unpaid D-II football

[unpaid]

The ILH doesn't rank their teams like the OIA does. If the ILH looks at Iolani's almost ten-year run as ILH D-II champions and decides that the Raiders win one more and have to move to D-I,that will not affect Punahou,Kamehameha,or St.Louis in any way. Those schools are among the best in the state in football. They will remain in D-I.What Iolani getting promoted would mean is that the ILH would like to see Damien ,Pac-5,and St.Francis have a real chance to win a title...cuz they won't do it while Iolani is still in D-II.

Once you get that,then what happens with Iolani? The Raiders have been beating up on their ILH D-II opponents for almost a decade.....now they get moved up to D-I where they are going to get done unto them in D-I as they have done unto their D-II ILH competition. That is the reality for a tweener school,as I would call them. They are good enough to beat the daylights out of Damien, Pac-5,and St.Francis ,but they are not good enough to avoid getting pounded by Punahou,Kamehameha,and St.Louis.

[FatherofCody&Casey]

The ILH doesn't rank their teams like the OIA does. If the ILH looks at Iolani's almost ten-year run as ILH D-II champions and decides that the Raiders win one more and have to move to D-I,that will not affect Punahou,Kamehameha,or St.Louis in any way. Those schools are among the best in the state in football. They will remain in D-I.What Iolani getting promoted would mean is that the ILH would like to see Damien ,Pac-5,and St.Francis have a real chance to win a title...cuz they won't do it while Iolani is still in D-II.

Once you get that,then what happens with Iolani? The Raiders have been beating up on their ILH D-II opponents for almost a decade.....now they get moved up to D-I where they are going to get done unto them in D-I as they have done unto their D-II ILH competition. That is the reality for a tweener school,as I would call them. They are good enough to beat the daylights out of Damien, Pac-5,and St.Francis ,but they are not good enough to avoid getting pounded by Punahou,Kamehameha,and St.Louis.

+1

I think, starting in 2015, that the ILH will always have 4 D1 teams. Whether Iolani is one of them constantly remains to be seen. Remember, this isn't a football-only rule, nor is it exclusive to Iolani. The new rule applies to all team sports that the ILH sanctions. For example, if St. Francis were to win D2 in 2015 and 2016, they'd replace Iolani, especially if Iolani finishes 4th in 2015 and 2016, in 2017. That wouldn't be a stretch considering St. Francis dominated the ILH's intermediate FB league last year. While intermediate results mean nothing when it comes to JV-less teams, St. Francis may be building a winning attitude and should improve year after year if they manage to keep their star freshmen-to-be.

In terms of Iolani, I don't think they'll always finish 4th. I think there'll be years where they'll finish 3rd or even 2nd, like they would have in 2009. They can also take solace in that they'll be playing Punahou, SL, and KS in the regular season as many times as they would have if they were a D2 team. Only once will they play one of the Big Three twice, the second game happening in the postseason. Don't wanna play two members of the Big Three twice? Don't win your first playoff game! Besides, D1 teams sometimes take beatings as bad as the ones Iolani absorbed against the Big Three last year. If Iolani were to lose bad against one of them, say 55-10, it wouldn't mean that they belong in D2. I honestly believe that Iolani will give one of them a scare, keep a game against another close for a half, and take a beating against the other one. Remember, this is a team that won 12 games in 2009 and beat Punahou and Kamehameha.

This is the article that describes the new rule that I speak of. Remember, last year was the first one the ILH enforced it:
http://www.staradvertiser.com/sportspre ... =217288211

[unpaid]

The ILH maybe even just as well as the OIA shows the current imbalance allowed by the state athetic association to continue. Bigger enrollment schools bash the smaller schools everywhere..That would be OK if the schools wanted tto let it happen...but seriously...Waialua for example .why would a school like that remain in the OIA if they could find a way to be in their own league with say Anuenue, St.Francis ,Nanakuli,,Kalaheo, no league games an;ymore against the likes of Kaiser and Radford ,Pearl City,who would have to play up..

