Iolani belongs in D1. Period.

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Re: Iolani belongs in D1. Period.

Post by HS Football Fanatic »

@gopunahou:
Well, for this year at least, you have your wish: Iolani is in D1. And, your alma mater will probably whip Iolani's fannies both times the two teams play. Again, personally, I myself am merely amused by the situation. I have no connections to Iolani School. I do know that I don't particularly care for them, either. But then again, I unfortunately care even less for Punahou School. I'm saying that only because you said in some earlier post that you're OK with that, and won't take it personally. It certainly isn't meant to offend you personally. I'm just coming clean, trying to be transparent and up-front with other guys on this message-board.

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Re: Iolani belongs in D1. Period.

Post by gopunahou »

HS Football Fanatic wrote:@gopunahou:
Well, for this year at least, you have your wish: Iolani is in D1. And, your alma mater will probably whip Iolani's fannies both times the two teams play. Again, personally, I myself am merely amused by the situation. I have no connections to Iolani School. I do know that I don't particularly care for them, either. But then again, I unfortunately care even less for Punahou School. I'm saying that only because you said in some earlier e-mail that you're OK with that, and won't take it personally. It certainly isn't meant to offend you personally. I'm just coming clean, trying to be transparent and up-front with other guys on this message-board.
Thanks. But it's annoying to hear people try to reach for something that isn't there. I.E. a justification for Iolani playing in D2.

It'd be a massive travesty if we were to cancel our series against them. They've always played hard against us and never gave up last year, even though they lost by 37. They played a better game against us than St. Louis and Kamehameha did (this isn't counting St. Louis's ILH championship game). I wonder if Look would hate it if we kept on playing Iolani but did so in a game that DIDN'T count toward league standings (that is, if Iolani were to move down, which shouldn't happen). I honestly feel for the humble people at Iolani who WOULD like to play the best and not cheat themselves, as Bullnuts808 has said. I know Damien, St. Francis, and Pac-Five would also like to play teams like us (Chris Brown--who could be Damien's best-ever player and the biggest Jennifer Love Hewitt fan on the planet--endorsed his alma mater playing St. Louis when Damien threatened to forfeit its games against them). I know many at Iolani feel the same way Chris did 15 years ago. But take into account that those teams have suffered devastating injuries while playing us, KS, and SL. That isn't a problem at Iolani (or hasn't been). And if Iolani does stay healthier this year than Damien, SF, and P5 would while playing the Big 3, there ain't nothing Coach Look can do about that. The sad thing is, Damien, SF, and P5 have suffered as much injuries while playing Iolani as they have playing the Big 3. So see all three end the season in better shape than they would've if they played Iolani. So it IS hurting Damien, SF, and P5 to put Iolani back in D2. But who is hurting to have Iolani play the Big 3? I've shown you that it ain't hurting anybody--except Coach Look apparently. Iolani will come within 30 points of the Big 3 at least four times and won't suffer the kind of devastating injuries Damien, SF, and P5 would against the Big 3. These people who think Iolani belongs in D2 always find different excuses when smart people like me, saynotomercs, soleu, and many others refute theirs. If it enrollment, it's lack of size, ain't lack of size, it's lack of numbers, if it ain't lack of size or lack of numbers, it's lack of depth. When will the excuses end? Just suck it up and admit that you don't belong at the D2 level, Iolani.
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Re: Iolani belongs in D1. Period.

Post by HS Football Fanatic »

gopunahou wrote:
HS Football Fanatic wrote:@gopunahou:
Well, for this year at least, you have your wish: Iolani is in D1. And, your alma mater will probably whip Iolani's fannies both times the two teams play. Again, personally, I myself am merely amused by the situation. I have no connections to Iolani School. I do know that I don't particularly care for them, either. But then again, I unfortunately care even less for Punahou School. I'm saying that only because you said in some earlier e-mail that you're OK with that, and won't take it personally. It certainly isn't meant to offend you personally. I'm just coming clean, trying to be transparent and up-front with other guys on this message-board.
Thanks. But it's annoying to hear people try to reach for something that isn't there. I.E. a justification for Iolani playing in D2.

