Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)

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Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)

Post by FlyingSquirrel808 »

twnoexcuses wrote:I disagree with changing the uniform at this point.

Anyone who remembers way back when star wrestlers like Johnny Barend and Ripper Collins were menacing Hawaii wrestling, knows that loose shorts are good hiding places for contraband.

Imagine a match where the monopoly man makes several visits to the scorer's table to amaze the crowd with his magnificence. During one of those protracted visits, there is no doubt brass knuckles, shivs, even pencils could be retrieved and used when action started again.

The conditions necessary for uniform changes to be effective are obvious. In order for them to happen and "work", the monopoly man shouldn't be allowed to ref anymore.
Just to put this issue to rest, Monopoly Man retired as in no longer reffing.

As for the change in uniforms, I think it is a definite issue to be discussed. I personally have no problem with singlets, but it sounds like the article above is simply calling for an alternate uniform OPTION, meaning that teams could still use singlets if they want, but compression shorts and shirts would also be an available choice. The best comparison from the article is how some basketball teams wear the traditional tank top jersey while some opt for the compression short sleeve t shirt. Having options can only make more people interested. It's like if you have a restaurant, you might get some customers if you serve kick okole burgers, but you might get even more customers if you also serve gourmet salads for those people who don't eat meat (for whatever crazy reason).

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Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)

Post by twnoexcuses »

FlyingSquirrel808 wrote:
twnoexcuses wrote:I disagree with changing the uniform at this point.

Anyone who remembers way back when star wrestlers like Johnny Barend and Ripper Collins were menacing Hawaii wrestling, knows that loose shorts are good hiding places for contraband.

Imagine a match where the monopoly man makes several visits to the scorer's table to amaze the crowd with his magnificence. During one of those protracted visits, there is no doubt brass knuckles, shivs, even pencils could be retrieved and used when action started again.

The conditions necessary for uniform changes to be effective are obvious. In order for them to happen and "work", the monopoly man shouldn't be allowed to ref anymore.
Just to put this issue to rest, Monopoly Man retired as in no longer reffing.

As for the change in uniforms, I think it is a definite issue to be discussed. I personally have no problem with singlets, but it sounds like the article above is simply calling for an alternate uniform OPTION, meaning that teams could still use singlets if they want, but compression shorts and shirts would also be an available choice. The best comparison from the article is how some basketball teams wear the traditional tank top jersey while some opt for the compression short sleeve t shirt. Having options can only make more people interested. It's like if you have a restaurant, you might get some customers if you serve kick okole burgers, but you might get even more customers if you also serve gourmet salads for those people who don't eat meat (for whatever crazy reason).
I think it's too risky to presume or feel confident at this point. Different uniforms should wait until the ink dries.

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Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)

Post by FlyingSquirrel808 »

twnoexcuses wrote:
FlyingSquirrel808 wrote:
twnoexcuses wrote:I disagree with changing the uniform at this point.

Anyone who remembers way back when star wrestlers like Johnny Barend and Ripper Collins were menacing Hawaii wrestling, knows that loose shorts are good hiding places for contraband.

Imagine a match where the monopoly man makes several visits to the scorer's table to amaze the crowd with his magnificence. During one of those protracted visits, there is no doubt brass knuckles, shivs, even pencils could be retrieved and used when action started again.

The conditions necessary for uniform changes to be effective are obvious. In order for them to happen and "work", the monopoly man shouldn't be allowed to ref anymore.
Just to put this issue to rest, Monopoly Man retired as in no longer reffing.

As for the change in uniforms, I think it is a definite issue to be discussed. I personally have no problem with singlets, but it sounds like the article above is simply calling for an alternate uniform OPTION, meaning that teams could still use singlets if they want, but compression shorts and shirts would also be an available choice. The best comparison from the article is how some basketball teams wear the traditional tank top jersey while some opt for the compression short sleeve t shirt. Having options can only make more people interested. It's like if you have a restaurant, you might get some customers if you serve kick okole burgers, but you might get even more customers if you also serve gourmet salads for those people who don't eat meat (for whatever crazy reason).
I think it's too risky to presume or feel confident at this point. Different uniforms should wait until the ink dries.
LOL, fair enough. We don't need him pulling a Michael Jordan on us and coming out of retirement.

