Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)

Give your high school or alumni a shout out! Talk about high school sports in this forum.
Ramashack
High-quality H20 provider
High-quality H20 provider
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:35 pm
Location: Honolulu, HI

Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)

Post by Ramashack »

I have no problem with having to wrestle what's shown on your birth certificate. My issue would be with the testosterone treatment. Now I'm no expert on the subject, but I assume the testosterone gives the wrestler an advantage. If it does not, than I don't see a problem.

If testosterone does give an advantage then the wrestler needs to choose between transition or wrestling. My .02

This actually hits pretty close to home, as one of our Team Hawaii girls lost against this wrestler at Fargo this past summer. Not sure if testosterone was involved then, but from what I heard, under arm and leg hairs were very evident.

twnoexcuses
First guy off the bench
First guy off the bench
Posts: 324
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:05 pm

Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)

Post by twnoexcuses »

Ramashack wrote:I have no problem with having to wrestle what's shown on your birth certificate. My issue would be with the testosterone treatment. Now I'm no expert on the subject, but I assume the testosterone gives the wrestler an advantage. If it does not, than I don't see a problem.

If testosterone does give an advantage then the wrestler needs to choose between transition or wrestling. My .02

This actually hits pretty close to home, as one of our Team Hawaii girls lost against this wrestler at Fargo this past summer. Not sure if testosterone was involved then, but from what I heard, under arm and leg hairs were very evident.

Maybe the girl was "European"

wrestling808
High-quality H20 provider
High-quality H20 provider
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:17 am

Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)

Post by wrestling808 »

Ramashack wrote:I have no problem with having to wrestle what's shown on your birth certificate. My issue would be with the testosterone treatment. Now I'm no expert on the subject, but I assume the testosterone gives the wrestler an advantage. If it does not, than I don't see a problem.

If testosterone does give an advantage then the wrestler needs to choose between transition or wrestling. My .02

This actually hits pretty close to home, as one of our Team Hawaii girls lost against this wrestler at Fargo this past summer. Not sure if testosterone was involved then, but from what I heard, under arm and leg hairs were very evident.

If you're born with a penis you are a boy and you will wrestle with boys. If you're born with a vagina you are a girl and will wrestle with girls. I would not allow this boy to cross pollinate with the girls, tough titty.

When I discuss this among my liberal friends I hear the same argument that "girls are allowed to wrestle boys, so why not boys with girls?" My response is that there needs to be a lot more women's programs and
it's physically unfair for girls to have to wrestle boys. It's that simple...

If we took the girls in our P4P survey, Alo, Peralta, Gooman, Navarro, Corbett, and put them against the boys champions in their weight class they would get beaten. And if the boys got pissed, these girls would get hurt.
I'm not sure how these moronic state officials come to the conclusion that this is the answer. Maybe it's the politically correct idiotic brainwashing mindset being pressed on them or they just don't have a damn clue.
If this comes to pass and we get cursed with this problem in Hawaii, I hope we'll have the common sense to just say NO.

twnoexcuses
First guy off the bench
First guy off the bench
Posts: 324
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:05 pm

Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)

Post by twnoexcuses »

wrestling808 wrote:
Ramashack wrote:I have no problem with having to wrestle what's shown on your birth certificate. My issue would be with the testosterone treatment. Now I'm no expert on the subject, but I assume the testosterone gives the wrestler an advantage. If it does not, than I don't see a problem.

If testosterone does give an advantage then the wrestler needs to choose between transition or wrestling. My .02

This actually hits pretty close to home, as one of our Team Hawaii girls lost against this wrestler at Fargo this past summer. Not sure if testosterone was involved then, but from what I heard, under arm and leg hairs were very evident.

If you're born with a penis you are a boy and you will wrestle with boys. If you're born with a vagina you are a girl and will wrestle with girls. I would not allow this boy to cross pollinate with the girls, tough titty.

When I discuss this among my liberal friends I hear the same argument that "girls are allowed to wrestle boys, so why not boys with girls?" My response is that there needs to be a lot more women's programs and
it's physically unfair for girls to have to wrestle boys. It's that simple...