Don;t think it's serves any real purpose to let Cougars and Rams put up 50+ on way smaller schools. Of course,Kaiser and Radford get beat up when they go D-I..Iolani is in the same boat.. Maybe there are a few teams that need to have their own division or maybe there are a few teams than need to play up because they should and take what comes rather than beating up on schools-800 enrollment.

Really,the HHSAA needs to step in and organize schools in groupings based on enrollment.

[gopunahou]

The ILH maybe even just as well as the OIA shows the current imbalance allowed by the state athetic association to continue. Bigger enrollment schools bash the smaller schools everywhere..That would be OK if the schools wanted tto let it happen...but seriously...Waialua for example .why would a school like that remain in the OIA if they could find a way to be in their own league with say Anuenue, St.Francis ,Nanakuli,,Kalaheo, no league games an;ymore against the likes of Kaiser and Radford ,Pearl City,who would have to play up..

Don;t think it's serves any real purpose to let Cougars and Rams put up 50+ on way smaller schools. Of course,Kaiser and Radford get beat up when they go D-I..Iolani is in the same boat.. Maybe there are a few teams that need to have their own division or maybe there are a few teams than need to play up because they should and take what comes rather than beating up on schools-800 enrollment.

Really,the HHSAA needs to step in and organize schools in groupings based on enrollment.

Dave Rearson suggests merging the ILH and OIA but honestly, that's a pipe dream. I've got a better chance of finding Bigfoot that those two leagues do of merging.

[EASTHONFAN]

Unpaid,
What are the the enrollment counts at these other schools you are talking about?
I know that Kaiser's enrollment just went over a 1000 students a few years ago and last year just over 1000. Prior to 2012 Kaiser's enrollment was between 850 & 950 students. What are the comparisons to the other school.

Here is a link that shows the student enrollment count for Hawaii public high school.
http://high-schools.com/report/hi/publi ... awaii.html

[unpaid]

I have a few thoughts here.

gopunahou,I agree that the OIA and the ILH are oil and water. But let's take the idea that true D-II schools from different leagues would break away to form a league with similar enrollments.First of all have there been any group of schools who broke away from one league to join another......the answer is yes. Farrington,McKinley,Roosevelt ,Kaimuki,and Kalani split away from the old ILH to join the OIA. So,there is a precedent for a group of schools to leave one league where they felt they were at a competitive disadvantage to join another league where they thought the competition might be a little more equal.

Is there a precendent for a group of schools to form their own division based on equal competition. Yes there is ...Molokai,Seabury Hall.St.Anthonys,and Hana decided to have football on their own terms which meant 8-man football.These schools now have football with out forfeiting games every year because they can't keep up a 25-30 man roster.They are playing other schools with really small enrollments and probably having a lot of fun doing it. Kau and Pahoa..maybe Kohala too are starting to realize really small schools can have football and homecoming and all the goodwill that entails with 8-man.,too...If some Oahu schools join in then there can be a true 8-man division playoff with it's own champion and Koa Bowl trophy.There would be some Oahu schools who would qualify for 8-man.

My bottom line is this, ..history shows that schools can take bold steps and even the competition ,even if the HHSAA won't lay down the law like most of the other states high school athletic associations do.

EASTHONFAN,

I use numbers from the Hawaii DOE site at http://www.hawaiipublicschools.org.The numbers I used to make my statement in the last post were from the 2013-2014 school year as shown in the grand total column for each school.

Waialua was at 636..although Waialua's total included intermediate 7-8 graders as well..so Waialua's actual number of HS enrollees would more likely be in the high 500's ...not a very big talent pool compared to Kaiser's 1037.or Radfords's 1315. Anuenue's total enrollment from last year was 394...even Waialua was almost twice the size of Anuenue...should either of those two schools have to play the Rams or Cougars each year??
Nanakuli is another school that included intermediate numbers because 7-12 graders were attending the same facility.Enrollment was 962 combined so the actual 9-12 numbers was more likely around the high 700's.Kalaheo had 908 students last year.,under 1000 .I understand why some of these schools decline promotion to the Red..numbers are against them compared to the competition.

