Wrestling 2016

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2Cents
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Re: Wrestling 2016

Post by 2Cents »

LOL :lol: there are some fragile egos out there.

It is hard to grow wrestling when two weeks in a row the last rounds in OIA tournaments were cancelled because the tournament host didn't want to stay any longer. Scheduled end times were a couple hours away but kids and spectators were told to pack it up, That's All Folks.

A tournament is an opportunity for kids to wrestle on a full mat with a referee for a full match. They should wrestle all their matches, even if the hosts want to go home early or if they have to face a team mate. However, if you are going to go home early at least match up the opposing schools in the earlier rounds. Let A and B wrestlers face other schools before team mates wrestle each other.

ILH starts later but a lot of the kids practice year round. I guess ILH parents can afford the $100 plus per month price tags of pay to play clubs like Grapplers. A lot of OIA kids in high school wrestling don't want to put in the time outside of practice and the season. So they reap what they sow. The ones that do find a way. A lot rests on the wrestler's motivation and parental support. As far as kids clubs, they are out there. Go to one in your community and build it. Watch practices, go to tournaments, coach (kids need very little skill early on), help the coaches, travel (maui, mainland). Be part of the solution and if nothing else help your kid train whether it's mat time, conditioning, weights. Wrestling just isn't a sport that can be done by dropping your kid off and picking him up and expect a competitive athlete.

twnoexcuses
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Re: Wrestling 2016

Post by twnoexcuses »

2Cents wrote:LOL :lol: there are some fragile egos out there.

It is hard to grow wrestling when two weeks in a row the last rounds in OIA tournaments were cancelled because the tournament host didn't want to stay any longer. Scheduled end times were a couple hours away but kids and spectators were told to pack it up, That's All Folks.

A tournament is an opportunity for kids to wrestle on a full mat with a referee for a full match. They should wrestle all their matches, even if the hosts want to go home early or if they have to face a team mate. However, if you are going to go home early at least match up the opposing schools in the earlier rounds. Let A and B wrestlers face other schools before team mates wrestle each other.

ILH starts later but a lot of the kids practice year round. I guess ILH parents can afford the $100 plus per month price tags of pay to play clubs like Grapplers. A lot of OIA kids in high school wrestling don't want to put in the time outside of practice and the season. So they reap what they sow. The ones that do find a way. A lot rests on the wrestler's motivation and parental support. As far as kids clubs, they are out there. Go to one in your community and build it. Watch practices, go to tournaments, coach (kids need very little skill early on), help the coaches, travel (maui, mainland). Be part of the solution and if nothing else help your kid train whether it's mat time, conditioning, weights. Wrestling just isn't a sport that can be done by dropping your kid off and picking him up and expect a competitive athlete.

People seem unable to focus their sports fueled hostilities on anything more than the perceived OIA/ILH recruiting imbalance. Guess it is an easy conjuring of "us vs. them", "haves vs. have nots", "locals vs. haoles", etc., etc., etc. type competitive juices.

But the real unfairness and imbalance is the way certain sports across the entirety of the Hawaii high school scene, and across league lines, are allocated resources.

The problems 2cents describe above are key symptoms of that unfairness and imbalance.

Wrestling isn't the only victim. Other "lesser" sports suffer the same fates.

When's the last time a football game was cut short because they had to close down the field, or the AD wanted to go home?

When's the last time the consolation match of a basketball tournament wasn't played because there was a time limit on gym use?

For that matter, when's the last time the consolation games in a basketball or volleyball League or State Tournament were shortened (e.g. first to 7 points for the first game of a volleyball consolation match, or to 4 minute quarters in basketball??)

When is the last time a scheduled "start time" for a football or basketball game was moved just to get the whole darned thing over with??

The wrestling community needs to figure out a way to "unite" around the issue of receiving more respect and resources from the various high schools and leagues for the playing of the sport.

As a sport, wrestling consumes perhaps the LEAST resources of any for which championships are held. Devoted practice space square footage is miniscule compared to just about any other sport. Devoted competition space, gym time, and thus operational costs are minimal compared to the playing or even presentation of any other sport (in many cases, the actual playing surfaces are owned and donated by COACHES!).

What is the justification for this? The wrestlers don't work as "hard" as other athletes? It's not a sport that accommodates girls? They can't collect admission at the entrances to venues? Too much school administrative staff time spent setting up mats and scoring tables??

