HHSAA creates Open Division Football Playoffs

[HaterOfElitists]

One major question: if Iolani can't D1 win this year, will they demand to go back down and play in the D2 state tournament?

[unpaid]

WhatEWA BEACH,

Thanks for the info on the HPW forum post. Abramo did say he wasn't 100 percent sure. Damien would not have to move up,but there is the inference that should they win D-II again this year,they could decide to move up and try themselves. They could stay down but they wouldn't have to do so.

I guess I keep coming back to this because there is something about this idea of the Big Three schools,ILH,and HHSAA seemingly colluding with each other to keep the regular season ILH D-I 4th place finisher automatically relegated to D-I states. Iolani has no problem with it this year...understood. When,and it is just a matter of when,St.Francis,Damien ,and Pac-5 are going to have years where they move into ILH D-I,then what. Monarchs,Wolfpack,Saints have not said they don't want to go Open if they get the chance when they move into D-I.
Maybe they will want to have the ILH playoffs mean something and try to win the first round and get into the open division.

Conversely,there is going to come a time when,maybe real soon, one of the Big Three is going be the odd man out for 2,3,maybe 4 years in a row vis-a-vis the Open Division . Gotta wonder if maybe that school might decide to go ahead and play the 4th place team to decide who gets into states for D-I at some point down the road.

[gopunahou]

WhatEWA BEACH,

Thanks for the info on the HPW forum post. Abramo did say he wasn't 100 percent sure. Damien would not have to move up,but there is the inference that should they win D-II again this year,they could decide to move up and try themselves. They could stay down but they wouldn't have to do so.

I guess I keep coming back to this because there is something about this idea of the Big Three schools,ILH,and HHSAA seemingly colluding with each other to keep the regular season ILH D-I 4th place finisher automatically relegated to D-I states. Iolani has no problem with it this year...understood. When,and it is just a matter of when,St.Francis,Damien ,and Pac-5 are going to have years where they move into ILH D-I,then what. Monarchs,Wolfpack,Saints have not said they don't want to go Open if they get the chance when they move into D-I.
Maybe they will want to have the ILH playoffs mean something and try to win the first round and get into the open division.

Conversely,there is going to come a time when,maybe real soon, one of the Big Three is going be the odd man out for 2,3,maybe 4 years in a row vis-a-vis the Open Division . Gotta wonder if maybe that school might decide to go ahead and play the 4th place team to decide who gets into states for D-I at some point down the road.

That was Punahou in the late 90s and early 00s, where in some years we'd finish below Iolani. If this current format existed then, we likely would've battled Iolani every year for the ILH's D1 spot while St. Louis and Kamehameha duked it out against OIA teams in the Open.

[HS Football Fanatic]

How about the HHSAA keep the OPEN TEAMS limited to 52 players like the Champs Kahuku. That would be fair. Oh and all teams ride in no ac buses.

@Markeke: Well, for many years teams like Kamehameha, St Louis, and Punahou would have something like 80 players or more on their rosters. But really, the issue isn't really how large the roster is; it's how good are the first string and second string. Only 11 players can play at any one time. As for A/C buses: Who rides in A/C buses? Kamehameha is the richest high-school in the state, and even their buses don't have A/C. They may own a lot of buses, but none of them have A/C.

[HS Football Fanatic]

I'm confused
does Iolani get a free pass?

"The new format adopted by the HHSAA on Monday will give the ILH two state berths in the Open Division. The league’s third-place finisher in Division I will be allotted a berth in the HHSAA’s D-I state tournament." - http://www.hawaiiprepworld.com/football ... ew-format/

Let's say Punahou and St. Louis make it to the Open Division. So the ILH's 3rd place finisher would be either Kamehameha or Iolani.
I don't think Iolani gets a free pass they gotta place 3rd in league at least

Depends on which article you read, I guess. Here's a quote from Scoring Live's:

"The D1 field will be made up of four OIA teams, Iolani from the ILH, two teams from the Big Island Interscholastic Federation and one from the Maui Interscholastic League. Iolani is assured the ILH's lone D1 berth because Punahou, Kamehameha and Saint Louis all declared only for the Open division." - http://scoringlive.com/story.php?storyid=14409

IF Scoring Live's reporting is accurate, it's crystal clear that Iolani gets a free pass. Since they've already got their ticket stamped to the D1 State Tourney, they can just rest their starters as much as they want during the regular season since they're not required to win a single in-league game(not that they would have, but still). Again, ridiculous.

Thing is, St. Louis, Punahou, and Kamehameha will treat their games against Iolani like a bye week. They did last year. But let me guarantee you this: Iolani will throw the kitchen sink at us and St. Louis on September 17 and 23, respectively. Not only are we their biggest rivals, the St. Louis home game on September 23 is their homecoming.

@gopunahou: I have a funny feeling St Louis is going to ruin Iolani's homecoming. St Louis is tough on O and D, and they're ranked #2 in the state.

