When a Head Coach knows when it's time to step down

[Nisei]

there is a difference. With Witek and with the progress of the players and the team Chow does believe that his 2015 team will win this year and they are moving in the right direction.

The defense is rebuilding, especially up front, and that unit kept UH in most games last year, not the offense. Without Iosefa in the running game, I think 2015 will be as equally rough as any other Chow season. I think Wittek's talent is overblown. Hell, the best defensive performance of the Chow era came against Wittek.

Every year there is a new shiny transfer QB that Tsai and everyone else raves about, then the kid goes out there on gameday and is a far cry of the QB play UH fans have come to know in love. I'm not falling for that one again.

Hawaii will be giving up choke points, and struggling to score. 2015 could be the disaster finale like the 98' Von Appen season.

But Sean Schroeder did well in his 2nd year.

[SundayJam]

My timeline is still on track. I predicted 3 wins last year. Maybe 4 if Graham started and Iosefa stayed healthy. I've always stated that it takes 3-4 years to completely rebuild a program. Chows recruits (excluding transfers and JCs) are some Jrs but the majority are redshirt sophs, sophs and redshirt freshmen.

I've stated that if Witek starts that we will have a 5-7 win season with a very difficult schedule.

My "you've gotta wait till he gets his guys" is still in play. Maybe one day you will have a better understanding of American football.

You always talk about "for the sake of the players" when you don't know the players don't drop the line. And I'm sure that they don't know you and they wouldn't want you representing or speaking for them.

I notice that the "you've gotta wait till he gets his guys" line is now out of date, leaving the apologists with nothing left to say. The sad thing is that this was obvious to many from the first semester and so many resources have been wasted.

I just hope that for the sake of the players, there are some bright spots for 2015 and some hope for a re-birth for 2016. Its the die-hards, family and friends who will see the 2015 season through.

Interesting...I thought HawkPeter was a strength coach that sent players to Hawaii from Australia. Doh...those players are now at Baylor. Still, I can only imagine that he heard a lot from his guy when he was coached by Chow. It's only speculation, of course. From his discourse over the years, I'd say he has a genuine interest in the team and players. I'd also say that he knows quite abit about American football.

I've watched a lot of American football over the years. I see nothing of merit in Chow's experiment at Hawaii. This will be Norm Chow's last season as a coach and the last of many recent failures. If we win at all, it will be because we returned to the spread. I only hope the Hawaii Bowl will be around for the next coach.

[TheDuke]

Give me a break. He is a strength coach. More people on this site know a lot more about American football them he does. And how much interaction has he had with current players? How many practices has he seen? How many real games has he seen? Has he talked to any of the coaches? Players? There are people on this board with 20-40 years of American football experience and have actually played the game. Does he know more about the game then current UH coaches?

[TheDuke]

From what I've read the new OC averaged 300+ yards a game passing but also averaged 200 yards rushing a game.

Chow has the deck stacked against him. Not only because of the obvious but because I hear the new coaches want to run the spread offensively and run 3 man front defensively. Although I am extremely excited about the transition to a high passing game, this will be Chow's nail in the coffin. Very risky, but Chow has nothing to lose. After hearing of his "micro" management style I just can't picture anyone running his offense.

[SundayJam]

Give me a break. He is a strength coach. More people on this site know a lot more about American football them he does. And how much interaction has he had with current players? How many practices has he seen? How many real games has he seen? Has he talked to any of the coaches? Players? There are people on this board with 20-40 years of American football experience and have actually played the game. Does he know more about the game then current UH coaches?

For what it's worth...I value both of your opinions...a lot. I wouldn't down play either of your opinions. I'm sorry to say: I agree with Mr. Hawk's assessment of our predicament.

[madeinhawaii]

From what I've read the new OC averaged 300+ yards a game passing but also averaged 200 yards rushing a game.

Chow has the deck stacked against him. Not only because of the obvious but because I hear the new coaches want to run the spread offensively and run 3 man front defensively. Although I am extremely excited about the transition to a high passing game, this will be Chow's nail in the coffin. Very risky, but Chow has nothing to lose. After hearing of his "micro" management style I just can't picture anyone running his offense.

Assuming Chow will let the new OC run the offense and draw up the plays, we might have a chance to win more. But the last OC we had got let go before he had a chance to start. So we shall see.

[J-Rod]

2015 Football Schedule

Colorado
@Ohio State
UC-Davis
@Wisconsin
UL-Monroe
Air Force
Fresno State
San Diego State
San Jose State
@Boise State
@Nevada
@New Mexico
@UNLV

Hawaii has a chance to reach TheDuke's 5-7 win expectation, just based on having 7 home games alone. I would note though that Norm's record in games where the spread is less than 5 going either way (perceived toss-ups) is absolutely horrendous. 50-50 games haven't been 50-50 during his time at Manoa. More like 5-95.

