2016 Wrestling Speculation and Nonsense

[OldManJenkins]

Nobody seems to dispute the fact that Ray is a crap okole Ref yet he is still there and determining final matches and who gets to the finals. When will there be a real system for evaluating the refs and at least try to make them better. Wait! are they state or cc workers? It would surely explain a lot.
You have arrogant refs who blatantly make up their own rules, decide when to enforce (or ignore) rules and some even ignore the coaches that are call for an explanation or protest (like the ref that continued the match with the coach at the table).
You guys keep talking about growing the sport first you need to fix this type of crap that discourages kids.

[Peanut Gallery]

There is a problem with all the moaning and crying about the humanoids who referee wrestling.

They are human, they miss calls. News flash, they miss calls in MLB, multiple times a game. They miss calls in the NFL and then replay them 20 times in super slow motion high definition and miss them again. Some of these guys are paid a half a million a year!

This is an improvable situation, not a correctable one. Where there are humans, there are errors. Get over the referring, generally good and not as bad as made out to be on this blog.

More important than perfect referring is learning. Referees setting good examples, coaches setting good examples, parents setting good examples. I saw an immense amount of good sportsmanship in the Neal Blaisdell Center Friday and Saturday.

If someone acts like an idiot and gets called out on a blog, that is not a bad thing, once in a while many of us lose it, all of us kids and adults are emotional, a lot has been invested. Forgive and keep giving to this great sport.

News flash, Zack Diamond 2 time Fargo All American, doing it in back to back years is one of the very best high school wrestlers in Hawaii this year, without question, easy top 10 and probably top 5. P4P is a myth for old guys to offer more than there 2 cents worth.

Liam Corbett is probably one of top 5 wrestlers coming out of Hawaii in the last 5 years, I see only 1 Cooper, and 1 Terao who have looked better than he. KJ put BIG heat on him and Liam came up huger than huge. He is a champion. Give the boy his props!

Time to help, go to work to make Hawaii youth wrestlers better!

[FoxMulder]

There is a problem with all the moaning and crying about the humanoids who referee wrestling.

They are human, they miss calls. News flash, they miss calls in MLB, multiple times a game. They miss calls in the NFL and then replay them 20 times in super slow motion high definition and miss them again. Some of these guys are paid a half a million a year!

This is an improvable situation, not a correctable one. Where there are humans, there are errors. Get over the referring, generally good and not as bad as made out to be on this blog.

More important than perfect referring is learning. Referees setting good examples, coaches setting good examples, parents setting good examples. I saw an immense amount of good sportsmanship in the Neal Blaisdell Center Friday and Saturday.

If someone acts like an idiot and gets called out on a blog, that is not a bad thing, once in a while many of us lose it, all of us kids and adults are emotional, a lot has been invested. Forgive and keep giving to this great sport.

News flash, Zack Diamond 2 time Fargo All American, doing it in back to back years is one of the very best high school wrestlers in Hawaii this year, without question, easy top 10 and probably top 5. P4P is a myth for old guys to offer more than there 2 cents worth.

Liam Corbett is probably one of top 5 wrestlers coming out of Hawaii in the last 5 years, I see only 1 Cooper, and 1 Terao who have looked better than he. KJ put BIG heat on him and Liam came up huger than huge. He is a champion. Give the boy his props!

Time to help, go to work to make Hawaii youth wrestlers better!

I agree that refs make mistakes and that mistakes are made regularly in anything. The problem isn't so much the mistakes but consistent mistakes and a lot refs trying to justify themselves rather than owning up to the mistakes. We expect the kids to bounce back and man up after a loss (whether is was a fair match or could be attributed to bad calls) but we're expected to just accept the refs on there mistakes.

Your suggesting that coaches, wrestlers, spectators, and parents are supposed to shut their mouth about bad reffing and just accept it for what it is. That's fair, but has a ref ever apologized for a bad or missed call or do they all just look for justification; what are the refs doing to improve. Usually if one or two ppl are complaining it's unjustified and outlier cases but when it's a mass of complaints there is usually an actual problem.

