Please STOP the Crying

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CoconutKid
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Re: Please STOP the Crying

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SundayJam wrote:
CoconutKid wrote: You are UNBELIEVABLY dense. You start out by calling me misinformed, yet show your lack of knowledge in EVERY SINGLE POST!!!!

Elimimian, Naoele and Jones came BECAUSE Chow gave them a chance. I'll state it again: it addresses your claim that "Norm Chow has only EVER staffed down-side of the career coaches". Ahh but now you change your argument yet again to " The offensive and defensive coordinators for Hawaii have all been...well....has beens". I'm not going to bother with a rebuttal. You'll just change your argument yet again.

Gary Beemer had NOTHING to do with Blake Muir and his training. Beemer came to UH AFTER Muir transferred. If you had any knowledge of the program at all you would have know that instead of once again showing how absolutely misinformed you are. Or you could have looked it up. But you probably don't know how.

And yes, you don't have reading comprehension problems. Your issues clearly run much deeper than that.
I will interpret your rant in several ways. One, you don't like to be called misinformed. So much so that you get personal with your rebuttals. Two, you get hung up on semantics. I should have said, "Chow mostly staffs has-been coaches." Is that clear now? I'm not changing my argument, really. Also, I don't know the specifics of Dwayne Johnson's or Gary Beemer's careers, but that's hardly evidence of being misinformed. I think that kind of information is petty. I think I was pretty clear in stating that coach McMackin has influenced many storied football teams and players. He even received national recognition for his recruiting efforts.

My grade for McMackin's time at Hawaii: B+. My grade for Chow's time at Hawaii: D-. Chow would have scored an F, but now that I know he hired such an amazing Stength and Conditioning coach, I've changed my grade.
I have no issue with being called misinformed. I've been called worse. At the bare minimum, tell me how I'm misinformed...I'd like to learn something new. But you've told me how misinformed I am by spreading misinformation and using that misinformation to backup more misinformation. YOU used Dwayne Johnson as an example of McMackin recruiting superstars, but you admit you know nothing about his football career. You've made incorrect assertions about how poor a S&C coach Gary Beemer is, and then admit you know little about him as a coach.

We've all been disappointed with Chow. The next few games will show whether the program can progress under him. Many have already made their decision about him. And he really has no one to blame but himself. If Wittek does not overcome his injury and perform well against sdsu, it WILL mark the beginning of the end of the Chow era.

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Re: Please STOP the Crying

Post by Egonator »

Few Opinions...
1.) Mack had to go. Yeah he was a solid football coach but idk...his personality and plays towards the end of the 2011 season made many fans frustrated

2.) First time head coaches are usually cheap which is probably why we got Chow over someone like Dirk

4.) not every student attends the football games. It's not fair to make the athletic passes more expensive.

6.) UH is too poor and stupid to advertise effectively. Shidler teaches people to be good business people outside of the sports world.

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Re: Please STOP the Crying

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The decision making process of UH and its fans regarding the quick change act of Chow for Mac is dumbfounding. Mack won a WAC championship in 2010. Then, they paid him $600,000 to leave at the end of 2011. Both defensive and offensive coordinators that he developed are now very successful at their respective schools. The 6-7 2011 season was the result of quarterback attrition and 100% injury/ineligibility of starting offensive linemen. Mac didn't have to go before 2012. He really should have finished the year.

Whatever, the result is now this legacy of losing year in and year out. It's down right depressing. What's Chow gonna do to fix this thing now?!!! Fire and hire some more offensive and defensive coordinators?!!!!! Not only can we not win on the road, but we don't seem to do much of it at home either.

