UH basketball expectations

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Irse
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UH basketball expectations

Post by Irse »

I know we're not a basketball power or anything like that but our coach would get a raise if UH makes the NCAA tourney. Other schools can their coaches if they make the big dance but don't advance far enough like Minnesota and UCLA. Man, the pressure of coaching at a big name school.
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Re: UH basketball expectations

Post by stutterinstan »

We need to be the top school in the Big West, otherwise it's a loss. If we don't do well next year, it's time for Ben Jay to find HIS guy. Record of team during Gib Arnold's coaching tenure from 1st year to this year: 19-13, 16-16, 17-15. HIs first season, he did well with great leadership in Amis & Zane. After that, it's been mediocre. I love Gib but the team didn't do well in a weaker conference this year. Vander thought he could just come in and dominate the conference, but it wasn't the case. They would beat Long Beach State and almost beat Illinois, but lose badly to UC-Davis and others. Super up and down. The high turnover in players has a lot to do with it, with at least 5 or more new players coming in each year. That shouldn't be a problem next year, if everyone stays and we only add the two fall commits and others in summer. Maybe the chemistry will be better next year, and the speed of the team will pick up with Shamburger. But the jury is out. I want this team to do well, and I believe in the talent we have and the recruits that will be coming in. Now, it's time to coach them up. I am just happy we are out of the cellar years of Nash, who looked out of place. But it's time to make the next step, and continue progress. Not stay stagnant, and be a .500 team in one of the weakest conferences in the nation. We need to get back to the days of Carter & Alika Smith and Savovic & English. I hope it's sooner rather than later. We are due the chance to be the next Florida-Gulf Coast and rock the tournament. I hope they use the La Salles, Harvards, and FGCUs of the tournament as motivation that they can do the same as well.

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Re: UH basketball expectations

Post by gopunahou »

I would give Gib one more year. A turnaround ain't out of the question. Look at Coach K, he went 38-47 his 1st 3 yrs at Duke (with two losing seasons). The rest is history.
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Re: UH basketball expectations

Post by seasider »

gopunahou wrote:I would give Gib one more year. A turnaround ain't out of the question. Look at Coach K, he went 38-47 his 1st 3 yrs at Duke (with two losing seasons). The rest is history.
Comparing Duke, from the ACC and a Mid-Major like Hawaii, is like comparing oranges and apples.

1) Duke's recruiting ground is a bus ride away versus Hawaii's 2,500 mile plane ride to the west coast.
2) The State of North Carolina and surrounding states are blessed with tons of D1 talent versus Hawaii (no pun intended to Hawaii HS basketball athletes) high schools' BB athletes rarely receive any D1 scholarships. Only high school basketball player from Hawaii to make it to the NBA is Hilo's Red Rocha.

Bottom line, coach Gib, is doing a creditable job recruiting high school talent. And, definitely, win or lose, they are "mo fun" to watch than Nash's 3 years and Riley's last five years.

There's a lot of ifs in winning basketball games...Hawaii's biggest If was Joaquim's acl injury that set him back big time. With a healthy Joaquim from the get go, guaran Hawaii would've could've should've won 20 and possibly the BWC BB title and a birth to the NCAA.

IMHO coach Gib's contract should be extended for another 3 years.

JMHO.

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Re: UH basketball expectations

Post by poidog »

I don't really like watching Gib's teams play basketball, especially on offense. I don't like that they can't shoot over zone defenses and I don't like that they constantly run pointless ball screens above the 3pt line against man defenses. I don't like having to get to know new players every year because they have so much player turnover. I don't think I'm alone in feeling this way, which may be why attendance is bad and why they lost money on the CIT game. Giving him more time isn't going to fix any of these things. Maybe some people don't mind watching them play borderline pick-up ball and struggle against smaller-but-more-disciplined teams in the Big West, but I not me. I'm a life-long fan of UH Hoops, but it's been hard to get excited about this team this past season, even during that win streak in the beginning of the year. It just didn't feel like something they could sustain with their style of play.

My expectations:

1. recruit student-athletes with character.
2. discipline on the court, particularly on offense.
3. great outside shooting.

Basically, I miss Riley Wallace basketball.

I wish we would try to be more like the Gonzaga's and St. Mary's (minus the recruiting scandal) and less like USC's. It just fits our program better.

