Norm Chow Fired?

[nostra_808]

i hope one of these two scenerios to happen:

1. Destroy Fresno - should help win back the fan support for the next season. Recruits will see that we aren't a sinking ship and maybe commit and keep the momentum going. There also could be a reward game if everything works out........could be like our bowl game

2. Get a new coach quickly - we are ending the season early so the new coaches can reevaluate recruits/commits before the year is up and maybe go and get some that fits their systems.

[travo66]

Absolutely NO!!!... What this program needs is a good showing by the team at Fresno ~ for even if they lose, a good solid 4 Qtrs by the team would be enough to prove to the underclassmen that all the hard work and effort they made for the team was worth it. Something to build on for next year. FACE FACTS ~ as Coach Chow has stated, this team isn't talented enough (yet... IMHO) to play and make mistakes and still win games. They are truly very much in middle of the pack talent-wise in the MWC-West. The schedule this year was brutal, and niggling injuries (and simple mistakes) really hurt them at critical moments in games.

What makes me angry is the thinking by too many here that the s**t doesn't smell in Hawaii... and the grass will be greener for another Coach who could replace Coach Chow. It won't. U.H. can't afford the (Coaching) talent that the larger more well-heeled programs (PAC12, SEC, etc) take for granted. U.H. was damn LUCKY to get Coach Chow to "come home" for the price they paid. He's known and for the most part respected nationally; which does help the program in the long run. We should be HAPPY considering the circumstances ~ that the one thing this team has shown is "MOXY"... and that is something we should give the coaching staff some credit for. Will the Coach Chow recruits prove to be program-changers???... take it up higher in the conference??? I don't know... But I do know that there's an even bigger gamble to be had if there is a coaching change after this season. We're not going to 'get' a top tier coach for the amount U.H. is wanting or capable of paying.

Wow, hitting the Kool-Aide early and often, huh? No, this team might not be talented enough to win some games, but how many games have we been in where the players won the game only for Chow to lose it for them. Run-Run-Run-Punt or Run-Run-Pass-Punt, that's what he does! The only reason we are "middle of the pack" is because there are teams s**tier than us! Would you call SJSU and UNLV quality wins? Quality wins maybe because they are our ONLY wins! We were seriously lucky last year Army sucked so bad no matter how bad the coaching was, we won!

The s**t does smell here and its coming from NC!!! We "couldn't afford" June Jones, but we got him any way. Now, I'm not saying bring back JJ, but what did he do after 1 year? Where did he get us? So it IS possible for a new coach to come in and fix things right away! UH was NOT lucky to get Chow...Chow is lucky we let him get a HC stint before he retired! Look at his track record...sure, he was great at USC, but after that, what? My 2 year-old nephew could have been OC at USC and still do as well as Chow did, his team was STACKED! Sure, there's a gamble with changing coaches, but I'd rather take that gamble than watch next season with NC at the helm! We don't NEED a top tier coach, we just need one better than Chow, which isn't that difficult to find, in my humble opinion.

[Niele]

[quote="travo66]

I hope we get thrashed

Even if it leads to NC getting fired, you wouldn't want this?

Absolutely NO!!!... What this program needs is a good showing by the team at Fresno ~ for even if they lose, a good solid 4 Qtrs by the team would be enough to prove to the underclassmen that all the hard work and effort they made for the team was worth it. Something to build on for next year. FACE FACTS ~ as Coach Chow has stated, this team isn't talented enough (yet... IMHO) to play and make mistakes and still win games. They are truly very much in middle of the pack talent-wise in the MWC-West. The schedule this year was brutal, and niggling injuries (and simple mistakes) really hurt them at critical moments in games.

What makes me angry is the thinking by too many here that the s**t doesn't smell in Hawaii... and the grass will be greener for another Coach who could replace Coach Chow. It won't. U.H. can't afford the (Coaching) talent that the larger more well-heeled programs (PAC12, SEC, etc) take for granted. U.H. was damn LUCKY to get Coach Chow to "come home" for the price they paid. He's known and for the most part respected nationally; which does help the program in the long run. We should be HAPPY considering the circumstances ~ that the one thing this team has shown is "MOXY"... and that is something we should give the coaching staff some credit for. Will the Coach Chow recruits prove to be program-changers???... take it up higher in the conference??? I don't know... But I do know that there's an even bigger gamble to be had if there is a coaching change after this season. We're not going to 'get' a top tier coach for the amount U.H. is wanting or capable of paying.[/quote]
------------------------------------------------------------------
If you paid attention to the games, you'd see that NC, has no clue.

