2017-18 Basketball Thread

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

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gopunahou wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:09 pm Before now, has anyone given St. Francis basketball grief about playing in D2? Because before the 2000s even ended, Iolani FB and Coach Look were the recipients of non-stop criticism from football fans (including myself, all because of outlandish claims and justifications from Iolani elitists). And would St. Francis players welcome the challenge of playing the likes of Punahou, Iolani, Kamehameha, and Maryknoll twice? At least St. Francis can’t use the “safety” argument in BB like Iolani FB laughably did. But I think that one of the reasons Iolani complied with the ILH to play the Big Three in football is because their players loved to play the Big Three (they also must’ve thought it would’ve helped them win the D1 championship two years ago).
@gopunahou: That's the irony that I've noticed. In football--in fact, in any sport--the players want to take-on the big boys. The HC and/or the AD/Admin might be leary, but the kids want to take-on the tough schools. That's the bravado that young kids have. Now, if St Francis refuses to go up to D1 next year for basketball, they'll be the object of contempt for every D2 school.

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

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Naz wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:34 pm
gopunahou wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:09 pm Before now, has anyone given St. Francis basketball grief about playing in D2? Because before the 2000s even ended, Iolani FB and Coach Look were the recipients of non-stop criticism from football fans (including myself, all because of outlandish claims and justifications from Iolani elitists). And would St. Francis players welcome the challenge of playing the likes of Punahou, Iolani, Kamehameha, and Maryknoll twice? At least St. Francis can’t use the “safety” argument in BB like Iolani FB laughably did. But I think that one of the reasons Iolani complied with the ILH to play the Big Three in football is because their players loved to play the Big Three (they also must’ve thought it would’ve helped them win the D1 championship two years ago).
I have read articles on ScoringLive where the Saint Francis coach has talked his players up, likened his players' skill-sets to that of NBA players, and said his players could go head-to-head and were just as good if not better than certain Division 1 players in the state. If you're gonna talk that big game, get your backside up to Division 2. Otherwise, that is all just talk. As the coach, how can you honestly feel that you have the best team in the state knowing that for the majority of the season, you are not competing at the highest division the state has to offer. I have to assume the Saint Francis players would welcome the step up to D1, some of them have been quoted with saying they intend to play collegiately. I don't know too many college coaches recruiting Hawai'i in general, let alone Div II in Hawai'i.
@Naz: As I mentioned in a previous post, the kids are always eager to take-on anybody and everybody. It's the HC, AD, and/or Admin that balk(s). It could be that the St Francis coach wants to have it both ways: Have everyone think that St Francis can beat anyone, and yet not have to prove it by playing in D1.

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

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I wanted everyone's pre-season top 10 prior to the start of the 'Iolani Classic tournament which starts this Friday. I figured I'd wait to see the outcomes of this Tuesday night's games as it seems like there are no significant games being played until Friday. I'm interested to see others but here is my mid-pre-season top 10:
1. Punahou 2. Kamehameha 3. Saint Francis 4. Maryknoll 5. 'Iolani 6. Kahuku 7. Kapolei 8. Kalaheo 9. Campbell 10. Farrington.

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

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Naz wrote: Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:24 pm I wanted everyone's pre-season top 10 prior to the start of the 'Iolani Classic tournament which starts this Friday. I figured I'd wait to see the outcomes of this Tuesday night's games as it seems like there are no significant games being played until Friday. I'm interested to see others but here is my mid-pre-season top 10:
1. Punahou 2. Kamehameha 3. Saint Francis 4. Maryknoll 5. 'Iolani 6. Kahuku 7. Kapolei 8. Kalaheo 9. Campbell 10. Farrington.
@Naz:
1. Punahou 2. Kapolei 3. Kamehameha 4. St Francis 5. Maryknoll 6. Iolani 7. Kahuku 8. Kalaheo 9. Campbell 10. Farrington.
Last edited by HS Football Fanatic on Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

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I guess this looks like a down year for Iolani, as St. Francis could probably beat them. Iolani is to basketball what St. Louis is to football and likely treats its basketball team the way St. Louis treats its football team.
Punahou Football: 12-1, 2008 ILH and State Champions! 11-0, 2013 ILH and State Champions, a team for the ages!

