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:41 pm
ChadFukuoka wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 7:49 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 7:37 pm @ChadFukuoka:
1. That's right; I forgot about Kapolei High. But, now that I'm thinking about them, I'm not sure I can call them a powerhouse school, either. I mean, yes, they are the newest public school on Oahu. But, they've had vars football for 17 years. They still haven't won a state D1 title or state Open title.
2. Farrington High, really, they're mostly about physical size, as I mentioned. I guess you could call them upper-tier, but I think that's only a result of their physical size. I would say the third strongest OIA school is Leilehua High, not Farrington High. Yes, Leilehua High is only in D1, but I suspect that most years they can beat Farrington High if they played head-to-head. I mean, it would be close, though. But Leilehua High has had Prep Bowl titles and state D1 titles.
3. Mililani High, I think, has to be considered a powerhouse school. To me, if you're in Open, and you've won a Prep Bowl, a state D1 title, or a state Open title, you're a powerhouse school. I don't think it matters that Mililani High wasn't "up there" during the '70s or '80s. There's no denying they're a powerhouse school now, and have been for at least the last five years or so.
4. As I had mentioned, I don't consider Campbell High a powerhouse school.
I was referring to Farrington and Mililani’s programs over their entire history.

Right now, Mililani is either the best or second best program in the OIA. Depending on if they can beat Kahuku. Right now, Farrington is probably in the bottom tier of the Open.

But you could make a case for Farrington being an upper tier program over their history, despite never winning it all. Most years, Kahuku or Waianae won the OIA. But after those two schools, Farrington was usually right behind them. Most of the town public schools like McKinley, Roosevelt, Kalani, Kaiser (outside of their run in the late 70’s and early 80’s), and the west side schools like Campbell, Radford, Aiea, Mililani have had sporadic periods of success, if we are looking at each school’s history from when they first started playing football.

I haven’t looked it up, but I’d imagine Farrington’s lifetime record in football is better then most OIA schools outside of Kahuku and Waianae.
I think Mililani's taken Waianae's place as Kahuku's primary challenger.
Yes, that’s why I mentioned Mililani is either the best or second best program as of now. Leilehua had also had a couple of nice runs recently. Campbell has improved as well. Right now, I’d put Waianae in the bottom half of the OIA Open teams, so as of now, their not Kahuku’s main challenge anymore, but historically they have been.

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

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ChadFukuoka wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 7:49 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 7:37 pm @ChadFukuoka:
1. That's right; I forgot about Kapolei High. But, now that I'm thinking about them, I'm not sure I can call them a powerhouse school, either. I mean, yes, they are the newest public school on Oahu. But, they've had vars football for 17 years. They still haven't won a state D1 title or state Open title.
2. Farrington High, really, they're mostly about physical size, as I mentioned. I guess you could call them upper-tier, but I think that's only a result of their physical size. I would say the third strongest OIA school is Leilehua High, not Farrington High. Yes, Leilehua High is only in D1, but I suspect that most years they can beat Farrington High if they played head-to-head. I mean, it would be close, though. But Leilehua High has had Prep Bowl titles and state D1 titles.
3. Mililani High, I think, has to be considered a powerhouse school. To me, if you're in Open, and you've won a Prep Bowl, a state D1 title, or a state Open title, you're a powerhouse school. I don't think it matters that Mililani High wasn't "up there" during the '70s or '80s. There's no denying they're a powerhouse school now, and have been for at least the last five years or so.
4. As I had mentioned, I don't consider Campbell High a powerhouse school.
I was referring to Farrington and Mililani’s programs over their entire history.

Right now, Mililani is either the best or second best program in the OIA. Depending on if they can beat Kahuku. Right now, Farrington is probably in the bottom tier of the Open.

But you could make a case for Farrington being an upper tier program over their history, despite never winning it all. Most years, Kahuku or Waianae won the OIA. But after those two schools, Farrington was usually right behind them. Most of the town public schools like McKinley, Roosevelt, Kalani, Kaiser (outside of their run in the late 70’s and early 80’s), and the west side schools like Campbell, Radford, Aiea, Mililani have had sporadic periods of success, if we are looking at each school’s history from when they first started playing football.

