2017-18 Basketball Thread

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gopunahou
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2017-18 Basketball Thread

Post by gopunahou »

Since HS Football Fanatic's written some posts on BB (and since my team is a contender), let's start a thread and discuss our thoughts here. Discuss girls basketball here if you wish, too.

Kahuku's got a great chance to repeat with their 6-10 transfer Tolu Smith, but against guys like Cole Arceneaux (who seems to have recovered from a devastating ACL injury last year), Zayne Chong, and the biggest team in the ILH, they won't have as easy a time against us as they did last year. This could be Kamehameha's best team in years since they return almost everybody and benefit from being the 2nd biggest team in the ILH. And also, history favors Iolani, since they've won every year since 1994 that the Winter Olympics have been held. This is a year where we'll see the Winter Olympics.
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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

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My prediction is the ILH is taking the state title this year. It's easy to predict Kahuku will make a run through the OIA and states but outside of Smith, who is the only bonafide D1 player in the state, there is no consistent reliable scorer. The entire starting 5 for the Red Raiders from last season's state championship team is not there anymore and they took 99% of the offensive production with them and this year's Kahuku squad has been barely winning their preseason games against teams they should be beating by double digits. I have to think right now it is looking like a toss-up between Kamehameha, Maryknoll, and Punahou as the best teams in the state. Whatever 2 teams make it out of the ILH are the favorites for states but we're still in pre-season. Things happen.

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

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gopunahou wrote: Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:47 pm Since HS Football Fanatic's written some posts on BB (and since my team is a contender), let's start a thread and discuss our thoughts here. Discuss girls basketball here if you wish, too.

Kahuku's got a great chance to repeat with their 6-10 transfer Tolu Smith, but against guys like Cole Arceneaux (who seems to have recovered from a devastating ACL injury last year), Zayne Chong, and the biggest team in the ILH, they won't have as easy a time against us as they did last year. This could be Kamehameha's best team in years since they return almost everybody and benefit from being the 2nd biggest team in the ILH. And also, history favors Iolani, since they've won every year since 1994 that the Winter Olympics have been held. This is a year where we'll see the Winter Olympics.
@gopunahou: As you may recall from one of my basketball posts on one of the other threads, I'm picking your alma mater to win the state D1 title. I most definitely don't want them to win it, but I suspect they will. Kahuku might win the OIA, but I don't think they can beat Punahou this year. Yes, Kamehameha is scary. I didn't know they had so many returnees. They beat Iolani by 17 last night, so I don't know how much of a contender Iolani will be. I mean, if you can beat Iolani by 17, you are a contender, pardner. I would rank Punahou #1 in the state, with Kamehameha #2. In the OIA, Kalaheo looks pretty good; they beat St Louis by 6 yesterday in a preseason game. Perhaps Kalaheo or Kahuku can knock Kamehameha off from the #2 spot. But at the moment, I would say Punahou is sitting pretty at #1, unless and until another school can knock them off. The way things look right now, Kamehameha just might be the school best able to do that.

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

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HS Football Fanatic wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:26 pm
@gopunahou: As you may recall from one of my basketball posts on one of the other threads, I'm picking your alma mater to win the state D1 title. I most definitely don't want them to win it, but I suspect they will. Kahuku might win the OIA, but I don't think they can beat Punahou this year. Yes, Kamehameha is scary. I didn't know they had so many returnees. They beat Iolani by 17 last night, so I don't know how much of a contender Iolani will be. I mean, if you can beat Iolani by 17, you are a contender, pardner. I would rank Punahou #1 in the state, with Kamehameha #2. In the OIA, Kalaheo looks pretty good; they beat St Louis by 6 yesterday in a preseason game. Perhaps Kalaheo or Kahuku can knock Kamehameha off from the #2 spot. But at the moment, I would say Punahou is sitting pretty at #1, unless and until another school can knock them off. The way things look right now, Kamehameha just might be the school best able to do that.
Punahou is the logical choice. However, Kamehameha and Maryknoll are gonna battle for that top spot and I can see either team being ranked 1 before the season begins. I truly feel that without the 6'9" post in the middle anymore, 'Iolani will take a backseat to those three aforementioned ILH teams. The jury is still out on the OIA. Kapolei will run through the west again and won't see any competition until the playoffs. Kahuku, shockingly, is barely scraping by their opponents in the preseason showing that they need help on offense other than Smith. I don't see Kalaheo going that much farther than they did last year imo they were a better team then than they are now. I realize they beat St. Louis but so did Farrington and they also lost to a Maui team that finished 6th in the Surfrider Classic.

