Cole or chevan as starter for Hawaii bowl!

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Starter for next week and Hawaii bowl?

Cole Macdonald because he started the season for us
17
61%
Chevan cordeiro because he has the hot hand
8
29%
Jeremy Moussa because he has a better arm
1
4%
Other UH QB not mentioned.
2
7%
 
Total votes: 28

TheDuke
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Re: Cole or chevan as starter?

Post by TheDuke »

poidog wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:56 am
TheDuke wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:27 am I am not happy with the game planning and game calling starting with the Army game. No improvement. And Bone head coaching decisions: RPO fron the 2 in the endzone vs a quick hitter, going for 4th down in bad field position, not taking field goals, terrible clock management and timeouts, poor utilization of a 5th receiver and RBs in the passing game. NO IMPROVEMENT.
but they didn't do any of that in this past game? They took 2 FG's that helped us stay within striking distance (6 points at the half was way better than 0 points and made the difference in the game). the 4th down attempts were necessary and in the right part of the field. Rolo even punted with 13 minutes left in the 4th quarter and trusted his defense to get them the ball back. You can't say "no improvement" when there was "some improvement". I think this was Rolo's best coached game this season and you could tell that he didn't want to make the same reckless mistakes he made in the losing streak leading up to this.
Game plan? Play calling? why were we getting killed the first three quarters?

One game out of thirteen isn't improvement. Improvement is when you learn from your mistakes and demonstrate in game consistency. It isn't a one game thing.

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Re: Cole or chevan as starter?

Post by TheDuke »

TheDuke wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:20 am
poidog wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:56 am
TheDuke wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:27 am I am not happy with the game planning and game calling starting with the Army game. No improvement. And Bone head coaching decisions: RPO fron the 2 in the endzone vs a quick hitter, going for 4th down in bad field position, not taking field goals, terrible clock management and timeouts, poor utilization of a 5th receiver and RBs in the passing game. NO IMPROVEMENT.
but they didn't do any of that in this past game? They took 2 FG's that helped us stay within striking distance (6 points at the half was way better than 0 points and made the difference in the game). the 4th down attempts were necessary and in the right part of the field. Rolo even punted with 13 minutes left in the 4th quarter and trusted his defense to get them the ball back. You can't say "no improvement" when there was "some improvement". I think this was Rolo's best coached game this season and you could tell that he didn't want to make the same reckless mistakes he made in the losing streak leading up to this.
Game plan? Play calling? why were we getting killed the first three quarters?

One game out of thirteen isn't improvement. Improvement is when you learn from your mistakes and demonstrate in game consistency. It isn't a one game thing.
My "no improvement" statement is in reference to game planning and play calling. Bonehead decisions are in referenence to in game decision making. I agree that decision making improved. I can't say that about game plans and play calling.

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Re: Cole or chevan as starter?

Post by poidog »

TheDuke wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:33 am My "no improvement" statement is in reference to game planning and play calling. Bonehead decisions are in referenence to in game decision making. I agree that decision making improved. I can't say that about game plans and play calling.
Fair enough. I was only talking about the decision making. I know people have been critical (rightly so) of Rolo's recklessness. I thought he made an improvement in this area and he didn't "lose the game" for the team whereas he may have done so against Nevada earlier in the season.

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Re: Cole or chevan as starter?

Post by Palolo_2LA »

I figured the play calling would be better with 2 weeks to prep, but it was the same old half stepping. There are elements that seemed forced, like running the ball on consecutive plays even when we backed up near our own goal line. WTH? I think Rolo needs to remove the "passing and running" coordinator titles from Stuz and Brian, so he can eliminate the interference and do his thing.
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Re: Cole or chevan as starter?

Post by poidog »

Palolo_2LA wrote: Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:29 am I figured the play calling would be better with 2 weeks to prep, but it was the same old half stepping. There are elements that seemed forced, like running the ball on consecutive plays even when we backed up near our own goal line. WTH? I think Rolo needs to remove the "passing and running" coordinator titles from Stuz and Brian, so he can eliminate the interference and do his thing.
I'm going to go the other way and say that running in that situation was the right thing to do. UNLV was dropping 7 - 8 pretty much the whole game. The running game should have been more effective, but it just wasn't because the o-line played pretty poorly in terms of run blocking for 3 quarters. they played better in the 4th quarter and that's why the few run plays that were called were successful. UNLV was playing with 2 down-linemen at that point because we hadn't proven to be able to run the ball successfully up until then.