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Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)

Post by Kama »

As controversial as monopoly man is there are other refs that make him look really good.

I don't feel we'll ever get around the fact that there are always going to be bad refs in Hawaii. On the mainland refs are
voted into major tournaments by the coaches. If the coaches don't vote you in, you're not going to work. If we did that here
there would be only 3 or 4 refs remaining.

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Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)

Post by ringworm »

ringworm wrote:What happened with Abe 122 and Pineda Abaya? Seen what looked to be a takedown by Abe late in ot just after Abe escaped from the bottom. Ref signals it outside but from our view it looked inside. Abe lost by 1 point. If that takedown scored Abe would have won the title. The fans booed. Prepworld made mention of it today.

Gooman got the girls performance of the night. She beat a very dominant wrestler in Navarro who steamrolled everyone for the last 2 seasons. Even with that loss Lahaina Luna showed up and cleaned house on the girls side. With a squad so deep and young I predict they're gonna be on top again next year.
Peralta looked injured slowed down almost stalling at some points but being the veteran she is she pull it off.
From Prep World

The toughest loss in the championship round belonged to Pearl City’s Mikayla Abe, who fell to Czarina Pineda-Abaya 2-1 on a controversial non-call that earned the Falcon her school’s first girls championship since Megan Yamaguchi in 2010. Abe finishes the season at No. 17, right behind Pineda-Abaya even though she holds a 2-1 edge in major tournaments this year.

Abe’s loss was even more bitter considering it was the third time in her career she went to the final and fell short. Only Kamehameha’s Jasmine Cockett, who fell in the final in 2002-04 to three different opponents, knows the depths of Abe’s disappointment.

So the referee makes a mistake and cost this player the state title. Do the refs get reviewed by anyone or is this just something that happens? What about the second ref that's in there too, does he second guess it or maybe its not protocal to question it? I ask this because the girl should have been the state champion if not for this mistake. I understand the refs are there to do the best they can but when you cost a player a state title it raises questions on how can they do a better job. There is always room for improvement.

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Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)

Post by FlyingSquirrel808 »

ringworm wrote:
ringworm wrote:What happened with Abe 122 and Pineda Abaya? Seen what looked to be a takedown by Abe late in ot just after Abe escaped from the bottom. Ref signals it outside but from our view it looked inside. Abe lost by 1 point. If that takedown scored Abe would have won the title. The fans booed. Prepworld made mention of it today.

Gooman got the girls performance of the night. She beat a very dominant wrestler in Navarro who steamrolled everyone for the last 2 seasons. Even with that loss Lahaina Luna showed up and cleaned house on the girls side. With a squad so deep and young I predict they're gonna be on top again next year.
Peralta looked injured slowed down almost stalling at some points but being the veteran she is she pull it off.
From Prep World

The toughest loss in the championship round belonged to Pearl City’s Mikayla Abe, who fell to Czarina Pineda-Abaya 2-1 on a controversial non-call that earned the Falcon her school’s first girls championship since Megan Yamaguchi in 2010. Abe finishes the season at No. 17, right behind Pineda-Abaya even though she holds a 2-1 edge in major tournaments this year.

Abe’s loss was even more bitter considering it was the third time in her career she went to the final and fell short. Only Kamehameha’s Jasmine Cockett, who fell in the final in 2002-04 to three different opponents, knows the depths of Abe’s disappointment.

