2018-19 Wrestling season

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FlyingSquirrel808
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Re: 2018-19 Wrestling season

Post by FlyingSquirrel808 »

ringworm wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:08 am
Rds wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:17 pm
ringworm wrote: Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:51 pm

Seeding makes a difference when you are #20 :o Some league champions get in unchallenged at the championship, get to states and lose round 1 go backside and go home. Some #2 become state champions but there are times where if the player was in a different quad they may squeak by and place top 6. I dont like how they only seed top 3. Is it because it takes to much time to sort it out? I know league champions get the top 5 the runner up goes across but what about 3 and 4? What if say OIA 4 gets the #1 seed quad but has to fishtail into the bracket but a OIA Alt player gets in cause 2 didnt make weight? That dont seem fair, maybe the Alt places top 6 and the OIA #4 goes out cause of the fishtail. You cant guess the outcome of that player but they got the rubbish deal vs the Alt player. It makes a difference when you dont have top seeding. Yes the league champs deserve the seed most of the time and the bracket is designed so the top 4 make semis but the rest is a crapshoot? There is room for improvement.
A alternet doesn't take over the spot that didn't show for what ever reason they are put on the fish tail side of the bracket but i see what your saying but no matter what someone is always going to be put in a harder position to make it through there bracket that's when it falls on the coaches not fighting for there kids @ the seeding meeting but I also seen kids put in the best position to win & not make it but on a different subject when did they make a rule that you can't shake a refs hand before the match & that you can't pace back & forth I was talking to one of the kids from Kalaheo & asked him why in his semi finals match he didn't shake the refs hand & do his pace before starting his match he told me that one of the refs told him if he tries to shake there hand or pace that they will disqualify from the state tournament
That did happen or so I was told in one of the girls bracket. I asked the girls parents how it was so and they replied top 3 in league was seeded the rest was random. Her coach argued it but they had decided to go random from the start so they wasnt going to change it for her or go back and rework the brackets that was completed. So whats good for one is not good for all! So if youre the champ or runner up maybe 3rd thats great but 4-8th is random so if the 4th placer gets a fishtail and 8th or even 10 gets into the bracket then so be it? This is not how it should be. 10th really didnt even make it to states no offence to that player. To be bracketed over a solid 4th is crazy. Hopefully next season will be different.

Not shaking the refs hand is optional, some kids have respect and its a personal choice. To be warned about being disqualified is crazy! Maybe a short, we dont shake players hands due to___but a threat of disqualification is crazy! We can go on and on about refs and blame them, they make mistakes and Ive seen it happen but we cant have the sport without them. What we need is more younger refs to come out and get training. Some are geting older maybe slower to check pins.
I totally agree we need to get some younger refs out there with some real training. Nothing against the knowledge of our older generation of refs, but it is true, they are way too slow in getting down to look for pins and everything else. Maybe having a separate referee's organization would be a way to up the level instead of the monopoly that exists now?

Mobbin
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Re: 2018-19 Wrestling season

Post by Mobbin »

@FlyingSquirrel - the officials are a huge problem with what's wrong with high school wrestling in Hawaii. I would say that the only "good" officials are Stan and Bryan. The rest of them do not know the sport. What's even more disturbing is that a lot of these guys never wrestled at even a high school state qualifier level. This matters because you have guys who don't know what they're doing making decisions that can impact kids' lives. If you compare the way they officiate to the mainland or college officials, it is night and day. Their knowledge of the rules is poor, they take way to long to call pins, and they don't protect the wrestlers during the matches. To top it all off, the officials here are never held accountable for their "bad" calls because there is no way to do so. I understand that they have a hard job, but they should at least be humble and show that they are trying to improve.

ringworm
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Re: 2018-19 Wrestling season

Post by ringworm »

