2016 Judo season

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ringworm
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Re: 2016 Judo season

Post by ringworm »

Next week OIA'S it seems like the ones to beat will be Kapolei on the boys side and I'll predict Pearl City girls. They won 6 of 10 weight classes and had 2 runner ups too. I wouldn't count out Roosevelt but I would give edge to Pearl City.

Cyber Ninja808
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Re: 2016 Judo season

Post by Cyber Ninja808 »

ILH results
Boys
Final team scores
1, Iolani 180 points. 2, Punahou 111. 3, Mid-Pacific 87. 4, Pac-Five 71. 5, Kamehameha 70. 6, Damien 35. 7, Saint Louis 26.

Individual results
108 pounds
1, Landon Obra, Damien. 2, Tyler Ibarra, Saint Louis. 3, Dayne Torigoe, Iolani. 4, Casen Watanabe, Punahou. 5, Dylan Yee, Iolani. 6, Marc Armas, Damien.
114 pounds
1, Hunter Fujiwara, Iolani. 2, Kyler Asao, Mid-Pacific. 3, Preston Gonsalves, Saint Louis. 4, Hunter Nishikawa, Punahou. 6, Philip Park, Iolani.
121 pounds
1, Colby Watase, Iolani. 2, Travis Won, Iolani. 3, Justin Abe, Punahou. 4, James Kwon, Punahou. 5, Evan Nishida, Mid-Pacific. 6, Kerry Mizota, Mid-Pacific.
132 pounds
1, Makana Wong, Kamehameha. 2, Cameron Nishida, Mid-Pacific. 3, Jacob Montez, Mid-Pacific. 4, Kai Nakamura, Pac-Five. 5, Kaimiloa Ah Mook Sang, Punahou. 6, Bryce Takemoto, Saint Louis.
145 pounds
1, Nicolas Nakaoka, Punahou. 2, Zachary Bell, Pac-Five. 3, Chad Sanehira, Iolani. 4, Alex Mimura, Mid-Pacific. 5, Hollis Tam, Pac-Five. 6, Sheldon Rosa, Kamehameha.
161 pounds
1, Luke Horiuchi, Pac-Five. 2, Ryne Sato, Punahou. 3, Kaysen Takenaka, Iolani. 4, Patrix Asuncion, Damien. 5, Devin Acton, Saint Louis. 6, Adam Taira, Punahou.
178 pounds
1, KJ Pascua, Iolani. 2, Kama Suzuki Scott, Kamehameha. 3, Alakai Mashima, Punahou. 4, Tyler Kawakami, Punahou. 5, Alex Wong, Pac-Five. 6, Kekuewa Wong, Pac-Five.
198 pounds
1, Saiaiga Fautanu, Iolani. 2, Amir Mirza, Kamehameha. 3, Kamaehu Beltrame-Aila, Kamehameha. 4, Michael Egami, Punahou. 5, Blake Furuta, Punahou. 6, Hunter Guerrero, Saint Louis.
220 pounds
1, Trinity Fautanu, Pac-Five. 2, Charles Kam, Iolani. 3, Jalvin Sato, Punahou. 4, Cody Noh, Saint Louis.
285 pounds
1, Dane Yamashiro, Iolani. 2, Aiden Tse, Mid-Pacific. 3, Dylan Yang, Saint Louis.

girls
Final team scores
1, Punahou 147 points. 2, Kamehameha 102. 3, Iolani 87. 4, Damien 73. 5, Mid-Pacific 55. 6, Pac-Five 31.