I personally think that the reffing isn't that bad and has improved. I also think that refs have a tough job and I personally wouldn't want to be a ref. However I do think that refs need to grow some balls and accept when a bad call was made and that when a bad call is made its going to be talked about.

[twnoexcuses]

There is a problem with all the moaning and crying about the humanoids who referee wrestling.

They are human, they miss calls. News flash, they miss calls in MLB, multiple times a game. They miss calls in the NFL and then replay them 20 times in super slow motion high definition and miss them again. Some of these guys are paid a half a million a year!

This is an improvable situation, not a correctable one. Where there are humans, there are errors. Get over the referring, generally good and not as bad as made out to be on this blog.

More important than perfect referring is learning. Referees setting good examples, coaches setting good examples, parents setting good examples. I saw an immense amount of good sportsmanship in the Neal Blaisdell Center Friday and Saturday.

If someone acts like an idiot and gets called out on a blog, that is not a bad thing, once in a while many of us lose it, all of us kids and adults are emotional, a lot has been invested. Forgive and keep giving to this great sport.

News flash, Zack Diamond 2 time Fargo All American, doing it in back to back years is one of the very best high school wrestlers in Hawaii this year, without question, easy top 10 and probably top 5. P4P is a myth for old guys to offer more than there 2 cents worth.

Liam Corbett is probably one of top 5 wrestlers coming out of Hawaii in the last 5 years, I see only 1 Cooper, and 1 Terao who have looked better than he. KJ put BIG heat on him and Liam came up huger than huge. He is a champion. Give the boy his props!

Time to help, go to work to make Hawaii youth wrestlers better!

I agree that refs make mistakes and that mistakes are made regularly in anything. The problem isn't so much the mistakes but consistent mistakes and a lot refs trying to justify themselves rather than owning up to the mistakes. We expect the kids to bounce back and man up after a loss (whether is was a fair match or could be attributed to bad calls) but we're expected to just accept the refs on there mistakes.

Your suggesting that coaches, wrestlers, spectators, and parents are supposed to shut their mouth about bad reffing and just accept it for what it is. That's fair, but has a ref ever apologized for a bad or missed call or do they all just look for justification; what are the refs doing to improve. Usually if one or two ppl are complaining it's unjustified and outlier cases but when it's a mass of complaints there is usually an actual problem.

I personally think that the reffing isn't that bad and has improved. I also think that refs have a tough job and I personally wouldn't want to be a ref. However I do think that refs need to grow some balls and accept when a bad call was made and that when a bad call is made its going to be talked about.

Bad calls are not all by definition "mistakes".

The problem with the Corbett/Pascua referee was that at least one of his bad calls (the stalling) was an intentional choice to set up an improper circumstance.

Also, maybe the first one, or the second one is a mistake. Not the 100th.

Finally, I agree there has been some significan't improvement. However several (and the problem is that it is several, and some of them referee state championship matches) referees are consistently bad and have not improved. That consistent badness should not be rewarded by allowing them to continue.

[OldManJenkins]

thank goodness we don't have 20x slow motion for wrestling! If Hawaii refs didn't look like idiots now they would seem like retards with slow motion review.
In all seriousness, the consistancy of calls is the issue if each ref made the same call in the same situation it would be good that he is being fair on two sides. you can not call someone out when they are inside the lines and then the next time call a escape or reversal when they are completely out, What's the line for a guideline or an actual mark of demarcation?
When collegiate coaches look at the recruitment tapes they always get a good laugh at the level of officiating during the matches. How do you expect mainland programs to take Hawaii wrestling serious when our standards of officiating are so low? In what job can you go 25+ years and still suck (besides a Government Employee or union member)?
You can stick up for these idiots and make excuses for them but you are just being part of the problem.

If Liam is one of the top 5 wrestlers coming out of Hawaii in the last 5 years, Hawaii got problems! Good thing for us he is not!

Keep drinking the koolaid! It's good for you!

