2018-2019 Boy's Basketball Thread

[HS Football Fanatic]

@HS Football Fanatic

To add another reason why Obrey should've got it was that every night of the tournament, Obrey was facing defenses that focused strictly on her throwing double and triple teams at her and she still managed to do what she did. The Wu girl from Iolani didn't have to deal with that whatsoever.
I've read comments in other forums about the game, and I haven't seen one person disagree with the opinion that Obrey should've been the MOP. In my opinion, the committee that selects the all tourney team needs to take a day or two, evaluate everything, and then make a decision. It seems like these teams are always picked in a rush the night of the final game.

@Naz: The problem is that there's this belief that the MOP must ALWAYS come from the winning school. This is a rip-off. Obrey CLEARLY should have been declared MOP. The selection of Wu adds insult to injury. Obrey thought she had the game-tying shot, then it was yanked away from her. That was devastating enough. Then Wu is selected MOP. This is an injustice and an unmitigated rip-off. Obrey was ROBBED TWICE. This is a terrible thing to do to a teenage kid.

I saw the same thing happen in Game 3 of the 1990 NBA Finals, when the Blazers hit a shot that seemingly tied the game against the Pistons. The refs ruled it came too late.

Anyway, Iolani experienced the best and worst of both worlds this weekend. Their soccer team lost a heartbreaker to us.

@gopunahou: And Iolani School experienced another downer just last night; their boy's basketball team lost to St Francis School. This is significant in that, if they had won, they would be going to States. But, since they lost, they have to play St Francis again tomorrow night. The winner goes to States; the loser is done.
Thought I'd also mention that today's Star-Advertiser picked Obrey as the top girl performer of the week, for her exploits in the state tourney. If Wu were truly the MOP of the tourney, they would have picked her.

[Naz]

@gopunahou: And Iolani School experienced another downer just last night; their boy's basketball team lost to St Francis School. This is significant in that, if they had won, they would be going to States. But, since they lost, they have to play St Francis again tomorrow night. The winner goes to States; the loser is done.
Thought I'd also mention that today's Star-Advertiser picked Obrey as the top girl performer of the week, for her exploits in the state tourney. If Wu were truly the MOP of the tourney, they would have picked her.

As soon as I saw the score, I was like "really 'Iolani?" They basically allowed one guy to beat them. I would have liked to have watched the game because the kid was able to take 16 free throws. He took more free throws than the entire 'Iolani team. In most cases, I would say well I guess he just got mauled and went to the charity stripe. But I have seen that kid play. He sells EVERYTYHING even the tiniest contact and the refs fall for it like butter. 'Iolani better not lose to them in the second game that would be bad for their program - they're lucky they even have a second game to play in the first place.

As for Obrey, this basketball powers that be can make her M.O.P. snub right by naming her the girls basketball state POY and/or Gatorade POY.

[HS Football Fanatic]

@gopunahou: And Iolani School experienced another downer just last night; their boy's basketball team lost to St Francis School. This is significant in that, if they had won, they would be going to States. But, since they lost, they have to play St Francis again tomorrow night. The winner goes to States; the loser is done.
Thought I'd also mention that today's Star-Advertiser picked Obrey as the top girl performer of the week, for her exploits in the state tourney. If Wu were truly the MOP of the tourney, they would have picked her.

As soon as I saw the score, I was like "really 'Iolani?" They basically allowed one guy to beat them. I would have liked to have watched the game because the kid was able to take 16 free throws. He took more free throws than the entire 'Iolani team. In most cases, I would say well I guess he just got mauled and went to the charity stripe. But I have seen that kid play. He sells EVERYTYHING even the tiniest contact and the refs fall for it like butter. 'Iolani better not lose to them in the second game that would be bad for their program - they're lucky they even have a second game to play in the first place.

As for Obrey, this basketball powers that be can make her M.O.P. snub right by naming her the girls basketball state POY and/or Gatorade POY.

@Naz: Well, I'm hoping that Iolani School does lose. I'm sorry; I simply don't like that school. And, the reason they have a second game is that they finished 3rd in the reg season. St Francis School finished third in the single-elimination tourney, so now the two third-place schools have to play for the final ILH state berth.