Compare 1) the AGGREGATE gym time used by a SINGLE high school basketball team to practice and play their season; with 2) the AGGREGATE GYM TIME devoted to the entirety of Oahu high school wrestling (practice and tournaments combined). Who's in the gym more hours?

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Re: Wrestling 2016

Post by twnoexcuses »

twnoexcuses wrote:
2Cents wrote:LOL :lol: there are some fragile egos out there.

It is hard to grow wrestling when two weeks in a row the last rounds in OIA tournaments were cancelled because the tournament host didn't want to stay any longer. Scheduled end times were a couple hours away but kids and spectators were told to pack it up, That's All Folks.

A tournament is an opportunity for kids to wrestle on a full mat with a referee for a full match. They should wrestle all their matches, even if the hosts want to go home early or if they have to face a team mate. However, if you are going to go home early at least match up the opposing schools in the earlier rounds. Let A and B wrestlers face other schools before team mates wrestle each other.

ILH starts later but a lot of the kids practice year round. I guess ILH parents can afford the $100 plus per month price tags of pay to play clubs like Grapplers. A lot of OIA kids in high school wrestling don't want to put in the time outside of practice and the season. So they reap what they sow. The ones that do find a way. A lot rests on the wrestler's motivation and parental support. As far as kids clubs, they are out there. Go to one in your community and build it. Watch practices, go to tournaments, coach (kids need very little skill early on), help the coaches, travel (maui, mainland). Be part of the solution and if nothing else help your kid train whether it's mat time, conditioning, weights. Wrestling just isn't a sport that can be done by dropping your kid off and picking him up and expect a competitive athlete.

People seem unable to focus their sports fueled hostilities on anything more than the perceived OIA/ILH recruiting imbalance. Guess it is an easy conjuring of "us vs. them", "haves vs. have nots", "locals vs. haoles", etc., etc., etc. type competitive juices.

But the real unfairness and imbalance is the way certain sports across the entirety of the Hawaii high school scene, and across league lines, are allocated resources.

The problems 2cents describe above are key symptoms of that unfairness and imbalance.

Wrestling isn't the only victim. Other "lesser" sports suffer the same fates.

When's the last time a football game was cut short because they had to close down the field, or the AD wanted to go home?

When's the last time the consolation match of a basketball tournament wasn't played because there was a time limit on gym use?

For that matter, when's the last time the consolation games in a basketball or volleyball League or State Tournament were shortened (e.g. first to 7 points for the first game of a volleyball consolation match, or to 4 minute quarters in basketball??)

When is the last time a scheduled "start time" for a football or basketball game was moved just to get the whole darned thing over with??

The wrestling community needs to figure out a way to "unite" around the issue of receiving more respect and resources from the various high schools and leagues for the playing of the sport.

As a sport, wrestling consumes perhaps the LEAST resources of any for which championships are held. Devoted practice space square footage is miniscule compared to just about any other sport. Devoted competition space, gym time, and thus operational costs are minimal compared to the playing or even presentation of any other sport (in many cases, the actual playing surfaces are owned and donated by COACHES!).

What is the justification for this? The wrestlers don't work as "hard" as other athletes? It's not a sport that accommodates girls? They can't collect admission at the entrances to venues? Too much school administrative staff time spent setting up mats and scoring tables?? Unbeknownst to us all, wrestlers pay less tuition than other students in their schools? Or their parents pay less taxes???

Compare 1) the AGGREGATE gym time used by a SINGLE high school basketball team to practice and play their season; with 2) the AGGREGATE GYM TIME devoted to the entirety of Oahu high school wrestling (practice and tournaments combined). Who's in the gym more hours?

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Re: Wrestling 2016

Post by HS Football Fanatic »

twnoexcuses wrote:
2Cents wrote:LOL :lol: there are some fragile egos out there.

It is hard to grow wrestling when two weeks in a row the last rounds in OIA tournaments were cancelled because the tournament host didn't want to stay any longer. Scheduled end times were a couple hours away but kids and spectators were told to pack it up, That's All Folks.

A tournament is an opportunity for kids to wrestle on a full mat with a referee for a full match. They should wrestle all their matches, even if the hosts want to go home early or if they have to face a team mate. However, if you are going to go home early at least match up the opposing schools in the earlier rounds. Let A and B wrestlers face other schools before team mates wrestle each other.