[HS Football Fanatic]

I know I rag on Iolani but this is something somebody ELSE suggested--maybe Chris Chun feels sorry for them for going against the Big 3 twice (and possibly playing St. Louis or Punahou THREE times). Chun is an Iolani grad, mind you.

What I do know is that saynotomercs will love this format.

@HaterOfElitists: Something tells me Iolani won't be able to play St Louis or Punahou THREE times; playing them just TWICE takes a major toll on them. Iolani simply doesn't usually have the numbers, size, or physicality to play St Louis or Punahou three times, and be successful. I suspect that even Iolani alumni would admit this. I mean, things are what they are. I'm not posting this to talk stink about Iolani or make its alumni feel bad.

So you are saying they'll play Kamehameha three times? And that Kamehameha will be the top seed in the ILH tournament? The rules are, whoever finishes with the best record draws the last-place team in the league tournament (most likely Iolani). Since Punahou or St. Louis will likely finish first (or tie for the best record), Iolani will face one of them, giving them a third matchup with either. The only way Iolani can back out of this is is to forfeit. And let me tell you, if Iolani is sporting a 0-5 or even 1-4 record entering its regular season finale against us, it'll likely give its main contributors a rest or only give them a quarter of playing time--just to save them for their "playoff" game and third matchup with either us or St. Louis. The bad news for them is that the regular season winner of the ILH will throw the kitchen sink at them and never relent until they've established a 35-point lead or more in that playoff game. Hate to break it to you HS Football Fanatic, but Iolani must play a playoff game in the second week of October. On the bright side, it'll give them three weeks to get healthy before their first state tournament game.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

That's the ILH schedule.

@gopunahou: Actually, I'm not shedding any tears for Iolani, as I'm not an Iolani alumnus. I don't think they can play Kamehameha three times either, and be successful. I don't think Iolani can play any of the ILH's Big Three three times, and be successful.

[HS Football Fanatic]

Sounds to me like the ILH just payed off the HHSAA.. What a joke!! All but one team from the ILH division 1 will be playing for a title. More ammo for them to recruit and almost guarantee a title shot. Say good bye to the competitiveness between the leagues the OIA cannot compete..

@bigD: As long as the OIA has Kahuku, the OIA can compete.

[HS Football Fanatic]

Iolani has a great shot at competing in D1. This year's team can do it. Here's the problem. What if by miracles or numbers scrunching the Raiders look up the #2 or #3 spot ILH? Chaotic. THEY GIVE THE OIA ANOTHER. D1 SPOT? What if Damen's wants the D1 spot? Lots of questions.

@Markeke: Iolani is indeed a decent team this year, and they were ranked #10 last I checked. But, I just can't see them beating St Louis, Punahou, or Kamehameha. I think all three of those teams have a little too much in terms of size, physicality, numbers, and talent. I can't see Iolani overcoming that. Iolani might make the games somewhat close, but close doesn't count.

[Markeke]

How about the HHSAA keep the OPEN TEAMS limited to 52 players like the Champs Kahuku. That would be fair. Oh and all teams ride in no ac buses.

@Markeke: Well, for many years teams like Kamehameha, St Louis, and Punahou would have something like 80 players or more on their rosters. But really, the issue isn't really how large the roster is; it's how good are the first string and second string. Only 11 players can play at any one time. As for A/C buses: Who rides in A/C buses? Kamehameha is the richest high-school in the state, and even their buses don't have A/C. They may own a lot of buses, but none of them have A/C.

Point is, it takes big money to suit 80-90 players, something the public schools don't have. Money is the key. The ac bus thing, just being sarc.

[HaterOfElitists]

Sounds to me like the ILH just payed off the HHSAA.. What a joke!! All but one team from the ILH division 1 will be playing for a title. More ammo for them to recruit and almost guarantee a title shot. Say good bye to the competitiveness between the leagues the OIA cannot compete..

Prove yourself to be bigger than these OIA crybabies that always play the victim and have the confidence that Kahuku and the rest of the OIA can compete with the ILH. Former Kahuku coach Livai always said "if you don't believe you can win, go home." If you don't believe you can play with ILH schools, don't football at all. Being an OIA fan that cowardly admits defeat to the ILH accomplishes NOTHING.

[HaterOfElitists]

Iolani has a great shot at competing in D1. This year's team can do it. Here's the problem. What if by miracles or numbers scrunching the Raiders look up the #2 or #3 spot ILH? Chaotic. THEY GIVE THE OIA ANOTHER. D1 SPOT? What if Damen's wants the D1 spot? Lots of questions.

@Markeke: Iolani is indeed a decent team this year, and they were ranked #10 last I checked. But, I just can't see them beating St Louis, Punahou, or Kamehameha. I think all three of those teams have a little too much in terms of size, physicality, numbers, and talent. I can't see Iolani overcoming that. Iolani might make the games somewhat close, but close doesn't count.

