Are we afraid to state the obvious?

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Hawkpeter
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Re: Are we afraid to state the obvious?

Post by Hawkpeter »

Palolo_2LA wrote:
Hawkpeter wrote:Everyone looks terrible when there is systemic failure.

On the whole, football has an over-supply of labour. There are many players who could play well for Hawaii, fundamental is sound systems and coaches who can coherently implement them.

There needs to be an explanation as to how teams can go from very good to very bad, and very bad to very good in a short period of time. The obvious answer is that the talent is unrealized in the poor performances. UH must choose the right coach, the recruiting is secondary to that.
Best coach without talented players = limited wins


Which provides the same result as the mythical good coach with untalented players. The difference is that players turn over naturally in college football. A bad coach you are stuck with for years.

This is not a difficult concept to understand.

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Re: Are we afraid to state the obvious?

Post by oldhawaiiguy »

When you watch UH play the past few years and in the trenches, they're easily pushed around. This where you need to build on offense and defense. Skill players look better when the trenches are won. The same is true for the front 7 on defense. Once you obtain that edge the wins will roll in.

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Re: Are we afraid to state the obvious?

Post by cabanalane »

oldhawaiiguy wrote:When you watch UH play the past few years and in the trenches, they're easily pushed around. This where you need to build on offense and defense. Skill players look better when the trenches are won. The same is true for the front 7 on defense. Once you obtain that edge the wins will roll in.
True.

Because JJ will most likely be the next coach, I've been watching some old videos/games.

No matter what the score was, these guys just know they can get it done. It doesn't always happen in a win, but it's the aura about the team on both sides of the ball.

This current team (last few years) don't have it.

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Re: Are we afraid to state the obvious?

Post by Palolo_2LA »

oldhawaiiguy wrote:When you watch UH play the past few years and in the trenches, they're easily pushed around. This where you need to build on offense and defense. Skill players look better when the trenches are won. The same is true for the front 7 on defense. Once you obtain that edge the wins will roll in.
The OL has been crappy during NC era. UH needs a significant upgrade on both sides for sure.
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Re: Are we afraid to state the obvious?

Post by FCWarrior »

So would you prefer sone with speed or someone that runs routes the best?

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Re: Are we afraid to state the obvious?

Post by RedZone »

FCWarrior wrote:So would you prefer sone with speed or someone that runs routes the best?
Pilares was one of the best route runners I have seen at UH. I used to go into the stadium early just to watch the receivers and qbs working out on their own.
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Re: Are we afraid to state the obvious?

Post by RedZone »

Palolo_2LA wrote:
oldhawaiiguy wrote:When you watch UH play the past few years and in the trenches, they're easily pushed around. This where you need to build on offense and defense. Skill players look better when the trenches are won. The same is true for the front 7 on defense. Once you obtain that edge the wins will roll in.
The OL has been crappy during NC era. UH needs a significant upgrade on both sides for sure.
I think we have some good olinemen. They are young as a group and will use this year to build on. Other coaches have been asking about Dejon which is a good way to know who they have their eyes on. Our center is a freshman who will only get better. I like how our oline played in the last game.
Not doubting, not hating, not loving, just hoping because I am a fan.

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Re: Are we afraid to state the obvious?

Post by RedZone »

Rigo could win a job on a P5 team.
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Re: Are we afraid to state the obvious?

Post by xer 21 »

Grinch wrote:I think we have talent, including Kennedy, ALL of our linebackers, a few of our WRs - including Ewaliko. Speaking of Ewaliko - why doesn't he get more looks either at slot or WR? Guy making plays on special teams.
because Ewaliko runs terrible routes and cuts with the agility of a 40 year old.

Just being honest here. HE's only fast in a straight line. if you ever watch him in practice, he's always running wrong routes and runs them sloppy.
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Re: Are we afraid to state the obvious?

Post by poidog »

xer 21 wrote:
Grinch wrote:I think we have talent, including Kennedy, ALL of our linebackers, a few of our WRs - including Ewaliko. Speaking of Ewaliko - why doesn't he get more looks either at slot or WR? Guy making plays on special teams.
because Ewaliko runs terrible routes and cuts with the agility of a 40 year old.

Just being honest here. HE's only fast in a straight line. if you ever watch him in practice, he's always running wrong routes and runs them sloppy.
I heard he struggles with the playbook. However, he did get some offensive snaps @ UNLV, though...

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Re: Are we afraid to state the obvious?

Post by wailukuwarriorfan »

xer 21 wrote:
Grinch wrote:I think we have talent, including Kennedy, ALL of our linebackers, a few of our WRs - including Ewaliko. Speaking of Ewaliko - why doesn't he get more looks either at slot or WR? Guy making plays on special teams.
because Ewaliko runs terrible routes and cuts with the agility of a 40 year old.

Just being honest here. HE's only fast in a straight line. if you ever watch him in practice, he's always running wrong routes and runs them sloppy.
Love how you support our student/athletes. If he can't run routes, use him in other ways where his speed can move the ball on offense. He was effective on jet sweeps and fly routes in previous years and could be used effectively as a Wildcat with blocking backs and TE's. Keeping him on the sidelines is just counter-productive for the offense, considering the number of drops being made by the WR's and slots.

And the comment about cutting with the agility of a 40 year old, jeez, would you be able to tackle him on a open field?

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Re: Are we afraid to state the obvious?