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Re: UH basketball expectations

Post by seasider »

poidog wrote:I don't really like watching Gib's teams play basketball, especially on offense. I don't like that they can't shoot over zone defenses and I don't like that they constantly run pointless ball screens above the 3pt line against man defenses. I don't like having to get to know new players every year because they have so much player turnover. I don't think I'm alone in feeling this way, which may be why attendance is bad and why they lost money on the CIT game. Giving him more time isn't going to fix any of these things. Maybe some people don't mind watching them play borderline pick-up ball and struggle against smaller-but-more-disciplined teams in the Big West, but I not me. I'm a life-long fan of UH Hoops, but it's been hard to get excited about this team this past season, even during that win streak in the beginning of the year. It just didn't feel like something they could sustain with their style of play.

My expectations:

1. recruit student-athletes with character.
2. discipline on the court, particularly on offense.
3. great outside shooting.

Basically, I miss Riley Wallace basketball.

I wish we would try to be more like the Gonzaga's and St. Mary's (minus the recruiting scandal) and less like USC's. It just fits our program better.
LOL..you really miss Riley Wallace's last few years?

Gonzaga's recruiting ground, i.e. Duke and the rest of the BCS, and WCC, is only a bus ride away. "mo easy to recruit" than Hawaii's 2,500 mile plane ride to the West Coast.

Again, if Vander was 100% from the get go, and Spearman didn't sustain a severe ankle injury, Hawaii would've could've should've won 20 and possibly the BWC title.

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Re: UH basketball expectations

Post by poidog »

seasider wrote: LOL..you really miss Riley Wallace's last few years?

Gonzaga's recruiting ground, i.e. Duke and the rest of the BCS, and WCC, is only a bus ride away. "mo easy to recruit" than Hawaii's 2,500 mile plane ride to the West Coast.

Again, if Vander was 100% from the get go, and Spearman didn't sustain a severe ankle injury, Hawaii would've could've should've won 20 and possibly the BWC title.
You can judge Riley Wallace by his last few years if you want, but no matter which RW season you look at they pretty much always had a guard who could shoot from outside and/or could take a big shot when necessary. They ran decent motion offenses against man defenses and usually had the firepower to shoot defenses out of zones. They weren't always the most athletic team on the court but for the most part they were likeable teams that were fun to watch. Things started to fall apart towards the end during the Matt Gibson/early Bobby Nash days, but up until then I don't think I ever thought what they were doing was broke beyond repair like I do now.

I'm not talking about who or how Gonzaga recruits as much as how they play basketball versus how USC plays basketball (though I do like what St Mary's has been doing in Australia). There's a certain style embraced by small schools and there's a style embraced by football power conference schools and I happen to prefer the small-school style. Gib likes that power conference style where you bring in athletic players and superior athleticism is the key and you win by emphasizing defense and spreading the floor and semi-freelancing on offense. For UH, this has worked against inferior teams and in the beginning of the season when teams haven't had time to jell, but it doesn't get the job done over the course of a whole season. Perhaps this kind of style could be successful here one day, but it's hard to be successful at anything when you have a first-year senior as your only option at PG and you lose a handful of underclassmen after every season. From a personal preference standpoint, I'd rather see a slightly less athletic team run set offenses and be able to shoot effectively from the outside.

I don't really care if Hawaii won 17 games or 20 games. it really doesn't matter to me. The team plays ugly basketball no matter who's healthy or who's hurt. what excuses are we going to be using next year if it is yet another year with no improvement?

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Re: UH basketball expectations

Post by seasider »

poidog wrote:
seasider wrote: LOL..you really miss Riley Wallace's last few years?

Gonzaga's recruiting ground, i.e. Duke and the rest of the BCS, and WCC, is only a bus ride away. "mo easy to recruit" than Hawaii's 2,500 mile plane ride to the West Coast.

Again, if Vander was 100% from the get go, and Spearman didn't sustain a severe ankle injury, Hawaii would've could've should've won 20 and possibly the BWC title.
You can judge Riley Wallace by his last few years if you want, but no matter which RW season you look at they pretty much always had a guard who could shoot from outside and/or could take a big shot when necessary. They ran decent motion offenses against man defenses and usually had the firepower to shoot defenses out of zones. They weren't always the most athletic team on the court but for the most part they were likeable teams that were fun to watch. Things started to fall apart towards the end during the Matt Gibson/early Bobby Nash days, but up until then I don't think I ever thought what they were doing was broke beyond repair like I do now.