I hope you only use the polls as a measuring stick and not as gospel. Believing EVERYTHING the polls say demonstrates that you've got NO willingness to think for yourself. Remember, NOBODY pegged Leilehua in 2007 to be in the same tier as St. Louis, Kamehameha, Punahou, Kahuku, Waianae, and Mililani (or even Farrington) but guess what? There is a Koa Trophy in Wahiawa that'll always say "2007 Division I State Champions". And if you think Leilehua 2007 is an aberration, look no further than Castle in 2002 and Leilehua itself in 2004. A team that's unranked could easily make its way into the Open Division playoffs, just like a highly touted team can disappoint and barely finish above .500 (looking at you, 2009 St. Louis). Polls don't tell the whole story, especially now.

[HS Football Fanatic]

How about the HHSAA keep the OPEN TEAMS limited to 52 players like the Champs Kahuku. That would be fair. Oh and all teams ride in no ac buses.

@Markeke: Well, for many years teams like Kamehameha, St Louis, and Punahou would have something like 80 players or more on their rosters. But really, the issue isn't really how large the roster is; it's how good are the first string and second string. Only 11 players can play at any one time. As for A/C buses: Who rides in A/C buses? Kamehameha is the richest high-school in the state, and even their buses don't have A/C. They may own a lot of buses, but none of them have A/C.

Point is, it takes big money to suit 80-90 players, something the public schools don't have. Money is the key. The ac bus thing, just being sarc.

@Markeke: Oh, OK. But, hasn't Kahuku--until recently--had 80+ players almost every year? Is money really the final determinant? Then how did Kahuku have enough money to suit all those players in years past? Kahuku is a public school. I know there are other public schools besides Kahuku that usually have large rosters. I'm thinking Farrington, for example.

[HS Football Fanatic]

Sounds to me like the ILH just payed off the HHSAA.. What a joke!! All but one team from the ILH division 1 will be playing for a title. More ammo for them to recruit and almost guarantee a title shot. Say good bye to the competitiveness between the leagues the OIA cannot compete..

Prove yourself to be bigger than these OIA crybabies that always play the victim and have the confidence that Kahuku and the rest of the OIA can compete with the ILH. Former Kahuku coach Livai always said "if you don't believe you can win, go home." If you don't believe you can play with ILH schools, don't football at all. Being an OIA fan that cowardly admits defeat to the ILH accomplishes NOTHING.

@HaterOfElitists: I have to agree with you. When it comes to sports, you never know. There's always the chance that a public school can beat a private school, in any sport. In the sport of football, Kahuku is the perfect example. But look at basketball: Kalaheo has often beaten private schools in years past. Look at baseball: Baldwin took the state D1 title this past school year. Look at girls' soccer: Pearl City won the state D1 title. We could go on and on.

[HS Football Fanatic]

Iolani has a great shot at competing in D1. This year's team can do it. Here's the problem. What if by miracles or numbers scrunching the Raiders look up the #2 or #3 spot ILH? Chaotic. THEY GIVE THE OIA ANOTHER. D1 SPOT? What if Damen's wants the D1 spot? Lots of questions.

@Markeke: Iolani is indeed a decent team this year, and they were ranked #10 last I checked. But, I just can't see them beating St Louis, Punahou, or Kamehameha. I think all three of those teams have a little too much in terms of size, physicality, numbers, and talent. I can't see Iolani overcoming that. Iolani might make the games somewhat close, but close doesn't count.

I hope you only use the polls as a measuring stick and not as gospel. Believing EVERYTHING the polls say demonstrates that you've got NO willingness to think for yourself. Remember, NOBODY pegged Leilehua in 2007 to be in the same tier as St. Louis, Kamehameha, Punahou, Kahuku, Waianae, and Mililani (or even Farrington) but guess what? There is a Koa Trophy in Wahiawa that'll always say "2007 Division I State Champions". And if you think Leilehua 2007 is an aberration, look no further than Castle in 2002 and Leilehua itself in 2004. A team that's unranked could easily make its way into the Open Division playoffs, just like a highly touted team can disappoint and barely finish above .500 (looking at you, 2009 St. Louis). Polls don't tell the whole story, especially now.

@HaterOfElitists: Well, of course, we know that polls are only opinions; we know that polls don't play, teams play. Even so, you can't totally dismiss polls. If a poll says St Louis is #2, there's probably a reason, right? It's not like people just pull these numbers out of a hat. These polls are usually voted on by coaches and sportswriters, people who follow teams closely and know them pretty well. Sure, you have upsets, but by definition, upsets are exceptions to the rule. As they say, the exception proves the rule. Polls don't tell the whole story, but they tell a lot of the story.

[Markeke]

Who's picking up the airfare for all the extra outer island teams?