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

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Naz wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:38 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:26 pm
@gopunahou: As you may recall from one of my basketball posts on one of the other threads, I'm picking your alma mater to win the state D1 title. I most definitely don't want them to win it, but I suspect they will. Kahuku might win the OIA, but I don't think they can beat Punahou this year. Yes, Kamehameha is scary. I didn't know they had so many returnees. They beat Iolani by 17 last night, so I don't know how much of a contender Iolani will be. I mean, if you can beat Iolani by 17, you are a contender, pardner. I would rank Punahou #1 in the state, with Kamehameha #2. In the OIA, Kalaheo looks pretty good; they beat St Louis by 6 yesterday in a preseason game. Perhaps Kalaheo or Kahuku can knock Kamehameha off from the #2 spot. But at the moment, I would say Punahou is sitting pretty at #1, unless and until another school can knock them off. The way things look right now, Kamehameha just might be the school best able to do that.
Punahou is the logical choice. However, Kamehameha and Maryknoll are gonna battle for that top spot and I can see either team being ranked 1 before the season begins. I truly feel that without the 6'9" post in the middle anymore, 'Iolani will take a backseat to those three aforementioned ILH teams. The jury is still out on the OIA. Kapolei will run through the west again and won't see any competition until the playoffs. Kahuku, shockingly, is barely scraping by their opponents in the preseason showing that they need help on offense other than Smith. I don't see Kalaheo going that much farther than they did last year imo they were a better team then than they are now. I realize they beat St. Louis but so did Farrington and they also lost to a Maui team that finished 6th in the Surfrider Classic.
@Naz: Agree with just about everything you said. However, I have some questions about Maryknoll. Sure, they've been kicking other schools' butts by double-digits, but their game against McKinley raises some concerns. Yes, they kicked McKinley's butt by 20 points, due primarily to a lopsided first quarter. Other than that, though, McKinley played them just about even for the last three quarters. That's despite the fact that McKinley is shorter and less-experienced than them. I'd like to see how Maryknoll does against Punahou and Kamehameha. That will answer a lot of my questions. As for Kahuku, well, they lost a lot of players to graduation, and one transferred-out, I think. All that's going for them is that they're defending state D1 champs, but if you've lost most of your starters...
Regarding Kalaheo, well, they might have the same problem as Iolani. Both schools are outstanding basketball schools, but tradition doesn't play. It's, who's on the team this year?

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

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Naz wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:38 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:26 pm
@gopunahou: As you may recall from one of my basketball posts on one of the other threads, I'm picking your alma mater to win the state D1 title. I most definitely don't want them to win it, but I suspect they will. Kahuku might win the OIA, but I don't think they can beat Punahou this year. Yes, Kamehameha is scary. I didn't know they had so many returnees. They beat Iolani by 17 last night, so I don't know how much of a contender Iolani will be. I mean, if you can beat Iolani by 17, you are a contender, pardner. I would rank Punahou #1 in the state, with Kamehameha #2. In the OIA, Kalaheo looks pretty good; they beat St Louis by 6 yesterday in a preseason game. Perhaps Kalaheo or Kahuku can knock Kamehameha off from the #2 spot. But at the moment, I would say Punahou is sitting pretty at #1, unless and until another school can knock them off. The way things look right now, Kamehameha just might be the school best able to do that.
Punahou is the logical choice. However, Kamehameha and Maryknoll are gonna battle for that top spot and I can see either team being ranked 1 before the season begins. I truly feel that without the 6'9" post in the middle anymore, 'Iolani will take a backseat to those three aforementioned ILH teams. The jury is still out on the OIA. Kapolei will run through the west again and won't see any competition until the playoffs. Kahuku, shockingly, is barely scraping by their opponents in the preseason showing that they need help on offense other than Smith. I don't see Kalaheo going that much farther than they did last year imo they were a better team then than they are now. I realize they beat St. Louis but so did Farrington and they also lost to a Maui team that finished 6th in the Surfrider Classic.
One problem with them is that Smith is their only player taller than 6-3. That might be enough to win the OIA but not enough to beat Punahou or Kamehameha.
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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

