2015 Wrestling Speculation and Nonsense

[Kama]

I tried to program my TiVo to record the state wrestling tournament in March, unfortunately it was not available on the online guide. I hope that doesn't mean it won't be televised this year.

[1hawaii]

OIA 132 is the exception. The OIA east and west championship brackets combined averaged 12.5 wrestlers a weight class. Let's not forget that there are "15 teams" in the ILH so they need to get 4. MIL only has 8 teams, so they just get 2. There are always going to be exceptions. MIL has put 2 in the state finals just like the ILH and OIA. There will be a more then a few battles for the 2nd spot in the MIL. I think we all can agree that adding 4 more spots would fix everyone's problem. Why can't we get those fishtails back again?

[Leftfieldcoachlikeu]

OIA 132 is the exception. The OIA east and west championship brackets combined averaged 12.5 wrestlers a weight class. Let's not forget that there are "15 teams" in the ILH so they need to get 4. MIL only has 8 teams, so they just get 2. There are always going to be exceptions. MIL has put 2 in the state finals just like the ILH and OIA. There will be a more then a few battles for the 2nd spot in the MIL. I think we all can agree that adding 4 more spots would fix everyone's problem. Why can't we get those fishtails back again?

I've never been to an ILH Championship, but I always hear of half the kids that didn't win a match and get to go to state. 6 of 12.5 is not bad, but what is 4 of 4? Or 2 of 2 in the MIL?

Let's not forget that it's not required to wrestle easterns or westerns to go to OIA's, so the brackets will get people that are added in that weren't there last weekend.

138 is crazy too. Baylen Cooper coming in 5th isn't a shocker, there are 4 guys behind diamond in the west that are about even.
160 has 5 legit title contenders as well in the West.

[talloola25]

Any predictions for the ILH, BIIF, or MIL?

[ProudDad]

Any predictions for the ILH, BIIF, or MIL?

I'll take a stab but probably just the winners..Honestly, dis is me just taking a wild guess....

106 Lee (Pun)
113 Kato (Pun)
120 Terukina (Kam)
126 Nakasone (Iol)
132 Rosen (Pun)
138 Crimins (Pun)
145 Pascua (Iol)
152 Farias (Kam)
160 Villarima (Dam)
170 ?
182 Hoshino (Kam)
195 Tokioka (Kam)
220 Nakayama (Kam)
285 Gaughen (Kam)

[FoxMulder]

OIA 132 is the exception. The OIA east and west championship brackets combined averaged 12.5 wrestlers a weight class. Let's not forget that there are "15 teams" in the ILH so they need to get 4. MIL only has 8 teams, so they just get 2. There are always going to be exceptions. MIL has put 2 in the state finals just like the ILH and OIA. There will be a more then a few battles for the 2nd spot in the MIL. I think we all can agree that adding 4 more spots would fix everyone's problem. Why can't we get those fishtails back again?

Is 15 counting PAC5 as 1 team? Here's the teams I can think of: Iolani, Kamehameha, Punahou, St Louis, Damien, Pac5... That's 6 teams, I'm sure I'm missing some but the ones I might be missing can't possibly make up for 9 teams. The other thing that isn't taken into account is the class size of each team... Some of these ILH teams have a smaller class size so it effects the fullness of the teams, some of the smaller ILH schools won't fill even half of their rooster.

[talloola25]

OIA 132 is the exception. The OIA east and west championship brackets combined averaged 12.5 wrestlers a weight class. Let's not forget that there are "15 teams" in the ILH so they need to get 4. MIL only has 8 teams, so they just get 2. There are always going to be exceptions. MIL has put 2 in the state finals just like the ILH and OIA. There will be a more then a few battles for the 2nd spot in the MIL. I think we all can agree that adding 4 more spots would fix everyone's problem. Why can't we get those fishtails back again?

Is 15 counting PAC5 as 1 team? Here's the teams I can think of: Iolani, Kamehameha, Punahou, St Louis, Damien, Pac5... That's 6 teams, I'm sure I'm missing some but the ones I might be missing can't possibly make up for 9 teams. The other thing that isn't taken into account is the class size of each team... Some of these ILH teams have a smaller class size so it effects the fullness of the teams, some of the smaller ILH schools won't fill even half of their rooster.

Pac-5 is not counted as one team for the state tournament. They count as the number of teams that have participants on Pac-5. Thats why "Pac-5" can have 2 state finalists.

