A proper, FAIR, football state tournament

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HaterOfElitists
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A proper, FAIR, football state tournament

Post by HaterOfElitists »

Instead of complaining about the ILH having multiple berths, why not have a state tournament that features strictly league champions?

BIIF=1 berth
MIL=1 berth
ILH=1 berth
OIA=1 berth

And for those of you that think this is unfair to the OIA, go play in traffic!

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Re: A proper, FAIR, football state tournament

Post by IFeelThat¿ »

Wrong. That isn't fair enough. What is fair is doing what is right and abolishing the OIA, ILH, BIIF, KIF, etc. and creating Divisions based on school size and population. Hawaii HS athletics will never get anything right. Private and Public schools play peacefully in divisions on the mainland.

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Re: A proper, FAIR, football state tournament

Post by soleu »

HaterOfElitists wrote:Instead of complaining about the ILH having multiple berths, why not have a state tournament that features strictly league champions?

BIIF=1 berth
MIL=1 berth
ILH=1 berth
OIA=1 berth

And for those of you that think this is unfair to the OIA, go play in traffic!
So the Maui team would have to beat out 1 team while the OIA team has to beat out 13? It's so fair.

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Re: A proper, FAIR, football state tournament

Post by soleu »

IFeelThat¿ wrote:Wrong. That isn't fair enough. What is fair is doing what is right and abolishing the OIA, ILH, BIIF, KIF, etc. and creating Divisions based on school size and population. Hawaii HS athletics will never get anything right. Private and Public schools play peacefully in divisions on the mainland.
High schools in the mainland don't have an ocean between the divisions. Some of these schools struggle to get buses for the teams but you want them to get buses and airfare involved. You can't compare the logistics of Hawaii HS sports and mainland HS sports since it's 2 completely different scenarios.

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Re: A proper, FAIR, football state tournament

Post by gridiron22 »

This would probably be the best format

Outer Island (BIIF and MIL champs play for this spot)
OIA East
OIA West
ILH

There should be no overall OIA title, just keep it east and west for simplicity reasons. Of course the old prep bowl was perfectly fine its the outer islands that wanted to get in on the action so the HHSAA was formed.

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Re: A proper, FAIR, football state tournament

Post by gridiron22 »

gridiron22 wrote:This would probably be the best format

Outer Island (BIIF and MIL champs play for this spot)
OIA East
OIA West
ILH
of course the ILH would cry and want to change the format to

- Outer Island
- OIA East
- OIA West
- ILH Mauka
- ILH Manoa
- ILH Kaimuki

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Re: A proper, FAIR, football state tournament

Post by gopunahou »

gridiron22 wrote:This would probably be the best format

Outer Island (BIIF and MIL champs play for this spot)
OIA East
OIA West
ILH

There should be no overall OIA title, just keep it east and west for simplicity reasons. Of course the old prep bowl was perfectly fine its the outer islands that wanted to get in on the action so the HHSAA was formed.
I disagree with you on a lot of things, but this is one of the few times I agree with you and think this is the best format.
Punahou Football: 12-1, 2008 ILH and State Champions! 11-0, 2013 ILH and State Champions, a team for the ages!

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Re: A proper, FAIR, football state tournament

Post by HaterOfElitists »

gopunahou wrote:
gridiron22 wrote:This would probably be the best format

Outer Island (BIIF and MIL champs play for this spot)
OIA East
OIA West
ILH

There should be no overall OIA title, just keep it east and west for simplicity reasons. Of course the old prep bowl was perfectly fine its the outer islands that wanted to get in on the action so the HHSAA was formed.
I disagree with you on a lot of things, but this is one of the few times I agree with you and think this is the best format.
The question is: will Soleu agree with gridiron22's format?

And for Soleu: you think I'm the only one that's suggested a state tournament consisting solely of league champions? Lots of people have floated this idea!

Bottom line: whoever thinks the OIA should be the only league with multiple state tournament berths can play in traffic!

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Re: A proper, FAIR, football state tournament

Post by bandits1 »

gridiron22 wrote:of course the ILH would cry and want to change the format to

- Outer Island
- OIA East
- OIA West
- ILH Mauka
- ILH Manoa
- ILH Kaimuki
Funny and likely true.

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Re: A proper, FAIR, football state tournament

Post by unpaid »

Proposals to expand both football tournaments to eight teams went nowhere at HIADA meetings so any solution will have to involve the current six-team format to have a chance at getting passed given the current landscape.