It'd be a massive travesty if we were to cancel our series against them. They've always played hard against us and never gave up last year, even though they lost by 37. They played a better game against us than St. Louis and Kamehameha did (this isn't counting St. Louis's ILH championship game). I wonder if Look would hate it if we kept on playing Iolani but did so in a game that DIDN'T count toward league standings (that is, if Iolani were to move down, which shouldn't happen). I honestly feel for the humble people at Iolani who WOULD like to play the best and not cheat themselves, as Bullnuts808 has said. I know Damien, St. Francis, and Pac-Five would also like to play teams like us (Chris Brown--who could be Damien's best-ever player and the biggest Jennifer Love Hewitt fan on the planet--endorsed his alma mater playing St. Louis when Damien threatened to forfeit its games against them). I know many at Iolani feel the same way Chris did 15 years ago. But take into account that those teams have suffered devastating injuries while playing us, KS, and SL. That isn't a problem at Iolani (or hasn't been). And if Iolani does stay healthier this year than Damien, SF, and P5 would while playing the Big 3, there ain't nothing Coach Look can do about that. The sad thing is, Damien, SF, and P5 have suffered as much injuries while playing Iolani as they have playing the Big 3. So see all three end the season in better shape than they would've if they played Iolani. So it IS hurting Damien, SF, and P5 to put Iolani back in D2. But who is hurting to have Iolani play the Big 3? I've shown you that it ain't hurting anybody--except Coach Look apparently. Iolani will come within 30 points of the Big 3 at least four times and won't suffer the kind of devastating injuries Damien, SF, and P5 would against the Big 3. These people who think Iolani belongs in D2 always find different excuses when smart people like me, saynotomercs, soleu, and many others refute theirs. If it enrollment, it's lack of size, ain't lack of size, it's lack of numbers, if it ain't lack of size or lack of numbers, it's lack of depth. When will the excuses end? Just suck it up and admit that you don't belong at the D2 level, Iolani.
@gopunahou: OK, look at some of your statements:

"They... never gave up last year, even though they lost by 37."
"Iolani will come within 30 points of the Big 3 at least four times..." (So, if they lost by 28 each time, that's still OK?)

The reason this controversy continues to rage, is that Iolani belongs in neither D1 nor D2. They seem to be the only school that doesn't belong in either. They're too weak for D1, and too strong for D2.

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Re: Iolani belongs in D1. Period.

Post by gopunahou »

HS Football Fanatic wrote:
gopunahou wrote:
HS Football Fanatic wrote:@gopunahou:
Well, for this year at least, you have your wish: Iolani is in D1. And, your alma mater will probably whip Iolani's fannies both times the two teams play. Again, personally, I myself am merely amused by the situation. I have no connections to Iolani School. I do know that I don't particularly care for them, either. But then again, I unfortunately care even less for Punahou School. I'm saying that only because you said in some earlier e-mail that you're OK with that, and won't take it personally. It certainly isn't meant to offend you personally. I'm just coming clean, trying to be transparent and up-front with other guys on this message-board.
Thanks. But it's annoying to hear people try to reach for something that isn't there. I.E. a justification for Iolani playing in D2.