So the referee makes a mistake and cost this player the state title. Do the refs get reviewed by anyone or is this just something that happens? What about the second ref that's in there too, does he second guess it or maybe its not protocal to question it? I ask this because the girl should have been the state champion if not for this mistake. I understand the refs are there to do the best they can but when you cost a player a state title it raises questions on how can they do a better job. There is always room for improvement.
While the call was controversial, you never know what would have happened if the wrestling continued. The referee blew his whistle to signify out of bounds, so wrestling stopped. Pineda-Abaya could have scrambled out of the situation, or maybe not, you never know. Also, if I'm not mistaken, that happened with about 15 seconds left in that overtime period, so Pineda-Abaya still would have had time to get an escape to tie it back up. It was definitely a borderline call, but that was arguably one of the best refs (Akeo) that we have in the state reffing that match, so while not every call will be made perfectly in your wrestler's favor, I have a lot of confidence in many of the refs (especially that one) to make their best judgment. On top of that, there was no argument from Pearl City's coach to challenge the call, so maybe he actually saw it the same way as the refs.

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Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)

Post by twnoexcuses »

Kama wrote:As controversial as monopoly man is there are other refs that make him look really good.

I don't feel we'll ever get around the fact that there are always going to be bad refs in Hawaii. On the mainland refs are
voted into major tournaments by the coaches. If the coaches don't vote you in, you're not going to work. If we did that here
there would be only 3 or 4 refs remaining.
That's why was good they had the 3 ALWAYS on the mat during the finals. Was hard work for them, but I certainly appreciated it as a fan and spectator.

I think the call ringworn is talking about was bang-bang, and there was a discussion afterward. Of course couldn't hear what was discussed, but I think the second ref confirmed it was out then takedown.

But, right or wrong, it was at least close and questionable, instead of outright wrong for all to see.

The finals refs really did a good job this year (as everyone who's watched for some time pretty much knew it would be). They were low key, mindful that it was the kids' time (and not their's), and just quietly competent. Even some of the "seconds" who have historically been the source of frustration had their games elevated by what appeared to be the force of mentoring.

Don't know what the impetus was for the change this year, but it was good. The only concern is that the three have been there a really long time, and you have to wonder how many more years they have to give.

Is there enough time to get a new crop up to speed? At least so that there are 3 more?

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Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)

Post by twnoexcuses »

FlyingSquirrel808 wrote:
twnoexcuses wrote:
FlyingSquirrel808 wrote:
Just to put this issue to rest, Monopoly Man retired as in no longer reffing.

As for the change in uniforms, I think it is a definite issue to be discussed. I personally have no problem with singlets, but it sounds like the article above is simply calling for an alternate uniform OPTION, meaning that teams could still use singlets if they want, but compression shorts and shirts would also be an available choice. The best comparison from the article is how some basketball teams wear the traditional tank top jersey while some opt for the compression short sleeve t shirt. Having options can only make more people interested. It's like if you have a restaurant, you might get some customers if you serve kick okole burgers, but you might get even more customers if you also serve gourmet salads for those people who don't eat meat (for whatever crazy reason).
I think it's too risky to presume or feel confident at this point. Different uniforms should wait until the ink dries.
LOL, fair enough. We don't need him pulling a Michael Jordan on us and coming out of retirement.
Not possible for him to pull a "Michael Jordan". Jordan came back to continue greatness.

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Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)

Post by OldManJenkins »

Kama wrote:As controversial as monopoly man is there are other refs that make him look really good.

I don't feel we'll ever get around the fact that there are always going to be bad refs in Hawaii. On the mainland refs are
voted into major tournaments by the coaches. If the coaches don't vote you in, you're not going to work. If we did that here
there would be only 3 or 4 refs remaining.
It is my understanding that it does state in the NFHS rule book that the refs need to be voted on by the coaches to participate in the championships. A rule that has been overlooked forever. I have not had the opportunity to read the latest but it used to be in there.

Monopoly man is actually only semi-retired, he suffered some injury and took himself off the mats but he is still an advisory ref that oversees the others. He may come back on the mats if he feels that his injury doesn't hinder his ability to ref. Stay tuned!
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Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)

Post by OldManJenkins »

Kama wrote:Nice breakdown of States sportcourt! \:D/

We were discussing changing the singlet last week and here is the USA wrestling article that discussed that.