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

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gopunahou wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:48 pm I guess this looks like a down year for Iolani, as St. Francis could probably beat them. Iolani is to basketball what St. Louis is to football and likely treats its basketball team the way St. Louis treats its football team.
[/quote
@gopunahou: Well, no matter how a school treats its football team or basketball team, if that team doesn't have the horses, said treatment won't do much good. Take Iolani's basketball team, for example. This year, it doesn't seem that they have the horses to be a contender. As far as I know, the only superstar they lost to graduation is Hugh Hogland. Yet, look what a difference losing him seems to have made. Yes, I agree St Francis can beat them this year. And, as several of us on this thread have said, St Francis has no business being in D2. Further, you said that Iolani is to basketball what St Louis is to football. Well, I wouldn't count-out your alma mater. For two years running, Punahou will have outdone Iolani in basketball. And, Punahou had been pretty dominant in basketball further back in the past. For example, in the late-'70s, Iolani wasn't really a force in basketball. Back then, it was Punahou and Maryknoll in the ILH, and Kaiser and Radford in the OIA.

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

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HS Football Fanatic wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:20 am
Naz wrote: Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:24 pm I wanted everyone's pre-season top 10 prior to the start of the 'Iolani Classic tournament which starts this Friday. I figured I'd wait to see the outcomes of this Tuesday night's games as it seems like there are no significant games being played until Friday. I'm interested to see others but here is my mid-pre-season top 10:
1. Punahou 2. Kamehameha 3. Saint Francis 4. Maryknoll 5. 'Iolani 6. Kahuku 7. Kapolei 8. Kalaheo 9. Campbell 10. Farrington.
@Naz:
1. Punahou 2. Kapolei 3. Kamehameha 4. St Francis 5. Maryknoll 6. Iolani 7. Kahuku 8. Kalaheo 9. Campbell 10. Farrington.
Oops. After last night's games, gotta make adjustments to my Top 10:

1. Punahou 2. Kailua 3. Kamehameha 4. St Francis 5. Kapolei 6. Maryknoll 7. Iolani 8. Kahuku 9. Kalaheo 10. Farrington.

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

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HS Football Fanatic wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:34 pm
Oops. After last night's games, gotta make adjustments to my Top 10:

1. Punahou 2. Kailua 3. Kamehameha 4. St Francis 5. Kapolei 6. Maryknoll 7. Iolani 8. Kahuku 9. Kalaheo 10. Farrington.
I'd assume the best way to rank in pre-season is to compare head-to-head games, games vs common opponents, and "strength" of pre-season schedules. Just for the sake of pure discussion, I have to ask what is your rationale for having Kailua ahead of two teams that they have lost to in your top 10 (Iolani and St. Francis) and one spot ahead of Kamehameha who beat St. Francis by 5 (Kailua lost to them by 15). Secondly, how do you justify Kapolei ahead of a team that beat them by 23?

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

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Naz wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:44 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:34 pm
Oops. After last night's games, gotta make adjustments to my Top 10:

1. Punahou 2. Kailua 3. Kamehameha 4. St Francis 5. Kapolei 6. Maryknoll 7. Iolani 8. Kahuku 9. Kalaheo 10. Farrington.
I'd assume the best way to rank in pre-season is to compare head-to-head games, games vs common opponents, and "strength" of pre-season schedules. Just for the sake of pure discussion, I have to ask what is your rationale for having Kailua ahead of two teams that they have lost to in your top 10 (Iolani and St. Francis) and one spot ahead of Kamehameha who beat St. Francis by 5 (Kailua lost to them by 15). Secondly, how do you justify Kapolei ahead of a team that beat them by 23?
@Naz: Those are very good questions. My poll is not scientific at all; it's basically by the seat of my pants. I ranked Kailua #2 because they beat Kapolei, so I moved Kapolei down to #5. If I recall correctly, Kapolei had kicked Farrington's butts by 16, while #3 Kamehameha had narrowly escaped Farrington by 2 on a last-second layup. Regarding Kamehameha having beaten St Francis by 5, a few St Francis starters weren't playing in that game because they were in the All-Star football game. The problem is that many schools--namely Kamehameha--are so darned inconsistent. My poll probably sucks because of its "unscientificness."

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

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I've seen kids of various sports say they don't mind being D2 cause it would give them a better chance to make it to states. It just depends from kid to kid cause who doesn't like winning?

