ILH-OIA merger—hope this is true

[Duster]

Interesting posts by you all.

Good to see the big dogs be able to duke it out in the Open Division. I haven't following high school football scene that closely, but having Iolani in the lowest division is a head scratcher to me, when Damien and St. Francis will play in Division I. Iolani may be lower in enrollment than other places, but they more than make up for it in terms of facilities, coaching and the Albert Stone Memorial Scholarship and other programs. Even Pac 5 - when you combine the Mid Pac and Maryknoll high school enrollments (not including HBA, University) - you get over 1,400 if I am not mistaken. Sure, gathering for practice has got to be a chore, but they have a greater student pool than say Castle (1,189), which is going Division I. Maybe I still l see Pac 5 from when Garrett Gabriel and George Smith won the Prep Bowl.

Overall, the football "realignment" is a positive and should reduce the occurrence of mismatches. There can be no pride gained from whipping an undermanned opponent, unless you possess a bully mentality.

[HS Football Fanatic]

Interesting posts by you all.

Good to see the big dogs be able to duke it out in the Open Division. I haven't following high school football scene that closely, but having Iolani in the lowest division is a head scratcher to me, when Damien and St. Francis will play in Division I. Iolani may be lower in enrollment than other places, but they more than make up for it in terms of facilities, coaching and the Albert Stone Memorial Scholarship and other programs. Even Pac 5 - when you combine the Mid Pac and Maryknoll high school enrollments (not including HBA, University) - you get over 1,400 if I am not mistaken. Sure, gathering for practice has got to be a chore, but they have a greater student pool than say Castle (1,189), which is going Division I. Maybe I still l see Pac 5 from when Garrett Gabriel and George Smith won the Prep Bowl.

Overall, the football "realignment" is a positive and should reduce the occurrence of mismatches. There can be no pride gained from whipping an undermanned opponent, unless you possess a bully mentality.

@Duster: I think Damien and St Francis have consistently demonstrated their physicality quite consistently over the years, whereas Iolani hasn't. Now, St Francis has had a football team for only so long; it doesn't seem so long ago that it was an all-girls' school. Another possibility might be the clientele that Damien and St Francis have, as compared to Iolani's. Also, I kind of discount facilities. I suspect that what are more important are: What kind of talent does a school have? How big is the football turnout? How big are the players physically? And finally, how is the coaching? Regarding Pac-5, yeah: Back in the early- to mid-'80s, Pac-5 was kicking everyone's butts, even St Louis'. I don't know if Pac-5 will ever see those kinds of teams again, enrollment notwithstanding. Finally, it's not just how big the student pool/enrollment is; it's, how many kids are turning-out?

[HS Football Fanatic]

Years ago I would've bashed them and made a thread about that, but last year's team was pretty small. If Iolani fields a team as big as the Igber teams did and STILL decides to play in D2, that's cowardice at its finest as well as narcissism!

If Nanakuli and Castle are "big" enough to compete in D1, so is Iolani. They're taking the easy road to another state championship. The problem is when they beat McKinley 49-6 for the "D3" trophy, no one will care because it will be obvious then like it is now that they're punching far below their weight.

The question is, if Iolani beats a weak team for the lowest division championship, will their backers brag about it and claim that their kaka don't stink because of it? Just because they've beaten a team that's on a different level than they? Yes, Iolani struggled against St. Francis and Damien last year, but I don't think that's the norm. In most years, having Iolani play Waialua is like having UH play the Patriots. And yet, Coach Look claims that having us play them is like having UH play the Patriots.

@gopunahou: Well, guys who follow high-school football closely will know whether Iolani won a football championship only because it was the "big fish in the small pond." I don't think Iolani will be able to fool us. If Iolani really does belong in D1, but insists on staying in D2 just so it can win a championship, we'd all smell that out and judge it accordingly. The truth always outs. But let's face it, gopunahou. '97 and '98 just might be the last years that Iolani's football team was or ever will be bigger physically than Punahou's team.

[HS Football Fanatic]

Years ago I would've bashed them and made a thread about that, but last year's team was pretty small. If Iolani fields a team as big as the Igber teams did and STILL decides to play in D2, that's cowardice at its finest as well as narcissism!

If Nanakuli and Castle are "big" enough to compete in D1, so is Iolani. They're taking the easy road to another state championship. The problem is when they beat McKinley 49-6 for the "D3" trophy, no one will care because it will be obvious then like it is now that they're punching far below their weight.

@bandits1: Right; I said the same thing in my response to gopunahou's post. We who follow football closely, will smell Iolani out if they're playing in a lower division than they should be. I think what you're missing here is clientele; you can't always go only by enrollment. Castle has only so many students, and Nanakuli has even fewer. (Of course, we're not counting middle-school kids. Nanakuli High is actually Nanakuli High and Intermediate.) Nonetheless, I think the fact remains that Castle and Nanakuli students / football-players are generally bigger than Iolani students / football-players. Now, Castle isn't like, say, Farrington, which has a huge O-line every year. Castle is usually smaller on the line than schools like Farrington or Kailua, but Castle is also very scrappy, which I think compensates somewhat for their smaller size on the line. Even so, Castle is usually at least a little bigger than Iolani at O-line and D-line. What I would tell guys is: Let Iolani do what it wants. If they're in D2 instead of D1, and they belong in D1, then let's call them on it. Also, a D1 title is more impressive than a D2 title anyway.