Should there be three divisions to take into account schools like Radford,Kaiser,Pearl City,Iolani,etc who want to stay down because they can't stick in D-I but should feel ashamed stomping on Anuenue,Waialua ,etc each year. ...Maybe there should be a third divison between what is now D-I and D-II/

The problem is that there are 23 D-I football schools,and there are 23 D-II football schools ..so if you subract tweener schools who are to good for D-II but not good enough to really compete in D-I what then? I feel the answer is that the big schools have to play other big schools and the small schools have to play other small schools and what happens,..happens.

And if you can't be D-I or D-II,go 8-man and keep it in the family...do away with Pac-pick a number.

[EASTHONFAN]

Thanks for the comparison. Where do they split up the divisions is a hard question. Should there be three divisions. Teams below a thousand, teams one thousand to 1999 and then teams above two thousand? What would that look like? Interesting.

[EASTHONFAN]

These are the numbers that I found for school enrollment. These are numbers updated for the school year 2014-2015. Intermediate numbers are excluded.
No data for schools not shown.
Rank School School's City Total Students

1) Farrington High School Honolulu, HI 2,579
2) Waipahu High School Waipahu, HI 2,544
3) Mililani High School Mililani, HI 2,421
4) Kapolei High School Kapolei, HI 2,333
5) Campbell High School Ewa Beach, HI 2,283
6) Waianae High School Waianae, HI 2,068
7) Moanalua High School Honolulu, HI 2,016
Pearl City High School Pearl City, HI 1,980
9) Mckinley High School Honolulu, HI 1,945
10) Kahuku High & Intermediate School Kahuku, HI 1,879
11) Leilehua High School Wahiawa, HI 1,878
12) Castle High School Kaneohe, HI 1,747
13) Maui High School Kahului, HI 1,709
14) Roosevelt High School Honolulu, HI 1,672
15) Baldwin High School Wailuku, HI 1,576
16) Kealakehe High School Kailua Kona, HI 1,565
17) Hilo High School Hilo, HI 1,558
18) Kekaulike High School Makawao, HI 1,388
19) Radford High School Honolulu, HI 1,343
20) Kauai High School Lihue, HI 1,324
21) Waiakea High School Hilo, HI 1,313
22) Nanakuli High & Intermediate School Waianae, HI 1,303
23) Kaimuki High School Honolulu, HI 1,297
24) Aiea High School Aiea, HI 1,280
25) Kalani High School Honolulu, HI 1,161
26) Kapaa High School Kapaa, HI 1,108
27) Kalaheo High School Kailua, HI 1,060
28) Lahainaluna High School Lahaina, HI 1,033
29) Kaiser High School Honolulu, HI 1,025
30) Kailua High School Kailua, HI 972
31) Konawaena High School Kealakekua, HI 929
32) Keaau High School Keaau, HI 867
33) Honokaa High School Honokaa, HI 835
34) Waimea High School Waimea, HI 828
35) Pahoa High & Intermediate School Pahoa, HI 750
36) Molokai High School Hoolehua, HI 712
37) Waialua High & Intermediate School Waialua, HI 677
38) Kihei Public Charter High School Kihei, HI 474
39) Kohala High School Kapaau, HI 285
40) Olomana High & Intermediate School Kailua, HI 202
41) West Hawaii Explorations Academy Pub Charter School Kailua Kona, HI 157
42) Ke Ana La'ahana Public Charter School Hilo, HI 107
43) Hakipu'u Learning Center - A Public Charter School Kaneohe, HI 94

[FatherofCody&Casey]

I have a few thoughts here.

gopunahou,I agree that the OIA and the ILH are oil and water. But let's take the idea that true D-II schools from different leagues would break away to form a league with similar enrollments.First of all have there been any group of schools who broke away from one league to join another......the answer is yes. Farrington,McKinley,Roosevelt ,Kaimuki,and Kalani split away from the old ILH to join the OIA. So,there is a precedent for a group of schools to leave one league where they felt they were at a competitive disadvantage to join another league where they thought the competition might be a little more equal.