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

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Neighbor wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:47 am I've seen kids of various sports say they don't mind being D2 cause it would give them a better chance to make it to states. It just depends from kid to kid cause who doesn't like winning?
@Neighbor: Well, of course what you say is true. But, if a school strong enough to be in D1, is instead in D2, then the other D2 schools resent it. Not only that, but guys who are alumni of D1 schools who don't like that wrongly-classified school, will also resent that school. Take Iolani School, for example. Their football team has been in D2 for quite some time, and they have the won the state title in many if not most of those years. For years, guys have been saying Iolani belongs in D1. Well, there are alumni of D1 schools who don't like Iolani School, and therefore can't stand seeing them so often winning the title. I, myself, must confess that I don't particularly care for Iolani School, so I really don't like to see them win titles (this isn't to say that I'm an alumnus of a D1 school). Basically, I guess D1 schools hiding in D2 garner opprobrium from guys who don't like that school. Right now, I don't strongly dislike Iolani School because their basketball teams (boys' and girls') and their soccer teams (boys' and girls') have suffered some losses, so I don't resent Iolani School that much at the moment.

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

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Neighbor wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:47 am I've seen kids of various sports say they don't mind being D2 cause it would give them a better chance to make it to states. It just depends from kid to kid cause who doesn't like winning?
I honestly feel that there should only be one division when it comes to a basketball state tournament. If the ILH D2 representatives wants to get into states, they should have to play into the tournament by playing in the ILH D1 tournament like how it used to be couple years back. My gripe with Saint Francis is that the coach likes to talk up his program and his players but gets to fall back under the banner of Division 2 and not have to play the D1 teams the entire season following the pre-season. Also, it isn't a good look for the D1 teams because EVERYTIME a D1 team loses to Saint Francis, which happens a lot, the papers are going to mention that "Division 2 Saint Francis defeated" so and so team. It's a sham that St. Francis continues to classify at this division.

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

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Naz wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:21 pm
Neighbor wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:47 am I've seen kids of various sports say they don't mind being D2 cause it would give them a better chance to make it to states. It just depends from kid to kid cause who doesn't like winning?
I honestly feel that there should only be one division when it comes to a basketball state tournament. If the ILH D2 representatives wants to get into states, they should have to play into the tournament by playing in the ILH D1 tournament like how it used to be couple years back. My gripe with Saint Francis is that the coach likes to talk up his program and his players but gets to fall back under the banner of Division 2 and not have to play the D1 teams the entire season following the pre-season. Also, it isn't a good look for the D1 teams because EVERYTIME a D1 team loses to Saint Francis, which happens a lot, the papers are going to mention that "Division 2 Saint Francis defeated" so and so team. It's a sham that St. Francis continues to classify at this division.
@Naz: Absolutely. Unfortunately, not everyone knows and/or understands that St Francis should be D1. Therefore, when St Francis beats a D1 school, people think that that D1 school sucks, when in fact it might not suck. What people might not understand is that St Francis should be in D1. I agree that St Francis is perpetuating a sham, and should be called on it. This sham is even more shameful and blatant than the sham of Iolani being in D2 for football. It is a fact that Iolani's football players tend to be smaller, and Iolani's football teams don't generally have lots of players. Plus, football is very physical. Basketball, however, is much less physical than football, and you need only five players at a time. In football, you ideally want eleven guys on O and another eleven guys on D. Therefore, while you pretty much want 22 starters for football, you need only five starters for basketball. Granted, basketball players can get into foul trouble, which virtually necessitates that a school have more than five players, of course. But even then, basketball players being benched for foul trouble aren't injured, while football players usually leave their starting roles because of injury. What I'm saying, then, is: If we say shame on Iolani for being in D2 for football, there should be even more shame on St Francis for being in D2 for basketball. I guess what we're doing here is, outing schools that perpetuate shams in athletics.

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

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Thoughts on day 1 results of the 'Iolani Classic? All the local schools got blown out. Remember last 'Iolani Classic, Kahuku and Kailua both beat out-of-state opponents to advance to the winners' bracket. Do you guys see any local teams winning tomorrow for the second half of games?

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

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So peeps, we got to see some of the top schools in the state go up against the out-of-state teams in the Iolani Classic. For me, this is the showcase to prove you belong at the next level. Unfortunate to say, I did not see anybody (local) show up this year and prove they belong at the next level. Anybody saw something different?

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