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Re: Please STOP the Crying

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I gotta agree w Sunday Jam. With Mac, we'd still have the run-n-shoot but probably updated and tweeked by Rolo as O-coordinator.
Why the hiring committee went back in time w Chow is what's dumbfounding. We had sucess with Paul Johnson's and June Jones' offense - but decided to go backwards w Chow?????
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Re: Please STOP the Crying

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Grinch wrote:I gotta agree w Sunday Jam. With Mac, we'd still have the run-n-shoot but probably updated and tweeked by Rolo as O-coordinator.
Why the hiring committee went back in time w Chow is what's dumbfounding. We had sucess with Paul Johnson's and June Jones' offense - but decided to go backwards w Chow?????
You really can't blame the hiring committee for this one. The hiring committee and Jim Donovan supported, and presented Dirk Koetter to the UH President. It was MRC Greenwood and Rockne Freitas who told them no way, and supported Chow, who was somewhere around third or lower on the list.
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Re: Please STOP the Crying

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SundayJam wrote:The decision making process of UH and its fans regarding the quick change act of Chow for Mac is dumbfounding. Mack won a WAC championship in 2010. Then, they paid him $600,000 to leave at the end of 2011. Both defensive and offensive coordinators that he developed are now very successful at their respective schools. The 6-7 2011 season was the result of quarterback attrition and 100% injury/ineligibility of starting offensive linemen. Mac didn't have to go before 2012. He really should have finished the year.
Throughout the last few years, I have alluded to rumors about McMackin's condition in that 2011 (and prior) season many times and how that was the basis for his buyout and somehow people still think that he would be able to somehow continue being a head coach until today. There were very few public things that could be cited as proof of this, including his poor choice of language at the conference media day and his strange penchant for rambling during interviews and call-in shows. However, The most interesting thing to me was that David Graves interview after the final team meeting of 2011 where he basically confirmed a lot of the rumors about the assistant coaches running the team and how Mack obviously cared about the players that he was hard to understand at times. There were two main reactions to these comments: 1) David Graves was wrong to talk about such things in public, and 2) Kevin A Reilly tricked Graves into making these comments. I find it so strange that very few people actually considered what it might have meant if Graves' comments were true. The only potential public explanation for what may have really caused Mack's dismissal was swept under the rug and apparently forgotten very quickly because it didn't fit the simplistic, "win/loss" view of the world that sports fans cling to. Maybe you believe it or maybe you don't. Maybe you think Jim Donovan just wanted to bring in "his guy" or maybe you think that UH was looking for a way to get out of paying Mack his ridiculous salary for another year. I think the rumors going around town were true and I find it very hard to believe that he could have coached another season, let alone 4 more seasons. If the younger assistants really were going to leave after 2011 because of butting heads (and losing) with the older coaches, I think Mack did us (and himself) a great favor by leaving, because 2012 might have been just as bad as Norm's first season if that did happen.

Either way, that's the last I'll mention my opinion on this. I can't indulge this "If Mack were still here" fantasy anymore.

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Re: Please STOP the Crying

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Grinch wrote:I gotta agree w Sunday Jam. With Mac, we'd still have the run-n-shoot but probably updated and tweeked by Rolo as O-coordinator.
Why the hiring committee went back in time w Chow is what's dumbfounding. We had sucess with Paul Johnson's and June Jones' offense - but decided to go backwards w Chow?????
Nope. Mack and Mouse vetoed a lot of what Rolo wanted to do with the offense, preferring to stick with traditional Run & Shoot principles. Rolo is getting to do more of what he wanted to do at UNR than he was able to do here at Hawaii (using a TE/H-Back, etc).

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Re: Please STOP the Crying

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My3Cats wrote:
Grinch wrote:I gotta agree w Sunday Jam. With Mac, we'd still have the run-n-shoot but probably updated and tweeked by Rolo as O-coordinator.
Why the hiring committee went back in time w Chow is what's dumbfounding. We had sucess with Paul Johnson's and June Jones' offense - but decided to go backwards w Chow?????
You really can't blame the hiring committee for this one. The hiring committee and Jim Donovan supported, and presented Dirk Koetter to the UH President. It was MRC Greenwood and Rockne Freitas who told them no way, and supported Chow, who was somewhere around third or lower on the list.
Funny how people keep ignoring that part of the story, huh? About how the committee didn't choose Chow. People don't want the story to be too complicated because they want it to be easy to find someone to blame.

