Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

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HS Football Fanatic wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:12 pm
ChadFukuoka wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:18 am
HS Football Fanatic wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:43 pm

@TheNewNORM:

Well, McKinley High hasn't had a strong team since '04; that was the last year they made the OIA playoffs. They had a fairly decent team in '13. But, it's been pretty disastrous for them since then. They had a horrible season in '15; that year they lost to Kahuku High, 70-something to 0, and they lost to Waianae like 90 to 0 (yes, ninety to 0). I mean, McKinley alumni have seen their alma mater get kicked-around for the most part, for the past forty years. That's a long time. I don't think Kale can do a whole lot about it. I mean, he's not God. For one thing, McKinley High is in D2. Kale left an Open school, Punahou, and is taking the reins of a D2 school. I don't think he can recruit his way out of this predicament; how do you recruit players to a D2 school? Talk about Mission Impossible. I've heard McKinley High has some big kids, O-lineman types. However, not all of them are even going out for the team, I've heard. And, it's not because of Kale. I've heard they had the same problem before he got there. I mean, you never know, but I'm sorry to say that you'll probably be disappointed by McKinley High's football program. It's just one of those things. I don't think there's a whole lot that Kale can do. He recruited his way to prominence at Punahou School, but I simply don't see it happening at McKinley High.
While McKinley hit rock bottom in that 2015 season, they probably weren’t the worst Hawaii football team ever. I know on the Big Island, Kau was absolutely dreadful in their 2012 season. They lost to Konawaena 86-0, and 91-8. They also got blown out and mercy ruled by some other Big Island teams that year. And who could forget Hilo’s 104-0 victory over Waiakea. I never thought it would be possible to score in the triple digits, especially with a running clock in the second half. I actually thought the score was a typo, and it was supposed to be 14-0.
@ChadFukuoka: Well, you're talking statewide. But, for Oahu, that's the worst licking in high school football in modern times. (By "modern", I mean over the past 70 years.)
I’m sure St Louis came close a few times when they played PAC-5 and Damien in the 90’s. I don’t think there was a running clock then either. It’s nice hopefully we won’t see too much of this anymore since there are 3 divisions. It must be a complete confidence and pride killer to lose by so much.

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

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@ChadFukuoka: If HCs had enough sense to forfeit a game, we wouldn't need three divisions. Forfeit during the game even, if the score is getting out of hand. When a school is in D2, in particular, that is already a school-pride damager. Let there be only two divisions: Open and D1. At each school in D1, the AD needs to permit the coach to forfeit any game--even one that's already begun--with the proviso that the forfeiting school must play at least one full quarter. The forfeiting school's AD can request an explanation from the HC afterwards. Better yet, the HC could inform the AD ahead of time that he may have to forfeit the game while it's in progress, and explain why. Perhaps the HC will feel that he doesn't have enough players. Currently there's an assumption that a school must have at least 25 players. OK; what if a school starts the game with 25 players, but loses one or more to injury during the game? If the injuries and/or the score get(s) out of hand, the HC should be empowered to forfeit the game. He should be allowed to explain his decision to the AD later. Another possibility is that a school's players are way smaller than the other school's. The AD would surely be aware of that already. Those are the two main reasons for blowouts, right? Too few players, or players who are too small, or a combination of the two. If it's not so much a matter of size or numbers, but a severe talent/skill deficit, the HC should be empowered to forfeit the game after one quarter, if he feels the score is becoming too embarrassing, and is likely to become more so. Just off the cuff, I'd recommend that a deficit of 55 points be the magic number; that's a nice, round number. If the first quarter has ended, and the trailing school is at least 55 points behind, I'd recommend that the HC of the trailing school, forfeit. Don't subject that school, its students, and its alumni to further/greater embarrassment/humiliation.