I'm not talking about who or how Gonzaga recruits as much as how they play basketball versus how USC plays basketball (though I do like what St Mary's has been doing in Australia). There's a certain style embraced by small schools and there's a style embraced by football power conference schools and I happen to prefer the small-school style. Gib likes that power conference style where you bring in athletic players and superior athleticism is the key and you win by emphasizing defense and spreading the floor and semi-freelancing on offense. For UH, this has worked against inferior teams and in the beginning of the season when teams haven't had time to jell, but it doesn't get the job done over the course of a whole season. Perhaps this kind of style could be successful here one day, but it's hard to be successful at anything when you have a first-year senior as your only option at PG and you lose a handful of underclassmen after every season. From a personal preference standpoint, I'd rather see a slightly less athletic team run set offenses and be able to shoot effectively from the outside.

I don't really care if Hawaii won 17 games or 20 games. it really doesn't matter to me. The team plays ugly basketball no matter who's healthy or who's hurt. what excuses are we going to be using next year if it is yet another year with no improvement?
Not trying to be argumentive...but, bottom line no matter who the head coach, be it Gib Arnold or a Pitino with his 6 million dollar a year salary, will have a hard time recruiting for Hawaii...LOL if Pitino was to take a 5.5 million pay cut and coach for Hawaii, would he be able to put 4 and 5 star recruits on the floor at the same time?

Bottom line, you don't enjoy Hawaii basketball now; however, like a bunch of UH die-hards, I enjoy watching UH basketball, win or lose...LOL...even during those awful 3 years of Nash's tenure, I endured.

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Re: UH basketball expectations

Post by noasark2x2 »

I to find UH men's basketball hard to watch.
I understand that it is hard to recruit here, but it becomes harder when you can't retain players and you continue to change your recruiting philosophy every year.
I must say though saying that Gonzaga can just jump on a bus and recruit is laughable. I mean I guess you can jump on a bus and ride it for 6 hours till you get to Seattle if you really needed to. Gonzaga has built a program from the bottom up that allows them to recruit better players now. My hope is that Hawaii will find a coach that will help with this, I have my doubts if it is the current one though.
If you asked me how we should do this we should recruit a bunch of 6"6 to 6"8 guys and try to play full court, use a on ball screen offense or a dribble drive. But get after full court and press, if you can find a couple of shooters than even better.
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Re: UH basketball expectations

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noasark2x2 wrote:I to find UH men's basketball hard to watch.
I understand that it is hard to recruit here, but it becomes harder when you can't retain players and you continue to change your recruiting philosophy every year.
I must say though saying that Gonzaga can just jump on a bus and recruit is laughable. I mean I guess you can jump on a bus and ride it for 6 hours till you get to Seattle if you really needed to. Gonzaga has built a program from the bottom up that allows them to recruit better players now. My hope is that Hawaii will find a coach that will help with this, I have my doubts if it is the current one though.
If you asked me how we should do this we should recruit a bunch of 6"6 to 6"8 guys and try to play full court, use a on ball screen offense or a dribble drive. But get after full court and press, if you can find a couple of shooters than even better.
Gonzaga's recruiting ground is "mo fertile" than Hawaii's. Coach Arnold or whoever recruits for UH perennially has no D1 talent (again no pun intended to Hawaii's home grown basketball athletes) a bus ride away.

http://www.gozags.com/SportSelect.dbml? ... 27536&KEY=

Gonzaga’s men 2012-2013 basketball roster

Compared to UH, Gonzaga’s roster is loaded with basketball recruits a bus ride away from campus.

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Re: UH basketball expectations

Post by noasark2x2 »

seasider wrote:
noasark2x2 wrote:I to find UH men's basketball hard to watch.
I understand that it is hard to recruit here, but it becomes harder when you can't retain players and you continue to change your recruiting philosophy every year.
I must say though saying that Gonzaga can just jump on a bus and recruit is laughable. I mean I guess you can jump on a bus and ride it for 6 hours till you get to Seattle if you really needed to. Gonzaga has built a program from the bottom up that allows them to recruit better players now. My hope is that Hawaii will find a coach that will help with this, I have my doubts if it is the current one though.
If you asked me how we should do this we should recruit a bunch of 6"6 to 6"8 guys and try to play full court, use a on ball screen offense or a dribble drive. But get after full court and press, if you can find a couple of shooters than even better.
Gonzaga's recruiting ground is "mo fertile" than Hawaii's. Coach Arnold or whoever recruits for UH perennially has no D1 talent (again no pun intended to Hawaii's home grown basketball athletes) a bus ride away.