It'd be a massive travesty if we were to cancel our series against them. They've always played hard against us and never gave up last year, even though they lost by 37. They played a better game against us than St. Louis and Kamehameha did (this isn't counting St. Louis's ILH championship game). I wonder if Look would hate it if we kept on playing Iolani but did so in a game that DIDN'T count toward league standings (that is, if Iolani were to move down, which shouldn't happen). I honestly feel for the humble people at Iolani who WOULD like to play the best and not cheat themselves, as Bullnuts808 has said. I know Damien, St. Francis, and Pac-Five would also like to play teams like us (Chris Brown--who could be Damien's best-ever player and the biggest Jennifer Love Hewitt fan on the planet--endorsed his alma mater playing St. Louis when Damien threatened to forfeit its games against them). I know many at Iolani feel the same way Chris did 15 years ago. But take into account that those teams have suffered devastating injuries while playing us, KS, and SL. That isn't a problem at Iolani (or hasn't been). And if Iolani does stay healthier this year than Damien, SF, and P5 would while playing the Big 3, there ain't nothing Coach Look can do about that. The sad thing is, Damien, SF, and P5 have suffered as much injuries while playing Iolani as they have playing the Big 3. So see all three end the season in better shape than they would've if they played Iolani. So it IS hurting Damien, SF, and P5 to put Iolani back in D2. But who is hurting to have Iolani play the Big 3? I've shown you that it ain't hurting anybody--except Coach Look apparently. Iolani will come within 30 points of the Big 3 at least four times and won't suffer the kind of devastating injuries Damien, SF, and P5 would against the Big 3. These people who think Iolani belongs in D2 always find different excuses when smart people like me, saynotomercs, soleu, and many others refute theirs. If it enrollment, it's lack of size, ain't lack of size, it's lack of numbers, if it ain't lack of size or lack of numbers, it's lack of depth. When will the excuses end? Just suck it up and admit that you don't belong at the D2 level, Iolani.
@gopunahou: OK, look at some of your statements:

"They... never gave up last year, even though they lost by 37."
"Iolani will come within 30 points of the Big 3 at least four times..." (So, if they lost by 28 each time, that's still OK?)

The reason this controversy continues to rage, is that Iolani belongs in neither D1 nor D2. They seem to be the only school that doesn't belong in either. They're too weak for D1, and too strong for D2.
They may have lost by 37 but DID play us closer than St. Louis (the first time) and Kamehameha did. They also had Kamehameha on the ropes. Iolani ain't the only school that is a tweener. Castle, Kailua, and Aiea are the others. Only when they move down to D2 should Iolani. To elaborate, even if Iolani DOES lose to all three of the Big 3, there will be 1 or 2 games where they'll come within 15 points of one of them. Is that better?

I am glad you think Iolani is too strong for D2. D1 is their rightful place. The stats favor people who think so. Between Iolani's last loss to an ILH D2 team and now, there have been FOUR Iolani victories over D1 teams. Iolani shouldn't assume that the Big 3 will always be too strong for them because that WON'T always be the case. If they were an ILH D1 team in 2011, they could've EASILY finished or tied for 3rd. The 3rd-best team that year, St. Louis, was weak and only beat them by a touchdown. And if you think that's a fluke, look at 2009 and 2010. Those are years Iolani could've EASILY finished 2nd, better than two of the Big 3. Why dominate teams that you are clearly better than when you can finish above teams that are supposedly "better" than you? If Iolani remains at the D1 level, it WON'T go winless against the Big 3 every year, nor will it always finish behind all of them. There WILL be years where one of the Big 3 or maybe two field weaker teams than Iolani. It's happened before, so why can't it happen again? People that think it's wrong to have Iolani play in the same division as us, SL, and KS will always say they'll never win against them or finish above any of them. To me, that's hogwash. It may not happen this year, but one of these years Iolani will field a stronger team than one of the Big 3 (at least). Is that enough to justify Iolani's permanent presence in D1? You bet it is!
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Re: Iolani belongs in D1. Period.

Post by HS Football Fanatic »

@gopunahou:
1. You mention "Castle, Kailua, Aiea and others" as tweeners. Don't all three schools have larger 9-12 enrollments than Iolani? I'm pretty sure Iolani's small 9-12 enrollment is what got them D2 status in the first place. What else could have justified it?
2. Really, a tweener school doesn't automatically belong in D1 just because it's too strong for D2. By definition, a tweener school really belongs in neither division.
3. Obviously, Iolani would rather dominate D2 teams than be dominated by D1 teams. You have to look at it from their point of view, too. Best not to look at the issue with blinders on.
4. No matter what you or I say, what's going to happen to Iolani's D1 status if they go winless in that division?

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Re: Iolani belongs in D1. Period.

