Run & Shoot returning?

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poidog
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Run & Shoot returning?

#1 Post by poidog » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:12 pm

I'm surprised no one has started a thread about this yet. Thoughts?

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Re: Run & Shoot returning?

#2 Post by RedZone » Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:39 pm

One of biggest problems this past season was the redzone offense. As I remember we struggled in the redzone with the r&s. No tightends in the r&s. I think it will be a modified version. Even JJ modified his r&s. If Brown is the qb how quickly will he learn the offense? JJ used to say that it took a season for a qb before the lights came on in his head. We will need more receivers like Bess and GM. So far I see Ursua. We will also need wide outs who can go long and stretch the defense. Do we have that? I didn’t see it last season. Early in the season the r&s was slow to develop. Usually our defense needed to keep us in the game. Do we have that? I think that we will still have to run the ball effectively. If Dru can’t connect with our receivers with the deep ball we will see the same kind of defenses we have been seeing.
Not doubting, not hating, not loving, just hoping because I am a fan.

Wyoming is going to smoke our butts.


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Re: Run & Shoot returning?

#3 Post by poidog » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:09 am

RedZone wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:39 pm
One of biggest problems this past season was the redzone offense. As I remember we struggled in the redzone with the r&s.
I think we did pretty good in the red zone with the 2010 iteration of the Run & Shoot (except for at Colorado where we ran out of oxygen). The 2010 offense was very much Rolo and Brian Smith, if I remember correctly. From what I understand, he wanted to do some things with the TE and mix it up a little, but was overruled by the elder members of the staff who were R&S traditionalists. If Rolo can replicate that 2010 offense, I'll be pretty happy.

Bryant Moniz only had one spring and one fall camp and picked it up quick enough. Can they do it again with Dru Brown or another QB? Chevan Cordeiro?

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Re: Run & Shoot returning?

#4 Post by uhwarriors » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:32 am

Those close to the program know the move to more run and shoot (R&S) has been in the making for some time now. Now that Rolo has said it in public, I’ll make share my observations and thoughts.

When Rolo was hired, he said he would design the offense to play to the strengths of the returning players and what their backgrounds were. It would be a be a hybrid of power, read option, RPO and some R&S. During the 2016 spring and fall practices, observers could see that part of the passing offense included 4 wideouts. But the R&S route site adjustments were somewhat limited and in some cases “locked” or having no site adjustments. The 3 wideout, 1 TE/H back RPO as well passing game also had some site adjusted routes.

Woolsey had the benefit of spring practice in 2016 and was far ahead of Brown, Brownholtz and McDonald especially with the 4 wideout package when they came into fall camp. Brown, Brownholtz and McDonald all came from more RPO and read option type backgrounds. Although Woolsey was generally not too effective during the first part of the season, they ran the 4 wideout package a lot. When the switch was made to Brown in mid-season, the passing offense gravitated away from the 4 wideout package because of his lack of experience with it and the corresponding reads. Right at the end of the 2016 season as Brown got more experience, they went back to some of the 4 wideout package and had some success.

During the 2017 spring practice observers could see that they were installing a lot more of the site adjusted routes into the 4 wideout package. They were also doing it with the 3 wideout, 1 H back package. It should be pointed out that R&S does not mean 4 wideout only. It can be out of any formation. It’s the concept of the QB and receivers reading the coverage and making adjustments to the routes rather than using a specific formation. Using Jones’ R&S play names, Choice, Streak, Switch, Divide, Delay, Levels, Double Out and other plays were all part of the offense either in 4 wideout or 3 wideout, 1 TE/H back formations. Observers could also see that Brown picked up the expanded passing game a lot more than the other QBs and in fact widen the gap between himself and the others.

Unfortunately. injuries on both sides of the ball plagued the team in 2017 and for most of the season the 4 wideout was sparingly used. However, during the last 3 or 4 games, the 4 wideout was used more. It appeared to me that they were adjusting routes and that was confirmed during the video sessions at the Na Koa lunches.

What can we expect in the upcoming season? It sounds like there will be heavier emphasis with the passing game with 4 wideout as the base formation and a pretty full complement of R&S route adjustments. I also suspect we’ll see TE/H back formations, but these will be personnel packages that will be used as change ups.