I would suggest OIA champ and runner-up. ILH champ and runner-up. MIL champ. BIIF Champ. Six teams. Don't know if the OIA would give up one berth.Kinnah doubt it....but I think this line-up would take into account the overall strength of D-I ILH football. I think the D-II tournament as it is set up now is OK.

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Re: A proper, FAIR, football state tournament

Post by gridiron22 »

unpaid wrote: I would suggest OIA champ and runner-up. ILH champ and runner-up....I think this line-up would take into account the overall strength of D-I football.
This is a valid point to argue in which I was trying to get haterofelistist to bring up but he is so full of hatred that he cant think clearly.
"The state tournament is not a true tournament if the top teams are not playing in it."

The ILH Big 3 are always in the top 5 of D1 teams so you would think that at least two of them would play in the state tourney.
Here are my answers to that question, Starting with the statistics and conference size, this alone should end this argument immediately.

- CONFERENCE SIZE
15 teams in D1 OIA = 3 entries = 19% of the league represented
3 teams in MIL = 1 entry = 33% of the league represented
3 teams in BIIF = 1 entry = 33% of the league represented
3 teams in ILH = 1 entry = 33% of the league represented

You really think in this day and age of gender/race equality that the argument of "WE ARE BETTER THEN YOU GUYS SO WE SHOULD HAVE 2 TEAMS...WHILE THE MIL/BIIF ONLY GET ONE TEAM" is gonna stand? Maybe the ILH knew this so their way around it was to create a super conference and dangle 3 million dollars in front of the OIA to prostitute themselves out and join it.

- NON-VOLATILE SPORT
Because of the physical nature, football is different from any other sport. We dont have 7 game series like the NBA or MLB where the athletes body can endure playing 80+ games a year and best of 7 games in a playoff series. In football 15 games is a lot on the athletes body so you only have one chance to beat your opponent. That is why the NFL and now NCAA have a system where ONLY the conference champs move on.

- TOO MUCH REDUNDANCY
Dove tailing off the previous point...Too much redundancy! Too much redundancy in the ILH and in the OIA. Lets start with the ILH. They end up playing each other twice in the regular season and a third time in the ILH playoffs, sometimes they may end up playing four or five times depending on tie breakers etc.. Do we really think that by the end of the ILH playoffs that the champion who had to beat his competition multiple times is not the undisputed champion? Same with the OIA, after the OIA playoffs are done the OIA champ should move on and every one else go home. If the OIA want two seats in the tourney they should split up the conference in to East/West and eliminate the OIA playoffs to prevent redundancy, this isnt basketball where you get 7 tries to beat your opponent. One and done folks!

- ILH CRYBABYS
If the ILH is home to 3 of the top 5 teams in the state and they claim that they are the strongest conference then why has their #1 team lost to the OIA the past two years and many years before that? Do we really think that the #2 ILH team would have had a better chance? The OIA #2 and #3 seat has never made it to the championship game either, the OIA#2 seat is in the same bracket of the ILH #1 and the ILH #1 has always beat them, there really is no advantage to the OIA with their 2nd and 3rd seats in the tourney, if anything the 2/3 seats are just stumbling blocks in the playoffs. Had an OIA 2 or 3 seat made it to the finals to create an all OIA title game then I can see where the ILH had an argument.

- FINAL THOUGHTS
In the 16 year history of the state tournament it has always been the OIA#1 vs. ILH#1 in the title game, I love the neighbor island teams but I think we should go back to the prep bowl format.
In 2004 Leilehua was a #3 seat and did beat St. Louis for the D1 championship but that goes back to my opinion that the OIA2/3 seats should not be in the tourney because of redundancy, they didnt win their OIA conference title but got a second chance to play for the bigger state title? If you dont win your conference go home and prepare for next year.

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Re: A proper, FAIR, football state tournament

Post by Markeke »

gridiron22 wrote:
unpaid wrote: I would suggest OIA champ and runner-up. ILH champ and runner-up....I think this line-up would take into account the overall strength of D-I football.
This is a valid point to argue in which I was trying to get haterofelistist to bring up but he is so full of hatred that he cant think clearly.
"The state tournament is not a true tournament if the top teams are not playing in it."

The ILH Big 3 are always in the top 5 of D1 teams so you would think that at least two of them would play in the state tourney.
Here are my answers to that question, Starting with the statistics and conference size, this alone should end this argument immediately.

