A proper, FAIR, football state tournament

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Re: A proper, FAIR, football state tournament

Post by HS Football Fanatic »

bandits1 wrote:Just curious: in the scenarios laid out above, if Pearl City decided to move back up to D1(where they belong, IMO, based on enrollment size), which of those three divisions would they go in? West with neighbor Waipahu, or Central with other-side neighbor Aiea?
@bandits1:
1. I understand that as a Pearl City alumnus, you'd like to see your alma mater in D1. But, can Pearl City handle it? The thing about enrollment is that it isn't always an indicator of which division a school belongs in for any particular sport. For example, Waipahu has an even larger enrollment than Pearl City, yet in football Waipahu got beat-up in D1 last year. This year, in D2, they seem to be doing OK. It might be the same kind of situation for Pearl City.
2. Personally, I think Pearl City should be in the West. I'm thinking back to the mid-'70s, when the Western division had two districts: Leeward and Central. If I'm not mistaken; Pearl City was in the Leeward district, along with Waipahu. That was so long ago that I can't remember for sure. If I'm correct, then it seems that it would be a nice nod to the past if Pearl City stayed in West, with Waipahu.

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Re: A proper, FAIR, football state tournament

Post by westside.gee »

From talking with several of my ILH buddies none of which are in High decision making positions just regular Alumni braddas.

- ILH D1 does not have enough participants in their league so the alliance would solve that problem and help them have more variety of games in the regular season.

- ILH D1 is not used to playing run heavy teams like Waianae/Farrington/Kahuku so to only play these teams in the state tourney is a disadvantage.

- The ILH winner always has a harder path into the state tourney because they have to beat the #2 ILH team who is a championship caliber team, in the new Open format with the #1 and #2 ILH team in the tourney the OIA will have to prove themselves the same way the ILH #1 has to prove themselves...by beating everyone in the Top 5.

- There is a distinct difference between the elite teams and the rest of the field so an Open division would make the games more competitive

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Re: A proper, FAIR, football state tournament

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westside.gee wrote:From talking with several of my ILH buddies none of which are in High decision making positions just regular Alumni braddas.

- ILH D1 does not have enough participants in their league so the alliance would solve that problem and help them have more variety of games in the regular season.

- ILH D1 is not used to playing run heavy teams like Waianae/Farrington/Kahuku so to only play these teams in the state tourney is a disadvantage.

- The ILH winner always has a harder path into the state tourney because they have to beat the #2 ILH team who is a championship caliber team, in the new Open format with the #1 and #2 ILH team in the tourney the OIA will have to prove themselves the same way the ILH #1 has to prove themselves...by beating everyone in the Top 5.

- There is a distinct difference between the elite teams and the rest of the field so an Open division would make the games more competitive
@westside.gee:

I agree with most of what you ILH buddies say, except for the second point. Kamehameha is almost always a run-heavy team.

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Re: A proper, FAIR, football state tournament

Post by bandits1 »

HS Football Fanatic wrote:@bandits1:
1. I understand that as a Pearl City alumnus, you'd like to see your alma mater in D1. But, can Pearl City handle it? The thing about enrollment is that it isn't always an indicator of which division a school belongs in for any particular sport. For example, Waipahu has an even larger enrollment than Pearl City, yet in football Waipahu got beat-up in D1 last year. This year, in D2, they seem to be doing OK. It might be the same kind of situation for Pearl City.
2. Personally, I think Pearl City should be in the West. I'm thinking back to the mid-'70s, when the Western division had two districts: Leeward and Central. If I'm not mistaken; Pearl City was in the Leeward district, along with Waipahu. That was so long ago that I can't remember for sure. If I'm correct, then it seems that it would be a nice nod to the past if Pearl City stayed in West, with Waipahu.
In the current 3-tier playoff system and assuming the OIA and ILH eventually merge and each of the three tiers only play within it's division during the regular season, yes, I definitely think Pearl City belongs back in D1 along with Waipahu and probably Kaimuki.

And, yes, Pearl City was a member of the Leeward district in sports, along with Waipahu, Nanakuli, Campbell, Waialua, Leilehua and unfortunately for everyone else, Waianae.

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Re: A proper, FAIR, football state tournament

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bandits1 wrote:
HS Football Fanatic wrote:@bandits1:
1. I understand that as a Pearl City alumnus, you'd like to see your alma mater in D1. But, can Pearl City handle it? The thing about enrollment is that it isn't always an indicator of which division a school belongs in for any particular sport. For example, Waipahu has an even larger enrollment than Pearl City, yet in football Waipahu got beat-up in D1 last year. This year, in D2, they seem to be doing OK. It might be the same kind of situation for Pearl City.
2. Personally, I think Pearl City should be in the West. I'm thinking back to the mid-'70s, when the Western division had two districts: Leeward and Central. If I'm not mistaken; Pearl City was in the Leeward district, along with Waipahu. That was so long ago that I can't remember for sure. If I'm correct, then it seems that it would be a nice nod to the past if Pearl City stayed in West, with Waipahu.
In the current 3-tier playoff system and assuming the OIA and ILH eventually merge and each of the three tiers only play within it's division during the regular season, yes, I definitely think Pearl City belongs back in D1 along with Waipahu and probably Kaimuki.