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Re: Please STOP the Crying

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I don't know about others but I'm not ignoring anything. Misinformed, probably. But thanks for enlightening me.
And, I'm not into blaming anyone. Still, someone or a group decided to hire Chow. It's not working out.
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Re: Please STOP the Crying

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Poidog: I remember all of those rumours, but I never took it as seriously as some fans obviously did. I thought David Graves and Kevin Reilly came across as rather immature. I also believe that the handling of Mac's comment about Notre Dame's gay dance was political correctness gone horribly wrong. I always thought Jim Donovan was pressured by his Hawaii Bowl committee to get Hawaii into that bowl every year and believe that was the reason for Mack's quick departure. I can't turn back the clock, but I still think it made more sense to let McMackin finish the final year of his contract. I'd be curious to hear what Rolovich and Aranda would say on the situation. It sure looked to me that McMackin had given them both a BIG break at Hawaii and it was only a matter of time before one of them would be running the show.

Whatever the reasons, the end result is that 4 years of Chow is too much.

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Re: Please STOP the Crying

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viewtopic.php?f=3&t=41223&p=494932&hili ... in#p494932

I had to re-read the comments made by David Graves, and I can't change my original opinion that Graves and Reilly were immature brats. Who was David Graves to our program really? It looks to me like he was led into answering many of the the questions that Kevin A Reilly fed him. It was like they talked about it before hand and Reilly goaded him into airing his grievances. Poor wannabe superstar that never got to start. Wah, wah... :-({|=

This all reads more like hindsight than prognostication. It was printed on our blog by two students therefore it was right. I say, "B.S."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/9707 ... retirement The full write-up on the super-trust-worthy Bleacherreport.
Honolulu, HI—Shortly after University of Hawaii head football coach Greg McMackin announced his sudden retirement on Monday with one year remaining on his five-year contract, we caught up with the Warriors starting quarterback, David Graves, to talk about it.

From how the team learned that McMackin would retire, to his own personal feelings toward his departed coach, to who he thinks should take over as the next head coach of the Hawaii football team, the redshirt sophomore shared it all in this one-on-one interview.
Anyone that would lend credence to this nonsense is laughable. Shame on you.

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Re: Please STOP the Crying

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It's interesting that Poidog didn't add any comments to the responses to the Bleacher Report article on SpH. After the fact, he's all matter of fact about it all. It's a fact 'cause David Graves said so after Mac quit. "Oohh...but Dick Tomey was so much more believable as a leader than Greg McMackin was...I still love him though"...Really?!!!! DAVID GRAVES????!!!!

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Re: Please STOP the Crying

Post by Irse »

SundayJam wrote:
Whatever the reasons, the end result is that 4 years of Chow is too much.
Unfortunately that's the truth.
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Re: Please STOP the Crying

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SundayJam wrote:viewtopic.php?f=3&t=41223&p=494932&hili ... in#p494932

I had to re-read the comments made by David Graves, and I can't change my original opinion that Graves and Reilly were immature brats. Who was David Graves to our program really? It looks to me like he was led into answering many of the the questions that Kevin A Reilly fed him. It was like they talked about it before hand and Reilly goaded him into airing his grievances. Poor wannabe superstar that never got to start. Wah, wah... :-({|=

This all reads more like hindsight than prognostication. It was printed on our blog by two students therefore it was right. I say, "B.S."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/9707 ... retirement The full write-up on the super-trust-worthy Bleacherreport.
Honolulu, HI—Shortly after University of Hawaii head football coach Greg McMackin announced his sudden retirement on Monday with one year remaining on his five-year contract, we caught up with the Warriors starting quarterback, David Graves, to talk about it.

From how the team learned that McMackin would retire, to his own personal feelings toward his departed coach, to who he thinks should take over as the next head coach of the Hawaii football team, the redshirt sophomore shared it all in this one-on-one interview.
Anyone that would lend credence to this nonsense is laughable. Shame on you.
You can say it was BS and that's your opinion, but what if it's true? Are you saying its BS cause it's by two students on a glorified blog site and not by the "credible" local media?

And why you hatin on David Graves?

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Re: Please STOP the Crying

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EITSwarrior wrote:
You can say it was BS and that's your opinion, but what if it's true? Are you saying its BS cause it's by two students on a glorified blog site and not by the "credible" local media?

And why you hatin on David Graves?
Read the Bleacherreport again. It's unbelievably sophomoric, and yet the fans ate it all up. Graves' biggest complaint is that Mac let the assistants do the actual coaching. Man, what I wouldn't give to have Rolovich, Miano, and Aranda in charge again.

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