http://www.gozags.com/SportSelect.dbml? ... 27536&KEY=

Gonzaga’s men 2012-2013 basketball roster

Compared to UH, Gonzaga’s roster is loaded with basketball recruits a bus ride away from campus.
You are comparing 2012 Gonzaga to 2012 Hawaii. A team that was ranked number 1 and has had several years of success in the NCAA tournament. What we should be looking at is Gonzaga 1999 and their recruiting class.
Now even if you take this years team from Gonzaga you have several International players which means someone didn't just get on a bus and get them.
Gonzaga has had years to develop and showcase their offensive system and now they have name recognition because of their success that what is helping their recruiting.
Simply put Gib's recruiting is not as great as he puts it out to be in fact I find it to be bad. You add that to the ugly style of play with no idea on offense and very little defensive pressure and I'm sorry I just can't watch this product. So can't others which is why gib the "Great Recruiter" can't find players
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Re: UH basketball expectations

Post by Irse »

Yes. Recruiting is hard since there is not much local talent. But it seems like Arnold doesn't know what kind of players he wants. He brings in a class and most of them leave the next year or they don't even qualify. Don't always need 4-5 stars. Florida Gulf Coast did more with their 1 star guys than Kentucky did with their 5 star guys. Of course, Calipari can't coach worth a damn.
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Re: UH basketball expectations

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noasark2x2 wrote:
seasider wrote:
noasark2x2 wrote:I to find UH men's basketball hard to watch.
I understand that it is hard to recruit here, but it becomes harder when you can't retain players and you continue to change your recruiting philosophy every year.
I must say though saying that Gonzaga can just jump on a bus and recruit is laughable. I mean I guess you can jump on a bus and ride it for 6 hours till you get to Seattle if you really needed to. Gonzaga has built a program from the bottom up that allows them to recruit better players now. My hope is that Hawaii will find a coach that will help with this, I have my doubts if it is the current one though.
If you asked me how we should do this we should recruit a bunch of 6"6 to 6"8 guys and try to play full court, use a on ball screen offense or a dribble drive. But get after full court and press, if you can find a couple of shooters than even better.
Gonzaga's recruiting ground is "mo fertile" than Hawaii's. Coach Arnold or whoever recruits for UH perennially has no D1 talent (again no pun intended to Hawaii's home grown basketball athletes) a bus ride away.

http://www.gozags.com/SportSelect.dbml? ... 27536&KEY=

Gonzaga’s men 2012-2013 basketball roster

Compared to UH, Gonzaga’s roster is loaded with basketball recruits a bus ride away from campus.
You are comparing 2012 Gonzaga to 2012 Hawaii. A team that was ranked number 1 and has had several years of success in the NCAA tournament. What we should be looking at is Gonzaga 1999 and their recruiting class.
Now even if you take this years team from Gonzaga you have several International players which means someone didn't just get on a bus and get them.
Gonzaga has had years to develop and showcase their offensive system and now they have name recognition because of their success that what is helping their recruiting.
Simply put Gib's recruiting is not as great as he puts it out to be in fact I find it to be bad. You add that to the ugly style of play with no idea on offense and very little defensive pressure and I'm sorry I just can't watch this product. So can't others which is why gib the "Great Recruiter" can't find players
LOL..I'm comparing Gonzaga's roster versus Uh's roster and where their recruits come from. Gonzaga's recruits is a bus ride away compared to Hawaii's 2,500 miles plus plane ride.

Again, not making excuse for Gib, but no matter who you pencil in for head coach for Hawaii, that buggah, i.e. Pitino with his 6 million a year salary would have a hard time putting the same kind of talent that he perennially put on the floor at Louisville. And, the head coach of Pittsburgh, has said, "recruiting for Hawaii" is a tough sell...LOL...not verbatim, but somethin latdat.

All I can say is "endure bruddah" 'cause better days will come.

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Re: UH basketball expectations

Post by noasark2x2 »

What I'm saying is that Gonzagas recruits are not a bus ride away.you make it sound like they are recruiting Idaho and Spokane which they are not.
They have the same situation we have and yet they found a way to build a program that won with second to third tier recruits and then built a program.
A big part of their building is playing a open style that is fun to play and fun to watch. Right now we have an ugly style so it is hard to fill seats and hard to recruit. The hard thing with this is Gib is supposed to be a recruiter.
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Re: UH basketball expectations

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noasark2x2 wrote:What I'm saying is that Gonzagas recruits are not a bus ride away.you make it sound like they are recruiting Idaho and Spokane which they are not.
They have the same situation we have and yet they found a way to build a program that won with second to third tier recruits and then built a program.
A big part of their building is playing a open style that is fun to play and fun to watch. Right now we have an ugly style so it is hard to fill seats and hard to recruit. The hard thing with this is Gib is supposed to be a recruiter.
http://www.gozags.com/SportSelect.dbml? ... 27536&KEY=

One from Idaho, 3 from Washington, 1 from Oregon

UH has 1 walkon from Hawaii.

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