Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

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@ChadFukuoka: Yeah, I've been hearing about how Pac-5 somehow gets a free pass for the D2 State tourney, and wasn't that the case two years ago (there was no high school football this past year)?
I think Pac-5 is such an anomaly, on so many levels. I mean, it's not a school; it's a combination of schools. You've got this amalgam of a number of schools trying to play on/for the same team. They've been doing it for such a long time (since '74 or '75), and it's pretty amazing. They had always used Mid-Pac Institute's field, as that was the only member school that had a football field. Then, when Mid-Pac pulled out about two years ago, Pac-5 didn't have a field even to practice on. Since the mid-'70s, there was the logistical challenge of getting players from all the member schools to Mid-Pac's football field to practice. In the '80s, they had climbed to the top of Hawaii high school football twice, winning the Prep Bowl title, which was the de facto equivalent of the State Open title today. I think the 2nd year's team--the '85 team--was probably Pac-5's best team ever. They had size and talent. Their '80 team was pretty tough, too. So, the '80s were indeed Pac-5's best decade.
But--on the high school level--how do you be loyal to a team, as opposed to a school? How does even really work? Pac-5 is essentially an artificial construct, right? That, to me, is what makes Pac-5 so unusual, so special. Unfortunately, Pac-5 has fallen upon hard times; they were pounded by Kamehameha II, which is essentially a JV team. I wonder how the guys who were on the '85 Pac-5 team feel about that? Must be pretty discouraging. So much has changed for Pac-5 football since the mid-'80s.
Last edited by HS Football Fanatic on Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

Post by gopunahou »

HS Football Fanatic wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:43 pm @ChadFukuoka: Yeah, I've been hearing about how Pac-5 somehow gets a free pass for the D2 State tourney, and wasn't that the case two years ago (there was no high school football this past year)?
I think Pac-5 is such an anomaly, on so many levels. I mean, it's not a school; it's a combination of schools. You've got this amalgam of a number of schools trying to play on/for the same team. They've been doing it for such a long time (since '74 or '75), and it's pretty amazing. They had always used Mid-Pac Institute's field, as that was the only member school that had a football field. Then, when Mid-Pac pulled out about two years ago, Pac-5 didn't have a field even to practice on. Since the mid-'70s, there was the logistical challenge of getting players from all the member schools to Mid-Pac's football field to practice. In the '80s, they had climbed to the top of Hawaii high school football twice, winning the Prep Bowl title, which was the de facto equivalent of the State Open title today. I think the 2nd year's team--the '85 team--was probably Pac-5's best team ever. They had size and talent.
But--on the high school level--how do you be loyal to a team, as opposed to a school? How does even really work? Pac-5 is essentially an artificial construct, right? That, to me, is what makes Pac-5 so unusual, so special. Unfortunately, Pac-5 has fallen upon hard times; they were pounded by Kamehameha II, which is essentially a JV team. I wonder how the guys who were on the '85 Pac-5 team feel about that? Must be pretty discouraging. So much has changed for Pac-5 football since the mid-'80s.
Pac-Five's hard times go as far back as 1988 or '89, when they started losing (and finishing near the bottom of the ILH) on a consistent basis. Not helping was a change in UH-Lab's acceptance standards. I think a lot of great Pac-Five FB players came from UH-Lab, which also was a basketball contender. UH-Lab no longer plays the big boys in basketball.
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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

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@gopunahou: You're absolutely right about University High. I remember Leroy Lutu; I think he was an '81 University alumnus. He was a force on the Pac-5 football team and the University High basketball team. University High is another school that has kind of faded into oblivion. I mean, they're still around, and they still have teams from various sports participating in the ILH. But, there was a time when University High was tough in boys' basketball and girls' volleyball. I think University High's girls' volleyball team won like three back-to-back state titles during the '80s. They were the Kamehameha of girls' volleyball during the '80s. Also, I think they changed their official name to University Laboratory School several years ago. I think that adds to confusion about their "brand"; I wonder what University alumni think about that. Like, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." What was wrong with their old name, University High School?
Last edited by HS Football Fanatic on Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