Imagine this: A youth wrestler heads to a Ohio State University wrestling match and sees Kyle Snyder competing in a wrestling uniform. After the match, his dad takes him to an apparel stand, and he buys a youth Kyle Snyder replica uniform top. The next week, he wears it at school. A classmate then asks "Who is Kyle Snyder?" The youth wrestler responds: "He's an Olympic champion college wrestler."

Suddenly the two are talking about Snyder, and wrestling. Imagine a world where today's youth are walking around wearing replica uniform tops of their favorite wrestler. A young girl in a replica USA Helen Maroulis uniform. A Jordan Burroughs uniform. A J'den Cox replica top. Think about people talking at the NCAA tournament in 15 years: "Check out that guy wearing an old school Penn State Nico Megaludis jersey."

All of that already happens today with NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, WNBA, and MLS jerseys/uniform tops. Go out to the park, the mall, the grocery store, or the airport—almost anywhere and you’ll see boys, girls, men, and women showing off their support for their favorite teams and players.

Wrestling fans are passionate about their favorite teams and wrestlers too. But they have no easy way to show it in public.

Why not?

"We need to help the sport of wrestling promote what we are passionate about," says Tony Black, Director of State Services for USA Wrestling. "We need to allow our fans to be passionate and promote the sport. Why not do it through some sort of wrestling jersey or uniform top?”

There's more to it though, says Black, echoing other wrestling leaders. While switching over to wrestling two-piece uniforms may seem like it only promotes apparel companies, there a more fundamental reason wrestling needs to make a uniform change: The singlet is hurting wrestling. Traditionalists don't like to hear it. But it's true.

"The majority of parents I talk to who are new to the sport are not super excited about having their child wear a singlet," Black says. "In fact, some won't join the sport or are hesitant because they don't want to wear the singlet."

Last year, 8,500 coaches responded to a National Wrestling Coaches Association survey. In that survey, coaches were "overwhelmingly in support" of moving to an alternative uniform option, citing the importance of retaining wrestlers and growing wrestling, said Mike Moyer, Executive Director of the National Wrestling Coaches Association.

"What we found was that the singlet was definitely a barrier to entry into the sport," Moyer explains. "This was especially an issue with first-year wrestlers, and at the middle school level.”

Moyer is all for an alternative option, and feels it would help move the sport forward. "We've heard enough perspective from coaches across the country that they absolutely believe an alternative option would enhance recruitment and retention."

It’s important to recognize that the wrestling uniform has evolved over the years. In the 1930s and 1940s wrestlers often wore tights and nothing on top. Concerns about "revealing too much" helped fuel NCAA rule changes in the mid-1960s that ultimately led to adopting singlets later in that decade. An article by wrestling historian Mark Palmer about the history of the wrestling uniform notes: "The 1963 NCAA Wrestling Championships at Kent State University in Ohio was the last to allow wrestlers to compete stripped to the waist."

Danny Struck, head coach Indiana's Jeffersonville High School, says "we need to knock out reasons that kids come up with not to wrestle." He adds: "Let’s be honest, singlets aren't flattering.”

This is especially true for that youth or teen wrestler who is still maturing or who is concerned with their body image. "We recruit 260-pound football players to wrestle and they get in that singlet for the first time…and they don’t want do it,” Struck says.

Wrestling traditionalists may still oppose the idea of switching, but even among this group, an awareness of the disadvantages of singlets is growing. "I wore them for 17 years and never thought anything of it," says Jim Harshaw, a former DI wrestler and coach who now helps train wrestlers at the Charlottesville Wrestling Club in Charlottesville, Virginia. “Now that I am a club coach and trying to recruit teenage kids to the sport, I realize that singlets are the single biggest obstacle to kids who have already demonstrated interest. Even moms and dads crack jokes and poke fun.”

Harshaw also works in athletics administration at a Power 5 Conference school (University of Virginia). More than once, there have been opportunities to put images of wrestlers in publications but that didn't happen because there wasn't a picture that was "appropriate" due to the revealing nature of the singlet.