Post by gopunahou »

HS Football Fanatic wrote:@gopunahou:
1. You mention "Castle, Kailua, Aiea and others" as tweeners. Don't all three schools have larger 9-12 enrollments than Iolani? I'm pretty sure Iolani's small 9-12 enrollment is what got them D2 status in the first place. What else could have justified it?
2. Really, a tweener school doesn't automatically belong in D1 just because it's too strong for D2. By definition, a tweener school really belongs in neither division.
3. Obviously, Iolani would rather dominate D2 teams than be dominated by D1 teams. You have to look at it from their point of view, too. Best not to look at the issue with blinders on.
4. No matter what you or I say, what's going to happen to Iolani's D1 status if they go winless in that division?
#1, no. And #3, that's very egotistical of them.

There are two ways to settle this. Accept that D1 is where Iolani belongs or merge the ILH and OIA. But the second way is a topic for another day and a dead horse.

Would you have a problem if this were an option, HS Football Fanatic? Have Iolani play super-easy teams before ILH play starts, then play the Big 3 twice, then participate in a play-in game against the winner of the ILH's second division, with the winner of that game playing in the D2 tournament? I think Paul Honda suggested it, even though he HATES hearing people voice opinions like mine about Iolani.

I know you don't think they belong in D2 or D1, but their history tells me that we ought to have them play D1 for some time. Give this thing a chance before coming to conclusions. Did you take into account everything I said about the last 7 years for Iolani (that they could've easily finished 3rd or 2nd if they were in the ILH D1)? You kind of make it sound like Iolani will lose every game against the Big 3 by 30 or more points and that they'll always finish a distant fourth behind them. Which WON'T always be the case. Look at their 2008-14 teams. ALL of them could've won a game or two against the Big 3 and finished 3rd or even 2nd (in the cases of the 2009 and 2010 teams).

And one more thing: don't respect Look's beliefs that Iolani is a D2 team and wishes that it were. He's only got one agenda: feeding his own ego.
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Re: Iolani belongs in D1. Period.

Post by HS Football Fanatic »

gopunahou wrote:
HS Football Fanatic wrote:@gopunahou:
1. You mention "Castle, Kailua, Aiea and others" as tweeners. Don't all three schools have larger 9-12 enrollments than Iolani? I'm pretty sure Iolani's small 9-12 enrollment is what got them D2 status in the first place. What else could have justified it?
2. Really, a tweener school doesn't automatically belong in D1 just because it's too strong for D2. By definition, a tweener school really belongs in neither division.
3. Obviously, Iolani would rather dominate D2 teams than be dominated by D1 teams. You have to look at it from their point of view, too. Best not to look at the issue with blinders on.
4. No matter what you or I say, what's going to happen to Iolani's D1 status if they go winless in that division?
#1, no. And #3, that's very egotistical of them.

There are two ways to settle this. Accept that D1 is where Iolani belongs or merge the ILH and OIA. But the second way is a topic for another day and a dead horse.

Would you have a problem if this were an option, HS Football Fanatic? Have Iolani play super-easy teams before ILH play starts, then play the Big 3 twice, then participate in a play-in game against the winner of the ILH's second division, with the winner of that game playing in the D2 tournament? I think Paul Honda suggested it, even though he HATES hearing people voice opinions like mine about Iolani.

I know you don't think they belong in D2 or D1, but their history tells me that we ought to have them play D1 for some time. Give this thing a chance before coming to conclusions.

And one more thing: don't respect Look's beliefs that Iolani is a D2 team and wishes that it were. He's only got one agenda: feeding his own ego.
@gopunahou: Actually, I would have no problem at all with the option you mention. The funny thing is, I don't care enough about Iolani to object to the option you propose.
But really, are you sure you shouldn't go a little easier on Look? I mean, he's not the only high-school football coach with an ego. Since he's also an Iolani alumnus, I suspect that he also doesn't want to see his alma mater get massacred in D1.

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Re: Iolani belongs in D1. Period.

