2018-2019 Boy's Basketball Thread

[Naz]

@Naz: OK, the ILH player of the year was Kamata, of D1 Maryknoll School, right? Well, is Kamata a better player than Ng, of D2 St Francis School? It is possible for an individual D2 player to be better than an individual D1 player, right? After all, what if the best player in the state just happened to be playing for a D2 school?

To answer your question, I think there should be some context to what the player has actually accomplished when giving out these awards. It's obvious I emphasize playing in the highest division but for the record, Saint Francis played D1 this season which allowed the ILH to gain 3 state tournament spots. If this was the "Most Scoringest Player Award" then yes I can see how this guy ran away with it. Kamata was ILH player of the year AND state tournament M.V.P. He lost it to a guy who didn't even play a single second in a division one tournament. In no realm will that ever make sense to me. Media/coaches who voted only cared about stats (points) regardless of accomplishment (or lack of). Take a kid who is scoring 9 or less ppg for Maryknoll, Punahou, or 'Iolani. Put them on a team with their dad on the bench and let them shoot most of the shots without worry of coming out the game. To me, a lot of kids would have thrived in the system designed for this kid to be the "man".

[HS Football Fanatic]

@Naz: OK, the ILH player of the year was Kamata, of D1 Maryknoll School, right? Well, is Kamata a better player than Ng, of D2 St Francis School? It is possible for an individual D2 player to be better than an individual D1 player, right? After all, what if the best player in the state just happened to be playing for a D2 school?

To answer your question, I don't think the award should ever go to a D2 player. For the record, Saint Francis played D1 this season which allowed the ILH to gain 3 state tournament spots. If this was the "Most Scoringest Player Award" then yes I can see how this guy clearly ran away with it. Kamata was ILH player of the year AND state tournament M.V.P. He lost it to a guy who didn't even play a single second in a division one tournament. In no realm will that ever make sense to me. People who voted only cared about stats (points) regardless of accomplishment (or lack of).

@Naz: Oh, that's right, I stand corrected; St Francis School was indeed D1 this year. But, it still bothers me that if the best player plays for a D2 school, he should "never" be State POY. I don't understand that. If he is in fact the best, it shouldn't matter which school he plays for, right? He's the same player, no matter which school he's at. Besides, St Francis School was D1 this year. (I guess I'm being a bit stubborn here in part because I do prefer St Francis School to Maryknoll School.)

[Naz]

@Naz: Oh, that's right, I stand corrected; St Francis School was indeed D1 this year. But, it still bothers me that if the best player plays for a D2 school, he should "never" be State POY. I don't understand that. If he is in fact the best, it shouldn't matter which school he plays for, right?

Because there is a clear difference between talent in Division 1 and 2. Put a guy from Maryknoll, Punahou, or 'Iolani's varsity team who averaged 8 ppg to play for a team where his dad is on the bench and won't come out and is allowed to take the majority of shots without conscience. Oh by the way, his competition is teams like Hanalani, Hawaii Baptist, Lanakila Baptist, Le Jardin, etc. etc. You don't think those types of kids would've flourished in those systems as well? This state only salivated about this kids ability to put up points. That's what he did his sophomore and junior years. In his senior year, he finally played at the highest division but he didn't play like 10 games due to injury and couldn't lead his team to the state tournament. The points need to have some substance behind them and for me not leading your team to the state tourney lost him this award in my view.

[HS Football Fanatic]

@Naz: Oh, that's right, I stand corrected; St Francis School was indeed D1 this year. But, it still bothers me that if the best player plays for a D2 school, he should "never" be State POY. I don't understand that. If he is in fact the best, it shouldn't matter which school he plays for, right?

Because there is a clear difference between talent in Division 1 and 2. Put a guy from Maryknoll, Punahou, or 'Iolani's varsity team who averaged 8 ppg to play for a team where his dad is on the bench and won't come out and is allowed to take the majority of shots without conscience. Oh by the way, his competition is teams like Hanalani, Hawaii Baptist, Lanakila Baptist, Le Jardin, etc. etc. You don't think those types of kids would've flourished in those systems as well? This state only salivated about this kids ability to put up points. That's what he did his sophomore and junior years. In his senior year, he finally played at the highest division but he didn't play like 10 games due to injury and couldn't lead his team to the state tournament. The points need to have some substance behind them and for me not leading your team to the state tourney lost him this award in my view.

@Naz: Well, OK. My concern now is that if what you say is true, blue-chip players won't want to play for a D2 school. That bothers me; it seems unfair somehow. (By the way, I edited my previous post while you were responding to it. You can go ahead and note the difference; I just added some things to fine-tune it.)

[Naz]

@Naz: Well, OK. My concern now is that if what you say is true, blue-chip players won't want to play for a D2 school. That bothers me; it seems unfair somehow. (By the way, I edited my previous post while you were responding to it. You can go ahead and note the difference; I just added some things to fine-tune it.)

The ILH didn't even feel he was the best player in the league when they voted for their league awards. It went to Kamata from Maryknoll. Then, Kamata won the state tourney m.v.p. To me, if you win both of those awards in a season, 9/10 you should be the Hawai'i state player of the year. But to get beat out of it by a guy who played one year D1 and didn't log a second of state tournament time is a slap in the face.