Regarding Obrey, yes. She should be named POY for all-state team or Gatorade. I feel bad for her; she deserves at least one of those honors. In effect, she was robbed twice at the state tourney. This girl needs to be made whole.

[Naz]

@Naz: Well, I'm hoping that Iolani School does lose. I'm sorry; I simply don't like that school. And, the reason they have a second game is that they finished 3rd in the reg season. St Francis School finished third in the single-elimination tourney, so now the two third-place schools have to play for the final ILH state berth.

One thing we have in common is a distaste for the "bluebloods" of the ILH. I for sure would rather see 'Iolani go down than to win trust me. BUT, in this case, I would rather see 'Iolani get the third seed than Saint Francis. As you can tell in my many previous posts, I am very anti-SF. I feel they have shamed their way to two state titles in D2 the last two seasons and only moved up this year because they felt the pressure and realized they would be a farce to have stayed down this year again. I feel like the Ng boy's hype is primarily because the media failed to see that this kid who plays with a dad on the coaching staff, is allowed to shoot the entire game without consequence and plays whether or not his team is up by 30 or down by 30. I feel anyone's stats would flourish in that scenario. When SF played a legit out of state team in the 'Iolani Classic, they got beat by 50, he played the whole game, shot terribly and still got hyped up as if Saint Francis upset the other team. I also can't stand the coach, Durant, he talks out his mouth as if his player is the next best thing since Derrick Low. Newsflash, coach, Low didn't play 3/4 of his varsity years in division 2. Imagine if an Ostrowski played against Hanalani, Le Jardin, HBA, etc. He would have scored ungodly numbers. But we as a state would have realized that it was against much inferior competition. That's how I see this scenario with SF in Division 2.

[HS Football Fanatic]

@Naz: Well, I'm hoping that Iolani School does lose. I'm sorry; I simply don't like that school. And, the reason they have a second game is that they finished 3rd in the reg season. St Francis School finished third in the single-elimination tourney, so now the two third-place schools have to play for the final ILH state berth.

One thing we have in common is a distaste for the "bluebloods" of the ILH. I for sure would rather see 'Iolani go down than to win trust me. BUT, in this case, I would rather see 'Iolani get the third seed than Saint Francis. As you can tell in my many previous posts, I am very anti-SF. I feel they have shamed their way to two state titles in D2 the last two seasons and only moved up this year because they felt the pressure and realized they would be a farce to have stayed down this year again. I feel like the Ng boy's hype is primarily because the media failed to see that this kid who plays with a dad on the coaching staff, is allowed to shoot the entire game without consequence and plays whether or not his team is up by 30 or down by 30. I feel anyone's stats would flourish in that scenario. When SF played a legit out of state team in the 'Iolani Classic, they got beat by 50, he played the whole game, shot terribly and still got hyped up as if Saint Francis upset the other team. I also can't stand the coach, Durant, he talks out his mouth as if his player is the next best thing since Derrick Low. Newsflash, coach, Low didn't play 3/4 of his varsity years in division 2. Imagine if an Ostrowski played against Hanalani, Le Jardin, HBA, etc. He would have scored ungodly numbers. But we as a state would have realized that it was against much inferior competition. That's how I see this scenario with SF in Division 2.

@Naz: I totally get what you're saying, and respect it. However, for me, my dislike of Iolani School trumps everything you've posted. Don't get me wrong; again, I think everything you said in this post is legit. But for me, I simply don't want Iolani School going to States. For me, it's all about the schools; individual coaches and players don't tilt that. After all, each coach and each player is coaching/playing for some particular school, and I definitely prefer St Francis School to Iolani School. I prefer to see the Saints, despite all their "warts" that you mentioned, go to States.