[Peanut Gallery]

Jenkins there is a lot of truth to what you say, the referees need to improve. Do we have to reinvent the wheel? Other states must have methods to improve referring, and I agree there is a total lack of consistency, it seems like especially around the edge of out of bounds. That said even the best referees ave bad matches and bad days.

Jenkins come in out of the cold rain in right field, drink some kool aid, have a hot dog and take the weekend off from the haters club. they will not miss you.

Appreciate most all of your comments, (even if they are a little salty)

Teniya's mom said it best, --dominate or plan to lose--

[statefarmjake808]

Is there a JV tournament today?

[akana3]

Boys top 10



Sullivan's level of dominance this year should probably land him in the top 10 over Tynanes. He pinned all but 2 of his opponents this year and is a returning state finalist. Villarmia should probably be higher that Stevenson as a 2x champ and has beaten better opponents in Waki and Naosusuga. I know its hard to put a non-state champ, but its hard to believe that you think Ilabon should drop out of the rankings based on the finals match that you all saw. He has beaten Nakasone like 4 times in the past 2 years(2-3 by major). He has placed 3 times (4,1,2) and has only lost to Terukina in the past 3 years. He also majored Gallarde last year and has multiple wins over Ikei(a 2x Champ).
The last one I want to mention is Diamond. He won OIA's and was playing 2 straight OIA wrestlers to finish the tournament(the champion who he dominated the week before) and was probably going to win it all. I don't want to get into the slam at all, but he probably belongs in the top 10 as well.

I believe Sullivan, Diamond, and Ilabon should be in there over Garcia, Cooper, and Tynanes. They had great years, but the level of competition and track record speaks more to the others. When doing a P4P I think past accolades should be considered as well.

The 220 weight class wasn't stacked this year. With his size, and experience alone he should beat most if not all of the 220's in this years class, which he did. I say that Tynanes remains in the top 10 over Sullivan due to that finals match. Yes he won, props to him. How he did it, mmmm, not too impressed. Again, can't take the win away from him. He won off an unsportsmanlike where he was the aggressor first (throwing a punch Tongi's way as he was getting up off of him) but as in football, the second culprit ususally gets flagged. Tongi got in easily on his shots which leads me to determine that his defense isn't very good. Although most of Tonig's shots ran him out of bounds, if he were a smarter wrestler, he would have kept shooting. Most of the 220's seemed passive when wrestling Sullivan. Tynanes, although didn't pin everyone, he did dominate. His 2 finals matches against Kanongataa were great matches where he dominated with takedowns and the ability to stay fairly busy on top. Congrats to both though, but the nod should go to Tynanes over Sullivan.

I did not see the slam on Ziggy from Diamond but Zack definitely belongs in the top 10, prayers for Ziggy. He would have won if not for the call. Again, I can't comment on the slam but it is unfortunate for both of them. Shandon Ilaban definitely deserves to be there. He's a great competitor and went toe to toe till the very end with another state champion. That was probably one of the best matches of the night.

The format was great. Although a random draw, it ended up putting some good matches spread throughout the night.

Regardless of what we all say as fans who have a vested interest in the sport, Hawaii wrestling continues to get better and for that I am thankful. Carry on peeps, it's always fun reading this forum.

[miyagi]

Is there a JV tournament today?

JV State Tournament:
http://www.hfusaw.com/

[twnoexcuses]

Is there a JV tournament today?

JV State Tournament:
http://www.hfusaw.com/

Anyone there?

How many kids?

[miyagi]

Is there a JV tournament today?

JV State Tournament:
http://www.hfusaw.com/

Anyone there?

How many kids?

one parent told me was a small turn out. Probably because it was the first year. People didn't know about the tournament, or found out late.

