Leading Concussion Dr. says no football before Age 18

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OldManJenkins
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Re: Leading Concussion Dr. says no football before Age 18

Post by OldManJenkins »

So there is truth to the "dumb football player" stereotype?
The Almighty GrumpyOldManJenkins coaching from right field is back.. and older

soleu
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Re: Leading Concussion Dr. says no football before Age 18

Post by soleu »

OldManJenkins wrote: All I'm saying is that if a kid wants to play knowing the risks, let him play. I'm not going to force the sport on them but if they choose to play, why not prepare them for the game instead of shutting it down altogether?
It is great you are willing to let your kid get exposed to head trauma. All the preventative measures being done will not safe guard the kids, it makes only makes it safer. Kids are not in any way in a position to make the choice to play. Parents need to make the initiative to educate themselves and make the choice they feel is right based on the facts and statistics they uncover. To be close minded and stick you head in the sand is not acceptable.
Knowing the effects of alcohol is it OK to allow your kids to drink? Apparently the government believes you need to be 21 to make that choice on your own.
I believe the twnoexcuses guy is trying to say pull your heads out of your butts and educate yourself, then make a decision... not excuses or rationals.
if football and soccer are so bad, making my kid play would be child abuse or endangerment?[/quote]

Maybe I shouldn't take my kids to the park for fear of skin cancer from the sun and lung cancer from 2nd hand smoke. Please. There's risks and there's calculated risks. I've seen more reward than harm from football than I do from drinking so what was the point there? Can drinking get you a full ride scholarship or instill life lessons that drinking can? Relevance please.

I remembered when we were 8+ and were playing tackle go water, smear the queer, etc. without our parents permission. At that age, if the kids want them to play, I'd say let them. Prepare them for the game or don't, your choice. I'm not ignoring the research. I'm also watching how the game is changing due to the results.

It's like driving on the road, you can never be completely safe. That doesn't mean we walk everywhere. Personal driver safety and awareness decrease the chances of an accident. I'll present the info to my kids. If they choose to play, I'll take responsibility to help teach them proper form and field awareness. The choice is there's still.

twnoexcuses
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Re: Leading Concussion Dr. says no football before Age 18

Post by twnoexcuses »

soleu wrote: Maybe I shouldn't take my kids to the park for fear of skin cancer from the sun and lung cancer from 2nd hand smoke. Please. There's risks and there's calculated risks. I've seen more reward than harm from football than I do from drinking so what was the point there? Can drinking get you a full ride scholarship or instill life lessons that drinking can? Relevance please.

I remembered when we were 8+ and were playing tackle go water, smear the queer, etc. without our parents permission. At that age, if the kids want them to play, I'd say let them. Prepare them for the game or don't, your choice. I'm not ignoring the research. I'm also watching how the game is changing due to the results.

It's like driving on the road, you can never be completely safe. That doesn't mean we walk everywhere. Personal driver safety and awareness decrease the chances of an accident. I'll present the info to my kids. If they choose to play, I'll take responsibility to help teach them proper form and field awareness. The choice is there's still.
The "calculated risk" you're taking, though, is that your kid is playing a sport where a fundamental purpose, technique and result, if not aspiration, is that most, players on the field engage in significant bodily impact at high speeds travelling in both directions, numerous times a game. For those players in positions where one team does not want contact to occur, the opposing team WANTS the contact if at all possible.

Considering that those bodily impacts are at levels on a regular basis that are strong enough to cause concussions, and that the scientific evidence now indicates a high possibility if not likelihood of brain altering brain injury without concussion symptoms, how does your calculation equal up to it being safe for a kid to play the sport?

I'm not following the math.

twnoexcuses
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Re: Leading Concussion Dr. says no football before Age 18

Post by twnoexcuses »

Also, the arguments I make are not, by any stretch of the imagination particularly insightful.

They are "the Emporer has no clothes" arguments.

I'm waiting for an NFL broadcast play-by-play guy, or a local sports TV or radio personality, or Football Head Coach, or a POLITICIAN to start the discussion regarding "no more" as to minors.

The extent to which none of them has gone out on that plank is just so disappointing and mind boggling.

soleu
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Re: Leading Concussion Dr. says no football before Age 18

Post by soleu »

twnoexcuses wrote:Also, the arguments I make are not, by any stretch of the imagination particularly insightful.

They are "the Emporer has no clothes" arguments.