[Duster]

Years ago I would've bashed them and made a thread about that, but last year's team was pretty small. If Iolani fields a team as big as the Igber teams did and STILL decides to play in D2, that's cowardice at its finest as well as narcissism!

If Nanakuli and Castle are "big" enough to compete in D1, so is Iolani. They're taking the easy road to another state championship. The problem is when they beat McKinley 49-6 for the "D3" trophy, no one will care because it will be obvious then like it is now that they're punching far below their weight.

@bandits1: Right; I said the same thing in my response to gopunahou's post. We who follow football closely, will smell Iolani out if they're playing in a lower division than they should be. I think what you're missing here is clientele; you can't always go only by enrollment. Castle has only so many students, and Nanakuli has even fewer. (Of course, we're not counting middle-school kids. Nanakuli High is actually Nanakuli High and Intermediate.) Nonetheless, I think the fact remains that Castle and Nanakuli students / football-players are generally bigger than Iolani students / football-players. Now, Castle isn't like, say, Farrington, which has a huge O-line every year. Castle is usually smaller on the line than schools like Farrington or Kailua, but Castle is also very scrappy, which I think compensates somewhat for their smaller size on the line. Even so, Castle is usually at least a little bigger than Iolani at O-line and D-line. What I would tell guys is: Let Iolani do what it wants. If they're in D2 instead of D1, and they belong in D1, then let's call them on it. Also, a D1 title is more impressive than a D2 title anyway.

The points that you all have made - Bandits, GoPunahou and HS Football Fanatic are well taken. Iolani has made a living off of being scrappy, dating back to Father Bray. I remember 5'5" defenders trying to tackle Mosi Tatupu and showing no fear.

I am perhaps old school when I consider coaching to be a huge factor. Hugh Yoshida led Leilehua teams were generally smaller yet could step up against physically bigger teams like the Ginoza era Waianae teams. Maybe I'm outdated in my thinking since I do not pay as much attention to high school football like you all.

For the upcoming year, Iolani will be without multiple year starter Tai-John Mizutani at QB and will have someone new at the helm. Maybe that will make a difference, or they simply reload and prove that Iolani does not belong in DII.

[HS Football Fanatic]

If Nanakuli and Castle are "big" enough to compete in D1, so is Iolani. They're taking the easy road to another state championship. The problem is when they beat McKinley 49-6 for the "D3" trophy, no one will care because it will be obvious then like it is now that they're punching far below their weight.

@bandits1: Right; I said the same thing in my response to gopunahou's post. We who follow football closely, will smell Iolani out if they're playing in a lower division than they should be. I think what you're missing here is clientele; you can't always go only by enrollment. Castle has only so many students, and Nanakuli has even fewer. (Of course, we're not counting middle-school kids. Nanakuli High is actually Nanakuli High and Intermediate.) Nonetheless, I think the fact remains that Castle and Nanakuli students / football-players are generally bigger than Iolani students / football-players. Now, Castle isn't like, say, Farrington, which has a huge O-line every year. Castle is usually smaller on the line than schools like Farrington or Kailua, but Castle is also very scrappy, which I think compensates somewhat for their smaller size on the line. Even so, Castle is usually at least a little bigger than Iolani at O-line and D-line. What I would tell guys is: Let Iolani do what it wants. If they're in D2 instead of D1, and they belong in D1, then let's call them on it. Also, a D1 title is more impressive than a D2 title anyway.

Bandits and Gopunahou, I understand your points. Gopunahou, Iolani has made a living off of being scrappy, dating back to Father Bray. I remember 5'5" defenders trying to tackle Mosi Tatupu and showing no fear.

I am perhaps old school when I consider coaching to be a huge factor. Hugh Yoshida led Leilehua teams were generally smaller yet could step up against physically bigger teams like the Ginoza era Waianae teams. Maybe I'm outdated in my thinking since I do not pay as much attention to high school football like you all.

For the upcoming year, Iolani will be without multiple year starter Tai-John Mizutani at QB and will have someone new at the helm. Maybe that will make a difference, or they simply reload and prove that Iolani does not belong in DII.

@Duster: Well, coaching is always a factor, right? And, I'm glad you mentioned Yoshida and Leilehua, as I think you're right that Leilehua was usually not as big on the line as Waianae, that's for sure. I guess in that sense, Leilehua was similar to Castle: Somewhat smaller on the line, but scrappy. As for Iolani "reloading;" I think not. I would say that only two schools are famous for never having to rebuild, but only reload: St Louis and Kahuku. St Louis, in particular, is famous for that. Let's not forget the thirteen consecutive Prep Bowl / State D1 titles that St Louis won from 1986 to 1999. That is a feat that has not been matched by any other school in the state; not even close.

