Iolani belongs in D1. Period.

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Iolani belongs in D1. Period.

Post by HaterOfElitists »

I am granting unpaid's requesting and transferring discussion of the debate where Iolani belongs. It's no question that Iolani belongs in D1. They only wish to stay in D2 so they can dish it without taking it (blowouts that is). It's also an ego boost for them to stay in D2. That's the reason so many Iolani grads try to justify there presence there.

Fact is, you can't! And what is up with the number of wrestling fans who think there is nothing wrong with Iolani playing in D2? That's idiotic! I guess those wrestling fans find nothing wrong with Kahuku playing D2 as well since Kahuku ain't got a large enrollment. Bottom line: it's getting tiring to justify Iolani's presence in D1 and reaffirm that those that think they belong in D2 are idiots. You've never played football if you think Iolani belongs in D2. Suck it up Iolani and stop making excuses. Play the game. You can't have it both ways!
Last edited by HaterOfElitists on Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: IIolani belongs in D1. Period.

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Re: IIolani belongs in D1. Period.

Post by HS Football Fanatic »

HaterOfElitists wrote:I am granting unpaid's requesting and transferring discussion of the debate where Iolani belongs. It's no question that Iolani belongs in D1. They only wish to stay in D2 so they can dish it without taking it (blowouts that is). It's also an ego boost for them to stay in D2. That's the reason so many Iolani grads try to justify there presence there.

Fact is, you can't! And what is up with the number of wrestling fans who think there is nothing wrong with Iolani playing in D2? That's idiotic! I guess those wrestling fans find nothing wrong with Kahuku playing D2 as well since Kahuku ain't got a large enrollment. Bottom line: it's getting tiring to justify Iolani's presence in D1 and reaffirm that those that think they belong in D2 are idiots. You've never played football if you think Iolani belongs in D2. Suck it up Iolani and stop making excuses. Play the game. You can't have it both ways!
@HaterOfElitists: Appreciate your starting this new thread.
1. First off, I would like to again make clear that I'm not an Iolani alumnus. Therefore, I have no personal bias.
2. Not only am I not an Iolani alumnus; I don't particularly care for that school. There is only only school I care for less.
3. Since I don't particularly care for Iolani, Yes: I didn't like it all when Iolani kept dominating D2 football statewide most years.
4. I think football as a sport is so different than other sports, it kind of belongs in a category all its own. I.e., I don't think we can say, "Well such-and-such a school is D1 in wrestling (and/or) basketball (and/or) baseball, therefore that school should be D1 in football. Ergo...
5. When it comes to football, I would suggest that only two schools with small enrollments should always be D1: Kahuku and St Louis. Kahuku is simply something else. Despite its relatively small enrollment compared to other strong D1 schools, Kahuku just keeps on having good football teams almost every year. As for St Louis, it's not that much a mystery: It's an all-boys' school. Therefore, each student is a potential football player. Compare that to, say, Moanalua--or any other co-ed school--where every other student is a girl. (Yes, girls can play football, but as we know, extremely few do, and virtually zero become blue-chip starters). Therefore, we have to multiply St Louis' enrollment by 2 to get a more accurate idea of the kind of enrollment it would have were it a co-ed school like every other D1 football school in the state.
6. Whether we think Iolani truly belongs in D1 or not, they will eventually drop down to D2 if they do badly, right?
7. Damien and St Francis are looking pretty good. If Iolani were in D2, would they dominate those two teams? Would Iolani be certain to blow them out? Wouldn't those games be closer than they were last year? If we say Iolani can / is supposed to give the Big Three a good rub in D1, what's to stop us from saying Damien and St Francis now can / are supposed to give Iolani a good rub if they were all in D2? Guys talk about how Iolani blew-out Kealakehe, but Kealakehe had a lot of starters out in that game.
Last edited by HS Football Fanatic on Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: IIolani belongs in D1. Period.

Post by Egonator »

Yes i Agree. Iolani should be in D1. Kamehameha Iolani Punahou and St. Louis should always stay in D1 since they have a big advantage when it comes to recruiting.

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Re: IIolani belongs in D1. Period.