If we took the girls in our P4P survey, Alo, Peralta, Gooman, Navarro, Corbett, and put them against the boys champions in their weight class they would get beaten. And if the boys got pissed, these girls would get hurt.
I'm not sure how these moronic state officials come to the conclusion that this is the answer. Maybe it's the politically correct idiotic brainwashing mindset being pressed on them or they just don't have a damn clue.
If this comes to pass and we get cursed with this problem in Hawaii, I hope we'll have the common sense to just say NO.
You need to read the article and other press on this. What you advocate IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED. The controversial Texas State champ was born a girl (I think), and was transitioning to a boy. Texas made her wrestle in the girls' division.

So, your argument is that Texas was correct in what it allowed to happen.

wrestling808
High-quality H20 provider
High-quality H20 provider
Posts: 145
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:17 am

Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)

Post by wrestling808 »

twnoexcuses wrote:
wrestling808 wrote:
Ramashack wrote:I have no problem with having to wrestle what's shown on your birth certificate. My issue would be with the testosterone treatment. Now I'm no expert on the subject, but I assume the testosterone gives the wrestler an advantage. If it does not, than I don't see a problem.

If testosterone does give an advantage then the wrestler needs to choose between transition or wrestling. My .02

This actually hits pretty close to home, as one of our Team Hawaii girls lost against this wrestler at Fargo this past summer. Not sure if testosterone was involved then, but from what I heard, under arm and leg hairs were very evident.

If you're born with a penis you are a boy and you will wrestle with boys. If you're born with a vagina you are a girl and will wrestle with girls. I would not allow this boy to cross pollinate with the girls, tough titty.

When I discuss this among my liberal friends I hear the same argument that "girls are allowed to wrestle boys, so why not boys with girls?" My response is that there needs to be a lot more women's programs and
it's physically unfair for girls to have to wrestle boys. It's that simple...


If we took the girls in our P4P survey, Alo, Peralta, Gooman, Navarro, Corbett, and put them against the boys champions in their weight class they would get beaten. And if the boys got pissed, these girls would get hurt.
I'm not sure how these moronic state officials come to the conclusion that this is the answer. Maybe it's the politically correct idiotic brainwashing mindset being pressed on them or they just don't have a damn clue.
If this comes to pass and we get cursed with this problem in Hawaii, I hope we'll have the common sense to just say NO.
You need to read the article and other press on this. What you advocate IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED. The controversial Texas State champ was born a girl (I think), and was transitioning to a boy. Texas made her wrestle in the girls' division.

So, your argument is that Texas was correct in what it allowed to happen.
Hey twonoexcuses, thanks for the clarification. I gotta stop posting when I'm drunk.

Now that I think about it this is even worse, I've seen girls on testosterone treatments, they get freakishly strong. I'll look for the video I watched a few years back that showed a girl about 125 pounds deadlifting 350 pounds. This wrestler needs to banned straight up.

Ramashack
High-quality H20 provider
High-quality H20 provider
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:35 pm
Location: Honolulu, HI

Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)

Post by Ramashack »

from a CNN article:
>>Dr. Brandon Mines, assistant professor at Emory University's Department of Orthopedics, said the argument has merit.
>>"Testosterone and anabolic steroids are in the same family and have the effect of increasing muscle mass and strength gains," Mines said.
>>The UIL's rules prohibit illegal steroid use, with the exception of those prescribed by doctors for "valid medical purposes." Beggs use of testosterone has not barred him from the competition.

This is the part that I have a problem with....use of testosterone and still able to compete girls.

And how would all of this be handled locally? Ok for any competitor to undergo testosterone treatment, and compete, as long as they find a doctor willing to validate it? Not sure we should go down that path.
On second thought, wouldn't really matter because no one is ever tested. Now you require the two wrestlers in the finals to submit urine samples, maybe you can say you are addressing the problem.

twnoexcuses
First guy off the bench
First guy off the bench
Posts: 324
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:05 pm

Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)

Post by twnoexcuses »

The problem/concern here is, I'm not sure what the argument is about.

Unfair advantage?

Equality?

Leveling the playing field?

The sanctity of gender?

Disagreement/opposition/disgust(?) with transgender(s)?

Drugs/enhancements?

RELIGION, perhaps?

One of the undercurrents in all the stories I read and watched, was that the wrestler him/herself seemed to be readily embraced by his/her peers, and in particular, fellow wrestlers. The lawsuits and catcalls from the crowd were being fronted by adults.

