Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)
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Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)
I have no problem with having to wrestle what's shown on your birth certificate. My issue would be with the testosterone treatment. Now I'm no expert on the subject, but I assume the testosterone gives the wrestler an advantage. If it does not, than I don't see a problem.
If testosterone does give an advantage then the wrestler needs to choose between transition or wrestling. My .02
This actually hits pretty close to home, as one of our Team Hawaii girls lost against this wrestler at Fargo this past summer. Not sure if testosterone was involved then, but from what I heard, under arm and leg hairs were very evident.
If testosterone does give an advantage then the wrestler needs to choose between transition or wrestling. My .02
This actually hits pretty close to home, as one of our Team Hawaii girls lost against this wrestler at Fargo this past summer. Not sure if testosterone was involved then, but from what I heard, under arm and leg hairs were very evident.
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Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)
Ramashack wrote:I have no problem with having to wrestle what's shown on your birth certificate. My issue would be with the testosterone treatment. Now I'm no expert on the subject, but I assume the testosterone gives the wrestler an advantage. If it does not, than I don't see a problem.
If testosterone does give an advantage then the wrestler needs to choose between transition or wrestling. My .02
This actually hits pretty close to home, as one of our Team Hawaii girls lost against this wrestler at Fargo this past summer. Not sure if testosterone was involved then, but from what I heard, under arm and leg hairs were very evident.
Maybe the girl was "European"
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Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)
Ramashack wrote:I have no problem with having to wrestle what's shown on your birth certificate. My issue would be with the testosterone treatment. Now I'm no expert on the subject, but I assume the testosterone gives the wrestler an advantage. If it does not, than I don't see a problem.
If testosterone does give an advantage then the wrestler needs to choose between transition or wrestling. My .02
This actually hits pretty close to home, as one of our Team Hawaii girls lost against this wrestler at Fargo this past summer. Not sure if testosterone was involved then, but from what I heard, under arm and leg hairs were very evident.
If you're born with a penis you are a boy and you will wrestle with boys. If you're born with a vagina you are a girl and will wrestle with girls. I would not allow this boy to cross pollinate with the girls, tough titty.
When I discuss this among my liberal friends I hear the same argument that "girls are allowed to wrestle boys, so why not boys with girls?" My response is that there needs to be a lot more women's programs and
it's physically unfair for girls to have to wrestle boys. It's that simple...
If we took the girls in our P4P survey, Alo, Peralta, Gooman, Navarro, Corbett, and put them against the boys champions in their weight class they would get beaten. And if the boys got pissed, these girls would get hurt.
I'm not sure how these moronic state officials come to the conclusion that this is the answer. Maybe it's the politically correct idiotic brainwashing mindset being pressed on them or they just don't have a damn clue.
If this comes to pass and we get cursed with this problem in Hawaii, I hope we'll have the common sense to just say NO.
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Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)
You need to read the article and other press on this. What you advocate IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED. The controversial Texas State champ was born a girl (I think), and was transitioning to a boy. Texas made her wrestle in the girls' division.wrestling808 wrote:Ramashack wrote:I have no problem with having to wrestle what's shown on your birth certificate. My issue would be with the testosterone treatment. Now I'm no expert on the subject, but I assume the testosterone gives the wrestler an advantage. If it does not, than I don't see a problem.
If testosterone does give an advantage then the wrestler needs to choose between transition or wrestling. My .02
This actually hits pretty close to home, as one of our Team Hawaii girls lost against this wrestler at Fargo this past summer. Not sure if testosterone was involved then, but from what I heard, under arm and leg hairs were very evident.
If you're born with a penis you are a boy and you will wrestle with boys. If you're born with a vagina you are a girl and will wrestle with girls. I would not allow this boy to cross pollinate with the girls, tough titty.
When I discuss this among my liberal friends I hear the same argument that "girls are allowed to wrestle boys, so why not boys with girls?" My response is that there needs to be a lot more women's programs and
it's physically unfair for girls to have to wrestle boys. It's that simple...
If we took the girls in our P4P survey, Alo, Peralta, Gooman, Navarro, Corbett, and put them against the boys champions in their weight class they would get beaten. And if the boys got pissed, these girls would get hurt.
I'm not sure how these moronic state officials come to the conclusion that this is the answer. Maybe it's the politically correct idiotic brainwashing mindset being pressed on them or they just don't have a damn clue.
If this comes to pass and we get cursed with this problem in Hawaii, I hope we'll have the common sense to just say NO.