Post by HaterOfElitists »

HS Football Fanatic wrote:
HaterOfElitists wrote:I am granting unpaid's requesting and transferring discussion of the debate where Iolani belongs. It's no question that Iolani belongs in D1. They only wish to stay in D2 so they can dish it without taking it (blowouts that is). It's also an ego boost for them to stay in D2. That's the reason so many Iolani grads try to justify there presence there.

Fact is, you can't! And what is up with the number of wrestling fans who think there is nothing wrong with Iolani playing in D2? That's idiotic! I guess those wrestling fans find nothing wrong with Kahuku playing D2 as well since Kahuku ain't got a large enrollment. Bottom line: it's getting tiring to justify Iolani's presence in D1 and reaffirm that those that think they belong in D2 are idiots. You've never played football if you think Iolani belongs in D2. Suck it up Iolani and stop making excuses. Play the game. You can't have it both ways!
@HaterOfElitists: Appreciate your starting this new thread.
1. First off, I would like to again make clear that I'm not an Iolani alumnus. Therefore, I have no personal bias.
2. Not only am I not an Iolani alumnus; I don't particularly care for that school. There is only only school I care for less.
3. Since I don't particularly care for Iolani, Yes: I didn't like it all when Iolani kept dominating D2 football statewide most years.
4. I think football as a sport is so different than other sports, it kind of belongs in a category all its own. I.e., I don't think we can say, "Well such-and-such a school is D1 in wrestling (and/or) basketball (and/or) baseball, therefore that school should be D1 in football. Ergo...
5. When it comes to football, I would suggest that only two schools with small enrollments should always be D1: Kahuku and St Louis. Kahuku is simply something else. Despite its relatively small enrollment compared to other strong D1 schools, Kahuku just keeps on having good football teams almost every year. As for St Louis, it's not that much a mystery: It's an all-boys' school. Therefore, each student is a potential football player. Compare that to, say, Moanalua--or any other co-ed school--where every other student is a girl. (Yes, girls can play football, but as we know, extremely few do, and virtually zero become blue-chip starters). Therefore, we have to multiply St Louis' enrollment by 2 to get a more accurate idea of the kind of enrollment it would have were it a co-ed school like every other D1 football school in the state.
6. Whether we think Iolani truly belongs in D1 or not, they will eventually drop down to D2 if they do badly, right?
7. Damien and St Francis are looking pretty good. If Iolani were in D2, would they dominate those two teams? Would Iolani be certain to blow them out? Wouldn't those games be closer than they were last year? If we say Iolani can / is supposed to give the Big Three a good rub in D1, what's to stop us from saying Damien and St Francis now can / are supposed to give Iolani a good rub if they were all in D2? Guys talk about how Iolani blew-out Kealakehe, but Kealakehe had a lot of starters out in that game.
To #7, yes they would. Every game would be 45-0 Iolani. If Castle and Kailua and Aiea can play with Kahuku, mililani, and Farrington, Iolani can play with the big 3. Do Kailua, Castle, and Aiea belong in D2, too?

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Re: IIolani belongs in D1. Period.

Post by HS Football Fanatic »

HaterOfElitists wrote:
HS Football Fanatic wrote:
HaterOfElitists wrote:I am granting unpaid's requesting and transferring discussion of the debate where Iolani belongs. It's no question that Iolani belongs in D1. They only wish to stay in D2 so they can dish it without taking it (blowouts that is). It's also an ego boost for them to stay in D2. That's the reason so many Iolani grads try to justify there presence there.