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HS Football Fanatic wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:26 pm
@Naz: Agree with just about everything you said. However, I have some questions about Maryknoll. Sure, they've been kicking other schools' butts by double-digits, but their game against McKinley raises some concerns. Yes, they kicked McKinley's butt by 20 points, due primarily to a lopsided first quarter. Other than that, though, McKinley played them just about even for the last three quarters. That's despite the fact that McKinley is shorter and less-experienced than them. I'd like to see how Maryknoll does against Punahou and Kamehameha. That will answer a lot of my questions. As for Kahuku, well, they lost a lot of players to graduation, and one transferred-out, I think. All that's going for them is that they're defending state D1 champs, but if you've lost most of your starters...
Regarding Kalaheo, well, they might have the same problem as Iolani. Both schools are outstanding basketball schools, but tradition doesn't play. It's, who's on the team this year?
The head-to-head matchups between the 3 ILH schools will definitely determine the order of the top 5 teams in the state. I for one gave Maryknoll some brownie points for what they did to Kapolei (33 point win) who I felt was, along with Punahou, the teams to beat this year because of how many players both teams have returning. I feel whoever has the best showing by the end of either the 'Iolani Classic (Kamehameha, Maryknoll) or the Punahou tournament will give us the number 1 team going into season play as I don't think there will be any preseason head-to-head games amongst them I could be wrong. In regards to Kahuku, other than the fact that they are defending champs they are also the only team in the entire state that boasts a Division 1 player - a 6'10" player at that. I'm just surprised they are only beating their early opponents by one or two possessions. Like gopunahou commented, the next tallest player on the roster stands at 6'3". To me, the 3 top teams who are going through the biggest rebuilds are (in no order): 'Iolani (lost Hogland), Kahuku (lost entire starting 5 w/ 3 Div. 1 players), and Kalaheo (lost Jankovic, Whitlock, Woodby). As of right now, I don't see either of these teams being able to replace what they lost with what they have this season.

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

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gopunahou wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:16 pm
Naz wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:38 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:26 pm
@gopunahou: As you may recall from one of my basketball posts on one of the other threads, I'm picking your alma mater to win the state D1 title. I most definitely don't want them to win it, but I suspect they will. Kahuku might win the OIA, but I don't think they can beat Punahou this year. Yes, Kamehameha is scary. I didn't know they had so many returnees. They beat Iolani by 17 last night, so I don't know how much of a contender Iolani will be. I mean, if you can beat Iolani by 17, you are a contender, pardner. I would rank Punahou #1 in the state, with Kamehameha #2. In the OIA, Kalaheo looks pretty good; they beat St Louis by 6 yesterday in a preseason game. Perhaps Kalaheo or Kahuku can knock Kamehameha off from the #2 spot. But at the moment, I would say Punahou is sitting pretty at #1, unless and until another school can knock them off. The way things look right now, Kamehameha just might be the school best able to do that.
Punahou is the logical choice. However, Kamehameha and Maryknoll are gonna battle for that top spot and I can see either team being ranked 1 before the season begins. I truly feel that without the 6'9" post in the middle anymore, 'Iolani will take a backseat to those three aforementioned ILH teams. The jury is still out on the OIA. Kapolei will run through the west again and won't see any competition until the playoffs. Kahuku, shockingly, is barely scraping by their opponents in the preseason showing that they need help on offense other than Smith. I don't see Kalaheo going that much farther than they did last year imo they were a better team then than they are now. I realize they beat St. Louis but so did Farrington and they also lost to a Maui team that finished 6th in the Surfrider Classic.
One problem with them is that Smith is their only player taller than 6-3. That might be enough to win the OIA but not enough to beat Punahou or Kamehameha.
@gopunahou: Lack of height might not be Kalaheo's only problem. Over the last four decades, what I've noticed about Hawaii prep basketball is that lack of height isn't necessarily a killer. If a school has speed, good ballhandlers, good D, and good perimeter shooting, that school can beat a school with a taller team.