Harshaw asks this: "What teenage boy wants to try a new sport where he has to walk to the center of a gymnasium with all eyes on him wearing a tight-fitting single piece of Lycra and potentially be beaten by another boy?" Wrestling is humbling enough, he notes. "Let's make it slightly more comfortable—psychologically, not physically—and lower the barrier for those who want to give it a try."

Troy Nickerson, head coach at the University of Northern Colorado, wrestled at Cornell in the mid-2000s when teams like the Big Red, Missouri, and Hofstra, among others, wore a two-piece uniform. They looked great, Nickerson said, but he was not a fan of the feel once competing. But since then, compression garments have made great strides in both comfort and performance. That’s why he’s now in favor of giving wrestlers the choice between a two-piece or singlet for competition.

Tim Flynn, longtime head coach of perennial DI power Edinboro University, admits he's a fan of the traditional singlet. But he also says that this year, for the first time, the Scots are going to try and wear compression shirts and shorts, versus the traditional singlets. "To non-wrestling people, singlets looks funny," Flynn acknowledges.

"I know in the four major professional sports, the jerseys sell like hot cakes," says August Manz is a coach with the COBRA Optimists Wrestling Club of Council Bluffs, Iowa. "If kids or adults are wearing a Kyle Snyder replica jersey or uniform in public it can be a walking advertisement for the sport of wrestling and that wrestler. This can help get the common person interested in the sport of wrestling."

Wrestlers are good at making adjustments. In time, they would also adjust to this, Manz says.

Moyer also likes the idea of a wrestling jersey. "Those are the kinds of innovative things we need to be doing,” he says. “Anything that we can do to get youth wrestlers to look up to our iconic wrestlers is a good thing."

Ultimately, it’s about retaining wrestlers and growing the sport, on and off the mat.

"We want more people to enter our sport," Black points out. "We need to remove barriers to entry, and one of those barriers is the singlet. If we see our heroes of the sport wearing a jersey, or different style of uniform, wrestling will become more popular and socially acceptable. Let's start at the top, and let it filter down to the youth level."
I don't think wrestlers will ever wear something that is not skin-tight, given that I don't think kid is going to wear a compression shirt to school.
Bottom line is loose fitting clothes area safety hazard. Seeing what kids wear today, especially being in Hawaii with easy beach access, I would not think the worry of body exposure is an issue. Go to the beach and the fat football players are in short no shirt having a great time the fat girls in their skimpy bathing suit giving the shaka at the end of the KHON news. Self esteem problems of the kids should be addressed instead of covering it up with clothes.
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Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)

Post by OldManJenkins »

_sportcourt wrote:After the states P4P:
BOYS:
Cabanban/Terukina
Cooper

Cabanban - captures his third title and made it look pretty easy. This was deemed the “STACKED CLASS” and all year long he dismantled the field, he is literally head and shoulders above everyone else the only thing stacked about this class was Cabanban stacking up win after win.
Terukina – As impressive as Cabanban has been the young Terukina has been every bit as impressive and the argument can be made that what he is doing is more impressive. A typical freshman just does not win in that fashion, he is in total control of his matches and emotions.
Cooper – Very exciting wrestler, quick and willingness to take calculated opportunities is very fun to watch. Without the two above him we would be talking about this kid more.
* Pascua - After last year’s final I really thought he was not given the opportunity to show his skill set. After this final it was pretty obvious that he was showing his skill set or lack thereof. He got dragged deep and pulled it out but definitely lost lots of shine.

GIRLS:
Ashley Gooman
Teniya Alo

Gooman – Just watch the video..Lots of adjectives here insert what you like but she was nearly flawless. She gave up the first two and proceeded by putting on a spectacular performance, it was precision over power. Takes off her head gear and did not even break a sweat, easily the best performance of the tournament.
Alo – Solid performance in her own right, she took on everyone this year and beat them all. Her combination of explosiveness and power are always in the forefront when she is wrestling.
*Peralta – Struggled in her final against the young freshman from Waianae she was able to pull it off in the end but it was no easy task. Once again the skill set or lack thereof was very evident.
The rest of the girls are not that fun to watch

COY BOYS:
Lucas Misaki –Campbell came in with 7 athletes and walked away with 6 in the FINALS and 3 as State Champions. Not an easy task by any means and was in the hunt for the team title.