Individual results
98 pounds
1, Jenna Enoka, Punahou. 2, Sarah Obra-Nakata, Punahou. 3, Paige Francyzk, Damien. 4, Karly Ayano, Pac-Five. 5, Mia Delara, Mid-Pacific. 6, Mia Kennedy, Mid-Pacific.
103 pounds
1, Bailey Hoshino, Punahou. 2, Kari Tanji, Iolani. 3, Jade Nakashima, Mid-Pacific. 4, Sydni Kim, Iolani. 5, Kelsey Arreza, Damien.
109 pounds
1, Hilinai Meyer, Kamehameha. 2, Kaitlin Ito, Pac-Five. 3, Robyn Yim, Iolani. 4, Emily Fujioka, Punahou. 5, Deanna Otsu, Mid-Pacific. 6, Cori Ann Morioka-Kam, Damien.
115 pounds
1, Claire Shao, Iolani. 2, Cierra Nakamura, Iolani. 3, Kristen Koike, Punahou. 4, Brenna Flores, Damien. 5, Tia Go, Damien.
122 pounds
1, Taryn Ichimura, Punahou. 2, Tia Inoue, Punahou. 3, Taylor Lau, Iolani. 4, Kiarra Young, Punahou. 5, Anela Chow, Kamehameha. 6, Bryndall Mcaluney, Mid-Pacific.
129 pounds
1, Teniya Alo, Iolani. 2, Alai Takushi, Kamehameha. 3, Keiko Sanders, Pac-Five. 4, Ming Cheng-Leever, Punahou. 5, Charysse Ueunten, Kamehameha. 6, Nicole Kaneshiro, Punahou.
139 pounds
1, Teshya Alo, Kamehameha. 2, Wisdom Matsuzaki, Punahou. 3, Montana Carter, Damien. 4, Zoe Nigg, Mid-Pacific. 5, Caiya Nii, Kamehameha. 6, Isabella Velasquez, Mid-Pacific.
154 pounds
1, Jaclyn Fontanilla, Kamehameha. 2, Kaili Labanon, Damien. 3, Kelsey Kim, Punahou. 4, Aaliyah White, Damien. 5, Lainey Sanborn, Pac-Five. 6, Sophia Stratton, Punahou.
172 pounds
1, Kamalei Marrotte, Kamehameha. 2, Kilinoe Gora, Damien. 3, Chynna Ancheta, Mid-Pacific. 4, Dynalynn Suguitan, Damien.
220 pounds
1, Frances Nosis, Damien. 2, Kelsi Julian-Araki, Mid-Pacific.

ringworm
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Re: 2016 Judo season

Post by ringworm »

State championship this Saturday my take on boys. Need help with girls.

108 Obra
114 Otsuka
121 Wusstig
132 Brett
145 Tateyama
161 Salangdron
178 Pascua
198 Okura
220 Tongi
285 Yamashiro

stonecoldstunner
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Re: 2016 Judo season

Post by stonecoldstunner »

I'll give the girls a try by predicting the finals matches

98. Enoka vs. Higa
103. Tamang vs. Yamamoto
109. Meyer vs. Abe
115. Higa vs. Pineda-Abaya
122. Ho vs. Ichimura
129. Tateyama vs. Higa
139. Alo vs. Towata
154. Fontanilla vs. Araki
172. Ayers vs. Fuamatu
220. Samia vs. Umu

Team championship is a toss-up between Pearl City and Roosevelt.

stonecoldstunner
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Re: 2016 Judo season

Post by stonecoldstunner »

Congratulations to all the judoka who competed on Saturday at the state tournament. State tournament was well run and proceeded pretty smoothly throughout. Exciting matches on both the boys and girls side. Kapolei boys ran away with the team title as most predicted. Roosevelt girls pulled it out by a single point over PC in the final girls match of the day.

The one thing I was truly disappointed in was the officiating. Horrible calls all the way through the tournament. Many kids were cheated out of a title or chance for advancement because of really shoddy officiating. And the officials selected to run the championship mat were the worst ones of all. Questionable calls, missed calls, too many shidos. It seems we are losing the spirit of the art in pursuit of the sport. The referees seem to be rewarding bad judo and defensive play to win by shido. I don't like it.

from the stands
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Re: 2016 Judo season

Post by from the stands »

stonecoldstunner wrote: It seems we are losing the spirit of the art in pursuit of the sport. The referees seem to be rewarding bad judo and defensive play to win by shido. I don't like it.
Hahaha....Yes, Highschool (Competition) Judo is all about the SPORT. At no time is the goal of highschool Judo the ART. Bonus points are not awarded based on the beauty of a technique but rather its simple effectiveness. And not even effectiveness of a throw but often times the effectiveness of a grip or a stance. But those rules & priorities are dictated from a National and International level.