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

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Naz wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:44 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:26 pm
@Naz: Agree with just about everything you said. However, I have some questions about Maryknoll. Sure, they've been kicking other schools' butts by double-digits, but their game against McKinley raises some concerns. Yes, they kicked McKinley's butt by 20 points, due primarily to a lopsided first quarter. Other than that, though, McKinley played them just about even for the last three quarters. That's despite the fact that McKinley is shorter and less-experienced than them. I'd like to see how Maryknoll does against Punahou and Kamehameha. That will answer a lot of my questions. As for Kahuku, well, they lost a lot of players to graduation, and one transferred-out, I think. All that's going for them is that they're defending state D1 champs, but if you've lost most of your starters...
Regarding Kalaheo, well, they might have the same problem as Iolani. Both schools are outstanding basketball schools, but tradition doesn't play. It's, who's on the team this year?
The head-to-head matchups between the 3 ILH schools will definitely determine the order of the top 5 teams in the state. I for one gave Maryknoll some brownie points for what they did to Kapolei (33 point win) who I felt was, along with Punahou, the teams to beat this year because of how many players both teams have returning. I feel whoever has the best showing by the end of either the 'Iolani Classic (Kamehameha, Maryknoll) or the Punahou tournament will give us the number 1 team going into season play as I don't think there will be any preseason head-to-head games amongst them I could be wrong. In regards to Kahuku, other than the fact that they are defending champs they are also the only team in the entire state that boasts a Division 1 player - a 6'10" player at that. I'm just surprised they are only beating their early opponents by one or two possessions. Like gopunahou commented, the next tallest player on the roster stands at 6'3". To me, the 3 top teams who are going through the biggest rebuilds are (in no order): 'Iolani (lost Hogland), Kahuku (lost entire starting 5 w/ 3 Div. 1 players), and Kalaheo (lost Jankovic, Whitlock, Woodby). As of right now, I don't see either of these teams being able to replace what they lost with what they have this season.
@Naz: Good points. Handicapping Kapolei can be problematic because it's not just how many returnees a school has; it's how good those returnees are. I'm not saying that Kapolei sucks, but the question then arises: How did they get blown-out so badly by Maryknoll if they have so many returnees? Also: Would you say that Kamehameha has a D1 player in Kobe Young? He's "only" 6'6", but he scores choke points and he can dunk.

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

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Maryknoll played McKinley last night, pre-season. I don't know if Maryknoll's D1 or D2 played, but they beat McKinley by only 5 points, 48-43. Something tells me that that was Maryknoll's D2 team. Why would the D1 team play McKinley in preseason again? They played just two weeks ago.