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

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HS Football Fanatic wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:12 pm @ChadFukuoka: If HCs had enough sense to forfeit a game, we wouldn't need three divisions. Forfeit during the game even, if the score is getting out of hand. When a school is in D2, in particular, that is already a school-pride damager. Let there be only two divisions: Open and D1. At each school in D1, the AD needs to permit the coach to forfeit any game--even one that's already begun--with the proviso that the forfeiting school must play at least one full quarter. The forfeiting school's AD can request an explanation from the HC afterwards. Better yet, the HC could inform the AD ahead of time that he may have to forfeit the game while it's in progress, and explain why. Perhaps the HC will feel that he doesn't have enough players. Currently there's an assumption that a school must have at least 25 players. OK; what if a school starts the game with 25 players, but loses one or more to injury during the game? If the injuries and/or the score get(s) out of hand, the HC should be empowered to forfeit the game. He should be allowed to explain his decision to the AD later. Another possibility is that a school's players are way smaller than the other school's. The AD would surely be aware of that already. Those are the two main reasons for blowouts, right? Too few players, or players who are too small, or a combination of the two. If it's not so much a matter of size or numbers, but a severe talent/skill deficit, the HC should be empowered to forfeit the game after one quarter, if he feels the score is becoming too embarrassing, and is likely to become more so. Just off the cuff, I'd recommend that a deficit of 55 points be the magic number; that's a nice, round number. If the first quarter has ended, and the trailing school is at least 55 points behind, I'd recommend that the HC of the trailing school, forfeit. Don't subject that school, its students, and its alumni to further/greater embarrassment/humiliation.
I think you mean 35 point deficits, which is when the mercy rule goes into effect, but only from the second half onwards.

If a school has to forfeit because they are losing by so much, it shows they aren’t on the same level as their opponent. I think 3 divisions is perfect for Oahu. You can’t really say any matchup creates a true imbalance on paper, to where a school would consider forfeiting. With 2 divisions, I could still see a small roster school like Kalaheo having to forfeit against someone like Moanalua or Kailua or Waipahu. With how the divisions are currently aligned, and with schools able to move between them, I think the ridiculous blowouts are hopefully a thing of the past.

Forfeiting because you’re losing by a lot is kind of bad sportsmanship to me. No one likes losing, but if you’re physically able to finish out the game without any safety issues, a team should at least try to. I personally don’t think most school’s fans would want to see their team walk off the field, and have the PA announcer tell them the coach decided to forfeit. I also think a lot of coaches abide by this “unwritten rule” that you don’t forfeit or quit the game on purpose.

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

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Updated Top Ten,

1.Kamehameha 3-1 Beat St.Louis. Winner of St.Louis-Punahou next for ILH Open title in two weeks.
2.Kahuku 1-0 Beat Kapolei 41-7. Red Raiders move up one spot.
3.Mililani 1-0 49-6 win over Waianae. Trojans move up one spot.
4.St.Louis 2-3 Crusaders fall two spots after third loss this year. Punahou next in ILH Open playoffs.
5.Punahou 1-3 DNP. St.Louis next.
6.Iolani 6-0 DNP.
7.Campbell 1-0 Beat Farrington 38-6
8.Hilo 0-0 DNP.
9.Lahainaluna 0-0 DNP.
10.Farrington 0-1 Drop three places after loss to Campbell.

Next in : Leilehua,Moanalua. Maybe. Have to see how they play next weekend.

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

Post by TheNewNORM »

unpaid wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 5:02 am Updated Top Ten,

1.Kamehameha 3-1 Beat St.Louis. Winner of St.Louis-Punahou next for ILH Open title in two weeks.
2.Kahuku 1-0 Beat Kapolei 41-7. Red Raiders move up one spot.
3.Mililani 1-0 49-6 win over Waianae. Trojans move up one spot.
4.St.Louis 2-3 Crusaders fall two spots after third loss this year. Punahou next in ILH Open playoffs.
5.Punahou 1-3 DNP. St.Louis next.
6.Iolani 6-0 DNP.
7.Campbell 1-0 Beat Farrington 38-6
8.Hilo 0-0 DNP.
9.Lahainaluna 0-0 DNP.
10.Farrington 0-1 Drop three places after loss to Campbell.

Next in : Leilehua,Moanalua. Maybe. Have to see how they play next weekend.
My top ten

1. Kamehameha
2. Kahuku
3. St.Louis
4. Punahou
5. Mililani
6. Campbell
7. Iolani
8. Lahainaluna
9. Hilo
10. Kapolei

Tigers lose to Waialua on a last minute field goal, 14-15. I love the fact that Coach Ane goes bottom public school program after years of recruiting top hawaii athletes. Good luck McKinley.