I also have reservations about blaming everything on play calling because it is hard to go back and watch every game from the Army game on and not notice how consistently "off" Cole's throws have been. So many passes that are not deep balls are thrown way too high, and against UNLV it was the cause of two INTs and many incomplete passes. I can't have a strong opinion about play calls if every other Out pattern the QB throws sails over the receivers' heads. throughout the middle and second half of the season, even on basic plays like the RPO and cole pulls it and throws it, the receiver dragging across the middle is usually open but the passes have been just all over the place.

It seems like there was a certain looseness that Cole was playing with in the first half of the season that just disappeared and seeing so many defenders dropping back into coverage has him confused. Meanwhile, the run game has been so ineffective that they can't make teams pay for dropping so many people back (and the OG's are too slow to get upfield and make the necessary blocks to spring the receiver on the bubble screens). It is a young o-line and they will get better with time, but for right now they are a weakness that needs to be worked around. Cordeiro has the accuracy and the trust in his deep ball to force his will on defenses in tight situations, but we have yet to see him work a full playbook through a full game script. There is no better time for it than this week, coming off a confidence-building win and with a standard week of practice and game prep. I really feel that if we get higher completion % out of the QB and get 1-2 more yards per rush that the play calling won't feel like such a problem.

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Re: Cole or chevan as starter?

Post by ubercow »

per the coaches show, he said he's going to take a gm-like approach with cordeiro and his redshirt status. probably means starting cole if he's good to go, and looking big-picture and putting in chevan against sdsu only if it's really worth it. or maybe putting him in and possibly keeping him out of the bowl game.

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Re: Cole or chevan as starter?

Post by TheDuke »

Army game is when you started to see 8 deep. With LBs 5 to 10 yards deep and 4 in a zone and pess coverage by the CBs the passing windows shrink and you have to make throws over LBs to shorter receivers. Guess what a QB is not as accurate and because you have to throw over LBs that have dropped deeper you get over throws. I don't have to go back and look at game film to know we haven't used RBs that can catch on flair and wheel routes. How many times have we used jet sweeps, jet sweep fakes, a reverse play, a misdirection on a run play. We did use a quick toss to Dale and he did beat a LB for a score once. Game planning was been terrible. It's only been in desperation and we had to go deep and over the top and Jo Jo had to make a play that something good happened. Coaches haven't figured it out. Coaches haven't figured out how to get our speed or skill guys in space and create one-on-one situations. Continuing to throw into the teeth of a press, 8 deep D is in my opinion not very smart.

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Re: Cole or chevan as starter?

Post by uhwarriors »

I got to see the UNLV videos at the Na Koa lunch. Interestingly the play calling for McDonald and Cordeiro was pretty similar. But the execution and results were different.

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Re: Cole or chevan as starter?

Post by cabanalane »

Any thoughts on UNLV's defense? Meaning, UNLV had total control of the game until the last 12 minutes. Do you think the defense sort of went to sleep? It was UNLV's game to loose because they won the game after the 1st quarter.

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Re: Cole or chevan as starter?

Post by Palolo_2LA »

poidog wrote: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:33 am
Palolo_2LA wrote: Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:29 am I figured the play calling would be better with 2 weeks to prep, but it was the same old half stepping. There are elements that seemed forced, like running the ball on consecutive plays even when we backed up near our own goal line. WTH? I think Rolo needs to remove the "passing and running" coordinator titles from Stuz and Brian, so he can eliminate the interference and do his thing.
I'm going to go the other way and say that running in that situation was the right thing to do. UNLV was dropping 7 - 8 pretty much the whole game. The running game should have been more effective, but it just wasn't because the o-line played pretty poorly in terms of run blocking for 3 quarters. they played better in the 4th quarter and that's why the few run plays that were called were successful. UNLV was playing with 2 down-linemen at that point because we hadn't proven to be able to run the ball successfully up until then.

I also have reservations about blaming everything on play calling because it is hard to go back and watch every game from the Army game on and not notice how consistently "off" Cole's throws have been. So many passes that are not deep balls are thrown way too high, and against UNLV it was the cause of two INTs and many incomplete passes. I can't have a strong opinion about play calls if every other Out pattern the QB throws sails over the receivers' heads. throughout the middle and second half of the season, even on basic plays like the RPO and cole pulls it and throws it, the receiver dragging across the middle is usually open but the passes have been just all over the place.