I think the generation to which high school wrestling actually belongs (high schoolers) will be the ones to define the parameters and handling of this issue. I suspect they'll do a better job than we can. . . We elected Trump, after all. . . .

twnoexcuses
First guy off the bench
First guy off the bench
Posts: 324
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:05 pm

Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)

Post by twnoexcuses »

One last thought. I tried thinking about being at the HHSAA Chevron Tournament at sometime in the future, sitting next to or near someone who was booing a kid in the same situation as that Beggs kid.

First, I don't think that would happen at our State Tournament, if the situation arose. Whatever people's views on the issue, I just think our people would respect a kid in that situation enough not to boo like the clowns in Texas.

IF there were booing, I think our crowd would shut it up either assertively, or through passive ostracization.

I think protestors from the "right" who might show up to "protest" to make an example out of such a kid would meet some people in the stands they might not want to.

I think I'm correct in those predictions (and definitely hope with all my might I am). And, it's one of the reasons I like living here.

Kama
Pine rider
Pine rider
Posts: 275
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:11 pm

Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)

Post by Kama »

twnoexcuses wrote:One last thought. I tried thinking about being at the HHSAA Chevron Tournament at sometime in the future, sitting next to or near someone who was booing a kid in the same situation as that Beggs kid.

First, I don't think that would happen at our State Tournament, if the situation arose. Whatever people's views on the issue, I just think our people would respect a kid in that situation enough not to boo like the clowns in Texas.

IF there were booing, I think our crowd would shut it up either assertively, or through passive ostracization.

I think protestors from the "right" who might show up to "protest" to make an example out of such a kid would meet some people in the stands they might not want to.

I think I'm correct in those predictions (and definitely hope with all my might I am). And, it's one of the reasons I like living here.
In the OIA finals during the Pagarayan vs. Garcia match I read a post here that said the crowd was saying "take him out" or something like that, and this was a wrestler with a sprained ankle. Would it be fair to say that someone like Beggs would get the full wrath of the audience? They may even need to be escorted to and from the tournaments for safety.

kauwildman
Pom pom fluffer
Pom pom fluffer
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:27 am

Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)

Post by kauwildman »

Testosterone treatments should an automatic disqualifier irrespective of gender.

_sportcourt
Pom pom fluffer
Pom pom fluffer
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:36 am

Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)

Post by _sportcourt »

kauwildman wrote:Testosterone treatments should an automatic disqualifier irrespective of gender.
Regardless of the testosterone its just wrong.. until they come up with something scientific proof that makes it a matter of fact, than I will buy in.

Males can just say hey I feel like a woman and take away millions of opportunities for girls which was put in place for title 9.

Imagine all the stolen scholarships in all sports it would be a total joke, with all guys saying today i feel like a transgender. In support of women own business they are allowed massive benefits and tax breaks, what happens when men start taking them away based on a feeling.

Not good at all...

Kama
Pine rider
Pine rider
Posts: 275
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:11 pm

Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)

Post by Kama »

Misake resigns as Campbell head coach. Coach Santos takes over top position. Happened on Monday.

clappingforyou
Pom pom fluffer
Pom pom fluffer
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:15 am

Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)

Post by clappingforyou »

Kama wrote:Misake resigns as Campbell head coach. Coach Santos takes over top position. Happened on Monday.
Is this confirmed? I wonder what the reason would be for a resignation?

twnoexcuses
First guy off the bench
First guy off the bench
Posts: 324
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:05 pm

Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)

Post by twnoexcuses »

clappingforyou wrote:
Kama wrote:Misake resigns as Campbell head coach. Coach Santos takes over top position. Happened on Monday.
Is this confirmed? I wonder what the reason would be for a resignation?
Amosa fired in football, Misaki in wrestling.

Counting chickens that never appear, sitting at the edge of the water thirsty as hell, walking around glad handing like you "won" when you didn't and don't. . . for three years in a row. . . Campbell AD is gonna retire soon.

_sportcourt
Pom pom fluffer
Pom pom fluffer
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:36 am

Re: Wrestling 2016 *wrestling and speculation - (no more bitching & moaning)

Post by _sportcourt »

clappingforyou wrote:
Kama wrote:Misake resigns as Campbell head coach. Coach Santos takes over top position. Happened on Monday.
Is this confirmed? I wonder what the reason would be for a resignation?

Misaki was sinking the ship...he left nothing in the tank. Really had no choice but to retire to give the impression he was a great coach

I've said it for a while but never thought he would bail to keep his rep alive

Post Reply