[1hawaii]

All the schools in the PAC-5 get counted as individual teams when it's time to use the formula for states. I have seen the ILH get top 1-4 at States so not really grumbling. Not sure about them only having some 4 man brackets. I do know that the MIL does not have any 2 man brackets. One can argue that the MIL is weak and the OIA is strong. But in the MIL it is at least a battle for that second spot(last spot). Lahainaluna, Baldwin, Maui High, Molokai, King Kekaulike, Kamehameha Maui and Lanai are real teams with real rosters. Saint Anthony and and Hana are in there too. 9 teams. Not trying to take a spot from another league just pointing out that we should bring back the fishtail so the MIL can bring a 3rd wrestler. All the leagues have had multiple wrestlers come out of fishtails to place at states. The OIA has gone 1-6 on the podium and the MIL has gone 1-3 at states too. Who or what is the argument against getting those fishtails back?Time? Money? Officials? HHSAA? Politics?

[twnoexcuses]

All the schools in the PAC-5 get counted as individual teams when it's time to use the formula for states. I have seen the ILH get top 1-4 at States so not really grumbling. Not sure about them only having some 4 man brackets. I do know that the MIL does not have any 2 man brackets. One can argue that the MIL is weak and the OIA is strong. But in the MIL it is at least a battle for that second spot(last spot). Lahainaluna, Baldwin, Maui High, Molokai, King Kekaulike, Kamehameha Maui and Lanai are real teams with real rosters. Saint Anthony and and Hana are in there too. 9 teams. Not trying to take a spot from another league just pointing out that we should bring back the fishtail so the MIL can bring a 3rd wrestler. All the leagues have had multiple wrestlers come out of fishtails to place at states. The OIA has gone 1-6 on the podium and the MIL has gone 1-3 at states too. Who or what is the argument against getting those fishtails back?Time? Money? Officials? HHSAA? Politics?

I think it comes down to the guy who used to run the Mochi place (the son), the guri guri people, and THE inequity.

The Mochi guy really rubbed people the wrong way. That led to an overall lack of support for Maui.

The guri guri people give such small scoops. Especially to Honolulu people. It belies any sense of generosity or interisland community.

The "piece de resistance" or "coupe de grace" depending on how you look at things, though, is Krispy Kreme. That is a particularly sore point in the wrestling community. And, the Maui teams don't even bring over to share after states weigh ins. People figure that Maui should be happy that it has the only Krispy Kreme place in the islands. And it should. So, the attitude is, you can't grumble about anything when you have Krispy Kreme.

[2Cents]

Pac 5 is one program and should have one wrestler per weight class in the ILH championship. I'm sure there are more than a few schools that have 2nd and 3rd string wrestlers that could place. It's irrelevant how good the 2nd or 3rd string wrestler is, one program one participant. Odd way for the powers that be to justify another ILH state qualifier.

I count St. Louis, Kamehameha, Punahou, Damien, Iolani, St. Francis, Pac 5. Seven teams, two less than MIL 9 teams but double the qualifiers. Less than 1/3 of the OIA but 2/3 of the qualifiers. If you have a tougher league does that justify more qualifiers? If so what about tougher teams when the 2nd string could beat everyone but the starter on his own team? Should they get a shot? I can think of two JV wrestlers that placed on Maui but can't beat their own team starter (Punahou 106 & Campbell 113). Consistency and fairness don't seem to prevail. Just have a solid objective reason not a Pac 5 smoke and mirrors.

Btw I like fish tails which make more sense then Pac 5, 10, 20, whatever. Who decides this stuff anyways?

[twnoexcuses]

Pac 5 is one program and should have one wrestler per weight class in the ILH championship. I'm sure there are more than a few schools that have 2nd and 3rd string wrestlers that could place. It's irrelevant how good the 2nd or 3rd string wrestler is, one program one participant. Odd way for the powers that be to justify another ILH state qualifier.

I count St. Louis, Kamehameha, Punahou, Damien, Iolani, St. Francis, Pac 5. Seven teams, two less than MIL 9 teams but double the qualifiers. Less than 1/3 of the OIA but 2/3 of the qualifiers. If you have a tougher league does that justify more qualifiers? If so what about tougher teams when the 2nd string could beat everyone but the starter on his own team? Should they get a shot? I can think of two JV wrestlers that placed on Maui but can't beat their own team starter (Punahou 106 & Campbell 113). Consistency and fairness don't seem to prevail. Just have a solid objective reason not a Pac 5 smoke and mirrors.

Btw I like fish tails which make more sense then Pac 5, 10, 20, whatever. Who decides this stuff anyways?

C'mon, you know recognizing Pac 5 schools as independent (but letting them compete in the ILH collectively) is a good idea. It creates opportunities, and prevents small schools that offer good education from being shut out of sports participation.