I haven’t looked it up, but I’d imagine Farrington’s lifetime record in football is better then most OIA schools outside of Kahuku and Waianae.
@ChadFukuoka:
It probably would be unfair to compare Farrington High and Mililani High over their entire history, as Mililani High is much newer than Farrington High. Farrington High was established in 1936, while Mililani High was established in 1973.

Right now, yes, I think Mililani High is #2 in the OIA, behind Kahuku High.

To me, it doesn't matter how well Farrington High did "over their history." If you haven't really been a football powerhouse over the past 15 years, no. (I would say over the past 20 years, but that wouldn't be fair to Kapolei High, which is the newest public school on Oahu, and has had vars football for only 17 years.)

Again, I don't think it would be fair to look at Farrington High's lifetime record, as they are an older school than some other schools.

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

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gopunahou wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:41 pm
ChadFukuoka wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 7:49 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 7:37 pm @ChadFukuoka:
1. That's right; I forgot about Kapolei High. But, now that I'm thinking about them, I'm not sure I can call them a powerhouse school, either. I mean, yes, they are the newest public school on Oahu. But, they've had vars football for 17 years. They still haven't won a state D1 title or state Open title.
2. Farrington High, really, they're mostly about physical size, as I mentioned. I guess you could call them upper-tier, but I think that's only a result of their physical size. I would say the third strongest OIA school is Leilehua High, not Farrington High. Yes, Leilehua High is only in D1, but I suspect that most years they can beat Farrington High if they played head-to-head. I mean, it would be close, though. But Leilehua High has had Prep Bowl titles and state D1 titles.
3. Mililani High, I think, has to be considered a powerhouse school. To me, if you're in Open, and you've won a Prep Bowl, a state D1 title, or a state Open title, you're a powerhouse school. I don't think it matters that Mililani High wasn't "up there" during the '70s or '80s. There's no denying they're a powerhouse school now, and have been for at least the last five years or so.
4. As I had mentioned, I don't consider Campbell High a powerhouse school.
I was referring to Farrington and Mililani’s programs over their entire history.

Right now, Mililani is either the best or second best program in the OIA. Depending on if they can beat Kahuku. Right now, Farrington is probably in the bottom tier of the Open.

But you could make a case for Farrington being an upper tier program over their history, despite never winning it all. Most years, Kahuku or Waianae won the OIA. But after those two schools, Farrington was usually right behind them. Most of the town public schools like McKinley, Roosevelt, Kalani, Kaiser (outside of their run in the late 70’s and early 80’s), and the west side schools like Campbell, Radford, Aiea, Mililani have had sporadic periods of success, if we are looking at each school’s history from when they first started playing football.

I haven’t looked it up, but I’d imagine Farrington’s lifetime record in football is better then most OIA schools outside of Kahuku and Waianae.
I think Mililani's taken Waianae's place as Kahuku's primary challenger.
@ChadFukuoka: I agree. Waianae High did play them really close about six years ago, but other than that, Kahuku High clearly prevailed.

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

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ChadFukuoka wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:45 pm
gopunahou wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:41 pm
ChadFukuoka wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 7:49 pm

I was referring to Farrington and Mililani’s programs over their entire history.

Right now, Mililani is either the best or second best program in the OIA. Depending on if they can beat Kahuku. Right now, Farrington is probably in the bottom tier of the Open.

But you could make a case for Farrington being an upper tier program over their history, despite never winning it all. Most years, Kahuku or Waianae won the OIA. But after those two schools, Farrington was usually right behind them. Most of the town public schools like McKinley, Roosevelt, Kalani, Kaiser (outside of their run in the late 70’s and early 80’s), and the west side schools like Campbell, Radford, Aiea, Mililani have had sporadic periods of success, if we are looking at each school’s history from when they first started playing football.