[HS Football Fanatic]

@Naz: Well, OK. My concern now is that if what you say is true, blue-chip players won't want to play for a D2 school. That bothers me; it seems unfair somehow. (By the way, I edited my previous post while you were responding to it. You can go ahead and note the difference; I just added some things to fine-tune it.)

The ILH didn't even feel he was the best player in the league when they voted for their league awards. It went to Kamata from Maryknoll. Then, Kamata won the state tourney m.v.p. To me, if you win both of those awards in a season, 9/10 you should be the Hawai'i state player of the year. But to get beat out of it by a guy who played one year D1 and didn't log a second of state tournament time is a slap in the face.

@Naz: OK. Now your position is even more convincing. I guess what might have swayed the Star-Advertiser is that game in which Ng scored over 40 points. Yes, you mentioned in a previous post that point-scoring isn't everything, but it's definitely something.

[gopunahou]

I think the SA gave Ng the award because of his stats. They also may have given St. Francis a "sympathy vote."

[Neighbor]

Ng, along with the Pearl City soccer girl being named players of the year just shows that the state tournament is irrelevant to the local media. How can neither of them play a lick of a second in the biggest part of the season and yet still being named the best player for the entire season. No make sense at all

[HS Football Fanatic]

I think the SA gave Ng the award because of his stats. They also may have given St. Francis a "sympathy vote."

@gopunahou: Well, I kind of doubt that St Francis School got a sympathy vote just because the school is closing. I suspect it was all on the stats, especially his scoring over 40 points in one of the games.

[Hooper]

Last year I didn't think Ng deserved player of the year because he was playing D2. Tolu deserved POY. This year, even though St. Francis didn't make the state tournament, I feel like Ng deserved it. I understand that he played for a coach and a system that benefitted him; however, you can't hold that against the player. Maryknoll and Punahou especially, rotate players so often kids that play on these teams will never put up the kind of stats that Ng did. Kids that play at these schools understand this, and if they don't, they end up transferring out.

I'm guessing the SA goes by points per game and name recognition to determine this award. Although I disagree with many of the top 15 most years, I also understand that this is a challenging task. I actually prefer scoring live's all state selections because they break it down between D1 and D2.

[HS Football Fanatic]

Ng, along with the Pearl City soccer girl being named players of the year just shows that the state tournament is irrelevant to the local media. How can neither of them play a lick of a second in the biggest part of the season and yet still being named the best player for the entire season. No make sense at all

@Neighbor: Well, I guess on one level, what you say is true. But at the same time, if the best player in the state happens to be playing for a school that didn't make the state tourney, is it that player's fault? After all, even the best player in the state can't do it all by himself. Ng couldn't get St Francis School into States all by himself; there were 4 other players who had to help. In Pearl City High's case, Fontes suffered an injury that prevented her from playing in the state tourney. But what if she still actually is the best girls' soccer player in the state on O? (In girls' soccer, Fontes was selected Offensive POY, while another girl--Carley Park of Kamehameha Schools--was selected Defensive POY.)

[bandits1]

^^^Fontes led the state in goals-scored despite missing the entire state tourney and she's the all-time leading scorer on the USA U-17 national team -- she's crystal-clearly the best offensive player in the state, period, end of discussion.

[Neighbor]

To be Player of the Year, you should at least make it to state semifinals or be totally dominant like how Tolu Smith was with basketball last year.

[HS Football Fanatic]

To be Player of the Year, you should at least make it to state semifinals or be totally dominant like how Tolu Smith was with basketball last year.

@Neighbor: I get what you're saying, but what if the player who was indeed the best player, played for a school that didn't make it to State semis? Take the Park girl, for example, who plays for Kamehameha. She was named defensive POY, and what if she was indeed the best defensive player in the state. Suppose she was injured about the same time that Pearl City's Fontes was, and didn't play in States. Should she not be name defensive POY? I kind of think that if a player really is the best in defense, she shouldn't be blamed if her school didn't make it to, say, the semis. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if a player is the best in the state, it shouldn't matter which school she plays for, nor should it matter how well the school does in the sport. I feel that way because one player can't win the game all by herself or himself. If Park had played for some other school, she's still the same player. If she's truly the best defensive player in soccer, should it really matter how far her school got? What if every other player on Kamehameha's team sucked, for example. She is still the best defensive player in the state, right?

[bandits1]

To be clear, Fontes won ScoringLive's Offensive Player Of The Year.

I'm gonna have to mostly agree with HS Football Fanatic here, the POY should be the best player in their sport regardless of how far their TEAM goes in the state tourney or even if they don't make it into the tourney. Fontes missed the OIA Championship game and the entire state tourney, which gave the players on Kamehameha and Campbell, the two teams that made it to the state championship game, an extra 3 games to catch her up in scoring but nobody could do it. Nobody in the state tourney could do it. That's pretty dominant if you ask me.

We're not talking about an MVP award, we're talking about best offensive player. Even if was simply best player all-around, it's clearly Fontes. As far as I know she's the only Hawaii female soccer player in some time to be on a legit Olympic track. Let's just hope she can rebound 100% from her knee injury.