One more note, Kahuku does have a run game with Kaluna, Kanoa-Tangaro, Taulapapa, and Ah You. So that is coming.

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

Post by HS Football Fanatic »

ChadFukuoka wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:54 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:12 pm @ChadFukuoka: If HCs had enough sense to forfeit a game, we wouldn't need three divisions. Forfeit during the game even, if the score is getting out of hand. When a school is in D2, in particular, that is already a school-pride damager. Let there be only two divisions: Open and D1. At each school in D1, the AD needs to permit the coach to forfeit any game--even one that's already begun--with the proviso that the forfeiting school must play at least one full quarter. The forfeiting school's AD can request an explanation from the HC afterwards. Better yet, the HC could inform the AD ahead of time that he may have to forfeit the game while it's in progress, and explain why. Perhaps the HC will feel that he doesn't have enough players. Currently there's an assumption that a school must have at least 25 players. OK; what if a school starts the game with 25 players, but loses one or more to injury during the game? If the injuries and/or the score get(s) out of hand, the HC should be empowered to forfeit the game. He should be allowed to explain his decision to the AD later. Another possibility is that a school's players are way smaller than the other school's. The AD would surely be aware of that already. Those are the two main reasons for blowouts, right? Too few players, or players who are too small, or a combination of the two. If it's not so much a matter of size or numbers, but a severe talent/skill deficit, the HC should be empowered to forfeit the game after one quarter, if he feels the score is becoming too embarrassing, and is likely to become more so. Just off the cuff, I'd recommend that a deficit of 55 points be the magic number; that's a nice, round number. If the first quarter has ended, and the trailing school is at least 55 points behind, I'd recommend that the HC of the trailing school, forfeit. Don't subject that school, its students, and its alumni to further/greater embarrassment/humiliation.
I think you mean 35 point deficits, which is when the mercy rule goes into effect, but only from the second half onwards.

If a school has to forfeit because they are losing by so much, it shows they aren’t on the same level as their opponent. I think 3 divisions is perfect for Oahu. You can’t really say any matchup creates a true imbalance on paper, to where a school would consider forfeiting. With 2 divisions, I could still see a small roster school like Kalaheo having to forfeit against someone like Moanalua or Kailua or Waipahu. With how the divisions are currently aligned, and with schools able to move between them, I think the ridiculous blowouts are hopefully a thing of the past.

Forfeiting because you’re losing by a lot is kind of bad sportsmanship to me. No one likes losing, but if you’re physically able to finish out the game without any safety issues, a team should at least try to. I personally don’t think most school’s fans would want to see their team walk off the field, and have the PA announcer tell them the coach decided to forfeit. I also think a lot of coaches abide by this “unwritten rule” that you don’t forfeit or quit the game on purpose.
@Chad Fukuoka:

But if you're in D2, what does that say? Everyone knows: You're a very weak school. There are not one, but two divisions above you. I think that's demoralizing from the word go, before your school has even taken a single snap. I'd still go with two divisions: Open and D1. It's less embarrassing to say your school is in D1 than it is to say it's in D2. And, as I said in my previous post, any school in D1 should be allowed to forfeit a game, even after the game has begun.

If your school is losing the game 70-0, and it's the 3rd quarter say, the question arises: Is it "bad sportsmanship" to forfeit the game at that point, or is it a move to prevent further damage to the honor and dignity of the losing school? As the saying goes: Discretion is the better part of valor. Also, if your school is losing 70-0, the situation could quickly become a safety issue. The losing players get demoralized, and that demoralization can translate into not caring as much about how they tumble and land during plays, for example. That translates directly into injuries. I remember the issue coming to the forefront in the ILH in the late-'80s, when St Louis was pummeling Damien and Iolani by 63 or 70 points or more.

I guess the crux of my argument is that a D2 classification is demoralizing on its face. Eliminate D2, merge its schools into D1. Allow the HCs to forfeit the game at any time after the first quarter. In my previous post, I recommended a gap of 55 points as a "forfeit threshold". Too low? OK; 60 points, then. Another nice, round figure.