I haven’t looked it up, but I’d imagine Farrington’s lifetime record in football is better then most OIA schools outside of Kahuku and Waianae.
I think Mililani's taken Waianae's place as Kahuku's primary challenger.
Yes, that’s why I mentioned Mililani is either the best or second best program as of now. Leilehua had also had a couple of nice runs recently. Campbell has improved as well. Right now, I’d put Waianae in the bottom half of the OIA Open teams, so as of now, their not Kahuku’s main challenge anymore, but historically they have been.
@ChadFukuoka: Depends on how you define, "historically"; how far back are going? For one thing, Kahuku High has been prominent only since the mid-'90s or so; Waianae High had become dominant in the mid-'70s. When Kahuku High really gained prominence in the late-'90s, I think more often than not, Leilehua High had been their main challenge. Of course, that was prior to the creation of the Open division several years ago. More recently, yes, Mililani High has been Kahuku High's main challenge.

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

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HS Football Fanatic wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:04 pm
ChadFukuoka wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 5:22 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:51 pm

@gopunahou: Well, at least Punahou School has become stronger since then. Can't say the same for Pac-5.
Punahou has always had a storied athletic history, in all sports, not just football. So maybe that was just a down period for them. And a once in a lifetime upswing for PAC-5. With both programs returning more to their norm.
@ChadFukuoka: What I can't quite grasp is why/how Pac-5 fell so far. I mean, their '85 team was scary, especially the D-line. I think that was the year they won the Prep Bow. Pac-5 had size back then, but they were also good in '80 and '82. So, Pac-5 wasn't just some flash in the pan during the '80s. What happened in the 2010s, and even the past two years?
The last time Pac-Five finished in the upper half of the ILH was 1987. Their decline started in 1988. That coincides with the period that St. Louis started to pull away from everybody else in the state. You can cite St. Louis’s stranglehold on the top aspiring FB players in the state as a factor in P5’s decline. I think P5’s FB turnout before 1988 was much higher than it was during the 90s.

The 1990s also saw two powerhouse basketball programs of the 80s—Maryknoll and UH-Lab—decline. UH-Lab won state titles in the 80s but could no longer hang with the likes of Iolani, Punahou, KSK, and St. Louis. They decided to play D2 hoops. And believe it or not, Maryknoll was a bottom feeder in the ILH throughout the 90s and most of the 2000s. Only when they hired Kelly Grant did they start to win on a consistent basis.
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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

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@gopunahou:

I suspect St Louis School started its ascent in football under Cal Lee. I think Cal's first year as HC at the school was '82. It was disastrous; I think they may have finished last in the ILH. (Yes, even behind Damien School, which had been the weakest school in the ILH for years.) I suspect that Cal engineered a turnaround in St Louis School's fortunes by recruiting heavily from MWH. I'm not so sure that he was trying to lure players from Pac-5, although some probably did start enrolling at St Louis as St Louis started becoming dominant in the ILH.

Regarding basketball, yeah, University High was really tough in the late-'70s and early-'80s. I had mentioned Leroy Lutu being one of the best players in the state his senior year (Class of '81). Of course, University High (now University Lab) is still playing basketball in the ILH, in D2. As for Maryknoll School, they were a basketball powerhouse before the '80s; they were tough in the mid-'70s. They played in the '76 state title game against Kamehameha Schools, with Kamehameha winning. Interestingly, those same two schools played for the D1 state title just two years ago, with Maryknoll winning. Quite frankly, I think the only reason Maryknoll won was that Kamehameha's Christmas Togiai suffered an injury in the semifinal win against Kahuku High late in the game, which had been played the night before. The injury prevented him from playing in the title game. During the regular season, with Togiai healthy, Kamehameha defeated Maryknoll by a comfortable margin, about 9 points. That, despite that Tolentino kid playing for Maryknoll, who stood at 7'. Some guys thought he was good enough to play pro someday, and he was only an underclassman. Unfortunately for Maryknoll School, I think he transferred to a mainland school, so he won't be playing for Maryknoll during the upcoming season. If there's an upcoming season.

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