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HS Football Fanatic wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:43 pm @ChadFukuoka: Yeah, I've been hearing about how Pac-5 somehow gets a free pass for the D2 State tourney, and wasn't that the case two years ago (there was no high school football this past year)?
I think Pac-5 is such an anomaly, on so many levels. I mean, it's not a school; it's a combination of schools. You've got this amalgam of a number of schools trying to play on/for the same team. They've been doing it for such a long time (since '74 or '75), and it's pretty amazing. They had always used Mid-Pac Institute's field, as that was the only member school that had a football field. Then, when Mid-Pac pulled out about two years ago, Pac-5 didn't have a field even to practice on. Since the mid-'70s, there was the logistical challenge of getting players from all the member schools to Mid-Pac's football field to practice. In the '80s, they had climbed to the top of Hawaii high school football twice, winning the Prep Bowl title, which was the de facto equivalent of the State Open title today. I think the 2nd year's team--the '85 team--was probably Pac-5's best team ever. They had size and talent. Their '80 team was pretty tough, too. So, the '80s were indeed Pac-5's best decade.
But--on the high school level--how do you be loyal to a team, as opposed to a school? How does even really work? Pac-5 is essentially an artificial construct, right? That, to me, is what makes Pac-5 so unusual, so special. Unfortunately, Pac-5 has fallen upon hard times; they were pounded by Kamehameha II, which is essentially a JV team. I wonder how the guys who were on the '85 Pac-5 team feel about that? Must be pretty discouraging. So much has changed for Pac-5 football since the mid-'80s.
I just looked up the 2019 state tournament results. PAC-5 was not in it. They were the only team in the ILH Division 2, and therefore not eligible. The Division 2 tournament had 5 teams (instead of 6, since the ILH had no representative).

I wonder if it’s just because the other private schools are recruiting more? Or are recruiting talent from an earlier age? Or maybe parents and students just want to stick to school with their own team. I’d imagine the logistics of running a football team are difficult at PAC-5.

On an unrelated note, as far as public schools go, Kaiser used to be pretty decent in the late 70’s and early 80’s as well. I believe they won a couple of OIA championships.

Two schools with much better past eras then their current ones.

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

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@ChadFukuoka:
1. Oh; OK. What I do remember is that there was some kind of funky complication about Pac-5's divisional status (and state eligibility). Guess it was what you said.
2. As I had mentioned, I think it's amazing that Pac-5 has lasted so long, and one wonders how much longer they can last. I mean, it's a combination of private schools, so you have the usual intrigue regarding recruiting.
3. Oh, you are so right about Kaiser High. Like Pac-5, there was a time when Kaiser High really kicked butt in football, and we're talking about the Prep Bowl era. No such thing as Open, D1, or D2 back then; Kaiser High slugged it out toe-to-toe with the big boys. The school had a string of really tough teams from the late-'70s to the early-'80s. Back then, Kaiser High and Waianae High often slugged it out for OIA supremacy. In '79, Kaiser High won the Prep Bowl, kicking Kamehameha Schools' butts, 27-7. Without a doubt, that was the zenith of football for Kaiser High; the school hasn't seen a year--or a team--like that one since.
4. Absolutely, both University Lab School and Kaiser High have tumbled from their former lofty status. Looking ahead, I think Kaiser High has the better prospects of the two. University Lab is smaller than Kaiser High, for one. And, at least Kaiser High has its own football team; University High/Lab never did.

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

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HS Football Fanatic wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:17 pm @ChadFukuoka:
1. Oh; OK. What I do remember is that there was some kind of funky complication about Pac-5's divisional status (and state eligibility). Guess it was what you said.
2. As I had mentioned, I think it's amazing that Pac-5 has lasted so long, and one wonders how much longer they can last. I mean, it's a combination of private schools, so you have the usual intrigue regarding recruiting.
3. Oh, you are so right about Kaiser High. Like Pac-5, there was a time when Kaiser High really kicked butt in football, and we're talking about the Prep Bowl era. No such thing as Open, D1, or D2 back then; Kaiser High slugged it out toe-to-toe with the big boys. The school had a string of really tough teams from the late-'70s to the early-'80s. Back then, Kaiser High and Waianae High often slugged it out for OIA supremacy. In '79, Kaiser High won the Prep Bowl, kicking Kamehameha Schools' butt, 27-7. Without a doubt, that was the zenith of Kaiser High football; the school hasn't seen a year--or a team--like that one since.
4. Absolutely, both University Lab School and Kaiser High have tumbled from their former lofty status. Looking ahead, I think Kaiser High has the better prospects of the two. University Lab is smaller than Kaiser High, for one. And, at least Kaiser High has its own football team; University High/Lab never did.
Well, Kaiser was good in Division 2, until the whole scandal with Rich Miano and Chad Ikei unfolded. They did win a Division 2 state title. The principal at the time, John Sosa, was actually my old principal at Aiea High in my senior year, when I graduated. And there was also the incident with their coach Arnold Martinez and some parents getting into a scuffle. So it seems like a very rocky road for Kaiser in recent times.