Post by gopunahou »

HS Football Fanatic wrote:
gopunahou wrote:
HS Football Fanatic wrote:@gopunahou:
1. You mention "Castle, Kailua, Aiea and others" as tweeners. Don't all three schools have larger 9-12 enrollments than Iolani? I'm pretty sure Iolani's small 9-12 enrollment is what got them D2 status in the first place. What else could have justified it?
2. Really, a tweener school doesn't automatically belong in D1 just because it's too strong for D2. By definition, a tweener school really belongs in neither division.
3. Obviously, Iolani would rather dominate D2 teams than be dominated by D1 teams. You have to look at it from their point of view, too. Best not to look at the issue with blinders on.
4. No matter what you or I say, what's going to happen to Iolani's D1 status if they go winless in that division?
#1, no. And #3, that's very egotistical of them.

There are two ways to settle this. Accept that D1 is where Iolani belongs or merge the ILH and OIA. But the second way is a topic for another day and a dead horse.

Would you have a problem if this were an option, HS Football Fanatic? Have Iolani play super-easy teams before ILH play starts, then play the Big 3 twice, then participate in a play-in game against the winner of the ILH's second division, with the winner of that game playing in the D2 tournament? I think Paul Honda suggested it, even though he HATES hearing people voice opinions like mine about Iolani.

I know you don't think they belong in D2 or D1, but their history tells me that we ought to have them play D1 for some time. Give this thing a chance before coming to conclusions.

And one more thing: don't respect Look's beliefs that Iolani is a D2 team and wishes that it were. He's only got one agenda: feeding his own ego.
@gopunahou: Actually, I would have no problem at all with the option you mention. The funny thing is, I don't care enough about Iolani to object to the option you propose.
But really, are you sure you shouldn't go a little easier on Look? I mean, he's not the only high-school football coach with an ego. Since he's also an Iolani alumnus, I suspect that he also doesn't want to see his alma mater get massacred in D1.
That's true, but Coach Ane experienced bad losses early in his career and didn't complain. Also, please let me know if you've read anything I've said about their last 7 teams and that they could've finished above one or possibly two of the Big 3 in some of those years.
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Re: Iolani belongs in D1. Period.

Post by HS Football Fanatic »

@gopunahou: Well, you have to keep in mind that nothing you or I say is going to change anything about Iolani's status. We're just two guys going back and forth on this thread, but I'm not sure anyone cares. I do remember Iolani beating Kamehameha by 3 points in '09. I also remember them upsetting St Louis back in the mid-2000s I think; I can't remember the exact year. But any D2 team can upset a D1 team once in a while.

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Re: Iolani belongs in D1. Period.

Post by gopunahou »

HS Football Fanatic wrote:@gopunahou: Well, you have to keep in mind that nothing you or I say is going to change anything about Iolani's status. We're just two guys going back and forth on this thread, but I'm not sure anyone cares. I do remember Iolani beating Kamehameha by 3 points in '09. I also remember them upsetting St Louis back in the mid-2000s I think; I can't remember the exact year. But any D2 team can upset a D1 team once in a while.
The last time a true ILH D2 team did it was 1998. Pac-Five beat Kamehameha that year. Iolani has done better against D1 competition than they give themselves credit. Do you think they'll finish last in D1 and go winless against the Big 3 every year?
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Re: Iolani belongs in D1. Period.

Post by HS Football Fanatic »

gopunahou wrote:
HS Football Fanatic wrote:@gopunahou: Well, you have to keep in mind that nothing you or I say is going to change anything about Iolani's status. We're just two guys going back and forth on this thread, but I'm not sure anyone cares. I do remember Iolani beating Kamehameha by 3 points in '09. I also remember them upsetting St Louis back in the mid-2000s I think; I can't remember the exact year. But any D2 team can upset a D1 team once in a while.
The last time a true ILH D2 team did it was 1998. Pac-Five beat Kamehameha that year. Iolani has done better against D1 competition than they give themselves credit. Do you think they'll finish last in D1 and go winless against the Big 3 every year?
@gopunahou: You know what's coming, right? If Iolani were D2, would Damien and St Francis go winless against them every year? As you can see, I don't think there can be any satisfactory solution to this debate; it just goes on and on, like the Energizer bunny. When this season is over, let's see what happens to Iolani's D1 status. That's all you can do.