The ART of Judo requires more time than just seasonal participation. it takes year around commitment. The true ART of Judo takes so much more effort that the SPORT of Judo often becomes the chosen path.
You don't hear the phrase "Ippon Judo" any longer.....that's simply left to the minority who choose to make it a personal goal / priority.

Its currently all about tactics....

stonecoldstunner
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Re: 2016 Judo season

Post by stonecoldstunner »

To your point, I get what you're saying. The majority of high school judoka are seasonal players. But even among the club players, there seems to be a dilution of the art. For instance, only a handful of kids sweep properly.... most are just kicking. And I'm referring to the year round club players. And some of those players and their coaches are resorting to gripping and defensive tactics to force shidos on their opponents to earn a victory. Is it really all about winning? In my head and heart, judo is still a combat art and I am sad to see the diminishing of the warrior spirit among the young generation coming up through the ranks. I, for one, would want to win or lose a championship by ippon..... returning home with my shield or on it, as the saying goes. Winning a championship by shido seems to cheapen the victory. At least, that is my stance on the matter. Too old school, maybe.

And I understand that it's coming down from on high. But can't the referees control the match as they see fit? For instance, regular season NBA vs. playoff/championship series NBA - in the postseason, the play is markedly more physical and the players are allowed to play. Can't the judo referees decide before the matches start that they will allow more latitude for players to encourage more "ippon judo"? I understand calling shido to discourage stalling and promote action, but other calls can be overlooked if they do not interrupt or change the flow or outcome of the match.

Thanks for your reply and opinion, nice to have a sounding board.

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Re: 2016 Judo season

Post by ProudDad »

"Old School" Judo was much more dynamic, pure and most closely tied in to the combat aspect of the sport which I surely enjoyed and now surely miss. The skill level of this year's State Championship was so watered down that it looked more like two combatants pushing and shoving. Even the so called "club" players techniques were so one dimensional that you knew what throw they were going to use beforehand. Most of these players would not have won a State Title if they played 5 yrs ago. And lastly I couldn't believe in that finals match that the girl that needed to fix her hair and belt wasn't called for Shido's. Her opponent was clearly the one robbed of a State Title.

ringworm
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Re: 2016 Judo season

Post by ringworm »

I seen a match that was probably 15 minutes long that was decided by a stalling penalty. It's very hard to have a match so even that there was zero negative judo for 15 minutes. Ippon judo is fading away especially when you can win by a shido. For a few years now it don't matter if you throw for ippon or win by one line shido the result is the same you win. I've seen matches that the person stepped out in the first 20 seconds and after 4 minutes they lost because of it and I'm not talking dualmeet matches it's like league championships. One the other hand I still see good judo from a lot of players. I recall at least one girls match where she swept her opponent with a nice sweep that probably could have been for a ippon but was given a wazaari. She controlled the other girl with grip techniques and relentless pressure and her opponent had racked up 3 shidos for stalling and defensive posture. I've seen clean throws in the finals too. Sadly though that one girls match was terrible. It shouldn't have gone to golden score it was clear who should have won and the business of the 4th referee coming on the mat swaying the judges to give that shido was iffy.