So, going back to my hypothetical situation: It's the 3rd quarter, and you're sitting in the stands while your alma mater is behind, 70-0. You'd like the game to continue to the end? By that point, the other school's coach probably already has his relievers in, but even they are still scoring points. When Waianae beat McKinley 90-0 seven years ago, I'm pretty sure the Waianae HC had just about emptied his bench, but even the relievers kept scoring. Look, no HC can tell any of his players, "Don't score". I'm convinced the McKinley HC should have forfeited the game way before. So, McKinley's fans were happier seeing their school lose 90-0, then they would have been had the game been called well before, when the score wasn't nearly as bad? I doubt it, honestly.

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

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unpaid wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 5:02 am Updated Top Ten,

1.Kamehameha 3-1 Beat St.Louis. Winner of St.Louis-Punahou next for ILH Open title in two weeks.
2.Kahuku 1-0 Beat Kapolei 41-7. Red Raiders move up one spot.
3.Mililani 1-0 49-6 win over Waianae. Trojans move up one spot.
4.St.Louis 2-3 Crusaders fall two spots after third loss this year. Punahou next in ILH Open playoffs.
5.Punahou 1-3 DNP. St.Louis next.
6.Iolani 6-0 DNP.
7.Campbell 1-0 Beat Farrington 38-6
8.Hilo 0-0 DNP.
9.Lahainaluna 0-0 DNP.
10.Farrington 0-1 Drop three places after loss to Campbell.

Next in : Leilehua,Moanalua. Maybe. Have to see how they play next weekend.
@unpaid:

I get that St Louis has two losses, but those were very close losses: two and three points, respectively. And, both of those close losses came against Kamehameha, which is arguably the best team in the state at this point. Yes, at this point, Kahuku and Mililani are undefeated. But, neither school has played Kamehameha, nor have they played St Louis, for that matter. (Note: Kahuku played Kamehameha in a controlled scrimmage, and won decisively. But: Kamehameha didn't play any starters. So, that "victory" obviously has a very big asterisk next to it.) I have a strong hunch that St Louis can beat Kahuku and Mililani. St Louis might also yet beat Kamehameha, if they play them again.
I get that Iolani is unbeaten, but they haven't played any OIA D1 teams yet. Also, Campbell is in Open, and they smashed Farrington a day or two ago. I get that Farrington might not be that good, despite being in Open. But, I'm assuming that Farrington is huge on the O-line, as usual. If Farrington were to play Iolani, what would their O-line do to Iolani's undersized D-line? Seeing as Campbell beat Farrington by 32 points, can Iolani beat Campbell? Just some thoughts.

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

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TheNewNORM wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 5:29 pm
unpaid wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 5:02 am Updated Top Ten,

1.Kamehameha 3-1 Beat St.Louis. Winner of St.Louis-Punahou next for ILH Open title in two weeks.
2.Kahuku 1-0 Beat Kapolei 41-7. Red Raiders move up one spot.
3.Mililani 1-0 49-6 win over Waianae. Trojans move up one spot.
4.St.Louis 2-3 Crusaders fall two spots after third loss this year. Punahou next in ILH Open playoffs.
5.Punahou 1-3 DNP. St.Louis next.
6.Iolani 6-0 DNP.
7.Campbell 1-0 Beat Farrington 38-6
8.Hilo 0-0 DNP.
9.Lahainaluna 0-0 DNP.
10.Farrington 0-1 Drop three places after loss to Campbell.

Next in : Leilehua,Moanalua. Maybe. Have to see how they play next weekend.
My top ten

1. Kamehameha
2. Kahuku
3. St.Louis
4. Punahou
5. Mililani
6. Campbell
7. Iolani
8. Lahainaluna
9. Hilo
10. Kapolei

Tigers lose to Waialua on a last minute field goal, 14-15. I love the fact that Coach Ane goes bottom public school program after years of recruiting top hawaii athletes. Good luck McKinley.