Fact is, you can't! And what is up with the number of wrestling fans who think there is nothing wrong with Iolani playing in D2? That's idiotic! I guess those wrestling fans find nothing wrong with Kahuku playing D2 as well since Kahuku ain't got a large enrollment. Bottom line: it's getting tiring to justify Iolani's presence in D1 and reaffirm that those that think they belong in D2 are idiots. You've never played football if you think Iolani belongs in D2. Suck it up Iolani and stop making excuses. Play the game. You can't have it both ways!
@HaterOfElitists: Appreciate your starting this new thread.
1. First off, I would like to again make clear that I'm not an Iolani alumnus. Therefore, I have no personal bias.
2. Not only am I not an Iolani alumnus; I don't particularly care for that school. There is only only school I care for less.
3. Since I don't particularly care for Iolani, Yes: I didn't like it all when Iolani kept dominating D2 football statewide most years.
4. I think football as a sport is so different than other sports, it kind of belongs in a category all its own. I.e., I don't think we can say, "Well such-and-such a school is D1 in wrestling (and/or) basketball (and/or) baseball, therefore that school should be D1 in football. Ergo...
5. When it comes to football, I would suggest that only two schools with small enrollments should always be D1: Kahuku and St Louis. Kahuku is simply something else. Despite its relatively small enrollment compared to other strong D1 schools, Kahuku just keeps on having good football teams almost every year. As for St Louis, it's not that much a mystery: It's an all-boys' school. Therefore, each student is a potential football player. Compare that to, say, Moanalua--or any other co-ed school--where every other student is a girl. (Yes, girls can play football, but as we know, extremely few do, and virtually zero become blue-chip starters). Therefore, we have to multiply St Louis' enrollment by 2 to get a more accurate idea of the kind of enrollment it would have were it a co-ed school like every other D1 football school in the state.
6. Whether we think Iolani truly belongs in D1 or not, they will eventually drop down to D2 if they do badly, right?
7. Damien and St Francis are looking pretty good. If Iolani were in D2, would they dominate those two teams? Would Iolani be certain to blow them out? Wouldn't those games be closer than they were last year? If we say Iolani can / is supposed to give the Big Three a good rub in D1, what's to stop us from saying Damien and St Francis now can / are supposed to give Iolani a good rub if they were all in D2? Guys talk about how Iolani blew-out Kealakehe, but Kealakehe had a lot of starters out in that game.
To #7, yes they would. Every game would be 45-0 Iolani. If Castle and Kailua and Aiea can play with Kahuku, mililani, and Farrington, Iolani can play with the big 3. Do Kailua, Castle, and Aiea belong in D2, too?
@HaterOfElitists: OK, I would agree that Iolani would certainly be the favorite, but to beat Damien this year, 45-0? Beat St Francis this year, 45-0? Could I ask other guys to weigh-in here? Would Iolani be 45-pt favorites this year, over Damien and St Francis? Then, how much would Punahou, St Louis, and Kamehameha beat Iolani by, this year?

I'm glad you brought-up Kailua, Castle, and Aiea again. We know that Kailua's and Castle's enrollments are smaller than, say, Mililani's, but how much smaller? Aiea is in the West, so it's in that general area that's experiencing so much population--and presumably, school enrollment--growth. So, how small is Aiea's enrollment? I'm pretty sure that Kailua's, Castle's, and Aiea's enrollment would not be small enough to qualify them for D2, if we classify by enrollment alone. Iolani's, obviously, would. For several years now, I've heard that Kaimuki's and Nanakuli's enrollments have shrunk enough that those schools' very existence was threatened. I heard those two schools might have to be closed, as their enrollments were too small to justify their continued operation. I've heard nothing like that about Kailua, Castle, or Aiea.

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Re: Iolani belongs in D1. Period.

Post by gopunahou »

Iolani fielded big teams when Joe Igber and Donny Mateaki played for them. Sometimes bigger than the ones Punahou fielded in the late '90s. They might not have as many big guys as Punahou ever, but who is to say that they can't do it again? If there are teams that are as big as Iolani's '97 team (throwing one out there), only an idiot would think that they belong in D2. And if that ain't the norm at Iolani, they can make it the norm.
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Re: Iolani belongs in D1. Period.

Post by HS Football Fanatic »

gopunahou wrote:Iolani fielded big teams when Joe Igber and Donny Mateaki played for them. Sometimes bigger than the ones Punahou fielded in the late '90s. They might not have as many big guys as Punahou ever, but who is to say that they can't do it again? If there are teams that are as big as Iolani's '97 team (throwing one out there), only an idiot would think that they belong in D2. And if that ain't the norm at Iolani, they can make it the norm.
@gopunahou: OK, how can Iolani "make" it the norm? Can the school force kids to go-out for football? We know you played football for Punahou. Punahou is a school that seems to have a large turnout for football every year, and even after the final cuts are made, Punahou has often had teams with like 80-90 players. Are you saying that Iolani had football teams with that many players? How many players were on Iolani's '97 roster?