Mobbin wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:36 pm @FlyingSquirrel - the officials are a huge problem with what's wrong with high school wrestling in Hawaii. I would say that the only "good" officials are Stan and Bryan. The rest of them do not know the sport. What's even more disturbing is that a lot of these guys never wrestled at even a high school state qualifier level. This matters because you have guys who don't know what they're doing making decisions that can impact kids' lives. If you compare the way they officiate to the mainland or college officials, it is night and day. Their knowledge of the rules is poor, they take way to long to call pins, and they don't protect the wrestlers during the matches. To top it all off, the officials here are never held accountable for their "bad" calls because there is no way to do so. I understand that they have a hard job, but they should at least be humble and show that they are trying to improve.
I know its hard and high school dont use replays and such but how hard would it be to do it. A regular dual meet maybe not that important but championship tourneys why not? Not just wrestling but football, basket ball etc. Judo on the national level has went to using recordings along with refs and if they need to look at the tape they will and absolutely change a call if deemed. Maybe time wont allow it or coaches will protest every call but at some point how does it get fixed? Judgement calls ok, but stuff like going out of bounds, or player is in the circle but called out can change the outcome of a match. I seen the 97 girls match and wasnt sure but it seems like they gave 2 point takedown after the whistle. I cant say it was good or not but the time ran out, the coaches and refs talked and gave the 2 after the 3rd ended. Score went 5-7 instead of going to 4th period. Again maybe that was correct but it wasnt a clean call this was after the end of 3rd tied 5-5. Simple review could give a second look. Just my 2 cents.

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Re: 2018-19 Wrestling season

Post by HS Football Fanatic »

Again, you wrestling guys are amazing. I mean, you guys are showing as much passion for your sport as we football guys are for ours. And, they say that football is the biggest sport in high school.

ringworm
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Re: 2018-19 Wrestling season

Post by ringworm »

HS Football Fanatic wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:53 pm Again, you wrestling guys are amazing. I mean, you guys are showing as much passion for your sport as we football guys are for ours. And, they say that football is the biggest sport in high school.
I think individual sports are different in a way. You train with your team and you have coaches but when you step on that mat it's all you at that point. You have nobody but yourself to make it happen. You can have the best support but in the end you have to fight in there. When refs make mistakes it can cost a match. And I've seen it cost state titles before. So yes the passion is there because what these kids go through to be at that level. The endless years of training and playing to prepare for 4 years of play cause most don't go on after high school. The mistakes will happen but we really need to have some new guys get trained and on the mat. It's terrible when a ref will not take a knee to see if I good pin is taking place. Sometimes they take 3 seconds before they even start counting back points. Again we need refs but more physically capable and experienced ones will greatly help the players and the sport

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Re: 2018-19 Wrestling season

Post by HS Football Fanatic »

ringworm wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:08 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:53 pm Again, you wrestling guys are amazing. I mean, you guys are showing as much passion for your sport as we football guys are for ours. And, they say that football is the biggest sport in high school.
I think individual sports are different in a way. You train with your team and you have coaches but when you step on that mat it's all you at that point. You have nobody but yourself to make it happen. You can have the best support but in the end you have to fight in there. When refs make mistakes it can cost a match. And I've seen it cost state titles before. So yes the passion is there because what these kids go through to be at that level. The endless years of training and playing to prepare for 4 years of play cause most don't go on after high school. The mistakes will happen but we really need to have some new guys get trained and on the mat. It's terrible when a ref will not take a knee to see if I good pin is taking place. Sometimes they take 3 seconds before they even start counting back points. Again we need refs but more physically capable and experienced ones will greatly help the players and the sport
@ringworm: When I was in high school, an assistant football coach told me that wrestling practice was just as tough as football practice; very gruelling.