Rolo ran a version of the R&S in 2010 and 2011 which had many of the June Jones’ plays. But it also had a lot variations and refinements in the passing game. The offense also included zone, read option and some elementary RPO. If you recall, Alex Green ran for 1,199 yards and 18 TDs in 2010. Most of that came off the zone and read option game. Bryant Moniz passed for 5,040 yards and 39 TDs.

The good news is that we’re not starting from scratch with the shift in emphasis in the offense. The current QBs and receivers already have some experience with R&S concepts and some of the base plays were already in the playbook last year. However, they will need to become much proficient with it and execute at a much higher level. It’s a high risk and high return offense. If everyone is on the same page and it’s clicking, it can be a thing of beauty. If not, there can be a lot of quick 3 and outs and it can get ugly fast. Even in the Jones’ era, that happened many times. So much so that fans were saying Jones was stubborn, that he should run more and he should use a TE.

A big concern is the loss of Dylan Collie. He was clearly the most well-versed receiver with the R&S concepts the past two seasons. He even played WR at times because he was just better at reading coverages and making the right adjustments than others. Even though Collie wasn’t always consistent catching the ball, he was always making the right reads and where he was supposed to be. Many times when Brown held the ball or threw a pick, it was because receivers weren’t running the right routes.

Fortunately, JC transfer Cedric Byrd will participate in spring practice and hopefully can pick up the offense. Other receivers coming in the fall will be way behind and will have a hard time getting caught up. True freshman QB Jeremy Moussa has enrolled in school and will participate in spring practice. The experience will be invaluable for him. Chevan Cordeiro is very familiar with Ron Lee’s version of the R&S. He won’t get reps during spring practice, but with his background he could catch up quickly during the summer.

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Re: Run & Shoot returning?

#5 Post by go bows » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:36 am

Many posters dismiss what type of players Rolo inherited -- players designed to run power schemes and receivers to win one on one matchups based on play action.

Rolo marvels at JJ's 1999 team since JJ always maintain "we do what we do" mantra. Decided to convert to the r&s instantly. We all know the results.

Rolo integrated several offenses to match personnel. The results were very good -- bowl team and at one time a top five rusher and top five receiver. Injuries decimated the offense since the backups were unable to perform.

Rolo is recruiting players that are more capable of playing JJ's run and shoot. Timoteo and Stubblefield both thrived in the r&s during high school. Both need space to operate effectively.

The offense is setup for CC. Plus Rolo has Chung and Greely to run power stuff. IMO this is the optimal time to reimplement JJ's r&s. This should increase season ticket sales.

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Re: Run & Shoot returning?

#6 Post by UnBiasFan » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:31 am

A R&S coach has far more patience with the QB and receivers than most fans do.
3 and outs. Interceptions. Passes thrown into an empty part of the field.
Fans then jump on the message boards and start saying what POS the QB is.

I guess because the program has been down for a while our expections are lower.

But, I really don’t think most fans can keep their mouths shut through a rebuilding year with the R&S.

I can wait. But most will be a bunch of crybabies.

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Re: Run & Shoot returning?

#7 Post by cabanalane » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:24 am

Some will say Run & Shoot has past it's freshness. Every defense should know how to cover that. We can go back to highlights, and see how awesome it was. But IIRC, there was also a lot of 3 and out too. And running the ball instead of a pass may be a good play to get that 2-3 yard.

Paul Johnson's Triple Option was awesome to watch and then the defense caught up. Therefore the end of the Wagner era IMO. However, the Triple Option lives well at Navy with Kenny N. With that said, I think there is a place for Run & Shoot.

Let's bring it back. Right now, I just want to see exciting UH football. I understand a win is a win. But I think excitement is what the program needs.

Chow played a very boring style of offense (Pro-Style), even when it was effective. Outside of that one miracle win play, I really can't recall any excitement.

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Re: Run & Shoot returning?

#8 Post by cabanalane » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:33 am

RedZone wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:39 pm
If Dru can’t connect with our receivers with the deep ball we will see the same kind of defenses we have been seeing.
I like D. Brown. Like Woosley, it was the best UH got at the time. If we look at highlight films, to me, the ball zips out of the QBs hands like Chang, Moniz, Colt, and Rolo. Brown's throws are like M. Carter. Not geat, but good, ok. At least not sad and slow like Gabriel's.

If UH wants to go back to Run and Shoot, the QB need a stronger arm.