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Re: Iolani belongs in D1. Period.

Post by gopunahou »

HS Football Fanatic wrote:
gopunahou wrote:Iolani fielded big teams when Joe Igber and Donny Mateaki played for them. Sometimes bigger than the ones Punahou fielded in the late '90s. They might not have as many big guys as Punahou ever, but who is to say that they can't do it again? If there are teams that are as big as Iolani's '97 team (throwing one out there), only an idiot would think that they belong in D2. And if that ain't the norm at Iolani, they can make it the norm.
@gopunahou: OK, how can Iolani "make" it the norm? Can the school force kids to go-out for football? We know you played football for Punahou. Punahou is a school that seems to have a large turnout for football every year, and even after the final cuts are made, Punahou has often had teams with like 80-90 players. Are you saying that Iolani had football teams with that many players? How many players were on Iolani's '97 roster?
As hard as this is to believe, we had a bigger turnout but had smaller O-linemen and D-linemen (in the late '90s and early '00s) than Iolani did. Trust me on that. In the late '90s, SL and KS would hammer us because couldn't run the ball to save our lives and started players who looked like linebackers or secondary players at the O-line and D-line. In comparison, Ed Ta'amu, Matt Wright, Uriah Moenoa, Willie Kava, and Donny Mateaki all graced Iolani with their D1 presence. ALL of them played at the collegiate level in D1 and contributed heavily. And yet, Coach Look during the late '90s bad the gall to say that Iolani was one of the smallest teams in the ILH and had smaller O-linemen and D-linemen than Joe Igber of all people, who, in size, resembles Barry Sanders. That sounds like an attempt to get people to praise his team for overcoming "impossible odds" when really, the only teams bigger than they were St. Louis and Kamehameha (at the time). Their turnout at the time was around 60-65 players in 1997. And after 1996, our turnout was about 75 players AT MOST. None of them star linemen. There was a time when Dane Uperesa and Trask Iosefa were the only linemen of ours that wound up receiving D1 offers and playing at the D1 level. That's within a span of 8 years (1997-2004). During that span, KS and SL would hammer us on a constant basis. You could almost chalk up a loss to them every time we took the field against them during that period. Should we've gone and urged the ILH to have us move down to D2 to avoid playing SL and KS? I think we all know the answer to that. If we could hold our own against KS and SL between 1997 and 2004 (and more often than not, we did), Iolani can hold their own against us, SL, and KS. What if Iolani is the only team one of the Big 3 beats? Should they move down and play strictly D2 teams? A LOT of teams face the SAME obstacles Iolani faces. None of them complain or make excuses the way Coach Look and most Iolani alums (probably elitists with an Ivy League attitude) do. I think the sportswriters (Paul Honda in particular) who call those that've got my opinion (that Iolani belongs in D1) idiots are listening too much to Coach Look and ain't seeing the big picture. In a perfect world, Iolani wouldn't face SL, KS, and Pun as much as it does. In a perfect world, Castle would never face Kahuku, either. A league merger where Iolani can play teams like Kailua ain't happening any time soon, so Iolani should just suck it up and understand that it ain't the only team that's facing a tough slate and taking on much bigger teams. Coach Look likes to think that it's absurd to have the ILH even consider having his beloved Raiders play the Big 3. It's preposterous for him to think that way and makes him look like a whiner who likes to dish it but can't take it. I seriously doubt Iolani will look bad against the Big 3. They proved in the last year they played ALL of them twice (1999) that they could hold their own against them. Coach Look thinks the ILH is punishing his team by having them play the Big 3. I am glad Coach Ane or Coach Morrison never said that between 1997 and 2004 because if they did, it'd hold the same water as Coach Look's comments that the ILH is punishing his team. We all know Coach Look likes to pick on smaller teams but can't handle it when other teams beat on his. If Iolani had the opportunity to strictly schedule teams on Anuenue's level, Coach Look would take it in a heartbeat. Bottom line: Iolani's got as much business playing ILH D2 teams as UH has got playing an NFL team. Insisting that Iolani is a true D2 team is like insisting that the Earth is flat. Insisting that Iolani is a D1 team is like insisting that the sun is hot.
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Re: Iolani belongs in D1. Period.