COY GIRLS:
Todd Hayase – Luna As a team there is no one out there that can stop this crew, with their combination of attitude and age they have the capability to holding on to this spot for next year also.

Shout out to the Officiating which was a vast improvement from years prior!
I think the Iolani coach should get some props too, they came in with 9 wrestlers and placed 8 (4-1st, 2-3rd, 2-5th) going 8-0 in medal round matches. And weren't the keyboard jockys saying Misaki wasn't a good coach and running the program into the ground? LOL

Hats off to all the Coaches who give their time to make the greatest sport happen.
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Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)

Post by twnoexcuses »

OldManJenkins wrote:
Monopoly man is actually only semi-retired, he suffered some injury and took himself off the mats but he is still an advisory ref that oversees the others. He may come back on the mats if he feels that his injury doesn't hinder his ability to ref. Stay tuned!

That's just the saddest paragrph I've ever read. On so many levels.

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Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)

Post by _sportcourt »

OldManJenkins wrote:
_sportcourt wrote:After the states P4P:
BOYS:
Cabanban/Terukina
Cooper

Cabanban - captures his third title and made it look pretty easy. This was deemed the “STACKED CLASS” and all year long he dismantled the field, he is literally head and shoulders above everyone else the only thing stacked about this class was Cabanban stacking up win after win.
Terukina – As impressive as Cabanban has been the young Terukina has been every bit as impressive and the argument can be made that what he is doing is more impressive. A typical freshman just does not win in that fashion, he is in total control of his matches and emotions.
Cooper – Very exciting wrestler, quick and willingness to take calculated opportunities is very fun to watch. Without the two above him we would be talking about this kid more.
* Pascua - After last year’s final I really thought he was not given the opportunity to show his skill set. After this final it was pretty obvious that he was showing his skill set or lack thereof. He got dragged deep and pulled it out but definitely lost lots of shine.

GIRLS:
Ashley Gooman
Teniya Alo

Gooman – Just watch the video..Lots of adjectives here insert what you like but she was nearly flawless. She gave up the first two and proceeded by putting on a spectacular performance, it was precision over power. Takes off her head gear and did not even break a sweat, easily the best performance of the tournament.
Alo – Solid performance in her own right, she took on everyone this year and beat them all. Her combination of explosiveness and power are always in the forefront when she is wrestling.
*Peralta – Struggled in her final against the young freshman from Waianae she was able to pull it off in the end but it was no easy task. Once again the skill set or lack thereof was very evident.
The rest of the girls are not that fun to watch

COY BOYS:
Lucas Misaki –Campbell came in with 7 athletes and walked away with 6 in the FINALS and 3 as State Champions. Not an easy task by any means and was in the hunt for the team title.

COY GIRLS:
Todd Hayase – Luna As a team there is no one out there that can stop this crew, with their combination of attitude and age they have the capability to holding on to this spot for next year also.

Shout out to the Officiating which was a vast improvement from years prior!
I think the Iolani coach should get some props too, they came in with 9 wrestlers and placed 8 (4-1st, 2-3rd, 2-5th) going 8-0 in medal round matches. And weren't the keyboard jockys saying Misaki wasn't a good coach and running the program into the ground? LOL

Hats off to all the Coaches who give their time to make the greatest sport happen.
Not sure plural but I definitely said it..I'm not hell bent on my opinions but I'll stand by them until proven wrong, I give props when its deserved. Still don't believe this is his class, he took over a program that was the reigning 2 time OIA Champions (boys) and 2x OIA (girls) before that coach also left. I"ll be impressed if he can repeat next year and if he can 2019 that would be his class of freshman to seniors. This year I believe he did Great and deserves COY.