One more note, Kahuku does have a run game with Kaluna, Kanoa-Tangaro, Taulapapa, and Ah You. So that is coming.
@TheNewNORM: McKinley had something like 230 pass yards. Their receivers dropped two TD passes. They could very well have won that game, 28-15. They don't have much of a run game, but they seem to have a very respectable pass game. McKinley might surprise some schools this year.

What's scary about Kahuku is that they have a pass game this year, too. Mililani had better watch out. When they play Kahuku, there's going to be a full-scale war on the field.
Last edited by HS Football Fanatic on Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

Post by ChadFukuoka »

HS Football Fanatic wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 5:37 pm
ChadFukuoka wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:54 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:12 pm @ChadFukuoka: If HCs had enough sense to forfeit a game, we wouldn't need three divisions. Forfeit during the game even, if the score is getting out of hand. When a school is in D2, in particular, that is already a school-pride damager. Let there be only two divisions: Open and D1. At each school in D1, the AD needs to permit the coach to forfeit any game--even one that's already begun--with the proviso that the forfeiting school must play at least one full quarter. The forfeiting school's AD can request an explanation from the HC afterwards. Better yet, the HC could inform the AD ahead of time that he may have to forfeit the game while it's in progress, and explain why. Perhaps the HC will feel that he doesn't have enough players. Currently there's an assumption that a school must have at least 25 players. OK; what if a school starts the game with 25 players, but loses one or more to injury during the game? If the injuries and/or the score get(s) out of hand, the HC should be empowered to forfeit the game. He should be allowed to explain his decision to the AD later. Another possibility is that a school's players are way smaller than the other school's. The AD would surely be aware of that already. Those are the two main reasons for blowouts, right? Too few players, or players who are too small, or a combination of the two. If it's not so much a matter of size or numbers, but a severe talent/skill deficit, the HC should be empowered to forfeit the game after one quarter, if he feels the score is becoming too embarrassing, and is likely to become more so. Just off the cuff, I'd recommend that a deficit of 55 points be the magic number; that's a nice, round number. If the first quarter has ended, and the trailing school is at least 55 points behind, I'd recommend that the HC of the trailing school, forfeit. Don't subject that school, its students, and its alumni to further/greater embarrassment/humiliation.
I think you mean 35 point deficits, which is when the mercy rule goes into effect, but only from the second half onwards.

If a school has to forfeit because they are losing by so much, it shows they aren’t on the same level as their opponent. I think 3 divisions is perfect for Oahu. You can’t really say any matchup creates a true imbalance on paper, to where a school would consider forfeiting. With 2 divisions, I could still see a small roster school like Kalaheo having to forfeit against someone like Moanalua or Kailua or Waipahu. With how the divisions are currently aligned, and with schools able to move between them, I think the ridiculous blowouts are hopefully a thing of the past.

Forfeiting because you’re losing by a lot is kind of bad sportsmanship to me. No one likes losing, but if you’re physically able to finish out the game without any safety issues, a team should at least try to. I personally don’t think most school’s fans would want to see their team walk off the field, and have the PA announcer tell them the coach decided to forfeit. I also think a lot of coaches abide by this “unwritten rule” that you don’t forfeit or quit the game on purpose.
@Chad Fukuoka:

But if you're in D2, what does that say? Everyone knows: You're a very weak school. There are not one, but two divisions above you. I think that's demoralizing from the word go, before your school has even taken a single snap. I'd still go with two divisions: Open and D1. It's less embarrassing to say your school is in D1 than it is to say it's in D2. And, as I said in my previous post, any school in D1 should be allowed to forfeit a game, even after the game has begun.

If your school is losing the game 70-0, and it's the 3rd quarter say, the question arises: Is it "bad sportsmanship" to forfeit the game at that point, or is it a move to prevent further damage to the honor and dignity of the losing school? As the saying goes: Discretion is the better part of valor. Also, if your school is losing 70-0, the situation could quickly become a safety issue. The losing players get demoralized, and that demoralization can translate into not caring as much about how they tumble and land during plays, for example. That translates directly into injuries. I remember the issue coming to the forefront in the ILH in the late-'80s, when St Louis was pummeling Damien and Iolani by 63 or 70 points or more.