I also didn’t realize until I looked up Kaiser’s 1979 season that Ron Lee was their head coach. Maybe that played a part in their success? I know public schools can’t recruit like private schools, but I’m assuming there were geographic exceptions back then? Was Ron Lee attracting talent to Kaiser during that time, that they haven’t gotten since? Or was there just more young football talent in the Hawaii Kai/Kahala area, and maybe not so much now? I don’t know the area very well.

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

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@ChadFukuoka:
1. Yes, I remember the hassles Kaiser High had with the vars football team recently, especially the meltdown that took down HC Martinez; as I recall, it wasn't really his fault.
2. As for Ron Lee, well, he was the one who started the run-and-shoot at Kaiser High. He did it because that was the only way the school could compete against the big (literally) boys; Kaiser High didn't have a whole lot of big players. We're talking about the mid-'70s. The run-and-shoot, of course, was a wide-open, relatively radical pass O. Lee knew that Kaiser High couldn't try to play smashmouth with schools like Waianae High. Back then, as now, Waianae High had huge players. Back in the mid- to late-'70s, Waianae High would run the ball down your throat with the wishbone formation. Waianae High had these elephant O-linemen back then, as well tough, big RBs.

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

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HS Football Fanatic wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:45 pm @ChadFukuoka:
1. Yes, I remember the hassles Kaiser High had with the vars football team recently, especially the meltdown that took down HC Martinez; as I recall, it wasn't really his fault.
2. As for Ron Lee, well, he was the one who started the run-and-shoot at Kaiser High. He did it because that was the only way the school could compete against the big (literally) boys; Kaiser High didn't have a whole lot of big players. We're talking about the mid-'70s. The run-and-shoot, of course, was a wide-open, relatively radical pass O. Lee knew that Kaiser High couldn't try to play smashmouth with schools like Waianae High. Back then, as now, Waianae High had huge players. Back in the mid- to late-'70s, Waianae High would run the ball down your throat with the wishbone formation. Waianae High had these elephant O-linemen back then, as well tough, big RBs.
You could argue Waianae is another team of “yesteryear”. They have been struggling in the new Open division, and were kind of middle of the pack in the old OIA division 1. At least in the last decade or so. Not quite their dominant selves like back in the old days.

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

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HS Football Fanatic wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:57 pm @gopunahou: You're absolutely right about University High. I remember Leroy Lutu; I think he was an '81 University alumnus. He was a force on the Pac-5 football team and the University High basketball team. University High is another school that has kind of faded into oblivion. I mean, they're still around, and they still have teams from various sports participating in the ILH. But, there was a time when University High was tough in boys' basketball and girls' volleyball. I think University High's girls' volleyball team won like three back-to-back state titles during the '80s. They were the Kamehameha of girls' volleyball during the '80s. Also, I think they changed their official name to University Laboratory School several years ago. I think that adds to confusion about their "brand"; I wonder what University alumni think about that. Like, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." What was wrong with their old name, University High School?
Maybe they thought their old name would be confusing, because “University” usually refers to a college, and they are a high school?

It kind of reminds me of the MLB team, LAA Angels. They used to be called the Anaheim Angels, but changed their name to the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, which is so much more confusing.

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

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HS Football Fanatic wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:57 pm @gopunahou: You're absolutely right about University High. I remember Leroy Lutu; I think he was an '81 University alumnus. He was a force on the Pac-5 football team and the University High basketball team. University High is another school that has kind of faded into oblivion. I mean, they're still around, and they still have teams from various sports participating in the ILH. But, there was a time when University High was tough in boys' basketball and girls' volleyball. I think University High's girls' volleyball team won like three back-to-back state titles during the '80s. They were the Kamehameha of girls' volleyball during the '80s. Also, I think they changed their official name to University Laboratory School several years ago. I think that adds to confusion about their "brand"; I wonder what University alumni think about that. Like, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." What was wrong with their old name, University High School?
Most of the years Pac-Five contended were also the years we finished near or at the bottom of the ILH. Only in 1979 and 1982 did Pac-Five and Punahou both finish with winning records.
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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

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Updated Top Ten,

1.St.Louis 0-1 Did not play.Covid.
2.Kahuku 0-0 In lockdown.
3.Punahou 1-0 DNP. Covid.
4.Mililani 0-0 In lockdown.
5.Campbell 0-0In lockdown.
6.Iolani 2-0 Beat PAC-5
7.Farrington 0-0 In lockdown.
8.Hilo 0-0 In lockdown.
9.Lahainaluna 0-0 In lockdown.
10.Kamehameha 0-1 DNP.