I'm waiting for an NFL broadcast play-by-play guy, or a local sports TV or radio personality, or Football Head Coach, or a POLITICIAN to start the discussion regarding "no more" as to minors.

The extent to which none of them has gone out on that plank is just so disappointing and mind boggling.
There's your issue right there. You have an issue with ALL MINORS. If yours can't play, all can't play. I'm giving the choice while you're dictating the issue. I'll just agree to disagree with you. Physical and mental damage from the game is nothing new. It should be common sense from a collision sport. I was willing to take that risk along with my teammates. I'll give that same option to my kids. If they don't want to play because of the presented risks, why should I ban EVERYONE ELSE?

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Re: Leading Concussion Dr. says no football before Age 18

Post by twnoexcuses »

soleu wrote:
twnoexcuses wrote:Also, the arguments I make are not, by any stretch of the imagination particularly insightful.

They are "the Emporer has no clothes" arguments.

I'm waiting for an NFL broadcast play-by-play guy, or a local sports TV or radio personality, or Football Head Coach, or a POLITICIAN to start the discussion regarding "no more" as to minors.

The extent to which none of them has gone out on that plank is just so disappointing and mind boggling.
There's your issue right there. You have an issue with ALL MINORS. If yours can't play, all can't play. I'm giving the choice while you're dictating the issue. I'll just agree to disagree with you. Physical and mental damage from the game is nothing new. It should be common sense from a collision sport. I was willing to take that risk along with my teammates. I'll give that same option to my kids. If they don't want to play because of the presented risks, why should I ban EVERYONE ELSE?

I guess that's a pretty effective (right now) position to take as a fall back (but in my mind, a dubious one).

It's not MY decision. It's my KID's decision!

Kinda appears to me to be a last stand argument/rationalization of sorts for kids playing tackle football. With all the evidence and findings emerging out there, hard to justify it as being based on your own desires and decision, eh???

soleu
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Re: Leading Concussion Dr. says no football before Age 18

Post by soleu »

twnoexcuses wrote: I guess that's a pretty effective (right now) position to take as a fall back (but in my mind, a dubious one).

It's not MY decision. It's my KID's decision!

Kinda appears to me to be a last stand argument/rationalization of sorts for kids playing tackle football. With all the evidence and findings emerging out there, hard to justify it as being based on your own desires and decision, eh???
Findings? You act like QB's like Steve Young and Bubby Brister in the 80's and 90's have never been diagnosed with a concussion? Lemme guess, boxing gloves, braces, and football pads were believed to mean no injuries in the last century right?

Yet let's ignore the concussion protocol that's still a work in progress and new rules have been added to the game? With rugby being more prevalent in Hawaii and Pete Carroll being a testament to those techniques, are we ignoring a safer football? I find it funny coming from the guy throwing the "head in the sand judgement" around. It's still a risk, but a lesser risk then when we played.

The facts will be presented and the choice will be made. Let's not be ignorant and act like we didn't know the risks of the game all along. I'll do the same with them playing baseball. If they want to play, I'll teach them the right way. I don't see you stopping them with the number of TJ surgeries taking off as compared to a couple decades before.

Some parents maybe more prepared than you when it comes to the "I want to play football" time. Why speak and decide for them? Oh, my bad. Does that count as another "rationalization".

twnoexcuses
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Re: Leading Concussion Dr. says no football before Age 18

Post by twnoexcuses »

soleu wrote:
twnoexcuses wrote: I guess that's a pretty effective (right now) position to take as a fall back (but in my mind, a dubious one).

It's not MY decision. It's my KID's decision!

Kinda appears to me to be a last stand argument/rationalization of sorts for kids playing tackle football. With all the evidence and findings emerging out there, hard to justify it as being based on your own desires and decision, eh???
Findings? You act like QB's like Steve Young and Bubby Brister in the 80's and 90's have never been diagnosed with a concussion? Lemme guess, boxing gloves, braces, and football pads were believed to mean no injuries in the last century right?

Yet let's ignore the concussion protocol that's still a work in progress and new rules have been added to the game? With rugby being more prevalent in Hawaii and Pete Carroll being a testament to those techniques, are we ignoring a safer football? I find it funny coming from the guy throwing the "head in the sand judgement" around. It's still a risk, but a lesser risk then when we played.

The facts will be presented and the choice will be made. Let's not be ignorant and act like we didn't know the risks of the game all along. I'll do the same with them playing baseball. If they want to play, I'll teach them the right way. I don't see you stopping them with the number of TJ surgeries taking off as compared to a couple decades before.