It seems like there was a certain looseness that Cole was playing with in the first half of the season that just disappeared and seeing so many defenders dropping back into coverage has him confused. Meanwhile, the run game has been so ineffective that they can't make teams pay for dropping so many people back (and the OG's are too slow to get upfield and make the necessary blocks to spring the receiver on the bubble screens). It is a young o-line and they will get better with time, but for right now they are a weakness that needs to be worked around. Cordeiro has the accuracy and the trust in his deep ball to force his will on defenses in tight situations, but we have yet to see him work a full playbook through a full game script. There is no better time for it than this week, coming off a confidence-building win and with a standard week of practice and game prep. I really feel that if we get higher completion % out of the QB and get 1-2 more yards per rush that the play calling won't feel like such a problem.
Not when the run block is poor and the running wasn't effective all game. Besides the fact that no RB bounced outside, except for Holly. That situation was like the old Chow days.

Play-calling has everything to do with success as that is the foundation of what the players are doing. Saying play-calling isn't important is like saying computer code doesn't matter - hardware can't run jobs/tasks you want it to do without proper code as a team can be effective w/out proper play-calling. What is the first thing to come up when a team lets go of a Head Coach - play-calling for the O or D. Play-calling (strategy) separates the best teams and the "others".
Be humble and confident in yourself and all things you do. :zook:

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Re: Cole or chevan as starter?

Post by uhwarriors »

cabanalane wrote: Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:02 am Any thoughts on UNLV's defense? Meaning, UNLV had total control of the game until the last 12 minutes. Do you think the defense sort of went to sleep? It was UNLV's game to loose because they won the game after the 1st quarter.
UNLV was playing the same coverages, primarily Cover 3 with 5 under or Quarters Coverage (4 deep) throughout the game. The opportunities were there the whole game but we didn't execute well until the 4th quarter. For example, on the same play (Ward's 1st TD) in the 4th quarter, Stubblefield was totally uncovered along the left sideline for a TD earlier in the game. It always comes down to execution. The Oline protecting, QB and WRs making the right reads, WRs running the right routes, throwing accurately and catching the ball.

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Re: Cole or chevan as starter?

Post by wailukuwarriorfan »

Anyone notice the drop off in Cole's accuracy and passing consistency since sitting out with an undisclosed injury for the Wyoming game?

He hasn't been the same since. It could also be attributed to the tougher schedule of opponents since then, with better DB coverage on our WR's and Slots, but I suspect that it may be due to his injury.

He has also been subjected to constant beatings by sacks from opposing DL's and DE's the past few games. Maybe he just needs more time to heal. Being the gamer that he is, he may be insisting that he is ready to go, but it may be better for him to just sit out and rest.

If his injury is the cause, playing back ups would be better for Cole and the team. With Chevan having already played 3 games, it allows him one more game and still preserve his redshirt season. I would rather see Chevan play in the bowl game at home, if he plays his fourth game.

Playing Moussa in San Diego gives him opportunity for more game time reps and gives Cole more time to heal up.

By the time the Hawaii Bowl comes around, let the best QB play.

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Re: Cole or chevan as starter?

Post by poidog »

uhwarriors wrote: Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:36 am I got to see the UNLV videos at the Na Koa lunch. Interestingly the play calling for McDonald and Cordeiro was pretty similar. But the execution and results were different.
I'm not surprised to hear this. I think Cordeiro just has a better feel for what is actually open when it is not obvious what is open. That first TD to JoJo Ward was a result of Cordeiro having a good feel for how much of a window there was to get the ball to Ward before the safety would be able to slide over and make a play on the ball. There were defenders around the play, but he put it in the window. I think that's where Cole struggles - being able to put the ball in the window. When he's throwing into coverage it seems to me that he's trying to put the ball on the receiver rather than putting the ball where the opening is. That's an execution thing and not a play calling thing, in my opinion.

I remember JJ used to say that on every run&shoot play there's an opportunity for a touchdown... That's what we saw in the 4th quarter last weekend.

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Re: Cole or chevan as starter?

Post by stranger808 »

Start McD, and have Moussa play some too. No reason to sacrifice Chevan's redshirt for one game, we're already bowl eligible.
No mattah how critical, I support da coach, Rolo. I love what he doing wit Da WARRIORS.

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Re: Cole or chevan as starter?

Post by daddy »

As for this week, there's zero reason to play Chevan in this game. It's basically a meaningless game and one that, if we're honest, Hawaii probably loses regardless of who plays QB. Play Cole and take a shot, then see who has the best month of practice and roll from there. I would much rather Chevan start or play in the Bowl vs burning eligibility by playing in what is basically an exhibition game.

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