I guess the crux of my argument is that a D2 classification is demoralizing on its face. Eliminate D2, merge its schools into D1. Allow the HCs to forfeit the game at any time after the first quarter. In my previous post, I recommended a gap of 55 points as a "forfeit threshold". Too low? OK; 60 points, then. Another nice, round figure.

So, going back to my hypothetical situation: It's the 3rd quarter, and you're sitting in the stands while your alma mater is behind, 70-0. You'd like the game to continue to the end? By that point, the other school's coach probably already has his relievers in, but even they are still scoring points. When Waianae beat McKinley 90-0 seven years ago, I'm pretty sure the Waianae HC had just about emptied his bench, but even the relievers kept scoring. Look, no HC can tell any of his players, "Don't score". I'm convinced the McKinley HC should have forfeited the game way before. So, McKinley's fans were happier seeing their school lose 90-0, then they would have been had the game been called well before, when the score wasn't nearly as bad? I doubt it, honestly.
I’d say it’s more demoralizing to go winless in a higher division, than to be competitive in a lower one. Using McKinley as an example, they lost on a last second field goal to Waialua. That shows they are about even with Waialua, and likely most other D2 teams. The blowouts you’re talking about might happen against a bigger and more skilled team like Moanalua or Kailua. McKinley might lose to those teams by 30, 40, 50 points. I’d say a blowout loss to a D1 team is worse than a close loss to a D2 team.

Maybe this year is a total rebuild since Coach Ane needs time to implement a new system from scratch, and hasn’t had time to do his local scouting in McKinley’s district. But let’s say he goes 4-4, 5-3, 6-2 at best in D2. That’s much better for fans. They could compete for a division title and at least make the D2 playoffs.

Some teams just don’t have the size of players, a big enough feeder system from the youth levels, a field with bleachers, etc, to play at the higher levels. Some schools are just small (maybe not McKinley, but definitely Kalaheo, Waialua, Nanakuli). Lower divisions exist to provide an even playing field for teams that fall into that category. In bigger states like California and Texas, there are a bunch of classifications. I believe Texas schools start from something like 1A for the tiny, rural schools, to 6A for the big city schools and nationally ranked programs. California has something like 13 different levels for the Southern California/Orange County areas. I’ sure for those fans, they just want to see their school be competitive and compete within their league.

The whole point of classifications is to deal with the talent and size disparity that exists if everyone played everyone. Kahuku would blow out Kalaheo 100-0, if there was no mercy rule. D2 exists so schools like Kalaheo, Waialua, Nanakuli, can compete against each other, and play against those at their size and skill level.

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

Post by gopunahou »

There is a way to beat St. Louis--if their offensive inconsistency continues, as well as their recent tendency to turn the ball over and commit penalties. We've also gotta keep them from burning us with a big play as much as possible.

If St. Louis fails to win the state championship (which is a strong possibility), will Cal Lee reassume the role of HC?
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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

Post by HS Football Fanatic »

@ChadFukuoka:

Well, the thing about Open is that almost none of the schools have a problem with size. At this point, it may very well be that Farrington or Kapolei might go winless. But, at least they're not taking a physical beating. But again, that's Open. I guess Farrington fans and Kapolei fans can enjoy seeing those schools' players get-in physical licks against the opposing schools' players.

As I had mention in an earlier post, McKinley might be better this year than some think. They had 230 yards passing against Waialua, and dropped two TD passes. So, HC Ane, I think, is already doing well. What can he do if his receivers dropped two TD passes in the game? I think he's put together a respectable pass game.

I don't think it's desirable to have 13 different divisions, even for a state as large as California. Here in Hawaii, at least, I think we can bet by with just two. I guess what I'm saying is: Substitute the "forfeit option" for D2. Take Kalaheo, for example; they got pounded by Pearl City this weekend. If we were to eliminate D2, then Kalaheo would be thrust into D1. But, so would all the other D2 schools. But, the Kalaheo HC would have the discretion to forfeit any game, even after the game has been going for at least one quarter. Now, schools have changing football fortunes year-to-year. Perhaps a school won't necessarily get twice as many players one year as it did in the previous year. But, it might be more possible for that school to get lucky one year and get a number of pretty good and/or pretty hefty players. Again, the HC, under my plan, would have the discretion to forfeit those games in which his school has a dramatic physical disadvantage; that's probably something that any HC would like to do right off. But, if he happens to have a few pretty good players this year, he might want to take a chance against a school that might still have a physical advantage, but not a dramatic one. My plan gives every D1 coach that flexibility. Of course, the HC might want to discuss with the AD in each instance why he wants to take-on one school, but forfeit against another. But once the AD signs-off, the HC relays his decision to the league. If you're stuck in D2, you can't play anyone in D1 (at least not as part of your official schedule that counts).