[unpaid]

The big takeaway here is that no OIA or ILH teams are going to have to play their division rivals two or three times in a round-robin format in order to get a decent number of games. I have felt that the recent history of ILH D-I teams playing each other 2-3 times plus another time in the league playoffs was hurting the ILH competitively. Maybe the fact that the OIA open teams were facing having to play each other twice in regular season plus a third time in playoffs was the final push the league needed to decide to open up free competition against the ILH.

I think the right thing was done here in the big picture.

[gopunahou]

The big takeaway here is that no OIA or ILH teams are going to have to play their division rivals two or three times in a round-robin format in order to get a decent number of games. I have felt that the recent history of ILH D-I teams playing each other 2-3 times plus another time in the league playoffs was hurting the ILH competitively. Maybe the fact that the OIA open teams were facing having to play each other twice in regular season plus a third time in playoffs was the final push the league needed to decide to open up free competition against the ILH.

I think the right thing was done here in the big picture.

Let's hope it lasts. There've been OIA homers who've posted and attacked people that were in favor of the merger.

[HS Football Fanatic]

The big takeaway here is that no OIA or ILH teams are going to have to play their division rivals two or three times in a round-robin format in order to get a decent number of games. I have felt that the recent history of ILH D-I teams playing each other 2-3 times plus another time in the league playoffs was hurting the ILH competitively. Maybe the fact that the OIA open teams were facing having to play each other twice in regular season plus a third time in playoffs was the final push the league needed to decide to open up free competition against the ILH.

I think the right thing was done here in the big picture.

@unpaid: Well, when in ILH D1 you have schools like St Louis and Punahou, I don't know that anything can hurt them enough. I mean, look at St Louis in particular; they've won the last two state D1 titles (although I think were lucky to win the last one).

[HS Football Fanatic]

The big takeaway here is that no OIA or ILH teams are going to have to play their division rivals two or three times in a round-robin format in order to get a decent number of games. I have felt that the recent history of ILH D-I teams playing each other 2-3 times plus another time in the league playoffs was hurting the ILH competitively. Maybe the fact that the OIA open teams were facing having to play each other twice in regular season plus a third time in playoffs was the final push the league needed to decide to open up free competition against the ILH.

I think the right thing was done here in the big picture.

Let's hope it lasts. There've been OIA homers who've posted and attacked people that were in favor of the merger.

@gopunahou: Well, there are ILH homers, too. If you ask me, simply let schools play each other. Let each school do the talking through their play. Then, no one can argue. Can't argue with scores and results. The new setup just might force schools (and their alumni) to put their money where their mouths are.

[kanakattack]

Here is what I would like to see:

Open-9 game regular season
St Louis
Kahuku
Punahou
Mililani
Kapolei
Kamehameha
Waianae
Farrington
Campbell
Leilehua-they need to be in the open division

D1-8 game regular season
Iolani-they need to move up
Kailua
Castle
Moanalua
Pearl City-they need to move up
Damien
Aiea
Waipahu
Nanakuli

D2-8 game regular season
Kaimuki
Radford-they need to move down
St Francis-they need to move down
Roosevelt
Waialua
Kalaheo
McKinley
Kalani
Kaiser

[unpaid]

I think we need to understand that this is not a ILH-OIA merger.

Both leagues are still separate. The OIA will have three tiers,Open,D-I which will send teams to the respective state state tournaments,and D-II which will send a rep to that state tournament. The ILH Big3 will continue to decide among themselves on the field who will send a rep to the Open Tournament. I expect that the ILH D-II teams,at least for 2018 ,will probably see St.Francis or Damien win that ILH division and declare D-I for states ,which will leave either Iolani or Pac-5 taking the ILH D-II state slot next year.

The difference is that the OIA teams are no longer limited to one non-OIA opponent before states in 2018- 2019. Thus, the two year end of league round-robins for the ILH and OIA Open teams.

[soleu]

Gonna be tough to watch the states if the 3 ILH teams finish in the top four then 2 lower ranked OIA teams get into the tourney over them.

[gopunahou]

Gonna be tough to watch the states if the 3 ILH teams finish in the top four then 2 lower ranked OIA teams get into the tourney over them.

I don't remember a time when that's ever happened. Maybe 1993, but that's it. Regardless, the likelihood is that there'll be at least public school team the top 3. There always is one dominant one. This past year, Mililani and Kahuku likely would've finished in the top 3.

[Markeke]

Gonna be tough to watch the states if the 3 ILH teams finish in the top four then 2 lower ranked OIA teams get into the tourney over them.

I don't remember a time when that's ever happened. Maybe 1993, but that's it. Regardless, the likelihood is that there'll be at least public school team the top 3. There always is one dominant one. This past year, Mililani and Kahuku likely would've finished in the top 3.

I think what soleu meant was that in the HHSAA finals, it's still 1 ILH and 3 OIA. The argument will continue on that format if the three top OIA teams lose against an ILH team during the interleague match ups. For season 2018 and 19, that HHSAA State format stays. The argument will continue for a 2 ILH 2 OIA format State Championship.