ILH starts later but a lot of the kids practice year round. I guess ILH parents can afford the $100 plus per month price tags of pay to play clubs like Grapplers. A lot of OIA kids in high school wrestling don't want to put in the time outside of practice and the season. So they reap what they sow. The ones that do find a way. A lot rests on the wrestler's motivation and parental support. As far as kids clubs, they are out there. Go to one in your community and build it. Watch practices, go to tournaments, coach (kids need very little skill early on), help the coaches, travel (maui, mainland). Be part of the solution and if nothing else help your kid train whether it's mat time, conditioning, weights. Wrestling just isn't a sport that can be done by dropping your kid off and picking him up and expect a competitive athlete.

People seem unable to focus their sports fueled hostilities on anything more than the perceived OIA/ILH recruiting imbalance. Guess it is an easy conjuring of "us vs. them", "haves vs. have nots", "locals vs. haoles", etc., etc., etc. type competitive juices.

But the real unfairness and imbalance is the way certain sports across the entirety of the Hawaii high school scene, and across league lines, are allocated resources.

The problems 2cents describe above are key symptoms of that unfairness and imbalance.

Wrestling isn't the only victim. Other "lesser" sports suffer the same fates.

When's the last time a football game was cut short because they had to close down the field, or the AD wanted to go home?

When's the last time the consolation match of a basketball tournament wasn't played because there was a time limit on gym use?

For that matter, when's the last time the consolation games in a basketball or volleyball League or State Tournament were shortened (e.g. first to 7 points for the first game of a volleyball consolation match, or to 4 minute quarters in basketball??)

When is the last time a scheduled "start time" for a football or basketball game was moved just to get the whole darned thing over with??

The wrestling community needs to figure out a way to "unite" around the issue of receiving more respect and resources from the various high schools and leagues for the playing of the sport.

As a sport, wrestling consumes perhaps the LEAST resources of any for which championships are held. Devoted practice space square footage is miniscule compared to just about any other sport. Devoted competition space, gym time, and thus operational costs are minimal compared to the playing or even presentation of any other sport (in many cases, the actual playing surfaces are owned and donated by COACHES!).

What is the justification for this? The wrestlers don't work as "hard" as other athletes? It's not a sport that accommodates girls? They can't collect admission at the entrances to venues? Too much school administrative staff time spent setting up mats and scoring tables??

Compare 1) the AGGREGATE gym time used by a SINGLE high school basketball team to practice and play their season; with 2) the AGGREGATE GYM TIME devoted to the entirety of Oahu high school wrestling (practice and tournaments combined). Who's in the gym more hours?
@twnoexcuses: Wow, you got a lot off your chest. I'm not a really a wrestling fan, but yeah, you've made some very good points. It's hard to argue that wrestling is getting the respect it's due. That's kind of ironic, given the interest in wrestling that's apparent on this message-board. Perhaps it's because wrestling seems to be an "individual" sport, where guys (and gals) are engaging their opponents individually, one-on-one? Just a guess. It's certainly can't be about gender discrimination, as there's girls' wrestling, too.

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Re: Wrestling 2016

Post by Opihiman »

The league wrestling coordinators do a poor job promoting the events and don't provide the media with the results consequently nothing ever gets seen in the newspaper.

The ADs are pressed for gym space especially now that you got multiple divisions on multiple levels for sports, before if you were junk you got cut and had to find another sport. So what it seems like they are doing now is combining all levels of wrestling to one day of wrestling a week or one dual per week.

Less matches, less headache for the ADs. They go by rounds Inter (Boys then Girls), JV (Boys then Girls), Varsity (Boys then Girls). Three kids round robin. If you got 5 or 6 kids in the same weight they brake them up into smaller pools. And they messed with the length of the periods to speed things up.

Shorter the season the better. They used the budget crunch several years ago to cut the number of entries into the State Tournament then after that came all the multiple divisions and levels. I think they should expand the State tournament to 32 with Kauai's entry. More participation the better.