Post by Localfan808 »

It's funny this keeps coming up. Well hopefully this sheds some light.

If Iolani were in the OIA, I'm sure there is no argument they should be in D1. From what it seems Damien, Pac 5, St Francis, and some even outer islands teams such as Lahainaluna could all qualify as OIA "D1" teams as well. In the same way, if any OIA team besides Mililani, Kahuku, and Farrington, played in the ILH, they would all be clamoring to go to D2.

The realities are that ILH D1 is not the same as OIA D1 except for the few schools mentioned above. Which perfectly leads to the conversation of the best case scenario which was once brought up, of a "top" conference being created. Until then, with Iolani's current standards for admission and demographic of students accepted, it seems right to be a ILH D2 team along with Damien Pac5 and St Francis.

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Re: Iolani belongs in D1. Period.

Post by gopunahou »

Localfan808 wrote:It's funny this keeps coming up. Well hopefully this sheds some light.

If Iolani were in the OIA, I'm sure there is no argument they should be in D1. From what it seems Damien, Pac 5, St Francis, and some even outer islands teams such as Lahainaluna could all qualify as OIA "D1" teams as well. In the same way, if any OIA team besides Mililani, Kahuku, and Farrington, played in the ILH, they would all be clamoring to go to D2.

The realities are that ILH D1 is not the same as OIA D1 except for the few schools mentioned above. Which perfectly leads to the conversation of the best case scenario which was once brought up, of a "top" conference being created. Until then, with Iolani's current standards for admission and demographic of students accepted, it seems right to be a ILH D2 team along with Damien Pac5 and St Francis.
When is the last time Iolani lost to one to Damien, Pac-Five, or St. Francis? And when is the last time they beat one of the Big 3? Regardless of enrollment, Iolani playing Damien, Pac-Five, and St. Francis is the equivalent of UH playing an NFL team!
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Re: Iolani belongs in D1. Period.

Post by HaterOfElitists »

Bottom line: any smart person would know that Iolani belongs in D1, but the reasons they gave for needing to stay in D2 were too compelling until recently. You can bet they'll cry to move back down after this year. Let's hope the ILH sees through that.

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Re: Iolani belongs in D1. Period.

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@HS Football Fanatic (from unpaid's D1 thread)

The question is: Would York leave Mililani to coach Iolani? Yes, I know he's an Iolani alumnus. But I have to believe that he'll have a lot more football talent at Mililani than he would at Iolani. Also, is there any guarantee that Iolani would stay in D1? York may be a good coach, but he's not a magician. If he can't recruit enough football talent to Iolani, how will he fare each year against the ILH Big Three? By contrast, can you imagine Mililani ever dropping down to D2? I can't. Also, Mililani's football games are often on TV, because Mililani is a strong OIA D1 school; York gets to showcase himself and his team. Iolani's football games are rarely on TV. Finally, the question arises: Is York a better coach than Look? I personally don't know. Both have done well at their respective schools .

I agree with you about York. He would have to give up a lot by leaving Mililani (but even Matt Wright would be a good candidate). My point would lean more towards changing leadership with Iolani's Football Program. I understand most focus their dislikes towards Iolani as a whole inciting a mystery group of advocates that intentionally keep Iolani in D2 describing them with highly intelligent words like "idiots". I am not an alumnus but have strong relationships with a lot athletes there (Scanlan, Tufonos, Mateaki, Pei, Kealoha) and to blanket Iolani with words as such would be disrespectful. I wouldn't describe any team and/or supporters with something that offensive.

As I said before, only one person benefits from Iolani staying in D2. Only one person with the authority to petition to go back to D2 or stay in D1. There's no one telling this guy to do anything. Its just him. When you are at the twilight of your career its easy to become complacent and go with whatever's convenient even though he's fully capable of being D1 competitive.
Last edited by BullNuts808 on Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Iolani belongs in D1. Period.

