Has the Run N Shoot been figured out?

[warriorfan808]

This is something I've been hearing on the BC show lately. Did JJ's initial success come from other schools inability to defend against the Run N Shoot? Now that they've had a few years to prepare for the Run N Shoot, have they figured it out? Also, Fresno State and Boise State have exposed weakness in our offense and defense. Personally, I think that Hawaii's offense was first figured out during the UNLV game. From there, other coaches added in other schemes to slow down and practially shut down the RNS. Do you all think it's about time that UH changes things around a bit?

BC and JJ's argue that schools haven't figured out the run n shoot and that it's only Hawaii's lack of a burner to spread out their secondary. They mention Lelie and Cockheran and how they were able to penatrate and break away for the long catch. Sure this is true, but wouldn't that be true with any passing offense or offense for that matter?

Isn't the Run N Shoot suppose to be an equilizer much like the triple option is used by Rice and Navy? We're suppose to use our mediocre talent and compete with the big boys. If it's no longer working as an equilizer, wouldn't that mean that it's been figured out?

IMO, we'll see some more fine tuning of the run n shoot in the offseason. I've already seen our offensive line in the three point stance on a few plays, a little play action and a few more running plays.

JJ's and company are going to have to try to find the perfect balance between running plays and passing plays. If we attempt too many passes, it could hurt us in the long run and if we run too many running plays, our passing offense wont be able to get into a rhythm. Damn, this is reminding me of Mircoeconomics, you all remember finding the equilibrium point to know how many employees to hire.

[ktownwarrior]

Most everybody seems to be saying the same thing: if your offense has more talent than the opposing teams' defenses, then the offense works. If not, it doesn't. The case could be that Hawaii's receivers and backs are just not as good as the opposition they're facing.

Look, UH got lucky getting receivers like Lelie and Cocheran who could stretch the field by finding them out of the bargain bin, so to speak. Komine's a good receiver, but he doesn't seem that fast. Rivers has talent, no doubt, but it seems like he doesn't quite get it yet. Owens is awesome, obviously, but he's always the focal point of every defense.

I do know this, when Hawaii's been able to run the football this season, they've been unstoppable on offense. Seems like everyone's rushing three and dropping eight, virtually double-covering everyone going out for a reception, and since Hawaii's offense doesn't use tight ends, that makes throwing difficult if a running game doesn't exist.

[The808Chef]

ktown hit it on the spot. If we throw 90% of the time, we get stopped because they can drop 7 or 8. If we run 70-80% of the time, we get stopped because they load the box. If we throw 60% and run 40%, we win. Plain and simple. We need to stop being predictable. We need to use the "run" more in the run-n-shoot. Mix it up. Mix the defense up.

[warriorfan808]

I was thinking the same thing. It's obvious that our unbalanced attack is hurting our main focus which is the passing game. If we pass less, we'll actually throw for more yards. Of course I wouldn't want our offense to run the ball too much. Mixing up our running plays with short shovel passes and short passes to our slot backs will work wonders in opening up the long ball.

If the extra running plays are added, it might even help us on defense. If you think about it, the goal of the opposing defense is to keep the UH offense off the field as long as possible. Our goal should be to keep our defense off the field. If that means running the clock more by making running plays, then so be it. We gotta keep their offense cold and our defense fresh for our guys to have a chance. If we controled the offense some more, even if we didn't score, at least Fresno wouldn't have been on the field long enough to score 70.

[Ldub20]

June Jone's SERIOUSLY needs to recruit a couple of 6'2"-6-'5" big and tall recievers or next year things will only be the same. He should've been doing that a long time ago when Hawaii lost Lelie. Things have not been the same since Lelie left. If you can't get blue-chippers, go to the JC ranks and get some players. This offense should be every offensive player's dream especially the Qb anWr. Ldub sees teams like Memphis and San Diego St. with all these big and tall recievers that weren't "blue-chippers" but still very effective. Hawaii could definitely use them. The only way that's going to happen is if you got ot the mainland b/c there's nothing at the skill positions locally. Locally you can get the big O&D linemen. The 'smurfs' at the slots will be fine. It's the WR core that needs upgrading. Hawaii just don't have any playmaker's since Lelie left. There's no go-to guy who's going to make that big play. Teams are not even respecting Hawaii's deep passing game. How many deep bombs have been completed? Next, year if we get the WR who can stretch the field Hawaii is back in business. The defense next year on the otherhand will be UGLY! The D-line was already thin and a weak spot. Next year we'll only get worst if recruiting is bad!

[BigWave96744]

In Recent Recruiting wars we lost:
Last year:
Todd Watkins (BYU) 6-3, 4.4 speed
Cleanard Saintail (Mid Tenn) 6-3

Maybe we can lure BJ Vickers 6-3, who we tried to recruit in 2003 but went to Louisville. This year he went to a JC and is looking for a new Div I team next season..

The only smurf who successfully play WR was Justin Colbert who used his break away speed to get open..

[rodfather]

I still think this offense still works. I've read Al Black's book Coaching Run and shoot football which show cases Mouse Davis' version of the offense about 20 years ago. The author acknowledges Davis and coach Jones for their help. From what I remember, it theoretically can defeat any coverage they throw at it since the routes adjust against various zones and press coverages. I know Coach Jones' version is more complicated than the one presented in the book. I am wondering if the WRs are running the wrong routes since defenses show one thing then actually run a different coverage. But for the rest I do agree with what everyone has to say.

I do agree that we need to have more running. It does not necessarily include putting in tight ends and going smash mouth but running more draws, counters and traps. The fullback dive under center with Wes works great on short yardage. I was just wondering if we ever have a mobile QB in the future we can use some of Paul Johnson's old triple option spread as a trick play. Boy now that I think about it, the old spread and the run and shoot would make a deadly offensive combo if we have the right personnel.

As for the passing game, I agree that we need those tall 6 foot plus speed burners. I have always thought of this offense as a deep threat first offense. I know Coach Jones put some stuff from Bill Walsh WCO in his offense and I can see this as logical since we have no burners this year. But when UH has them, go deep. Maybe look at Spurrier stuff, Purdue/Wash St. Spread stuff for inspiration for new plays to throw people off. Texas Tech is a good source to look for new plays since they run the 4 wide stuff (although their offense is based originally on Norm Chow's old BYU offense).

[ubercow]

so the offense is figured out.. on the road?

as bad as the season's been going, and as cynical as I usually am, Hawaii offense is still averaging 40 points per game at home.

[warriorfan808]

so the offense is figured out.. on the road?

as bad as the season's been going, and as cynical as I usually am, Hawaii offense is still averaging 40 points per game at home.

It's working at home, but who are we playing at home? The toughest schools on the schedule Fresno State, Boise State and UTEP were all on the road.

We'll see how it works against Northwestern and Michigan State. One of our main benefits would be their lack of experience defending the RnS. For now, I guess we can say that Fresno State, Boise and UTEP figured it out. JJ's will have a chance proving this wrong next season @home.