@Ohio State, @Wisconsin, and @Boise State go into "good chance Hawaii gets blown to bits" category. 30+ point losses, maybe worse.

@Nevada, @New Mexico, and @UNLV are likely losses simply because UH has undeniably been horrible on the road since forever ago. We're at 6 likely losses already.

There is no such thing as a "gimme" with Norm Chow as head coach, but UC-Davis, San Jose State, and UL-Monroe might be the closest thing to it. Not predicting blowouts, but UH should win those games.

The remaining games are Colorado, Air Force, Fresno State, and San Diego State. The Falcons and Aztecs should be favorites to win, and will win with more disciplined play than UH. Colorado is still in their rebuilding phase, UH get chance to win. Fresno State is losing players left and right this off-season. Good players. I can't tell if the sailors are jumping ship before it sinks, or if DeRuyter is cleaning house. Either way, Fresno may struggle in 2015.

Gun to my head...Hawaii wins 2/3 vs. UC-Davis, San Jose State, and UL-Monroe, and 1/2 of Colorado and Fresno State. UNLV gives the best chance for a road win, but something fishy at the end of the game occurs again. Hawaii goes 3-10, Chow steps aside and a new coaching search begins. JMO of course.

[wyokie]

3-10 sounds just about right, J-Rod.

Still can't believe we frinkin lost to Hawaii last year. It was as embarrassing as losing to Cal Poly at home in 2012. That was beyond pathetic.

If Hawaii really puts it's nose to the grindstone, I could see UH getting 5, maybe 6, wins....Colorado, Cal-Davis, UL-Monroe, SJSU (The MW needs to drop their basketball program asap), UNM, and either UNLV or Nevada.

[UnBiasFan]

3-10 sounds just about right, J-Rod.

Still can't believe we frinkin lost to Hawaii last year. It was as embarrassing as losing to Cal Poly at home in 2012. That was beyond pathetic.

If Hawaii really puts it's nose to the grindstone, I could see UH getting 5, maybe 6, wins....Colorado, Cal-Davis, UL-Monroe, SJSU (The MW needs to drop their basketball program asap), UNM, and either UNLV or Nevada.

I suspect that JJ is helping here behind the scenes. My guess is that JJ will assist Chow in going out as a winner. Then Chow will retire and JJ will take over.

(Note: A dream scenario would be to just promote Chow to AD right now and have JJ take over.)

[Hawkpeter]

My timeline is still on track. I predicted 3 wins last year. Maybe 4 if Graham started and Iosefa stayed healthy. I've always stated that it takes 3-4 years to completely rebuild a program. Chows recruits (excluding transfers and JCs) are some Jrs but the majority are redshirt sophs, sophs and redshirt freshmen.

I've stated that if Witek starts that we will have a 5-7 win season with a very difficult schedule.

My "you've gotta wait till he gets his guys" is still in play. Maybe one day you will have a better understanding of American football.

You always talk about "for the sake of the players" when you don't know the players don't drop the line. And I'm sure that they don't know you and they wouldn't want you representing or speaking for them.



Give me a break. He is a strength coach. More people on this site know a lot more about American football them he does. And how much interaction has he had with current players? How many practices has he seen? How many real games has he seen? Has he talked to any of the coaches? Players? There are people on this board with 20-40 years of American football experience and have actually played the game. Does he know more about the game then current UH coaches?

You always know when you're on the right track when they start with the ad hominem argument

The salient point regarding my rebuking the 'you've gotta wait till he gets his guys' maxim is that even if you're right Mr Duke, and it was always going to take 2012, 13', 14', 15', 16' to 'get his guys' then would that be any sort of good and useful plan that UH Athletics could withstand? The results speak for themselves, if you're that much of a football masochist then that's your business, but you should acknowledge the consequences of that to all stakeholders as I have.

I agree that the 2015 schedule is very difficult and I would say around 4 wins to match my 2014 prediction would be about right.

If you'd like to talk X's and O's I'd be happy to. I'd direct you to the articles that I write on football but they're behind a paywall. Do you want to discuss the merits of locking the RB into a formation? or maybe how to package split zone with multiple passing options. Pattern reading from quarters coverage? Admittedly, I haven't been to a UH practice for some time, I was too busy last year taking in practices at schools in the Big 12, SEC, and AAC last year.

If I care about player welfare that's my business, and it is sincere, I put my time and money where my mouth is. As far as knowing as much as UH coaches, my question is, 'Which coaches'? The 12 that have already moved on or the ones now? We need some clarification on this? But have you had to sit down with player parents and reason with them and explain the systematic failure of this program? 'drop the line'; try counseling a player on how he can talk to his team mate about standing up for his rights with a coach and the compliance staff. Or listen to him being worried about the mental state of a team mate.

Regardless of all that, you don't need to be an engineer to know that this bridge has collapsed and this HC should have stepped down long ago. Get a clue. Fool.