Post by 808Hawaii »

poidog wrote:
Palolo_2LA wrote:The lack of talent on this team is the main factor of the continued losing. Offensive and defensive schemes and coaching have an impact, however, the lack of legit D1 players is nuts. There is at most 5 guys who could start at other schools and that's being optimistic. Kennedy is the only guy I can safely say could start at a P5 school. The question for all is how to improve the talent level as the UH brand has never been lower, so the lure is abysmal?
Totally disagree. If the players are so bad that they can't start at other schools, how were we two minutes away from winning at UNM, ahead by 17 over UNR, and how the heck did we beat CU? Coaching lost us the UNR and UNM games. Stop trying to paint Chow in a better light already.
That wouldn't be painting Chow in a better light. Chow and his assembled staff recruited the talent on the field. I agree that very few players on this team woul dbe starting at P5 schools. Tulimasealii, yes. Maybe Gener. Maybe Ben Clarke. Maybe Garcia-Williams. And Rigo and Ewaliko on special teams. That's it. Lack of talent is all Chow's fault.
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Re: Are we afraid to state the obvious?

Post by xer 21 »

wailukuwarriorfan wrote:
Love how you support our student/athletes.
im not gonna lie and pretend he's a good receiver when he isnt, especially when people are asking why he's not playing like its a big conspiracy.
wailukuwarriorfan wrote: He was effective on jet sweeps and fly routes in previous years
You mean in high school? im sorry, but he had 7 carries all year last year which was his only year. you're either thinking of someone else or remembering his only two good runs. pretty much all of his useful catches (out of all 6 of them) were on go routes as well.

point is, you're claiming he was effective at anything because he had a tiny amount of big plays and sat the rest of the time. that's a big leap.
wailukuwarriorfan wrote:
could be used effectively as a Wildcat with blocking backs and TE's.
what's the point when he's no threat to throw though? they're just going to stack the box on such an obvious play call.
wailukuwarriorfan wrote:
Keeping him on the sidelines is just counter-productive for the offense, considering the number of drops being made by the WR's and slots.
how is it counter productive if he cant run the routes and struggles with the play book? i'd rather have a reciever drop the ball than not even be there to drop it.

right now, every receiver on the field is significantly better than him. speed is speed, but its pointless if you're running to the wrong spot and you cant change direction quickly enough to fool a linebacker.
wailukuwarriorfan wrote:
And the comment about cutting with the agility of a 40 year old, jeez, would you be able to tackle him on a open field?
am i a D1 defensive back? no. so why even ask the question other than to defelct the discussion from the truth? the real question is, can he cut well enough to shake a DB off his route, and the answer is no. he cant. if he's not beating someone over the top, he's not beating anyone.
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Re: Are we afraid to state the obvious?

Post by SundayJam »

I like the talent.
Hiring new assistants every other year does not promote.
There are plenty of examples of ex-Hawaii players that exceeded at other universities.
There are also numerous mundane U of Hawaii players (according to the media) that excelled in the NFL.

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Re: Are we afraid to state the obvious?

Post by wailukuwarriorfan »

xer 21 wrote:
wailukuwarriorfan wrote:
Love how you support our student/athletes.
im not gonna lie and pretend he's a good receiver when he isnt, especially when people are asking why he's not playing like its a big conspiracy.
wailukuwarriorfan wrote: He was effective on jet sweeps and fly routes in previous years
You mean in high school? im sorry, but he had 7 carries all year last year which was his only year. you're either thinking of someone else or remembering his only two good runs. pretty much all of his useful catches (out of all 6 of them) were on go routes as well.

point is, you're claiming he was effective at anything because he had a tiny amount of big plays and sat the rest of the time. that's a big leap.
wailukuwarriorfan wrote:
could be used effectively as a Wildcat with blocking backs and TE's.
what's the point when he's no threat to throw though? they're just going to stack the box on such an obvious play call.
wailukuwarriorfan wrote:
Keeping him on the sidelines is just counter-productive for the offense, considering the number of drops being made by the WR's and slots.
how is it counter productive if he cant run the routes and struggles with the play book? i'd rather have a reciever drop the ball than not even be there to drop it.

right now, every receiver on the field is significantly better than him. speed is speed, but its pointless if you're running to the wrong spot and you cant change direction quickly enough to fool a linebacker.
wailukuwarriorfan wrote:
And the comment about cutting with the agility of a 40 year old, jeez, would you be able to tackle him on a open field?
am i a D1 defensive back? no. so why even ask the question other than to defelct the discussion from the truth? the real question is, can he cut well enough to shake a DB off his route, and the answer is no. he cant. if he's not beating someone over the top, he's not beating anyone.
Criticizing our student athletes who commit to stay and play at home is just weak. It's also counter productive to local recruiting. But I get that being a pessimist and kicking and criticizing our players when they're losing works for you.

People are asking why he's not playing because they feel he can contribute to the offense, simple. We don't have to agree with your negativity or your opinion.

And yes, I was talking about his limited touches last year, not in high school. The jet sweeps were productive when he was used, and the fly routes or go routes were effective as well for long gains when the ball was thrown his way. And yes, he did catch the ball. So that was the point. Don't try to change the point I was making, you don't need to interpret much, just read and comprehend.

And your position is that he's not a threat to throw, his JR year in HS, (before he got hurt) he had a 66% pass completion percentage. Isn't that higher than the passing stats of our starting QB's with playing time this year? Yes, he didn't pass much, but doesn't a undefeated, 22-0 win - loss record prove that he can be effective? And wouldn't the opposing team, as you say, "just stack the box" to stop him? They would, they did and he still found a way to help his team win.

Your responses really show your lack of comprehension. You do understand the fly route or go route? It's designed for speedy receivers that can outrun their coverage. He has consistently shown the ability to do that when given the chance and he does catch the ball. There is no cutting or route to run, its go and fly. Ewaliko can fly.

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