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Re: 2018-19 Wrestling season

Post by FlyingSquirrel808 »

HS Football Fanatic wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:10 pm
ringworm wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:08 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:53 pm Again, you wrestling guys are amazing. I mean, you guys are showing as much passion for your sport as we football guys are for ours. And, they say that football is the biggest sport in high school.
I think individual sports are different in a way. You train with your team and you have coaches but when you step on that mat it's all you at that point. You have nobody but yourself to make it happen. You can have the best support but in the end you have to fight in there. When refs make mistakes it can cost a match. And I've seen it cost state titles before. So yes the passion is there because what these kids go through to be at that level. The endless years of training and playing to prepare for 4 years of play cause most don't go on after high school. The mistakes will happen but we really need to have some new guys get trained and on the mat. It's terrible when a ref will not take a knee to see if I good pin is taking place. Sometimes they take 3 seconds before they even start counting back points. Again we need refs but more physically capable and experienced ones will greatly help the players and the sport
@ringworm: When I was in high school, an assistant football coach told me that wrestling practice was just as tough as football practice; very gruelling.
I played football since I was 9 and thought that football practice was the toughest thing out there...and then I started wrestling. Hands down, way harder than any football practice. Every year, the football guys are the first ones to quit wrestling because it is simply too hard. I don't want to bash football at all, because that was my first love, and there are a handful of guys that are tough enough to do both sports. However, I've realized that in wrestling, there's nobody else to put the accountability on other than yourself, and that's the part that many football players can't handle.

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Re: 2018-19 Wrestling season

Post by Mobbin »

ringworm wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:33 pm
Mobbin wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:36 pm @FlyingSquirrel - the officials are a huge problem with what's wrong with high school wrestling in Hawaii. I would say that the only "good" officials are Stan and Bryan. The rest of them do not know the sport. What's even more disturbing is that a lot of these guys never wrestled at even a high school state qualifier level. This matters because you have guys who don't know what they're doing making decisions that can impact kids' lives. If you compare the way they officiate to the mainland or college officials, it is night and day. Their knowledge of the rules is poor, they take way to long to call pins, and they don't protect the wrestlers during the matches. To top it all off, the officials here are never held accountable for their "bad" calls because there is no way to do so. I understand that they have a hard job, but they should at least be humble and show that they are trying to improve.
I know its hard and high school dont use replays and such but how hard would it be to do it. A regular dual meet maybe not that important but championship tourneys why not? Not just wrestling but football, basket ball etc. Judo on the national level has went to using recordings along with refs and if they need to look at the tape they will and absolutely change a call if deemed. Maybe time wont allow it or coaches will protest every call but at some point how does it get fixed? Judgement calls ok, but stuff like going out of bounds, or player is in the circle but called out can change the outcome of a match. I seen the 97 girls match and wasnt sure but it seems like they gave 2 point takedown after the whistle. I cant say it was good or not but the time ran out, the coaches and refs talked and gave the 2 after the 3rd ended. Score went 5-7 instead of going to 4th period. Again maybe that was correct but it wasnt a clean call this was after the end of 3rd tied 5-5. Simple review could give a second look. Just my 2 cents.
There is a replay/challenge system in place on both the NCAA Div 1 and UWW (international) level. HHSAA could adopt something similar but let's face it, they won't due to incompetence. Having a replay/challenge system would be a good idea but it will never work because the root of the problem is the officials themselves. Generally, the officials in Hawaii don't understand the sport, make bad calls, show bias towards or against certain teams/kids, and are too arrogant to even acknowledge that they're the problem.

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Re: 2018-19 Wrestling season

Post by HS Football Fanatic »