[bandits1]

I've stated my disdain for the ILH several times on this board, but I watched the girls' championship anyway because I enjoy watching most high school sports, regardless. So without a horse in the race, so to speak, I can say with a good amount of objectivity that it's a complete shame there have been more articles and comments written about Kamehemeha than of state champion Iolani. It's ridiculous. There is absolutely no "controversy" and nobody was "robbed" of anything. Yes, there was confusion all throughout the Kam side, from players to coaches to fans, but that has nothing to do with Iolani. Even the game's MOP Wu was quoted as knowing to check the red light and nothing else.

The red light on the backboard and it's synchronized clock just behind it are the only official time keepers. Not the buzzer, which from what I understand hasn't been official in the state tourney for a looooooong time, and with the video review rules, not even the refs initial call on the floor can determine how a game ends in circumstances like this one. The video replay showed that Obrey wasn't even close to releasing the ball in time. Super obvious. However, in real-time it was close enough that a video review was warranted, especially since at least one ref signaled it as good. What's troubling to me is even after reviewing the video a first time a couple of the refs still thought the shot was in-time. That means either they initially reviewed the play with a bad camera angle, don't understand the rules or were refereeing with an agenda. Hopefully it's the first reason. But even if it's the first reason, bad camera angle, how could they rule that the shot was in-time without being able to see the clock and red light on tape? That's fishy because it suggests that it could be the 2nd or 3rd reasons, misunderstanding of the rules or at least one of them was dirty.

In any case, Iolani 100% earned this victory, it wasn't that Kam gave anything away or got robbed. The better team won, period, end of story.

[HS Football Fanatic]

I've stated my disdain for the ILH several times on this board, but I watched the girls' championship anyway because I enjoy watching most high school sports, regardless. So without a horse in the race, so to speak, I can say with a good amount of objectivity that it's a complete shame there have been more articles and comments written about Kamehemeha than of state champion Iolani. It's ridiculous. There is absolutely no "controversy" and nobody was "robbed" of anything. Yes, there was confusion all throughout the Kam side, from players to coaches to fans, but that has nothing to do with Iolani. Even the game's MOP Wu was quoted as knowing to check the red light and nothing else.

The red light on the backboard and it's synchronized clock just behind it are the only official time keepers. Not the buzzer, which from what I understand hasn't been official in the state tourney for a looooooong time, and with the video review rules, not even the refs initial call on the floor can determine how a game ends in circumstances like this one. The video replay showed that Obrey wasn't even close to releasing the ball in time. Super obvious. However, in real-time it was close enough that a video review was warranted, especially since at least one ref signaled it as good. What's troubling to me is even after reviewing the video a first time a couple of the refs still thought the shot was in-time. That means either they initially reviewed the play with a bad camera angle, don't understand the rules or were refereeing with an agenda. Hopefully it's the first reason. But even if it's the first reason, bad camera angle, how could they rule that the shot was in-time without being able to see the clock and red light on tape? That's fishy because it suggests that it could be the 2nd or 3rd reasons, misunderstanding of the rules or at least one of them was dirty.

In any case, Iolani 100% earned this victory, it wasn't that Kam gave anything away or got robbed. The better team won, period, end of story.

@bandits1: Technically you are correct; upon review, Obrey did release the shot a little too late. But, what about Wu being named MOP? That, especially, is what bothers Naz and I. And, according to Naz, guys on other sports forums feel the same. And, OK, Iolani School had the better team, but by what, a nanosecond? That's "100%"? So the Raiders were "100%" better than the Warriors? Iolani School "100% earned" the victory? Then Kamehameha Schools worked "only" 99% hard, having lost by a nanosecond?

Naz and I would argue that there was indeed controversy about the selection of Wu as MOP. I mention again that the Star-Advertiser picked Obrey as girl player of the week, and it listed what she did at the state tourney as the reason. Why didn't the paper pick Wu?

By the way, "MOP" means MOP for the tourney, not just the title game.

[bandits1]

^^^I don't know nearly enough about the rules or traditions the HHSAA uses to select the MOP. If the MOP is always selected from the winning team then Wu was obviously the correct choice. If there's no written or unwritten understanding that they have to come from the winning team, then I'd agree that Obrey was the most consistently dominant player throughout the tourney. I don't know exactly what awards are given post-championship and I don't care, but IMO, MVP of the tourney goes to Obrey and MVP of the title game goes to Wu. Yes, Obrey impressively broke an all-time scoring record and jammed in every game despite defenses presumably being geared to stop her, but without Wu, Kam goes home with the koa trophy. She led her team to victory in the single most important game of the season and Obrey didn't. Winning the team championship counts for a lot.