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Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)

Post by Kama »

If we think monopoly man was bad, It's only a matter of time before this bomb hits out shores. I've placed a link to a video of the wrestler below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-dLRVgr2sY


CYPRESS, Texas >> A 17-year-old transgender boy completed an undefeated season today by winning a controversial Texas state girls wrestling title in an event clouded by criticism from those who believe the testosterone he’s taking as he transitions from female to male created an unfair advantage.

The family of Mack Beggs has said he would rather be wrestling boys, but state policy calls for students to wrestle against the gender listed on their birth certificates. So the junior from Euless Trinity beat Chelsea Sanchez 12-2 in the 110-pound weight class to improve to 57-0 and earn the championship.

Beggs fell to his knees for a moment after the win as a mixture of cheers and boos rained down on him. He then hugged his coach and left the mat.

He had a bit of fun with his fellow wrestlers at the medal ceremony when he counted down from three and all six of the top finishers posed by doing a dab on the medal stand.

Beggs, who reached the state tournament after two opponents forfeited, was dogged throughout the tournament by questions about whether his testosterone treatments made him too strong to wrestle fairly against girls.

He pinned Kailyn Clay earlier Saturday to reach the final. That was after he beat Taylor Latham and Mya Engert handily on Friday to reach the semifinals.

In the semifinals, the match was halted for a couple of minutes because Beggs had a bloody nose. Trainers finally managed to stop the bleeding and the fight resumed. Not long after, Beggs slammed Clay on the mat and pinned her.

He and Clay shared a long hug before an official raised Beggs’ arm to signal victory, and the wrestler scurried off the mat. Clay’s coached shouted to reporters that she “did not have permission” to talk to them after her loss and both of her parents declined comment.

His participation comes at a crucial moment, with the public and politicians debating the growing belief that gender is fluid. Just this week, the Trump administration announced an end to federal protections that allowed transgender students to use facilities based on their gender identity, leaving states and school districts to determine their own policies.

And in Texas, lawmakers are considering a bill similar to HB2, the North Carolina law that prompted the NBA to move this year’s All-Star Game out of that state. If passed, the Texas version, called SB6, would require transgender people to use the bathroom of their “biological sex.”

The University Interscholastic League, which oversees athletics in Texas public schools, enacted the birth certificate policy Aug. 1.

Attorney Jim Baudhuin tried and failed to get injunctions before both the district and regional meets to prevent Beggs from competing while he transitions because he is taking testosterone. Baudhuin, who is the parent of a wrestler at another school who has never faced Beggs, told The Associated Press earlier this week he doesn’t blame Beggs for the situation, but faults the UIL.

“The more I learn about this, the more I realize that she’s just trying to live her life and her family is, too,” Baudhuin said. “She’s being forced into that position. Who knows, through discovery we may find out that’s not the case. But every indication is, the way the winds are going now, the blame rests with the UIL and the superintendents.”

Despite criticism of the policy, UIL executives don’t envision a change.

“Ninety-five percent of the school superintendents in Texas voted for the rule as it was proposed, which was to use birth certificates,” UIL deputy director Jamey Harrison said. “So any rule can be reconsidered, but … given the overwhelming support for that rule, I don’t expect it to change anytime soon.”

twnoexcuses
First guy off the bench
First guy off the bench
Posts: 324
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:05 pm

Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)

Post by twnoexcuses »

Kama wrote:If we think monopoly man was bad, It's only a matter of time before this bomb hits out shores. I've placed a link to a video of the wrestler below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-dLRVgr2sY


CYPRESS, Texas >> A 17-year-old transgender boy completed an undefeated season today by winning a controversial Texas state girls wrestling title in an event clouded by criticism from those who believe the testosterone he’s taking as he transitions from female to male created an unfair advantage.

The family of Mack Beggs has said he would rather be wrestling boys, but state policy calls for students to wrestle against the gender listed on their birth certificates. So the junior from Euless Trinity beat Chelsea Sanchez 12-2 in the 110-pound weight class to improve to 57-0 and earn the championship.