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Re: 2016 Judo season

Post by _sportcourt »

ProudDad wrote:"Old School" Judo was much more dynamic, pure and most closely tied in to the combat aspect of the sport which I surely enjoyed and now surely miss. The skill level of this year's State Championship was so watered down that it looked more like two combatants pushing and shoving. Even the so called "club" players techniques were so one dimensional that you knew what throw they were going to use beforehand. Most of these players would not have won a State Title if they played 5 yrs ago. And lastly I couldn't believe in that finals match that the girl that needed to fix her hair and belt wasn't called for Shido's. Her opponent was clearly the one robbed of a State Title.
Agree with this assesment

time to shut this sport down, literally cant handle watching it anymore

talloola25
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Re: 2016 Judo season

Post by talloola25 »

Do you think it would improve if the players would receive bonus points(like in wrestling) for winning by different ways? That way earning an ippon would result in earning more points for the teams, thus making the individuals fight harder round by round for those higher points. As it is, you simply get credit for placing regardless of how you win each match. I know it makes a difference in wrestling, do you feel it might help judo as well?

ringworm
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Re: 2016 Judo season

Post by ringworm »

In dual meets the way you win equals points ippon=10 wazaari=7 yuko=5 shido 3 and dq=10. I believe in states only the top 6 can score points and it's like 16 for first and 14 or 12 for 2nd and it keeps going down. There is no relationship to how you win the score just win or lose at states.

talloola25
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Re: 2016 Judo season

Post by talloola25 »

ringworm wrote:In dual meets the way you win equals points ippon=10 wazaari=7 yuko=5 shido 3 and dq=10. I believe in states only the top 6 can score points and it's like 16 for first and 14 or 12 for 2nd and it keeps going down. There is no relationship to how you win the score just win or lose at states.
I understand that, what I am proposing is that you change the tournament scoring to reward how you win. So, instead of simply using placement points, you would give +1pt for yuko victory, +2pts for waza-ari, and +3pts for ippon(no data behind those numbers, just throwing things out there. It could easily be 1, 1.5, 2). That way a player is more likely to go for the higher victory route to help his team out.

stonecoldstunner
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Re: 2016 Judo season

Post by stonecoldstunner »

That might help in the state tournament for those teams that are in contention for the title. But I think the issue goes deeper than that. Are the players being taught or coached differently to eke out a win? It seems that coaches look for ways to neutralize a stronger opponent and gamble on the referees calling enough shidos to win a match. It is certainly not wrong or unsportsmanlike and perhaps it can be argued that they are the ones playing the game better than anyone. But it seems to lack the honor and substance of winning by ippon. Or at least ATTEMPTING to win by ippon.

Since the advent of the rule change that allowed shidos to decide the outcome of matches, I've seen more and more of that kind of judo. It's frustrating to watch, to say the least. An average player makes it his mission to "grip and go" and dive in for bad throw attempts, but they are considered attacks nonetheless. Time after time he does this, not giving his better opponent a chance to work a grip and set up a throw. Shido called, match continues as such until time runs out. Lesser opponent wins an ugly match. Or strong judoka facing judoka of equal caliber and gets both sides sleeve grip. Jerk down and then run around mat, dragging opponent around until shido for defensive posturing is called. Then just stave off attacks until time runs out, match over, win by shido. These are just a couple of the "tactics" I've seen over the last few years. Frustrating to say the least.

Again, maybe I'm too old school, but how do you look yourself in the mirror and be proud that you won a title that way? It seems chicken$**t to me. As a player, wouldn't you want to go toe-to-toe with someone and win or lose knowing you were going for it all? All the greats played that way. And I still think that the referees can control and influence the play on the mat by being more judicious with their calls. Stop rewarding "shido judo" and force them to attempt "ippon judo". Once coaches and sensei see that "shido judo" is no longer being rewarded, maybe the spirit of "ippon judo" will return.

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Re: 2016 Judo season

Post by Ramashack »

these are the facts:

Girls Finals Matches (10 total): 6 - Ippon; 2 - Wazaari; 0 - yuko; 2 - shido
Boys Finals Matches (10 total): 7 - Ippon; 3 - Wazaari; 0 - yuko; 0 - shido

So out of 20 matches there were 2 decided by Shido? It is part of the scoring system....it always has been in various fashions.
What about the 13 decided by Ippon or the 5 more decided by Wazaari?
18 of 20 finals matches decided by significant scores.

Both players own responsibility if the match comes down to a shido call. Each had 4 minutes, sometime more, to throw.

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