[browndog]

I would very much be happiest if the Warriors win this Saturday vs. Fresno State, and for Norm Chow to gracefully step down for family reasons. Ben Jay can work on a financial settlement with him, much as when Greg McMackin "retired", for less than the contracted amount, just because he cares about the players and the program.

never thought of it but that is actually a pretty good idea… follow in mcmackins footsteps

[Palolo_2LA]

This team is learning to win. With Chow at the helm in 2015 we should have a winning season. If we switch coaching now we will have 2-3 more losing seasons and UH football might not survive. Go Warriors! I will be there this Saturday.

Get real...SJSU lost that game...nothing on the offense has changed or improved. Plus if beating 4 $hitty teams makes ppl happy, let's move to D2.

[MadCat88]

[quote="travo66]

I hope we get thrashed

Even if it leads to NC getting fired, you wouldn't want this?

Absolutely NO!!!... What this program needs is a good showing by the team at Fresno ~ for even if they lose, a good solid 4 Qtrs by the team would be enough to prove to the underclassmen that all the hard work and effort they made for the team was worth it. Something to build on for next year. FACE FACTS ~ as Coach Chow has stated, this team isn't talented enough (yet... IMHO) to play and make mistakes and still win games. They are truly very much in middle of the pack talent-wise in the MWC-West. The schedule this year was brutal, and niggling injuries (and simple mistakes) really hurt them at critical moments in games.

What makes me angry is the thinking by too many here that the s**t doesn't smell in Hawaii... and the grass will be greener for another Coach who could replace Coach Chow. It won't. U.H. can't afford the (Coaching) talent that the larger more well-heeled programs (PAC12, SEC, etc) take for granted. U.H. was damn LUCKY to get Coach Chow to "come home" for the price they paid. He's known and for the most part respected nationally; which does help the program in the long run. We should be HAPPY considering the circumstances ~ that the one thing this team has shown is "MOXY"... and that is something we should give the coaching staff some credit for. Will the Coach Chow recruits prove to be program-changers???... take it up higher in the conference??? I don't know... But I do know that there's an even bigger gamble to be had if there is a coaching change after this season. We're not going to 'get' a top tier coach for the amount U.H. is wanting or capable of paying.

------------------------------------------------------------------
If you paid attention to the games, you'd see that NC, has no clue.[/quote]
Look... yes I have paid attention. And yeah... I'm not 100% happy with the play calling. But not seeing or knowing exactly what the circumstances were behind the play calls made at those moments in time is one thing ~ more importantly for us fans in the stands: have they made adjustments as the season progressed??? The obvious answer is yes ~ they have adjusted given the circumstances from week to week. THAT'S NOT THE POINT here... the point is this program is cash strapped, and in a very dire situation. I personally would of wanted to KEEP Coach Mack and his crew ~ to maintain the forward momentum for the program. I say the same for keeping Coach Wagner back in the day. Dynastic programs have a common thread... and it's having a known quantity in the Coaching staff for years if not decades on end, to develop the players (and give recruits a reason to come to play in the first place). And again... this program is lucky to have a 'brand-name' Coach, who can get the interest of top tier players from across the country. Turmoil in the Coaching situation DOES NOT build a good solid program. Bringing Coach Clune in, was a good move. I'd like to see Coach Chow find a hum-dinger coach to be O.C. though. U.H. will probably always have trouble getting the type of talent needed to run a Pro-Set type of offense ~ he should allow himself to be "a little more creative" in that dept..