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

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HS Football Fanatic wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:26 pm
@Naz: Good points. Handicapping Kapolei can be problematic because it's not just how many returnees a school has; it's how good those returnees are. I'm not saying that Kapolei sucks, but the question then arises: How did they get blown-out so badly by Maryknoll if they have so many returnees? Also: Would you say that Kamehameha has a D1 player in Kobe Young? He's "only" 6'6", but he scores choke points and he can dunk.
All I know is that Smith from Kahuku remains until now the only player to have signed a LOI to play D1 with Western Kentucky. Last season was an anomaly in regards to the fact that 4 players last season ended up with D1 offers: Avea (UH), Fotu (St. Mary's), Hogland (Portland), and Villa (UH). Normally, Hawai'i prep hoops produces a D1 prospect every 5-10 years. We had four in one season. I can't tell you how many times I've heard or overheard conversations at games this pre-season amongst coaches/parents/spectators that so and so in the state have D1 offers. Not just interest, OFFERS. I want to pick my words carefully because I don't want to downplay any high schooler's accomplishments and I do want to see kids from Hawai'i go on to play at the next level. However, I would be kind of surprised to find out any D1 college coaches offered anybody this season. Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of athleticism and talent and I think we may see a slew of players at the D2/Juco/NAIA/D3 level from this season, but I don't see a D1 prospect. I don't feel being 6'6", scoring choke and dunking automatically equals D1 schollie - in fact at 6'6" you should be dunking everything. Case in point: Chance Kalaugher from Kaiser a few seasons ago. He was putting up numbers, dunked everything, was 6'6" with a college-ready body, and was the D2 player of the year. He is currently at Saddleback Junior College and averages 2 ppg. I am interested to see how Young performs against out-of-state competition at the 'Iolani Classic. That will, to me, be the best measure of his skill-level and give a glimpse of where he's at among his out-of-state peers.

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

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Naz wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:21 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:26 pm
@Naz: Good points. Handicapping Kapolei can be problematic because it's not just how many returnees a school has; it's how good those returnees are. I'm not saying that Kapolei sucks, but the question then arises: How did they get blown-out so badly by Maryknoll if they have so many returnees? Also: Would you say that Kamehameha has a D1 player in Kobe Young? He's "only" 6'6", but he scores choke points and he can dunk.
All I know is that Smith from Kahuku remains until now the only player to have signed a LOI to play D1 with Western Kentucky. Last season was an anomaly in regards to the fact that 4 players last season ended up with D1 offers: Avea (UH), Fotu (St. Mary's), Hogland (Portland), and Villa (UH). Normally, Hawai'i prep hoops produces a D1 prospect every 5-10 years. We had four in one season. I can't tell you how many times I've heard or overheard conversations at games this pre-season amongst coaches/parents/spectators that so and so in the state have D1 offers. Not just interest, OFFERS. I want to pick my words carefully because I don't want to downplay any high schooler's accomplishments and I do want to see kids from Hawai'i go on to play at the next level. However, I would be kind of surprised to find out any D1 college coaches offered anybody this season. Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of athleticism and talent and I think we may see a slew of players at the D2/Juco/NAIA/D3 level from this season, but I don't see a D1 prospect. I don't feel being 6'6", scoring choke and dunking automatically equals D1 schollie - in fact at 6'6" you should be dunking everything. Case in point: Chance Kalaugher from Kaiser a few seasons ago. He was putting up numbers, dunked everything, was 6'6" with a college-ready body, and was the D2 player of the year. He is currently at Saddleback Junior College and averages 2 ppg. I am interested to see how Young performs against out-of-state competition at the 'Iolani Classic. That will, to me, be the best measure of his skill-level and give a glimpse of where he's at among his out-of-state peers.
@Naz: Excellent points. I have to keep reminding myself that basketball is one sport in which Hawaii seems to be a step behind the mainland, in terms of player material. As I had mentioned in a previous post, I've seen Hawaii high schools kick butt locally with players who aren't necessarily super-long, but are fast, play good D, and are good perimeter shooters. But when you match them against those strong, long mainland schools--such as in the Iolani Classic--they often get their butts kicked. I hope Punahou and Kamehameha are in the Iolani Classic, because those strong, long mainland schools are something of a measuring-stick nationally. I'm a little disappointed to hear about Kalaugher; you'd think he'd be doing a little better than 2-ppg at a JC. Perhaps he should have gone to UH; as a UH alumnus, I prefer that he did.