Some parents maybe more prepared than you when it comes to the "I want to play football" time. Why speak and decide for them? Oh, my bad. Does that count as another "rationalization".

The facts are not being presented in any sort of meaningful or comprehensive way. IF the facts were being presented, then the Purdue studies, for instance, would be distributed AND explained in layman's terms at youth football parent meetings, the PBS documentary Frontline documentary "League of Denial" ( http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/ ... of-denial/ ) and the various HBO Real Sports segments on concussion and brain injury (e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKIYAtnLLOA ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pw27yRTzZXQ ) would be played and made mandatory viewing.

To me, the problem with concussion protocols currently are that they presume that during an certain activity like football, it's OK to get a concussion in the first place (the new argument being, "because, now we have protocols!"). And, THEN, the protocols are only administered IF THERE IS VISUAL EVIDENCE OF A CONCUSSION (e.g. black out, weird responses to questions, trouble balancing or walking).

However, football raises the possibilities to almost certainties for certain positions if you read the the Purdue studies, AND it's becoming apparent that not all brain injuring hits result in classically observable concussions symptoms: e.g. Hits to the side of the head apparently bring classic, observable concussion symptoms like physical instability, altered speech, nausea etc., while head on hits to the front of the head don't due to the areas of the brain impacted. Yet brain scans reveal diminished brain activity by both types of hits, only one is concussion symptom free.

This is an article by Sports Illustrated (buried by the media generally) that should really scare: http://www.si.com/vault/2010/11/01/1060 ... amage-done

Scared the willies out of me, and I'd already made my decisions about youth football.

I disagree that the facts will be presented. I agree that choices will be made. That's a HUGE problem.

But, as you proceed, please, feel free to share the facts I have with your kids. If you coach, share them with your team and their parents. So that the facts can get a good airing.
Last edited by twnoexcuses on Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:06 am, edited 2 times in total.

kauwildman
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Re: Leading Concussion Dr. says no football before Age 18

Post by kauwildman »

I'll preface by saying that football before high school age is madness not only for the risk factors but also the poor level of coaching found there. But, assuming that quality coaching and safety standards are in place, high school football is a worthwhile experience in the education of young men. Young men are notorious risk takers and will find an outlet for pent up energy and thrill seeking. Choose your poison. Whether its football or motocross or MMA or gang banging, a certain portion of young men will gravitate to dangerous activity. It's part of the maturation of a warrior class. Some folks don't want to hear it this way but if you attempt to feminize every activity you will end up with two results. Either you will pussify an entire generation of young men OR they will make choices that are far worse than high school football.

twnoexcuses
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Re: Leading Concussion Dr. says no football before Age 18

Post by twnoexcuses »

kauwildman wrote:I'll preface by saying that football before high school age is madness not only for the risk factors but also the poor level of coaching found there. But, assuming that quality coaching and safety standards are in place, high school football is a worthwhile experience in the education of young men. Young men are notorious risk takers and will find an outlet for pent up energy and thrill seeking. Choose your poison. Whether its football or motocross or MMA or gang banging, a certain portion of young men will gravitate to dangerous activity. It's part of the maturation of a warrior class. Some folks don't want to hear it this way but if you attempt to feminize every activity you will end up with two results. Either you will pussify an entire generation of young men OR they will make choices that are far worse than high school football.

So interesting that you equate the desire to play football with a "warrior" class, when our true modern day warriors are being trained in depersonalized warfare.

Killing or incapacitating as efficiently, assuredly and from as far away as possible is the modern military goal, and preventing, as opposed to encouraging getting hit in any way is an imperative for the "players".

twnoexcuses
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Re: Leading Concussion Dr. says no football before Age 18

Post by twnoexcuses »

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/11/health/fo ... =obnetwork

p.s. This stuff ain't filtering down to the pop warner type level. I just watched a couple episodes of Friday Nite Tykes on Netflix. Nuts based on the information out there.

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Re: Leading Concussion Dr. says no football before Age 18

Post by twnoexcuses »

As the new high school/pop warner/big boy/etc. season(s) starts, bumping this thread.

The relative silence on this issue is deafening and disturbing.

The State is throwing $450,000 at the issue, spread over a number of years. To deal with concussions they KNOW will happen in the football games they produce, finance and then make money off of.

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