[eastside]

I really didn't see anything controversial about the Corbett/Pascua match. It was a close match and the right person won. I do agree that the stall call against Pascua was off but it did not determine the match. I would have to say that the booing by the Iolani/Grappler area was very unsportsmanlike. I know someone said in an earlier blog the booing came from all corners of the arena but I disagree because it has happened before with kids associated from Grapplers. No Class....... It takes away from the great wrestling and puts the focus on the reffs. Stalemate on the edge and both wreslters did not improve their position(they actually did not move at all for atleast 15 seconds, Pascua tried for the far ankle atleast 3times but couldn't get it). Great stalemate call! How long do you want them there with no improvement? Would you have wanted them stuck in the same position for another 15 seconds or would you want them back in the center to look for another scoring opportunity. The out of bounds call also looks like the right call when Pascua turns Corbett. Corbett is completely out and Pascua's knee/foot touches out. Supporting point of both wrestlers are out. Another close but Great call! TD situation by Corbett should have been awarded earlier inbounds when he covers hips beyond reaction time but the reff held the call and awarded it on the edge when Corbett secures both legs as his supporting points are his feet not his knees and Pascua finally bears weight on his hands. TD either way and again, Great Call!!! During these situations, Booing takes place and again, no fricken class. I think officials in general from all sports can improve but to accuse an official of determing a match with a stall call is ridiculous in my opinion. Again, great match in my opinion and it was decided by the wrestlers not the official.

[OldManJenkins]

That's some awesome biased take on the match! Good Call! Stall call did not turn out to be a factor but it sets the stage for a future stall call and 1 point award. Bad Call! The pair did not improve there position for 15 sec (or whatever it was) so the ref should have blown the whistle at that time, not when Pascua was coming up with the leg. Timing of the call makes it Bad Call! Take down/out of bounds call again bad decision, Pascua's knee goes down but the takedown not awarded till after out of bounds called. Award should be given at the point of criteria being met not a few seconds after when they go out of bounds and criteria no longer met. Bad Call! If you going to make a call be decisive about it not wait and contemplate it and decide yes or no, maybe, let's see and then side with the white guy. I don't think only the Iolani and Grapplers people were the only ones booing, but I guess they learned that from the eastside people.
You should really go back and watch other matches Ray/Popeye/Monopoly man has refereed, he has been pulling shady antics for years or rather decades. See the problem with politics and career politicians, same problems with career referees!

[statefarmjake808]

I really didn't see anything controversial about the Corbett/Pascua match. It was a close match and the right person won. I do agree that the stall call against Pascua was off but it did not determine the match. I would have to say that the booing by the Iolani/Grappler area was very unsportsmanlike. I know someone said in an earlier blog the booing came from all corners of the arena but I disagree because it has happened before with kids associated from Grapplers. No Class....... It takes away from the great wrestling and puts the focus on the reffs. Stalemate on the edge and both wreslters did not improve their position(they actually did not move at all for atleast 15 seconds, Pascua tried for the far ankle atleast 3times but couldn't get it). Great stalemate call! How long do you want them there with no improvement? Would you have wanted them stuck in the same position for another 15 seconds or would you want them back in the center to look for another scoring opportunity. The out of bounds call also looks like the right call when Pascua turns Corbett. Corbett is completely out and Pascua's knee/foot touches out. Supporting point of both wrestlers are out. Another close but Great call! TD situation by Corbett should have been awarded earlier inbounds when he covers hips beyond reaction time but the reff held the call and awarded it on the edge when Corbett secures both legs as his supporting points are his feet not his knees and Pascua finally bears weight on his hands. TD either way and again, Great Call!!! During these situations, Booing takes place and again, no fricken class. I think officials in general from all sports can improve but to accuse an official of determing a match with a stall call is ridiculous in my opinion. Again, great match in my opinion and it was decided by the wrestlers not the official.

Seriously? Complaining because people boo'd?? Seriously?

[FoxMulder]

Everyone seriously needs to stop complaining about the Corbett/Pascua match... Out of all the matches that happened at that tournament, that one was one of the better officiated matches... There where a total of 3 points points in the whole match (1 for Pascua and 2 for Corbett)... And really only 4 calls by the refs (1 stalling, 1 stalemate, escape taken away in the second, and 1 takedown)... I am not saying reffing as a whole is good but I am saying give this Corbett Pascua match a rest already