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Re: Run & Shoot returning?

#9 Post by RedZone » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:46 am

poidog wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:09 am
RedZone wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:39 pm
One of biggest problems this past season was the redzone offense. As I remember we struggled in the redzone with the r&s.
I think we did pretty good in the red zone with the 2010 iteration of the Run & Shoot (except for at Colorado where we ran out of oxygen). The 2010 offense was very much Rolo and Brian Smith, if I remember correctly. From what I understand, he wanted to do some things with the TE and mix it up a little, but was overruled by the elder members of the staff who were R&S traditionalists. If Rolo can replicate that 2010 offense, I'll be pretty happy.

Bryant Moniz only had one spring and one fall camp and picked it up quick enough. Can they do it again with Dru Brown or another QB? Chevan Cordeiro?
The 2010 offense had Salas, Pilares and Green. All seniors in the system. All ended up in the pros. Today we have maybe Ursua? I think Mouse had a lot to do with the 2010 offense.
Not doubting, not hating, not loving, just hoping because I am a fan.

Wyoming is going to smoke our butts.


We are Simba!

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Re: Run & Shoot returning?

#10 Post by RedZone » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:24 am

cabanalane wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:24 am
Some will say Run & Shoot has past it's freshness. Every defense should know how to cover that. We can go back to highlights, and see how awesome it was. But IIRC, there was also a lot of 3 and out too. And running the ball instead of a pass may be a good play to get that 2-3 yard.

Paul Johnson's Triple Option was awesome to watch and then the defense caught up. Therefore the end of the Wagner era IMO. However, the Triple Option lives well at Navy with Kenny N. With that said, I think there is a place for Run & Shoot.

Let's bring it back. Right now, I just want to see exciting UH football. I understand a win is a win. But I think excitement is what the program needs.

Chow played a very boring style of offense (Pro-Style), even when it was effective. Outside of that one miracle win play, I really can't recall any excitement.

Bob Wagners offense also included some run and shoot. He also had some sprint out pass option which I like for smaller quicker qbs who can run.
Not doubting, not hating, not loving, just hoping because I am a fan.

Wyoming is going to smoke our butts.


We are Simba!

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Re: Run & Shoot returning?

#11 Post by genks » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:41 am

cabanalane wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:33 am
RedZone wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:39 pm
If Dru can’t connect with our receivers with the deep ball we will see the same kind of defenses we have been seeing.
I like D. Brown. Like Woosley, it was the best UH got at the time. If we look at highlight films, to me, the ball zips out of the QBs hands like Chang, Moniz, Colt, and Rolo. Brown's throws are like M. Carter. Not geat, but good, ok. At least not sad and slow like Gabriel's.

If UH wants to go back to Run and Shoot, the QB need a stronger arm.
Chevan can do that. It was really fun to watch him develop over this season

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Re: Run & Shoot returning?

#12 Post by J-Rod » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:42 pm

I wouldn't be blown away if by midseason next year (maybe even earlier) we see one of the freshman QBs play.

I like the move to the R&S. I don't think it will befuddle defenses like it used to, everyone in college football runs these concepts to some extent. It's not as foreign to defenses as it was back in the 2000s. That said, we need an identity on offense, and the team lacked one in 2017. I don't care which direction it is, just pick one. Rolo has picked one.

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Re: Run & Shoot returning?

#13 Post by stranger808 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:59 pm

Nice reads, thanks warrior fans, keep 'um coming. Love reading about warrior football.

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Re: Run & Shoot returning?

#14 Post by WarriorTyme » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:50 am

Watching the New England Patriots today and getting flash backs of coach June Jones being asked in 2007 if the Patriots are using some of his plays. I hope Rolo does bring back those Black on Black uniforms, bring back the Hawaii Warriors and is watching the Patriots offense today. Hawaii can still use the Tight End in a modified version of the RnS or spread offense.

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Re: Run & Shoot returning?

#15 Post by stranger808 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:10 pm

WarriorTyme wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:50 am
Watching the New England Patriots today and getting flash backs of coach June Jones being asked in 2007 if the Patriots are using some of his plays. I hope Rolo does bring back those Black on Black uniforms, bring back the Hawaii Warriors and is watching the Patriots offense today. Hawaii can still use the Tight End in a modified version of the RnS or spread offense.
Heck Yeah!!!! :dubthum:

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