I think the hydration and weight certification is a killer to the sport. Before you could try multiple times now you got to go with what you get the first time you pass hydration. If you are naturally lean or in great shape, it hurts you because you can't cut anything unless you gain weight after hydration. The system favors the overweight person and is flawed because the trainers never conduct a second test to see if the descending wrestler ever loses any fat. But having plenty of fat will allow a wrestler to cut to unsafe levels. With the extension of the Football State Championships and 3 divisions, the football boys are coming out super late. They don't have time to adjust from their football weight to their wrestling weight.

Unfair, doesn't Judo involve weight classes. You would think that they would be all concerned about the safety issue for Judo as well.

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Re: Wrestling 2016

Post by OldManJenkins »

twnoexcuses wrote:
2Cents wrote:LOL :lol: there are some fragile egos out there.

It is hard to grow wrestling when two weeks in a row the last rounds in OIA tournaments were cancelled because the tournament host didn't want to stay any longer. Scheduled end times were a couple hours away but kids and spectators were told to pack it up, That's All Folks.

A tournament is an opportunity for kids to wrestle on a full mat with a referee for a full match. They should wrestle all their matches, even if the hosts want to go home early or if they have to face a team mate. However, if you are going to go home early at least match up the opposing schools in the earlier rounds. Let A and B wrestlers face other schools before team mates wrestle each other.

ILH starts later but a lot of the kids practice year round. I guess ILH parents can afford the $100 plus per month price tags of pay to play clubs like Grapplers. A lot of OIA kids in high school wrestling don't want to put in the time outside of practice and the season. So they reap what they sow. The ones that do find a way. A lot rests on the wrestler's motivation and parental support. As far as kids clubs, they are out there. Go to one in your community and build it. Watch practices, go to tournaments, coach (kids need very little skill early on), help the coaches, travel (maui, mainland). Be part of the solution and if nothing else help your kid train whether it's mat time, conditioning, weights. Wrestling just isn't a sport that can be done by dropping your kid off and picking him up and expect a competitive athlete.

People seem unable to focus their sports fueled hostilities on anything more than the perceived OIA/ILH recruiting imbalance. Guess it is an easy conjuring of "us vs. them", "haves vs. have nots", "locals vs. haoles", etc., etc., etc. type competitive juices.

But the real unfairness and imbalance is the way certain sports across the entirety of the Hawaii high school scene, and across league lines, are allocated resources.

The problems 2cents describe above are key symptoms of that unfairness and imbalance.

Wrestling isn't the only victim. Other "lesser" sports suffer the same fates.

When's the last time a football game was cut short because they had to close down the field, or the AD wanted to go home?

When's the last time the consolation match of a basketball tournament wasn't played because there was a time limit on gym use?

For that matter, when's the last time the consolation games in a basketball or volleyball League or State Tournament were shortened (e.g. first to 7 points for the first game of a volleyball consolation match, or to 4 minute quarters in basketball??)

When is the last time a scheduled "start time" for a football or basketball game was moved just to get the whole darned thing over with??

The wrestling community needs to figure out a way to "unite" around the issue of receiving more respect and resources from the various high schools and leagues for the playing of the sport.

As a sport, wrestling consumes perhaps the LEAST resources of any for which championships are held. Devoted practice space square footage is miniscule compared to just about any other sport. Devoted competition space, gym time, and thus operational costs are minimal compared to the playing or even presentation of any other sport (in many cases, the actual playing surfaces are owned and donated by COACHES!).

What is the justification for this? The wrestlers don't work as "hard" as other athletes? It's not a sport that accommodates girls? They can't collect admission at the entrances to venues? Too much school administrative staff time spent setting up mats and scoring tables??

Compare 1) the AGGREGATE gym time used by a SINGLE high school basketball team to practice and play their season; with 2) the AGGREGATE GYM TIME devoted to the entirety of Oahu high school wrestling (practice and tournaments combined). Who's in the gym more hours?
Don't forget the space per kid not just per sport. At parctic 1 basketball court serves 12 players, a baseball field 20 kids and wrestling room half the size of a basketball court will have 40 kids on it.

They justify extending the football season with playoffs and shorten the wrestling season to pay for it. How much does it cost to host games at the Stadium anyway? I'm pretty sure attendance doesn't pay for it.
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Re: Wrestling 2016

Post by HS Football Fanatic »

@OldManJenkins: Yep, looks like the ADs are going by market demand, so to speak. Of course, football is the 600-lb gorilla; nothing will unseat football. After that, it's basketball, particularly boys' basketball. Those two sports charge admission. After those two sports, I guess there's something of a free-for-all. But, wrestling charges admission too, right? But, the revenue can't match the revenue from football and boys' basketball.