The ILH could easily STOP recognizing the Pac 5 collective for dual meets, and have however many different schools compete separately. There would still be nothing that could prevent joint practices. But Pac 5 doesn't impose the pac 5 label upon the HHSAA tournament. If it did, during the Terao years, Pac 5 would have been in the hunt for a State Championship.

The reality is that pac 5 wrestlers DO come from different schools. You can't deny that. So, if the count is based on the number of schools, then its fair. The ILH may accommodate Pac 5 as a unified group for its own championship purposes, but that doesn't impact the State.

Also, Damien is a part of Pac 5 for some sports.

[FoxMulder]

Pac 5 is one program and should have one wrestler per weight class in the ILH championship. I'm sure there are more than a few schools that have 2nd and 3rd string wrestlers that could place. It's irrelevant how good the 2nd or 3rd string wrestler is, one program one participant. Odd way for the powers that be to justify another ILH state qualifier.

I count St. Louis, Kamehameha, Punahou, Damien, Iolani, St. Francis, Pac 5. Seven teams, two less than MIL 9 teams but double the qualifiers. Less than 1/3 of the OIA but 2/3 of the qualifiers. If you have a tougher league does that justify more qualifiers? If so what about tougher teams when the 2nd string could beat everyone but the starter on his own team? Should they get a shot? I can think of two JV wrestlers that placed on Maui but can't beat their own team starter (Punahou 106 & Campbell 113). Consistency and fairness don't seem to prevail. Just have a solid objective reason not a Pac 5 smoke and mirrors.

Btw I like fish tails which make more sense then Pac 5, 10, 20, whatever. Who decides this stuff anyways?

C'mon, you know recognizing Pac 5 schools as independent (but letting them compete in the ILH collectively) is a good idea. It creates opportunities, and prevents small schools that offer good education from being shut out of sports participation.

The ILH could easily STOP recognizing the Pac 5 collective for dual meets, and have however many different schools compete separately. There would still be nothing that could prevent joint practices. But Pac 5 doesn't impose the pac 5 label upon the HHSAA tournament. If it did, during the Terao years, Pac 5 would have been in the hunt for a State Championship.

The reality is that pac 5 wrestlers DO come from different schools. You can't deny that. So, if the count is based on the number of schools, then its fair. The ILH may accommodate Pac 5 as a unified group for its own championship purposes, but that doesn't impact the State.

Also, Damien is a part of Pac 5 for some sports.

The fact that Damien is apart of Pac5 in other sports is irrelevant, this is a wrestling thread, if you wanna talk other sports go to another thread.

Pac5 practices as one team. You talk to majority of the kids wrestling (and probably some parents as well) and they won't know that Pac5 competes as separate "teams" because they come from different schools.

Joint practices are not the same as one program. If Kaimuki and Kalani had joint practices because of a small room it still consists of two separate coaching staffs, different uniforms, and they still compete against each other in dual meets and tournaments.

Pac5 shouldn't want it that way, in the past they would have been competitive for the state title and its gotta kill them that they will never win one. Pac5 competing as one team would probably make the state tournament better too, rather than Pac5 celebrating on crippling teams in the running they would be fighting for the top spot with the rest of the teams at the state tournament.

Also the parents who choose to send their kids to a smaller school they aren't being penalized. The other kids who aren't able to go to a private school are getting the short end of the stick. One thing everyone may forget is that public school kids didnt have as much of a choice as to the school they go to as private school kids.

And I think we should have fishtales, I think everyone on the forum is on the same page on that.

Oh and btw the fact that Pac 5 competes as a unified group does impact the state tournament, that's the whole reason why were talking about them.

[FoxMulder]

Either they should compete as one team and be considered one team or compete as many teams and be considered many teams. They shouldn't be able to have their cake and eat it too.

[SportCourt]

We all know Kauai does not deserve their spot. They should batlle of Lanai for the single spot

[Leftfieldcoachlikeu]

Any predictions for the ILH, BIIF, or MIL?

I'll take a stab but probably just the winners..Honestly, dis is me just taking a wild guess....

106 Lee (Pun)
113 Kato (Pun)
120 Terukina (Kam)
126 Nakasone (Iol)
132 Rosen (Pun)
138 Crimins (Pun)
145 Pascua (Iol)
152 Farias (Kam)
160 Villarima (Dam)
170 ?
182 Hoshino (Kam)
195 Tokioka (Kam)
220 Nakayama (Kam)
285 Gaughen (Kam)

Didn't know that Kam had that much ILH title contenders. Do they have a chance at the state team title?