And stop twisting my words around. Yes, Iolani 100% earned the victory. They played the team that has what seems to be the unanimous #1 player in the state who had dominant, record-breaking performances throughout, yet Iolani was the team with more points on the scoreboard when the clock hit 00:00. If you need to qualify what I said further by making up sh!t like "the Raiders were "100%" better than the Warriors" to ease your anger toward Iolani winning, go right ahead, but that's not what I said or meant. The two best teams in the state met head-to-head in the championship game and Iolani won fair-and-square. No "controversy", just a misunderstanding of the rules by a whole bunch of people who were pulling for Kam.

And BTW, they really, really need to put in a shot-clock in high school basketball. Make it 30 or even 35 seconds, but they gotta do it.

[Naz]

There is absolutely no "controversy" and nobody was "robbed" of anything.

I for one am not disputing 'Iolani's win over Kamehameha. Replay clearly shows the shot did not count. However, there was a robbery in the sense of Obrey not being given the M.O.P. award for the 2019 state tournament. Obrey led the tournament with 21.5 ppg to Wu's 15.7 and as we all know she set a state tourney single game scoring record in the semifinals. I don't have the other stats like rebounds, blocks, assists, but I have to believe Obrey's were better in those categories as well. On top of that, we all saw her get hounded by every team of the state tournament. I did not see Wu have to deal with double coverage. For all those reasons, I feel by definition that Obrey was the "MOST OUTSTANDING PLAYER" of all participating teams. Basically, to me, a robbery. Players on losing teams in the state title game have won the "MVP" award... because this award is not about ONE GAME but a body of collective work from the opening round onward.

[HS Football Fanatic]

^^^I don't know nearly enough about the rules or traditions the HHSAA uses to select the MOP. If the MOP is always selected from the winning team then Wu was obviously the correct choice. If there's no written or unwritten understanding that they have to come from the winning team, then I'd agree that Obrey was the most consistently dominant player throughout the tourney. I don't know exactly what awards are given post-championship and I don't care, but IMO, MVP of the tourney goes to Obrey and MVP of the title game goes to Wu. Yes, Obrey impressively broke an all-time scoring record and jammed in every game despite defenses presumably being geared to stop her, but without Wu, Kam goes home with the koa trophy. She led her team to victory in the single most important game of the season and Obrey didn't. Winning the team championship counts for a lot.

And stop twisting my words around. Yes, Iolani 100% earned the victory. They played the team that has what seems to be the unanimous #1 player in the state who had dominant, record-breaking performances throughout, yet Iolani was the team with more points on the scoreboard when the clock hit 00:00. If you need to qualify what I said further by making up sh!t like "the Raiders were "100%" better than the Warriors" to ease your anger toward Iolani winning, go right ahead, but that's not what I said or meant. The two best teams in the state met head-to-head in the championship game and Iolani won fair-and-square. No "controversy", just a misunderstanding of the rules by a whole bunch of people who were pulling for Kam.

And BTW, they really, really need to put in a shot-clock in high school basketball. Make it 30 or even 35 seconds, but they gotta do it.

@bandits1: If I "twisted your words around," it's because it sounded like you were insulting Kamehameha Schools. I think Kamehameha alumni would consider that very uncool, given the way that game went. When you say Iolani School 100% earned the victory, you made it sound as though they had kicked the Warriors' butts. Read your initial post again, and see if I'm wrong. See if that's not the impression you made. Often, it's not only what you say, it's how you say it.

[HS Football Fanatic]

There is absolutely no "controversy" and nobody was "robbed" of anything.