Is there a precendent for a group of schools to form their own division based on equal competition. Yes there is ...Molokai,Seabury Hall.St.Anthonys,and Hana decided to have football on their own terms which meant 8-man football.These schools now have football with out forfeiting games every year because they can't keep up a 25-30 man roster.They are playing other schools with really small enrollments and probably having a lot of fun doing it. Kau and Pahoa..maybe Kohala too are starting to realize really small schools can have football and homecoming and all the goodwill that entails with 8-man.,too...If some Oahu schools join in then there can be a true 8-man division playoff with it's own champion and Koa Bowl trophy.There would be some Oahu schools who would qualify for 8-man.

My bottom line is this, ..history shows that schools can take bold steps and even the competition ,even if the HHSAA won't lay down the law like most of the other states high school athletic associations do.

EASTHONFAN,

I use numbers from the Hawaii DOE site at http://www.hawaiipublicschools.org.The numbers I used to make my statement in the last post were from the 2013-2014 school year as shown in the grand total column for each school.

Waialua was at 636..although Waialua's total included intermediate 7-8 graders as well..so Waialua's actual number of HS enrollees would more likely be in the high 500's ...not a very big talent pool compared to Kaiser's 1037.or Radfords's 1315. Anuenue's total enrollment from last year was 394...even Waialua was almost twice the size of Anuenue...should either of those two schools have to play the Rams or Cougars each year??
Nanakuli is another school that included intermediate numbers because 7-12 graders were attending the same facility.Enrollment was 962 combined so the actual 9-12 numbers was more likely around the high 700's.Kalaheo had 908 students last year.,under 1000 .I understand why some of these schools decline promotion to the Red..numbers are against them compared to the competition.

Should there be three divisions to take into account schools like Radford,Kaiser,Pearl City,Iolani,etc who want to stay down because they can't stick in D-I but should feel ashamed stomping on Anuenue,Waialua ,etc each year. ...Maybe there should be a third divison between what is now D-I and D-II/

The problem is that there are 23 D-I football schools,and there are 23 D-II football schools ..so if you subract tweener schools who are to good for D-II but not good enough to really compete in D-I what then? I feel the answer is that the big schools have to play other big schools and the small schools have to play other small schools and what happens,..happens.

And if you can't be D-I or D-II,go 8-man and keep it in the family...do away with Pac-pick a number.

Don't think the Pac-Five schools will do it. Why? Because there are some prospects on those teams that like to show that they can play against the big boys (The Big Three). I remember hearing Damien's Chris Brown say years back that playing St. Louis benefited him (even though his team lost by about 30 or 40 points both times). He got more exposure and improved his college chances because of his play against St. Louis. You can bet P5 kids with D1 aspirations feel the same way. Playing big-time teams, even if they lose by 50 or 70, will give those prospects long-term exposure as long as they don't disappoint. You can't deny that some HS kids get egos as large as some previous posters and think they can perform well against the best (even if that isn't the case). I think a lot of these ILH D2 schools relish the role of underdog as long as too many injuries don't occur. It amazes me that Iolani does not. They'd thrive as the underdog against the Big Three and wouldn't suffer as many injuries if the games against the Big Three (four total games) were their only tough ones of the year.

On the subject of Kaiser, I think the struggled with enrollment and turnout before Miano came. It'll be interesting to see what happens with the new coach. Does anyone know if former HC Lobendahn is part of the new staff? IRRC, he was really popular with the kids before Miano took the reigns.

[/quote]

These are the numbers that I found for school enrollment. These are numbers updated for the school year 2014-2015. Intermediate numbers are excluded.
No data for schools not shown.
Rank School School's City Total Students