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

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ChadFukuoka wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 10:16 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:45 pm @ChadFukuoka:
1. Yes, I remember the hassles Kaiser High had with the vars football team recently, especially the meltdown that took down HC Martinez; as I recall, it wasn't really his fault.
2. As for Ron Lee, well, he was the one who started the run-and-shoot at Kaiser High. He did it because that was the only way the school could compete against the big (literally) boys; Kaiser High didn't have a whole lot of big players. We're talking about the mid-'70s. The run-and-shoot, of course, was a wide-open, relatively radical pass O. Lee knew that Kaiser High couldn't try to play smashmouth with schools like Waianae High. Back then, as now, Waianae High had huge players. Back in the mid- to late-'70s, Waianae High would run the ball down your throat with the wishbone formation. Waianae High had these elephant O-linemen back then, as well tough, big RBs.
You could argue Waianae is another team of “yesteryear”. They have been struggling in the new Open division, and were kind of middle of the pack in the old OIA division 1. At least in the last decade or so. Not quite their dominant selves like back in the old days.
@ChadFukuoka:
Yes, Waianae High was pretty dominant from the mid-'70s to at least the early-'80s. Back then, it was that school and Kamehameha Schools, though--as I had mentioned in an earlier post--Kaiser High beat both of those schools in '79. The current Open division is really tough, and the fact that Waianae High is in it, shows that they don't suck. Yes, they're not as dominant as they were in the mid-'70s, but they don't suck, either. If a school is in Open, it doesn't suck.

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

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ChadFukuoka wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 10:26 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:57 pm @gopunahou: You're absolutely right about University High. I remember Leroy Lutu; I think he was an '81 University alumnus. He was a force on the Pac-5 football team and the University High basketball team. University High is another school that has kind of faded into oblivion. I mean, they're still around, and they still have teams from various sports participating in the ILH. But, there was a time when University High was tough in boys' basketball and girls' volleyball. I think University High's girls' volleyball team won like three back-to-back state titles during the '80s. They were the Kamehameha of girls' volleyball during the '80s. Also, I think they changed their official name to University Laboratory School several years ago. I think that adds to confusion about their "brand"; I wonder what University alumni think about that. Like, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." What was wrong with their old name, University High School?


Maybe they thought their old name would be confusing, because “University” usually refers to a college, and they are a high school?

It kind of reminds me of the MLB team, LAA Angels. They used to be called the Anaheim Angels, but changed their name to the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, which is so much more confusing.
@ChadFukuoka: Well, I doubt that that was the reason. I mean, their name is still, "University". It simply went from University High, to University Lab.

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

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gopunahou wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:55 am
HS Football Fanatic wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:57 pm @gopunahou: You're absolutely right about University High. I remember Leroy Lutu; I think he was an '81 University alumnus. He was a force on the Pac-5 football team and the University High basketball team. University High is another school that has kind of faded into oblivion. I mean, they're still around, and they still have teams from various sports participating in the ILH. But, there was a time when University High was tough in boys' basketball and girls' volleyball. I think University High's girls' volleyball team won like three back-to-back state titles during the '80s. They were the Kamehameha of girls' volleyball during the '80s. Also, I think they changed their official name to University Laboratory School several years ago. I think that adds to confusion about their "brand"; I wonder what University alumni think about that. Like, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." What was wrong with their old name, University High School?
Most of the years Pac-Five contended were also the years we finished near or at the bottom of the ILH. Only in 1979 and 1982 did Pac-Five and Punahou both finish with winning records.
@gopunahou: Well, at least Punahou School has become stronger since then. Can't say the same for Pac-5.

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

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HS Football Fanatic wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:51 pm
gopunahou wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:55 am
HS Football Fanatic wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:57 pm @gopunahou: You're absolutely right about University High. I remember Leroy Lutu; I think he was an '81 University alumnus. He was a force on the Pac-5 football team and the University High basketball team. University High is another school that has kind of faded into oblivion. I mean, they're still around, and they still have teams from various sports participating in the ILH. But, there was a time when University High was tough in boys' basketball and girls' volleyball. I think University High's girls' volleyball team won like three back-to-back state titles during the '80s. They were the Kamehameha of girls' volleyball during the '80s. Also, I think they changed their official name to University Laboratory School several years ago. I think that adds to confusion about their "brand"; I wonder what University alumni think about that. Like, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." What was wrong with their old name, University High School?
Most of the years Pac-Five contended were also the years we finished near or at the bottom of the ILH. Only in 1979 and 1982 did Pac-Five and Punahou both finish with winning records.
@gopunahou: Well, at least Punahou School has become stronger since then. Can't say the same for Pac-5.
Punahou has always had a storied athletic history, in all sports, not just football. So maybe that was just a down period for them. And a once in a lifetime upswing for PAC-5. With both programs returning more to their norm.

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