I for one am not disputing 'Iolani's win over Kamehameha. Replay clearly shows the shot did not count. However, there was a robbery in the sense of Obrey not being given the M.O.P. award for the 2019 state tournament. Obrey led the tournament with 21.5 ppg to Wu's 15.7 and as we all know she set a state tourney single game scoring record in the semifinals. I don't have the other stats like rebounds, blocks, assists, but I have to believe Obrey's were better in those categories as well. On top of that, we all saw her get hounded by every team of the state tournament. I did not see Wu have to deal with double coverage. For all those reasons, I feel by definition that Obrey was the "MOST OUTSTANDING PLAYER" of all participating teams. Basically, to me, a robbery. Players on losing teams in the state title game have won the "MVP" award... because this award is not about ONE GAME but a body of collective work from the opening round onward.

@Naz: BEAUTIFUL. And YOUR logic was the logic employed by the Star-Advertiser. THAT'S why THEY picked Obrey girl player of the week. AND, they CITED her performance in the state tourney. Their position, like yours and mine, is UNMISTAKABLE. THERE WAS A ROBBERY.

[bandits1]

@bandits1: If I "twisted your words around," it's because it sounded like you were insulting Kamehameha Schools. I think Kamehameha alumni would consider that very uncool, given the way that game went. When you say Iolani School 100% earned the victory, you made it sound as though they had kicked the Warriors' butts. Read your initial post again, and see if I'm wrong. See if that's not the impression you made. Often, it's not only what you say, it's how you say it.

"Iolani 100% earned this victory". Read it again and yup, you're wrong, it's not insulting to Kam at all. Iolani girls winning the 2019 state basketball championship over Kam is a historical fact, so get on board. Take a deep breath and let the anger go until next season.

And Naz, thanks for clearing up the MOP having to/not having to be from the winning team thing. I already said that Obrey clearly deserved MOP of the tourney. My guess why Wu won it is the voters were probably swayed by emotions right after such a close and exciting game. Like I said, winning the championship counts for a lot to a lot of people. And just to clear, I didn't say Obrey didn't get robbed, I said the Kam girls basketball team and it's coaches and fans didn't get robbed, not as far as the result of the game goes. Not in any way, shape or form.

[HS Football Fanatic]

@bandits1: If I "twisted your words around," it's because it sounded like you were insulting Kamehameha Schools. I think Kamehameha alumni would consider that very uncool, given the way that game went. When you say Iolani School 100% earned the victory, you made it sound as though they had kicked the Warriors' butts. Read your initial post again, and see if I'm wrong. See if that's not the impression you made. Often, it's not only what you say, it's how you say it.

"Iolani 100% earned this victory". Read it again and yup, you're wrong, it's not insulting to Kam at all. Iolani girls winning the 2019 state basketball championship over Kam is a historical fact, so get on board. Take a deep breath and let the anger go until next season.

And Naz, thanks for clearing up the MOP having to/not having to be from the winning team thing. I already said that Obrey clearly deserved MOP of the tourney. My guess why Wu won it is the voters were probably swayed by emotions right after such a close and exciting game. Like I said, winning the championship counts for a lot to a lot of people. And just to clear, I didn't say Obrey didn't get robbed, I said the Kam girls basketball team and it's coaches and fans didn't get robbed, not as far as the result of the game goes. Not in any way, shape or form.

@bandits1: I don't want to get into an argument with you. Read your entire post, not just one sentence of it. Let me just quote the last statement from your original post: "The better team won. Period. End of story." OK. The Raiders were one nanosecond better than the Warriors. Again, given the replay, no one is disputing that the Raiders won the game. It just sounded (at least to me) that your post was pretty dismissive of the Warriors. Whatever.

[gopunahou]

With Iolani beating St. Francis today, we've got a strong chance of facing them again (that is if we beat Kapolei and Lahainaluna). If Iolani plays Moanalua, I don't like Moanalua's chances against them.

[Naz]

With Iolani beating St. Francis today, we've got a strong chance of facing them again (that is if we beat Kapolei and Lahainaluna). If Iolani plays Moanalua, I don't like Moanalua's chances against them.

I love how Moanalua wins the OIA and because of the ILH's 3 seeds this year, their reward for being the best in the OIA is to potentially play all 3 ILH seeds. Wow.