[Niele]

My timeline is still on track. I predicted 3 wins last year. Maybe 4 if Graham started and Iosefa stayed healthy. I've always stated that it takes 3-4 years to completely rebuild a program. Chows recruits (excluding transfers and JCs) are some Jrs but the majority are redshirt sophs, sophs and redshirt freshmen.

I've stated that if Witek starts that we will have a 5-7 win season with a very difficult schedule.

My "you've gotta wait till he gets his guys" is still in play. Maybe one day you will have a better understanding of American football.

You always talk about "for the sake of the players" when you don't know the players don't drop the line. And I'm sure that they don't know you and they wouldn't want you representing or speaking for them.



Give me a break. He is a strength coach. More people on this site know a lot more about American football them he does. And how much interaction has he had with current players? How many practices has he seen? How many real games has he seen? Has he talked to any of the coaches? Players? There are people on this board with 20-40 years of American football experience and have actually played the game. Does he know more about the game then current UH coaches?

You always know when you're on the right track when they start with the ad hominem argument

The salient point regarding my rebuking the 'you've gotta wait till he gets his guys' maxim is that even if you're right Mr Duke, and it was always going to take 2012, 13', 14', 15', 16' to 'get his guys' then would that be any sort of good and useful plan that UH Athletics could withstand? The results speak for themselves, if you're that much of a football masochist then that's your business, but you should acknowledge the consequences of that to all stakeholders as I have.

I agree that the 2015 schedule is very difficult and I would say around 4 wins to match my 2014 prediction would be about right.

If you'd like to talk X's and O's I'd be happy to. I'd direct you to the articles that I write on football but they're behind a paywall. Do you want to discuss the merits of locking the RB into a formation? or maybe how to package split zone with multiple passing options. Pattern reading from quarters coverage? Admittedly, I haven't been to a UH practice for some time, I was too busy last year taking in practices at schools in the Big 12, SEC, and AAC last year.

If I care about player welfare that's my business, and it is sincere, I put my time and money where my mouth is. As far as knowing as much as UH coaches, my question is, 'Which coaches'? The 12 that have already moved on or the ones now? We need some clarification on this? But have you had to sit down with player parents and reason with them and explain the systematic failure of this program? 'drop the line'; try counseling a player on how he can talk to his team mate about standing up for his rights with a coach and the compliance staff. Or listen to him being worried about the mental state of a team mate.

Regardless of all that, you don't need to be an engineer to know that this bridge has collapsed and this HC should have stepped down long ago. Get a clue. Fool.

Amen. Thank you for putting your thoughts about Chow, he should've been gone last year, his continued presence damages
the football program.

[thatmakakiloguy]

"We are 2 years away....from being 2 years away"

[poidog]

"We just gotta work harder..."

-Every Norm Chow post-game interview I can remember

[poidog]

I've always stated that it takes 3-4 years to completely rebuild a program. Chows recruits (excluding transfers and JCs) are some Jrs but the majority are redshirt sophs, sophs and redshirt freshmen.

How can you look at anything that happened over the last 3 seasons and say with a straight face that any of it was part of a "plan"? Any plan that includes no wins against winning teams and having your punter be your best player in Year Three is a terrible plan. Any plan that includes taking a 6-win team and turning it into a 2-win team is not the right plan. Any plan that includes an exodus of nearly the entire coaching staff in the "payoff" year is not really a plan - It's just a chain of events.

I've stated that if Witek starts that we will have a 5-7 win season with a very difficult schedule.

What kind of plan involves signing a transfer with one year of eligibility left as your "savior" because in 4 years of recruiting, you aren't able to build the right QB in-house?

I get what you are saying about how change takes time, but it's hard to look back at anything that happened in the last three seasons and look at any of it as something that was part of some greater plan. It all looks more like a series of decisions that just didn't work out (don't even get me started on things like "doing the haka in the locker room" and the whole "Imua" on the jerseys thing...). As much as I don't like Chow, I thought they should have won 5-6 games with what they had. They didn't win that many games, but they were in a whole lot of games but were not able to "get over the hump". The talent was there, but the game plan/strategy/preparation was not. I don't think Norm Chow is the right person to put an entire team in position to be successful and win games. If they have any success this season it will be because the new hires exceed expectations, and not because of the culmination of some kind of 4-year plan. Any success this year will be because Norm finally had the good sense to stop being part of the problem. Maybe it took him 3-4 years to come to that conclusion, but it shouldn't have.

[Makana]

2015 Football Schedule

Colorado +7
@Ohio State +38
UC-Davis -2
@Wisconsin +21
UL-Monroe -3
Air Force +7
Fresno State +7
San Diego State +4
San Jose State -3
@Boise State +14
@Nevada +8
@New Mexico -7
@UNLV -3

2015 odds