1) Farrington High School Honolulu, HI 2,579
2) Waipahu High School Waipahu, HI 2,544
3) Mililani High School Mililani, HI 2,421
4) Kapolei High School Kapolei, HI 2,333
5) Campbell High School Ewa Beach, HI 2,283
6) Waianae High School Waianae, HI 2,068
7) Moanalua High School Honolulu, HI 2,016
Pearl City High School Pearl City, HI 1,980
9) Mckinley High School Honolulu, HI 1,945
10) Kahuku High & Intermediate School Kahuku, HI 1,879
11) Leilehua High School Wahiawa, HI 1,878
12) Castle High School Kaneohe, HI 1,747
13) Maui High School Kahului, HI 1,709
14) Roosevelt High School Honolulu, HI 1,672
15) Baldwin High School Wailuku, HI 1,576
16) Kealakehe High School Kailua Kona, HI 1,565
17) Hilo High School Hilo, HI 1,558
18) Kekaulike High School Makawao, HI 1,388
19) Radford High School Honolulu, HI 1,343
20) Kauai High School Lihue, HI 1,324
21) Waiakea High School Hilo, HI 1,313
22) Nanakuli High & Intermediate School Waianae, HI 1,303
23) Kaimuki High School Honolulu, HI 1,297
24) Aiea High School Aiea, HI 1,280
25) Kalani High School Honolulu, HI 1,161
26) Kapaa High School Kapaa, HI 1,108
27) Kalaheo High School Kailua, HI 1,060
28) Lahainaluna High School Lahaina, HI 1,033
29) Kaiser High School Honolulu, HI 1,025
30) Kailua High School Kailua, HI 972
31) Konawaena High School Kealakekua, HI 929
32) Keaau High School Keaau, HI 867
33) Honokaa High School Honokaa, HI 835
34) Waimea High School Waimea, HI 828
35) Pahoa High & Intermediate School Pahoa, HI 750
36) Molokai High School Hoolehua, HI 712
37) Waialua High & Intermediate School Waialua, HI 677
38) Kihei Public Charter High School Kihei, HI 474
39) Kohala High School Kapaau, HI 285
40) Olomana High & Intermediate School Kailua, HI 202
41) West Hawaii Explorations Academy Pub Charter School Kailua Kona, HI 157
42) Ke Ana La'ahana Public Charter School Hilo, HI 107
43) Hakipu'u Learning Center - A Public Charter School Kaneohe, HI 94

Some of these numbers are shocking. I didn't realize Nanakuli was that large and that Kailua was that small. It also shows that a legitimately small school, Waimea, can spend a lot of years giving slightly bigger schools (like Castle and Kailua) fits as it did in the '90s and early '00s.

[Getreal$]

I'm curious to know what "bigwave" predictions are for the BIIF. I will say from what I've heard, his Konawaena team this year is twice as good as last year and their offense is much better at the Quarterback position and should easily walk through the BIIF. Any thoughts bigwave?

[SM96753]

Kahuku at 1879? I thought intermediate numbers were excluded?

[unpaid]

Kahuku's 9-12 enrollment was somewhere between 1,400-1,500 last school year according to state data from hawaiipublicschools.org

That 1800+ figure probably included 7-8 enrollment as well. Still,we are talking about Kahuku here...truth is,they just seem to produce good athletes up there. In my high school days,Kahuku had maybe 800 students 9-12 and they still won an OIA football title in 1969 going up against schools who had three or four times that enrollment..

[unpaid]

www.hawaiiprepworld.com mentioned some scrimmages taking place tomorrow,Thurs.31 Aug. They don;t count,yeah...the coaches are not going to show everything to division opponents who might be scouting a scrimmage to pick up tendencies,,etc.but there are some contests that can give an idea of where some programs are at.

Campbell at Pearl City....I expect Campbell to win no problem...but the final should indicate where Pearl City is at.I think the Chargers take the OIA White this year.....if so,I would expect 28-14, or so in favor of Campbell.

Damien at Kailua...Kailua probably wins this one...but ,like the game above..the fight Damien puts up could be anindicator of how well they will do in D-II this year. Again 28-14 Kailua would be a good indicator for Damien.

[Hawaiian superman]

Kapa'a and Waimea are extremely tough in the K.I.F this coming season i heard from a friend. They both have new head Coach.

[unpaid]

Week One headliners,

Just one game featuring a top ten matchup....No.1 Kauai and No.10 Damien.Going with Kauai.

The line should still be a strength for the Red Raiders despite the loss of two big linemen to St.Louis.New players have to step up to replace graduated seniors from last year at the skill positions...so there are some question marks.The telling point to me is that Coach Tommy John Cox decided to stay around for one more season.I think he did that believing that his team can get back to the D-II championship game and win it this year.

Damien is rebuilding under Coach Klaneski...it will always be tough trying to get a winning record in the ILH when those three D-I powerhouses are on your schedule.Still,if the Monarchs can stay healthy,they should put up a good fight.