[travo66]

Look... yes I have paid attention. And yeah... I'm not 100% happy with the play calling. But not seeing or knowing exactly what the circumstances were behind the play calls made at those moments in time is one thing ~ more importantly for us fans in the stands: have they made adjustments as the season progressed??? The obvious answer is yes ~ they have adjusted given the circumstances from week to week. THAT'S NOT THE POINT here... the point is this program is cash strapped, and in a very dire situation. I personally would of wanted to KEEP Coach Mack and his crew ~ to maintain the forward momentum for the program. I say the same for keeping Coach Wagner back in the day. Dynastic programs have a common thread... and it's having a known quantity in the Coaching staff for years if not decades on end, to develop the players (and give recruits a reason to come to play in the first place). And again... this program is lucky to have a 'brand-name' Coach, who can get the interest of top tier players from across the country. Turmoil in the Coaching situation DOES NOT build a good solid program. Bringing Coach Clune in, was a good move. I'd like to see Coach Chow find a hum-dinger coach to be O.C. though. U.H. will probably always have trouble getting the type of talent needed to run a Pro-Set type of offense ~ he should allow himself to be "a little more creative" in that dept..

Not knowing the circumstances behind Run-Run-Run-Punt? Its pure stubbornness and lack of ability. I could guess the upcoming play 80% of the time, and I am no strategist when it comes to football (I hail mary every play in Madden), but I know what NC is doing is NOT working. Sure it worked against SJSU and UNLV, but again, the quality of opponents there is low.

And yes, as you mentioned, we are strapped for cash. Take into account how many season ticket holders will opt-out and how few new ones we'll get and we'll be worse off next year BECAUSE of NC! I wanted Mack gone only because it seemed like his mental health and ability to control the team was fading...the product he put out was great, I thought and can't believe how far we've fallen; going from "Fire Mack" after he went 6-7 and won the WAC and took us to a couple of bowl games to "Give NC another year" when he is what 8-24(?) and rushing the field after a last second victory against UNLV, a 10 point underdog against US (anyone considered an underdog against us at this point in time has to be bad)!

And if you think you're gonna see NC get an O.C. keep dreaming. He's too old and stubborn to let anyone else have control of his Run-Run-Run-Punt scheme. He's gonna have the team work on it and get better at those 2 plays; no, I didn't count wrong, because running it up the middle 3 times in a row counts as 1 play and punting counts as 1.

[MadCat88]

Key important things to remember: Coach J.J. brought the R&S ~ had the right players early on to run it (VonAppen's recruits) early on. One dimensional, but if ran correctly (which took a lot of valuable time off-season to develop ~ a major flaw with running that type of offense, given the limitations of Div1 NCAA football), was next to impossible to stop for most if not all the mid-major teams U.H. would play. Against better (physically bigger, faster, more talented teams) it at least gave the team some leverage. Score fast, score often... on defense, it was bend don't break. Made for very exciting games. Same overall strategy of using a one-dimensional offense is used by teams like the service academies, which by their inherent nature just can't get the type of players to run a more balanced pro-set type of offense. Against U.H., the better teams could pin their ears back ~ and come at them full bore, knowing there wasn't much of a run threat (see Sugar Bowl fiasco); the program had hit a brick wall. People forgot Coach Wags (Paul Johnson) ran an early version of the triple option run ~ and U.H. ruled the ground game statistically for many years (but didn't throw the ball all that much)... also fun to watch, but made for very low scoring games (U.H.'s defense was top ranked year after year then too). Going to a more balanced offense at U.H. was never quite successfully done for any length of time. I personally like the idea of the Pistol offense developed by Coach Ault, for mid-major teams like U.H.. Makes best use of the type of players Hawaii can recruit locally; and is a much more balanced offense than the pure R&S or triple option.