So, your argument is that Texas was correct in what it allowed to happen.
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Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)
Hey twonoexcuses, thanks for the clarification. I gotta stop posting when I'm drunk.twnoexcuses wrote:You need to read the article and other press on this. What you advocate IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED. The controversial Texas State champ was born a girl (I think), and was transitioning to a boy. Texas made her wrestle in the girls' division.wrestling808 wrote:Ramashack wrote:I have no problem with having to wrestle what's shown on your birth certificate. My issue would be with the testosterone treatment. Now I'm no expert on the subject, but I assume the testosterone gives the wrestler an advantage. If it does not, than I don't see a problem.
If testosterone does give an advantage then the wrestler needs to choose between transition or wrestling. My .02
This actually hits pretty close to home, as one of our Team Hawaii girls lost against this wrestler at Fargo this past summer. Not sure if testosterone was involved then, but from what I heard, under arm and leg hairs were very evident.
If you're born with a penis you are a boy and you will wrestle with boys. If you're born with a vagina you are a girl and will wrestle with girls. I would not allow this boy to cross pollinate with the girls, tough titty.
When I discuss this among my liberal friends I hear the same argument that "girls are allowed to wrestle boys, so why not boys with girls?" My response is that there needs to be a lot more women's programs and
it's physically unfair for girls to have to wrestle boys. It's that simple...
If we took the girls in our P4P survey, Alo, Peralta, Gooman, Navarro, Corbett, and put them against the boys champions in their weight class they would get beaten. And if the boys got pissed, these girls would get hurt.
I'm not sure how these moronic state officials come to the conclusion that this is the answer. Maybe it's the politically correct idiotic brainwashing mindset being pressed on them or they just don't have a damn clue.
If this comes to pass and we get cursed with this problem in Hawaii, I hope we'll have the common sense to just say NO.
So, your argument is that Texas was correct in what it allowed to happen.
Now that I think about it this is even worse, I've seen girls on testosterone treatments, they get freakishly strong. I'll look for the video I watched a few years back that showed a girl about 125 pounds deadlifting 350 pounds. This wrestler needs to banned straight up.
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Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)
from a CNN article:
>>Dr. Brandon Mines, assistant professor at Emory University's Department of Orthopedics, said the argument has merit.
>>"Testosterone and anabolic steroids are in the same family and have the effect of increasing muscle mass and strength gains," Mines said.
>>The UIL's rules prohibit illegal steroid use, with the exception of those prescribed by doctors for "valid medical purposes." Beggs use of testosterone has not barred him from the competition.
This is the part that I have a problem with....use of testosterone and still able to compete girls.
And how would all of this be handled locally? Ok for any competitor to undergo testosterone treatment, and compete, as long as they find a doctor willing to validate it? Not sure we should go down that path.
On second thought, wouldn't really matter because no one is ever tested. Now you require the two wrestlers in the finals to submit urine samples, maybe you can say you are addressing the problem.
>>Dr. Brandon Mines, assistant professor at Emory University's Department of Orthopedics, said the argument has merit.
>>"Testosterone and anabolic steroids are in the same family and have the effect of increasing muscle mass and strength gains," Mines said.
>>The UIL's rules prohibit illegal steroid use, with the exception of those prescribed by doctors for "valid medical purposes." Beggs use of testosterone has not barred him from the competition.
This is the part that I have a problem with....use of testosterone and still able to compete girls.
And how would all of this be handled locally? Ok for any competitor to undergo testosterone treatment, and compete, as long as they find a doctor willing to validate it? Not sure we should go down that path.
On second thought, wouldn't really matter because no one is ever tested. Now you require the two wrestlers in the finals to submit urine samples, maybe you can say you are addressing the problem.
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Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)
The problem/concern here is, I'm not sure what the argument is about.
Unfair advantage?
Equality?
Leveling the playing field?
The sanctity of gender?
Disagreement/opposition/disgust(?) with transgender(s)?
Drugs/enhancements?
RELIGION, perhaps?
One of the undercurrents in all the stories I read and watched, was that the wrestler him/herself seemed to be readily embraced by his/her peers, and in particular, fellow wrestlers. The lawsuits and catcalls from the crowd were being fronted by adults.
I think the generation to which high school wrestling actually belongs (high schoolers) will be the ones to define the parameters and handling of this issue. I suspect they'll do a better job than we can. . . We elected Trump, after all. . . .