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BullNuts808 wrote:@HS Football Fanatic (from unpaid's D1 thread)

The question is: Would York leave Mililani to coach Iolani? Yes, I know he's an Iolani alumnus. But I have to believe that he'll have a lot more football talent at Mililani than he would at Iolani. Also, is there any guarantee that Iolani would stay in D1? York may be a good coach, but he's not a magician. If he can't recruit enough football talent to Iolani, how will he fare each year against the ILH Big Three? By contrast, can you imagine Mililani ever dropping down to D2? I can't. Also, Mililani's football games are often on TV, because Mililani is a strong OIA D1 school; York gets to showcase himself and his team. Iolani's football games are rarely on TV. Finally, the question arises: Is York a better coach than Look? I personally don't know. Both have done well at their respective schools .

I agree with you about York. He would have to give up a lot by leaving Mililani (but even Matt Wright would be a good candidate). My point would lean more towards changing leadership with Iolani's Football Program. I understand most focus their dislikes towards Iolani as a whole inciting a mystery group of advocates that intentionally keep Iolani in D2 describing them with highly intelligent words like "idiots". I am not an alumnus but have strong relationships with a lot athletes there (Scanlan, Tufonos, Mateaki, Pei, Kealoha) and to blanket Iolani with words as such would be disrespectful. I wouldn't blanket any team and/or supporters with something that offensive.

As I said before, only one person benefits from Iolani staying in D2. Only one person with the authority to petition to go back to D2 or stay in D1. There's no one telling this guy to do anything. Its just him. When you are at the twilight of your career its easy to become complacent and go with whatever's convenient even though he's fully capable of being D1 competitive.
Would you take offense if somebody lambasted people that shown themselves to be elitists regardless of the school?

We also shouldn't assume just like that that Punahou will clobber Iolani by 45 points or more. First of all, Punahou will be coming off a trip. And second of all, Iolani almost always plays Punahou tough. Yes, Punahou destroyed them in 2012 and 2013, but who didn't they destroy besides Kahuku during those years?

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Re: Iolani belongs in D1. Period.

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HaterOfElitists wrote:
BullNuts808 wrote:@HS Football Fanatic (from unpaid's D1 thread)

The question is: Would York leave Mililani to coach Iolani? Yes, I know he's an Iolani alumnus. But I have to believe that he'll have a lot more football talent at Mililani than he would at Iolani. Also, is there any guarantee that Iolani would stay in D1? York may be a good coach, but he's not a magician. If he can't recruit enough football talent to Iolani, how will he fare each year against the ILH Big Three? By contrast, can you imagine Mililani ever dropping down to D2? I can't. Also, Mililani's football games are often on TV, because Mililani is a strong OIA D1 school; York gets to showcase himself and his team. Iolani's football games are rarely on TV. Finally, the question arises: Is York a better coach than Look? I personally don't know. Both have done well at their respective schools .

I agree with you about York. He would have to give up a lot by leaving Mililani (but even Matt Wright would be a good candidate). My point would lean more towards changing leadership with Iolani's Football Program. I understand most focus their dislikes towards Iolani as a whole inciting a mystery group of advocates that intentionally keep Iolani in D2 describing them with highly intelligent words like "idiots". I am not an alumnus but have strong relationships with a lot athletes there (Scanlan, Tufonos, Mateaki, Pei, Kealoha) and to blanket Iolani with words as such would be disrespectful. I wouldn't blanket any team and/or supporters with something that offensive.

As I said before, only one person benefits from Iolani staying in D2. Only one person with the authority to petition to go back to D2 or stay in D1. There's no one telling this guy to do anything. Its just him. When you are at the twilight of your career its easy to become complacent and go with whatever's convenient even though he's fully capable of being D1 competitive.
Would you take offense if somebody lambasted people that shown themselves to be elitists regardless of the school?

We also shouldn't assume just like that that Punahou will clobber Iolani by 45 points or more. First of all, Punahou will be coming off a trip. And second of all, Iolani almost always plays Punahou tough. Yes, Punahou destroyed them in 2012 and 2013, but who didn't they destroy besides Kahuku during those years?
Your comment about anyone being an "elitist" is subjective and it is your opinion. However, I agree that no one nor should anyone think any unfavorable team will get clobbered. This is fact across the board. Waianae did it over Moanalua. Happens all the time.

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