Is Coach Chow too "set in his way" to make changes to "his offensive schemes"???... Don't know. I don't know him personally to say. Can U.H. get the "right type" of talent in it's recruiting to run his offense effectively enough to win games???... that too I don't know. That was a BIG question mark when he originally came into the program. I'm going to make an assumption that Coach Chow's ego really isn't all that big ~ he's always come across to me as a pretty humble kind of person. He can read tea-leaves (game statistics) just as well as anybody, if not more so. I'm quite sure he's aware of "his programs" limitations, and where the team is falling short and why. Now what is he going to do about it??? If he doesn't succeed in putting this team up on par with the Colorado St.'s and Boise's of the MWC by next year ~ the fickle fans of U.H. football will continue the exodus, and the program will bleed even more money. Then it's all PAU!!! I know a lot of you believe that by bringing in a fresh new Coaching Staff (and don't fool yourself... if a new head coach comes in... he'll bring in his people ~ expect everyone else to be shown the door) could turn the program around (ala Coach J.J.). It's a huge gamble, and might actually work... but I'm not overly optimistic. There's not a lot of "magic" to this business... it all comes down to good recruiting, player development, and team building... and a whole lot of luck.

[travo66]

Key important things to remember: Coach J.J. brought the R&S ~ had the right players early on to run it (VonAppen's recruits) early on. One dimensional, but if ran correctly (which took a lot of valuable time off-season to develop ~ a major flaw with running that type of offense, given the limitations of Div1 NCAA football), was next to impossible to stop for most if not all the mid-major teams U.H. would play. Against better (physically bigger, faster, more talented teams) it at least gave the team some leverage. Score fast, score often... on defense, it was bend don't break. Made for very exciting games. Same overall strategy of using a one-dimensional offense is used by teams like the service academies, which by their inherent nature just can't get the type of players to run a more balanced pro-set type of offense. Against U.H., the better teams could pin their ears back ~ and come at them full bore, knowing there wasn't much of a run threat (see Sugar Bowl fiasco); the program had hit a brick wall. People forgot Coach Wags (Paul Johnson) ran an early version of the triple option run ~ and U.H. ruled the ground game statistically for many years (but didn't throw the ball all that much)... also fun to watch, but made for very low scoring games (U.H.'s defense was top ranked year after year then too). Going to a more balanced offense at U.H. was never quite successfully done for any length of time. I personally like the idea of the Pistol offense developed by Coach Ault, for mid-major teams like U.H.. Makes best use of the type of players Hawaii can recruit locally; and is a much more balanced offense than the pure R&S or triple option.

Is Coach Chow too "set in his way" to make changes to "his offensive schemes"???... Don't know. I don't know him personally to say. Can U.H. get the "right type" of talent in it's recruiting to run his offense effectively enough to win games???... that too I don't know. That was a BIG question mark when he originally came into the program. I'm going to make an assumption that Coach Chow's ego really isn't all that big ~ he's always come across to me as a pretty humble kind of person. He can read tea-leaves (game statistics) just as well as anybody, if not more so. I'm quite sure he's aware of "his programs" limitations, and where the team is falling short and why. Now what is he going to do about it??? If he doesn't succeed in putting this team up on par with the Colorado St.'s and Boise's of the MWC by next year ~ the fickle fans of U.H. football will continue the exodus, and the program will bleed even more money. Then it's all PAU!!! I know a lot of you believe that by bringing in a fresh new Coaching Staff (and don't fool yourself... if a new head coach comes in... he'll bring in his people ~ expect everyone else to be shown the door) could turn the program around (ala Coach J.J.). It's a huge gamble, and might actually work... but I'm not overly optimistic. There's not a lot of "magic" to this business... it all comes down to good recruiting, player development, and team building... and a whole lot of luck.

Yes, true, they were gimmick offenses, but they brought results, which is one of the most important thing for fans. Sure better teams, such as Georgia, would kill us, but let's try playing Georgia now (or the Georgia team that beat us) and see which result would be better. I'd go with JJ's Sugar Bowl team hands down; no way this offense scores even once with Georgia's 4th string and water boy in!

How do you not know? He's had 3 seasons of the SAME THING, do you think he will magically change his ways next year? No way! And he's had years to recruit, and I see little to no improvement in the team. Sure, we won more games this year, but again, its the level of competition. I'm sure he's a humble and nice guy...but he's not fit to be our HC! And what you said is exactly why I feel we need a coaching change, if this continues next year, the exodus will continue and there will be nothing left! Why give that a chance of happening when hiring a new coach will spark new interest and new season ticket sales? That is almost guaranteed! Of course how the team actually does is a huge gamble, but again, I'd rather gamble on the unknown than continue losing with the known.