Beggs fell to his knees for a moment after the win as a mixture of cheers and boos rained down on him. He then hugged his coach and left the mat.

He had a bit of fun with his fellow wrestlers at the medal ceremony when he counted down from three and all six of the top finishers posed by doing a dab on the medal stand.

Beggs, who reached the state tournament after two opponents forfeited, was dogged throughout the tournament by questions about whether his testosterone treatments made him too strong to wrestle fairly against girls.

He pinned Kailyn Clay earlier Saturday to reach the final. That was after he beat Taylor Latham and Mya Engert handily on Friday to reach the semifinals.

In the semifinals, the match was halted for a couple of minutes because Beggs had a bloody nose. Trainers finally managed to stop the bleeding and the fight resumed. Not long after, Beggs slammed Clay on the mat and pinned her.

He and Clay shared a long hug before an official raised Beggs’ arm to signal victory, and the wrestler scurried off the mat. Clay’s coached shouted to reporters that she “did not have permission” to talk to them after her loss and both of her parents declined comment.

His participation comes at a crucial moment, with the public and politicians debating the growing belief that gender is fluid. Just this week, the Trump administration announced an end to federal protections that allowed transgender students to use facilities based on their gender identity, leaving states and school districts to determine their own policies.

And in Texas, lawmakers are considering a bill similar to HB2, the North Carolina law that prompted the NBA to move this year’s All-Star Game out of that state. If passed, the Texas version, called SB6, would require transgender people to use the bathroom of their “biological sex.”

The University Interscholastic League, which oversees athletics in Texas public schools, enacted the birth certificate policy Aug. 1.

Attorney Jim Baudhuin tried and failed to get injunctions before both the district and regional meets to prevent Beggs from competing while he transitions because he is taking testosterone. Baudhuin, who is the parent of a wrestler at another school who has never faced Beggs, told The Associated Press earlier this week he doesn’t blame Beggs for the situation, but faults the UIL.

“The more I learn about this, the more I realize that she’s just trying to live her life and her family is, too,” Baudhuin said. “She’s being forced into that position. Who knows, through discovery we may find out that’s not the case. But every indication is, the way the winds are going now, the blame rests with the UIL and the superintendents.”

Despite criticism of the policy, UIL executives don’t envision a change.

“Ninety-five percent of the school superintendents in Texas voted for the rule as it was proposed, which was to use birth certificates,” UIL deputy director Jamey Harrison said. “So any rule can be reconsidered, but … given the overwhelming support for that rule, I don’t expect it to change anytime soon.”
So, how would you resolve it?

Under the Texas rule, a male transitioning to female wrestles as a male, and a female transitioning to a male wrestles as a female (as Beggs did).

Is it the chemical/hormone treatment that is the problem (e.g. Beggs was reportedly receiving testosterone supplements). What about some of the stuff available at GNC stores?

Or, is the problem with the declaration that an individual is one gender (e.g. Beggs: "I am a male") but being forced to wrestle, or categorized, the opposite? (e.g. a problem with permitting any participation to someone who would dare to seek gender re-assignment??)

Is the problem unfair advantage? I would argue that mother nature and genetics to a fine job of conferring unfair advantages even within unaltered genders. And then, in addition, "choices" made, whether in training regimen, weight alteration, level of commitment, can and do change fortunes and outcomes. Should there be further analysis to even the playing field as to those things? Categorizing based on number of hours devoted to the sport? Width of shoulders? Quality of innate sense of balance and explosiveness of hips? Natural strength?

Is there any question except that Beggs was born a female? Also, is there any question except that Beggs should be allowed to live out his days as a male if he so chooses?

I think the answer to both those last two questions is "no". No question as to either.

What's the solution? No wrestling for someone like Beggs? I sincerely doubt, by the way, Beggs is doing gender re-assignment for the sole purpose of winning a State Championship. Wrestling parents can get crazy. But not that crazy.

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