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Re: Wrestling 2016

Post by OldManJenkins »

Yes football is quite popular, even though it has so many panty okole rules these days.
If you were to take the true cost of football at the high school level it is a loose money situation. Admission doesn't come close to paying for the costs of football, it is just a token amount charged. You have costs for the football field, which most fields being artificial and costing 1 million plus, the value of the real estate it sits on, maintenance of the field, equipment costs, referees and lights (many games played at night) and then you have all the tutoring costs since most of these football players not too bright.
Wrestlers they give us mats that they expect to last 20 years, shove us on a undesirable corner, equip with a singlet and headgear and use 1 gym per 15 teams once a week. The admission they charge actually generates more than what it costs for the facility. We do have to spend money on disinfectant though...
Too bad football players are too weak minded, fat and lazy to wrestle and afraid of hard work. Otherwise we might get more support.
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Re: Wrestling 2016

Post by HS Football Fanatic »

OldManJenkins wrote:Yes football is quite popular, even though it has so many panty okole rules these days.
If you were to take the true cost of football at the high school level it is a loose money situation. Admission doesn't come close to paying for the costs of football, it is just a token amount charged. You have costs for the football field, which most fields being artificial and costing 1 million plus, the value of the real estate it sits on, maintenance of the field, equipment costs, referees and lights (many games played at night) and then you have all the tutoring costs since most of these football players not too bright.
Wrestlers they give us mats that they expect to last 20 years, shove us on a undesirable corner, equip with a singlet and headgear and use 1 gym per 15 teams once a week. The admission they charge actually generates more than what it costs for the facility. We do have to spend money on disinfectant though...
Too bad football players are too weak minded, fat and lazy to wrestle and afraid of hard work. Otherwise we might get more support.
@OldManJenkins: Well, some football players are also wrestlers too, right? I recall that when I was in high school, several football players were also on the wrestling team. As I recall, two were linemen, but yeah, one of them was kind of fat. But, I guess most of the wrestlers in the heavyweight class are pretty fat.

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Re: Wrestling 2016

Post by Hawaiianeye »

Still trying to get answers for which club I should enroll my children in. Hopefully a coach that would teach my children basic fundamentals and good sportsmanship. A coach that would keep coaching them through good times and bad. Help anybody! Any way p4p has not changed, Corey Cabanban and Angela Peralta.

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Re: Wrestling 2016

Post by Kama »

Hawaiianeye wrote:Still trying to get answers for which club I should enroll my children in. Hopefully a coach that would teach my children basic fundamentals and good sportsmanship. A coach that would keep coaching them through good times and bad. Help anybody! Any way p4p has not changed, Corey Cabanban and Angela Peralta.
For boys folkstyle I would suggest Corey Cabanbans coach Darryl Terukina. For freestyle wrestling I would suggest Angela Peralta's coach Charles Ariola. Both teams are part of the USA wrestling group and their contact information can be found on the mat.com under Hawaii clubs. Good luck!

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Re: Wrestling 2016

Post by FoxMulder »

Up at MIT and Molokai looking strong this year

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Re: Wrestling 2016

Post by wrestling808 »

FoxMulder wrote:Up at MIT and Molokai looking strong this year
Molokai has only 5 wrestlers in the semis. They don't look that strong...


The Ivey meet has 22 teams and 360 total wrestlers, including a record 127 girls.

Moanalua led the girls standings through the first day with 73 points. Lahainaluna was second with 63 points, followed by Baldwin (60). The MIL has 23 girls in today’s semifinals, including nine from Baldwin and eight from Lahainaluna.

Baldwin topped the boys team standings with 105 points, followed by Moanalua (96.5), Benicia of California (94.5), Lahainaluna (90) and Waianae (83).

There are 24 MIL boys in the semifinals — Baldwin has eight, Lahainaluna has six and Molokai five.

The finals are slated to begin at 6 p.m. tonight.

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Re: Wrestling 2016

Post by FoxMulder »

Sorry let me clarify... I meant Molokai seems to be stronger than they have in the recent past

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Re: Wrestling 2016

Post by OldManJenkins »

I would not go to Charles, not good at cultivating talent only good at putting his name to talented kids.
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