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

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HS Football Fanatic wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:26 pm
@Naz: Excellent points. I have to keep reminding myself that basketball is one sport in which Hawaii seems to be a step behind the mainland, in terms of player material. As I had mentioned in a previous post, I've seen Hawaii high schools kick butt locally with players who aren't necessarily super-long, but are fast, play good D, and are good perimeter shooters. But when you match them against those strong, long mainland schools--such as in the Iolani Classic--they often get their butts kicked. I hope Punahou and Kamehameha are in the Iolani Classic, because those strong, long mainland schools are something of a measuring-stick nationally. I'm a little disappointed to hear about Kalaugher; you'd think he'd be doing a little better than 2-ppg at a JC. Perhaps he should have gone to UH; as a UH alumnus, I prefer that he did.
Kamehameha, 'Iolani, and Maryknoll are the only ILH teams in the 'Iolani Classic. I saw a few games last tournament and watched Kailua and Kahuku beat their 1st round out-of-state opponents and then saw Kahuku go onto beat 2 more out-of-state teams to finish 3rd. That was impressive. Punahou, on the other hand, is not in this year but they have their own tournament with out-of-state teams but they don't bring in nearly the kind of big name teams like the 'Iolani Classic does. Also, you were correct about Maryknoll playing McKinley a 2nd time and only winning by 5. I really don't know how that happened after they beat them by 18.

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

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Naz wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:26 pm
HS Football Fanatic wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:26 pm
@Naz: Excellent points. I have to keep reminding myself that basketball is one sport in which Hawaii seems to be a step behind the mainland, in terms of player material. As I had mentioned in a previous post, I've seen Hawaii high schools kick butt locally with players who aren't necessarily super-long, but are fast, play good D, and are good perimeter shooters. But when you match them against those strong, long mainland schools--such as in the Iolani Classic--they often get their butts kicked. I hope Punahou and Kamehameha are in the Iolani Classic, because those strong, long mainland schools are something of a measuring-stick nationally. I'm a little disappointed to hear about Kalaugher; you'd think he'd be doing a little better than 2-ppg at a JC. Perhaps he should have gone to UH; as a UH alumnus, I prefer that he did.
Kamehameha, 'Iolani, and Maryknoll are the only ILH teams in the 'Iolani Classic. I saw a few games last tournament and watched Kailua and Kahuku beat their 1st round out-of-state opponents and then saw Kahuku go onto beat 2 more out-of-state teams to finish 3rd. That was impressive. Punahou, on the other hand, is not in this year but they have their own tournament with out-of-state teams but they don't bring in nearly the kind of big name teams like the 'Iolani Classic does. Also, you were correct about Maryknoll playing McKinley a 2nd time and only winning by 5. I really don't know how that happened after they beat them by 18.
@Naz: But most of the ILH D1 schools have two vars teams; I guess you could call them the "A" and "AA." I don't know exactly how the ILH refers to them. Based on the score differences, again, I'm pretty sure it's Maryknoll's "AA" (or lower) vars team that played McKinley last night. That would explain why the score was so much closer. Also, again: Why would Maryknoll's A (or higher) vars team play McKinley again, when they played just two weeks ago or so?

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Re: 2017-18 Basketball Thread

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HS Football Fanatic wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:26 pm
@Naz: But most of the ILH D1 schools have two vars teams; I guess you could call them the "A" and "AA." I don't know exactly how the ILH refers to them. Based on the score differences, again, I'm pretty sure it's Maryknoll's "AA" (or lower) vars team that played McKinley last night. That would explain why the score was so much closer. Also, again: Why would Maryknoll's A (or higher) vars team play McKinley again, when they played just two weeks ago or so?
It was, in fact, Maryknoll's Varsity D1 team that played McKinley a second time. ScoringLive's boxscore confirmed this. Check the link: https://scoringlive.com/boysbasketball/ ... hp?team=MS

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