Kahuku would never be able to blow-out Kalaheo 100-0 because Kahuku is in Open, while Kalaheo would be in D1. So, the two schools wouldn't even play each other.

You mentioned Kalaheo High, Waialua High, and Nanakuli High as belonging in D2 because of their size and skill level. In my plan, D2 is eliminated, and all three schools end-up in D1. But, that's not as bad as it sounds, because under my plan the HCs of those three schools have the option of forfeiting games, even after the game has begun and has gone for one quarter.

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

Post by HS Football Fanatic »

gopunahou wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:38 pm There is a way to beat St. Louis--if their offensive inconsistency continues, as well as their recent tendency to turn the ball over and commit penalties. We've also gotta keep them from burning us with a big play as much as possible.

If St. Louis fails to win the state championship (which is a strong possibility), will Cal Lee reassume the role of HC?
@gopunahou: Well, even if your alma mater loses to St Louis, they still have a big game against Kahuku; at least that's something to look forward to.

But, If St Louis' O has been inconsistent, has Punahou's O been consistent by contrast? Also--speaking of O--is QB Sagapolutele going to play? That's huge, obviously. McCutcheon may be just as accurate and have almost as strong an arm, but he isn't big enough to power-run the way Sagapolutele does.

No matter St Louis' fortunes, I can't see Cal becoming HC again. The fact that he stepped-down to DC is to me already a signal. I mean, he graduated from Kalani High way back in '64 or '65; he's older than me. At best, I think Cal is likely to remain as DC. Or, he might even retire completely. I mean, he's what, 74? 75? (What's crazy is that Ron is even older, by two years, I think. He graduated from St Louis School.)

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

Post by TheNewNORM »

[quote=gopunahou post_id=617485 time=1634531935

If St. Louis fails to win the state championship (which is a strong possibility), will Cal Lee reassume the role of HC?
[/quote]

I would think that maybe it might be time for the Lee's to gracefully retire.

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

Post by gopunahou »

TheNewNORM wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:20 pm [quote=gopunahou post_id=617485 time=1634531935

If St. Louis fails to win the state championship (which is a strong possibility), will Cal Lee reassume the role of HC?
I would think that maybe it might be time for the Lee's to gracefully retire.
[/quote]
I wonder if they are already going the way of Bobby Bowden, who couldn’t win as much in his last 9 years as coach as he did between 1987-2000.
Punahou Football: 12-1, 2008 ILH and State Champions! 11-0, 2013 ILH and State Champions, a team for the ages!

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Re: Open/D-I Top Ten 2021

Post by ChadFukuoka »

gopunahou wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:28 pm
TheNewNORM wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:20 pm [quote=gopunahou post_id=617485 time=1634531935

If St. Louis fails to win the state championship (which is a strong possibility), will Cal Lee reassume the role of HC?
I would think that maybe it might be time for the Lee's to gracefully retire.
I wonder if they are already going the way of Bobby Bowden, who couldn’t win as much in his last 9 years as coach as he did between 1987-2000.
[/quote]

It’s only been this year they are struggling a little. Before 2020, St Louis was undefeated against Hawaii teams for the last 4 seasons. I’d say it takes more than one down year before a coach should consider retiring. You’d think if it was an age thing, the Lee’s would have rode off into the sunset and retired years ago. Sometimes coaching is all someone wants to do. I can’t imagine Bill Belichick retiring until he physically has to, or if the Patriots really start to suck, like years of last place division finishes (he has won so many Super Bowls, I think Kraft will let him stay as long as he wants)

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