Mobbin wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:08 am
ringworm wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:33 pm
Mobbin wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:36 pm @FlyingSquirrel - the officials are a huge problem with what's wrong with high school wrestling in Hawaii. I would say that the only "good" officials are Stan and Bryan. The rest of them do not know the sport. What's even more disturbing is that a lot of these guys never wrestled at even a high school state qualifier level. This matters because you have guys who don't know what they're doing making decisions that can impact kids' lives. If you compare the way they officiate to the mainland or college officials, it is night and day. Their knowledge of the rules is poor, they take way to long to call pins, and they don't protect the wrestlers during the matches. To top it all off, the officials here are never held accountable for their "bad" calls because there is no way to do so. I understand that they have a hard job, but they should at least be humble and show that they are trying to improve.
I know its hard and high school dont use replays and such but how hard would it be to do it. A regular dual meet maybe not that important but championship tourneys why not? Not just wrestling but football, basket ball etc. Judo on the national level has went to using recordings along with refs and if they need to look at the tape they will and absolutely change a call if deemed. Maybe time wont allow it or coaches will protest every call but at some point how does it get fixed? Judgement calls ok, but stuff like going out of bounds, or player is in the circle but called out can change the outcome of a match. I seen the 97 girls match and wasnt sure but it seems like they gave 2 point takedown after the whistle. I cant say it was good or not but the time ran out, the coaches and refs talked and gave the 2 after the 3rd ended. Score went 5-7 instead of going to 4th period. Again maybe that was correct but it wasnt a clean call this was after the end of 3rd tied 5-5. Simple review could give a second look. Just my 2 cents.
There is a replay/challenge system in place on both the NCAA Div 1 and UWW (international) level. HHSAA could adopt something similar but let's face it, they won't due to incompetence. Having a replay/challenge system would be a good idea but it will never work because the root of the problem is the officials themselves. Generally, the officials in Hawaii don't understand the sport, make bad calls, show bias towards or against certain teams/kids, and are too arrogant to even acknowledge that they're the problem.
@Mobbin: How come Hawaii's wrestling officials suck like that? No wonder you wrestling guys are disgusted.

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Re: 2018-19 Wrestling season

Post by OldManJenkins »

HS Football Fanatic wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:10 pm
ringworm wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:08 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:53 pm Again, you wrestling guys are amazing. I mean, you guys are showing as much passion for your sport as we football guys are for ours. And, they say that football is the biggest sport in high school.
I think individual sports are different in a way. You train with your team and you have coaches but when you step on that mat it's all you at that point. You have nobody but yourself to make it happen. You can have the best support but in the end you have to fight in there. When refs make mistakes it can cost a match. And I've seen it cost state titles before. So yes the passion is there because what these kids go through to be at that level. The endless years of training and playing to prepare for 4 years of play cause most don't go on after high school. The mistakes will happen but we really need to have some new guys get trained and on the mat. It's terrible when a ref will not take a knee to see if I good pin is taking place. Sometimes they take 3 seconds before they even start counting back points. Again we need refs but more physically capable and experienced ones will greatly help the players and the sport
@ringworm: When I was in high school, an assistant football coach told me that wrestling practice was just as tough as football practice; very gruelling.
Football fanatic, Thank you for your interest in wrestling, one of the oldest and greatest sports. But please don't compare wrestling to football. It's not even close. The biggest panties in wrestling are the football players. I challenge any football player to make it through 1 6 minute match with their "grueling" practice
The Almighty GrumpyOldManJenkins coaching from right field is back.. and older

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Re: 2018-19 Wrestling season

Post by HS Football Fanatic »

OldManJenkins wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:30 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:10 pm
ringworm wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:08 pm

I think individual sports are different in a way. You train with your team and you have coaches but when you step on that mat it's all you at that point. You have nobody but yourself to make it happen. You can have the best support but in the end you have to fight in there. When refs make mistakes it can cost a match. And I've seen it cost state titles before. So yes the passion is there because what these kids go through to be at that level. The endless years of training and playing to prepare for 4 years of play cause most don't go on after high school. The mistakes will happen but we really need to have some new guys get trained and on the mat. It's terrible when a ref will not take a knee to see if I good pin is taking place. Sometimes they take 3 seconds before they even start counting back points. Again we need refs but more physically capable and experienced ones will greatly help the players and the sport
@ringworm: When I was in high school, an assistant football coach told me that wrestling practice was just as tough as football practice; very gruelling.
Football fanatic, Thank you for your interest in wrestling, one of the oldest and greatest sports. But please don't compare wrestling to football. It's not even close. The biggest panties in wrestling are the football players. I challenge any football player to make it through 1 6 minute match with their "grueling" practice
@OldManJenkins: When I was in high school, I always felt kind of intimidated by football players. A lot of them were big, and at football practice I'd see them run, hit each other, and grunt. What kind of intimidated me about the wrestlers was that most of them were muscular.

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