And, yes, Pearl City was a member of the Leeward district in sports, along with Waipahu, Nanakuli, Campbell, Waialua, Leilehua and unfortunately for everyone else, Waianae.
@bandits1: Yes, I know what you mean when you say, "...unfortunately for everyone else, Waianae." Back in the day, from the mid-'70s all the way to the late-'90s, Waianae was like the Kahuku of the Leeward district, as far as football was concerned.

Also, I don't know about Kaimuki being in D1. If you're going by enrollment, Kaimuki has a much lower enrollment than Waipahu or Pearl City.

And, I think Leilehua was in Central district. Whatever.

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Re: A proper, FAIR, football state tournament

Post by OG 94 »

I think this is BS that Iolani has a free ride to th D1 tourney.They could go winless and still have a chance to win a stat title. I would've suggested that the #3 and #4 team battle it out to claim that spot.

On the OIA side you could have a team like Farrington or Waianae which is an open division team can say to themselves that if they tank the rest of the season they will end up at the bottom 4 which will put them in the D1 tourney where they will have a better shot at winning it ?

On the BIIF side it makes no since to have two teams go.I predict Hilo and kealakehe to go and for kealakehe to go they will probably get runned over.They just got demolished by Damien who is a D2 team.The two best team on the big island has to be konawaena and Hilo.So why not give konawaena that shot who could compete with those D1 teams

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Re: A proper, FAIR, football state tournament

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OG 94 wrote:I think this is BS that Iolani has a free ride to th D1 tourney.They could go winless and still have a chance to win a stat title. I would've suggested that the #3 and #4 team battle it out to claim that spot.

On the OIA side you could have a team like Farrington or Waianae which is an open division team can say to themselves that if they tank the rest of the season they will end up at the bottom 4 which will put them in the D1 tourney where they will have a better shot at winning it ?

On the BIIF side it makes no since to have two teams go.I predict Hilo and kealakehe to go and for kealakehe to go they will probably get runned over.They just got demolished by Damien who is a D2 team.The two best team on the big island has to be konawaena and Hilo.So why not give konawaena that shot who could compete with those D1 teams
@OG 94: I still like the old Prep Bowl setup. I live on Oahu, and all I really care about is Oahu high-school football. I'm not saying that neighbor-island football is inferior. It's just that I've grown-up focusing on Oahu teams, just because I've lived on Oahu all my life. Oahu has so many teams; enough to keep me busy. Someone earlier in this thread said we should go back to the Prep Bowl, and I agree. Let each island do its own thing, just as they did during the Prep Bowl days. And, in a somewhat perverse way, this could be an "out" for the outer-island teams: They could always say, "Well, if there were a state tourney and we played those Oahu teams, we'd beat them." But, since there wouldn't be a state tourney, they couldn't be proved wrong. Doesn't everyone gain something? Take me back to the good ole days. Newer isn't always better.

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Re: A proper, FAIR, football state tournament

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OG 94 wrote:I think this is BS that Iolani has a free ride to th D1 tourney.They could go winless and still have a chance to win a stat title. I would've suggested that the #3 and #4 team battle it out to claim that spot.
Iolani could not even show up to their regular season games and make the D1 state tourney.
OG 94 wrote:On the OIA side you could have a team like Farrington or Waianae which is an open division team can say to themselves that if they tank the rest of the season they will end up at the bottom 4 which will put them in the D1 tourney where they will have a better shot at winning it ?
I doubt teams like Farrington or Kamehameha would ever volunteer to move down and play for the D1 title. It would be meaningless to programs of that caliber, and it would be double-shame if either of them somehow got upset by a legit D1 team like Moanalua or Kailua and failed to win it.
OG 94 wrote:On the BIIF side it makes no since to have two teams go.I predict Hilo and kealakehe to go and for kealakehe to go they will probably get runned over.They just got demolished by Damien who is a D2 team.The two best team on the big island has to be konawaena and Hilo.So why not give konawaena that shot who could compete with those D1 teams
Yeah, if this new 3-tier alignment sticks, BIIF should really move Konawaena up to D1.

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Re: A proper, FAIR, football state tournament

Post by bandits1 »

bandits1 wrote:
OG 94 wrote:I think this is BS that Iolani has a free ride to th D1 tourney.They could go winless and still have a chance to win a stat title. I would've suggested that the #3 and #4 team battle it out to claim that spot.
Iolani could not even show up to their regular season games and make the D1 state tourney.
OG 94 wrote:On the OIA side you could have a team like Farrington or Waianae which is an open division team can say to themselves that if they tank the rest of the season they will end up at the bottom 4 which will put them in the D1 tourney where they will have a better shot at winning it ?
I doubt teams like Farrington or Kamehameha would ever volunteer to move down and play for the D1 title. It would be meaningless to programs of that caliber, and it would be double-shame if either of them somehow got upset by a legit D1 team like Moanalua or Kailua and failed to win it. It's a lose-lose situation for Open-caliber programs even if they end up never, ever winning an Open title.
OG 94 wrote:On the BIIF side it makes no since to have two teams go.I predict Hilo and kealakehe to go and for kealakehe to go they will probably get runned over.They just got demolished by Damien who is a D2 team.The two best team on the big island has to be konawaena and Hilo.So why not give konawaena that shot who could compete with those D1 teams
Yeah, if this new 3-tier alignment sticks, BIIF should really move Konawaena up to D1.

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