- CONFERENCE SIZE
15 teams in D1 OIA = 3 entries = 19% of the league represented
3 teams in MIL = 1 entry = 33% of the league represented
3 teams in BIIF = 1 entry = 33% of the league represented
3 teams in ILH = 1 entry = 33% of the league represented

You really think in this day and age of gender/race equality that the argument of "WE ARE BETTER THEN YOU GUYS SO WE SHOULD HAVE 2 TEAMS...WHILE THE MIL/BIIF ONLY GET ONE TEAM" is gonna stand? Maybe the ILH knew this so their way around it was to create a super conference and dangle 3 million dollars in front of the OIA to prostitute themselves out and join it.

- NON-VOLATILE SPORT
Because of the physical nature, football is different from any other sport. We dont have 7 game series like the NBA or MLB where the athletes body can endure playing 80+ games a year and best of 7 games in a playoff series. In football 15 games is a lot on the athletes body so you only have one chance to beat your opponent. That is why the NFL and now NCAA have a system where ONLY the conference champs move on.

- TOO MUCH REDUNDANCY
Dove tailing off the previous point...Too much redundancy! Too much redundancy in the ILH and in the OIA. Lets start with the ILH. They end up playing each other twice in the regular season and a third time in the ILH playoffs, sometimes they may end up playing four or five times depending on tie breakers etc.. Do we really think that by the end of the ILH playoffs that the champion who had to beat his competition multiple times is not the undisputed champion? Same with the OIA, after the OIA playoffs are done the OIA champ should move on and every one else go home. If the OIA want two seats in the tourney they should split up the conference in to East/West and eliminate the OIA playoffs to prevent redundancy, this isnt basketball where you get 7 tries to beat your opponent. One and done folks!

- ILH CRYBABYS
If the ILH is home to 3 of the top 5 teams in the state and they claim that they are the strongest conference then why has their #1 team lost to the OIA the past two years and many years before that? Do we really think that the #2 ILH team would have had a better chance? The OIA #2 and #3 seat has never made it to the championship game either, the OIA#2 seat is in the same bracket of the ILH #1 and the ILH #1 has always beat them, there really is no advantage to the OIA with their 2nd and 3rd seats in the tourney, if anything the 2/3 seats are just stumbling blocks in the playoffs. Had an OIA 2 or 3 seat made it to the finals to create an all OIA title game then I can see where the ILH had an argument.

- FINAL THOUGHTS
In the 16 year history of the state tournament it has always been the OIA#1 vs. ILH#1 in the title game, I love the neighbor island teams but I think we should go back to the prep bowl format.
In 2004 Leilehua was a #3 seat and did beat St. Louis for the D1 championship but that goes back to my opinion that the OIA2/3 seats should not be in the tourney because of redundancy, they didnt win their OIA conference title but got a second chance to play for the bigger state title? If you dont win your conference go home and prepare for next year.
Yes gridiron, you percentage numbers are spot on as far as OIA getting a disadvantage. I thought the ILH at least have simple math as a core subject.

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Re: A proper, FAIR, football state tournament

Post by twnoexcuses »

Actually, they should just get rid of football altogether.

The concussion/brain injury/CTE risks are too high to permit youth to continue to play the game.

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Re: A proper, FAIR, football state tournament

Post by WhatEWA BEACH »

Markeke & Gridiron22,

The math/percentages actually should read:

15 teams in D1 OIA = 3 entries = 19% of the league represented
3 teams in MIL = 1 entry = 33% of the league represented
3 teams in BIIF = 1 entry = 33% of the league represented
4 teams in ILH = 1 entry = 25% of the league represented

At least that is what I remember from math classes during my public school education. :-)

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Re: A proper, FAIR, football state tournament

Post by Dog 96707 »

I thought last season was the best chance to see an all OIA state championship in Div. 1 with mil and kahuku. But once again, that didn't happen......it was OIA #1 v. ILH #1. Bottom line is this, the vast majority of fans don't want to ever see an all ILH championship, but we are all waiting to see an all OIA one. The ILH thinks they should have another team in the tournament.......The OIA and everyone else would hate that, but would love to have a 4th or 5th OIA team in. Obviously, people will always have something to say about the format and teams that are in or out. I believe it won't change anytime soon, it is what it is...............bring back the old PREP BOWL!!!!!

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