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Re: Iolani belongs in D1. Period.

Post by gopunahou »

HS Football Fanatic wrote:
gopunahou wrote:
HS Football Fanatic wrote:@gopunahou: Well, you have to keep in mind that nothing you or I say is going to change anything about Iolani's status. We're just two guys going back and forth on this thread, but I'm not sure anyone cares. I do remember Iolani beating Kamehameha by 3 points in '09. I also remember them upsetting St Louis back in the mid-2000s I think; I can't remember the exact year. But any D2 team can upset a D1 team once in a while.
The last time a true ILH D2 team did it was 1998. Pac-Five beat Kamehameha that year. Iolani has done better against D1 competition than they give themselves credit. Do you think they'll finish last in D1 and go winless against the Big 3 every year?
@gopunahou: You know what's coming, right? If Iolani were D2, would Damien and St Francis go winless against them every year? As you can see, I don't think there can be any satisfactory solution to this debate; it just goes on and on, like the Energizer bunny. When this season is over, let's see what happens to Iolani's D1 status. That's all you can do.
That's true. But my reply to that is that if Iolani were to return to D2, history suggests that Damien and St. Francis will go winless against them. No ILH D2 team has beaten Iolani since 2007. Between then and now, there have been four Iolani victories over the Big 3. There could've been more had Iolani been a D1 team starting in 2008.

But anyway, I honestly hope Damien and St. Francis--as well as the P5 schools--go 8-man. They've struggled with #s for years. Only now do they seem to be getting on their feet, and yet, they are still experiencing growing pains. I don't think Damien and St. Francis can sustain long-lasting "success", which is why they should go 8-man. If that were to happen, where would it leave Iolani? It'd give them no choice but to play the Big 3 twice. And as for Iolani going 8-man? That'd be selling themselves short! I doubt the alumni there would stand for that, even if they like winning big against weaker teams but hate taking it on the chin (which does not happen often) against the likes of us, SL, and KS! I hope all three teams go 8-man soon. If that does happen, maybe Iolani can do this--play the Big 3 twice but represent the ILH in the D2 playoffs.
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Re: Iolani belongs in D1. Period.

Post by HaterOfElitists »

The problem is Look think his kaka don't stink and like to dish it but can't take it! It'd be a shame if Lots of Iolani players follow his example!

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Re: Iolani belongs in D1. Period.

Post by gopunahou »

You know what MIGHT happen when Iolani plays the Big 3? The Big 3 might take it easy on them, being that they've got tough games the following week. I don't think Farrington thought that was the case, as playing Moanalua ain't anything like getting Punahou, St. Louis, or Kamehameha the following week. EACH of the Big 3 will have that problem the week after facing Iolani. There is no Damien, Pac-Five, or St. Francis to rest your players against, so the Big 3 might use the Iolani game to rest their players and only play Iolani tough when they realize Iolani is threatening to beat them. Make no mistake, the Big 3 are playing much more of a gauntlet than they did since forever. And make no mistake, Iolani is a true D1 team.
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Re: Iolani belongs in D1. Period.

Post by HS Football Fanatic »

gopunahou wrote:You know what MIGHT happen when Iolani plays the Big 3? The Big 3 might take it easy on them, being that they've got tough games the following week. I don't think Farrington thought that was the case, as playing Moanalua ain't anything like getting Punahou, St. Louis, or Kamehameha the following week. EACH of the Big 3 will have that problem the week after facing Iolani. There is no Damien, Pac-Five, or St. Francis to rest your players against, so the Big 3 might use the Iolani game to rest their players and only play Iolani tough when they realize Iolani is threatening to beat them. Make no mistake, the Big 3 are playing much more of a gauntlet than they did since forever. And make no mistake, Iolani is a true D1 team.
@gopunahou: OK, you see what's happening in your post, right? If Iolani is a true D1 team, then how could the Big Three take it easy on them? Iolani has the biggest line it's had for some time--well, it was fairly big last year, too--and a good RB. If the Big Three can still afford to "take it easy on them," what does that say? What happens when Iolani has a line that's a more typical Iolani line (small)?

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