Unfair advantage?
Equality?
Leveling the playing field?
The sanctity of gender?
Disagreement/opposition/disgust(?) with transgender(s)?
Drugs/enhancements?
RELIGION, perhaps?
One of the undercurrents in all the stories I read and watched, was that the wrestler him/herself seemed to be readily embraced by his/her peers, and in particular, fellow wrestlers. The lawsuits and catcalls from the crowd were being fronted by adults.
I think the generation to which high school wrestling actually belongs (high schoolers) will be the ones to define the parameters and handling of this issue. I suspect they'll do a better job than we can. . . We elected Trump, after all. . . .
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Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)
One last thought. I tried thinking about being at the HHSAA Chevron Tournament at sometime in the future, sitting next to or near someone who was booing a kid in the same situation as that Beggs kid.
First, I don't think that would happen at our State Tournament, if the situation arose. Whatever people's views on the issue, I just think our people would respect a kid in that situation enough not to boo like the clowns in Texas.
IF there were booing, I think our crowd would shut it up either assertively, or through passive ostracization.
I think protestors from the "right" who might show up to "protest" to make an example out of such a kid would meet some people in the stands they might not want to.
I think I'm correct in those predictions (and definitely hope with all my might I am). And, it's one of the reasons I like living here.
First, I don't think that would happen at our State Tournament, if the situation arose. Whatever people's views on the issue, I just think our people would respect a kid in that situation enough not to boo like the clowns in Texas.
IF there were booing, I think our crowd would shut it up either assertively, or through passive ostracization.
I think protestors from the "right" who might show up to "protest" to make an example out of such a kid would meet some people in the stands they might not want to.
I think I'm correct in those predictions (and definitely hope with all my might I am). And, it's one of the reasons I like living here.
Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)
In the OIA finals during the Pagarayan vs. Garcia match I read a post here that said the crowd was saying "take him out" or something like that, and this was a wrestler with a sprained ankle. Would it be fair to say that someone like Beggs would get the full wrath of the audience? They may even need to be escorted to and from the tournaments for safety.twnoexcuses wrote:One last thought. I tried thinking about being at the HHSAA Chevron Tournament at sometime in the future, sitting next to or near someone who was booing a kid in the same situation as that Beggs kid.
First, I don't think that would happen at our State Tournament, if the situation arose. Whatever people's views on the issue, I just think our people would respect a kid in that situation enough not to boo like the clowns in Texas.
IF there were booing, I think our crowd would shut it up either assertively, or through passive ostracization.
I think protestors from the "right" who might show up to "protest" to make an example out of such a kid would meet some people in the stands they might not want to.
I think I'm correct in those predictions (and definitely hope with all my might I am). And, it's one of the reasons I like living here.
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Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)
Testosterone treatments should an automatic disqualifier irrespective of gender.
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Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)
Regardless of the testosterone its just wrong.. until they come up with something scientific proof that makes it a matter of fact, than I will buy in.kauwildman wrote:Testosterone treatments should an automatic disqualifier irrespective of gender.
Males can just say hey I feel like a woman and take away millions of opportunities for girls which was put in place for title 9.
Imagine all the stolen scholarships in all sports it would be a total joke, with all guys saying today i feel like a transgender. In support of women own business they are allowed massive benefits and tax breaks, what happens when men start taking them away based on a feeling.
Not good at all...
Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)
Misake resigns as Campbell head coach. Coach Santos takes over top position. Happened on Monday.
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Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)
Is this confirmed? I wonder what the reason would be for a resignation?Kama wrote:Misake resigns as Campbell head coach. Coach Santos takes over top position. Happened on Monday.
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Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)
Amosa fired in football, Misaki in wrestling.clappingforyou wrote:Is this confirmed? I wonder what the reason would be for a resignation?Kama wrote:Misake resigns as Campbell head coach. Coach Santos takes over top position. Happened on Monday.
Counting chickens that never appear, sitting at the edge of the water thirsty as hell, walking around glad handing like you "won" when you didn't and don't. . . for three years in a row. . . Campbell AD is gonna retire soon.
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Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)
clappingforyou wrote:Is this confirmed? I wonder what the reason would be for a resignation?Kama wrote:Misake resigns as Campbell head coach. Coach Santos takes over top position. Happened on Monday.
Misaki was sinking the ship...he left nothing in the tank. Really had no choice but to retire to give the impression he was a great coach
I've said it for a while but never thought he would bail to keep his rep alive