STAR-ADVERTISERS ARTICLE: RECRUITING IN HAWAII HS FOOTBALL

Give your high school or alumni a shout out! Talk about high school sports in this forum.
User avatar
huki-lau-lau
First guy off the bench
First guy off the bench
Posts: 437
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:10 pm

Re: STAR-ADVERTISERS ARTICLE: RECRUITING IN HAWAII HS FOOTBA

Post by huki-lau-lau »

twnoexcuses wrote:Huki, here's some stats: http://www.punahou.edu/bulletin/detail/ ... inkId=2448
rich get richer poor get poorer. what can we do
wasnt serioius about having to prove anything, we believe, was just interested in the actual numbers. all good, the hurricane ana seems to be staying south which is good for all of us. have a safe weekend peeps and go UH beat SDSU!
-------------------

Image

AllTheRightMoves
Pom pom fluffer
Pom pom fluffer
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:37 pm

Re: STAR-ADVERTISERS ARTICLE: RECRUITING IN HAWAII HS FOOTBA

Post by AllTheRightMoves »

whatdoesthefoxsay wrote:Fanatic, undftd, et al.

There is no "track" for football players or anyone else. There are different levels of courses in many departments: Science (ex. Chem/Chem honors/AP Chem), Math ( Honors, "Regular", Basic College Prep), Foreign Language (Honors or Regular). There are AP courses in every department (except English and Music), that have a national, university level, curriculum. A kid can choose an honors course in one dept and a regular course in another department. and an AP course in a third department. It's rare for a kid to take all their courses at one "level."

The other unfortunate misconception is that somehow Punahou student's academic achievements have suffered in the years since it's achieved prominence on the football field. That's simply not true. Punahou consistently has 20-25 kids qualify as National Merit semi-finalists every year. Iolani has a similar number with half the student body; no other school in Hawaii this year had more than one semifinalist. Punahou's average SAT scores are on a par with Iolani's, AND Punahou sends an unusually high number of student athletes to Division 1 schools like Oregon, UCLA, Stanford, Oregon St., Harvard, Cal, Colorado, Wyoming, Pepperdine, Loyola Marymount, Columbia, Brown, etc. Punahou sends about 4% of its graduates every year to Div 1 schools with scholarships---15 or so students a year on average--in sports ranging from Water Polo to volleyball to baseball to riflery to football. This isn't meant to be bragging; it's simply a fact.

It's also a fact that high schools all over the island, not just Kahuku, have lost kids to Punahou.
Just curious, did you go to Punahou? Can you please explain what the "bridge program" is? Thanks

thanohano44
All-conference
All-conference
Posts: 1082
Joined: Sun May 07, 2006 10:39 am
MLB: baseball aint a sport.
NBA: Suns
NFL: Raiders
Location: Utah/Arizona/Nevada/Hawaii
Contact:

Re: STAR-ADVERTISERS ARTICLE: RECRUITING IN HAWAII HS FOOTBA

Post by thanohano44 »

SM96753 wrote:
Rocket95 wrote:Extra scoop for Paul??? I guess that means Coach Okimoto deserves the whole plate.. Lol. While Paul Hondas job is to report on prep sport. It was actually Okimoto's comments on video last year after losing to Punahou that actually brought this recruiting thing to the forefront. There were a lot of chatter last with Kaiser and Mililani about recruiting. We all knew about the ILH for a long time. But Kaiser and Mililani last year took it to another level within the OIA. But when Okimoto actually came out and commented on it, the next week there was an article in the paper about it. Maybe Pauls article will make the paper or maybe it'll just stay on Hawaii Prep World. But in Okimoto's words "nobody really wants to bring up the R word". Lol
I agree with you %100!!! Okimoto hit the nail on the head! CERTAIN OIA SCHOOL'S ARE JUST AS GUILTY OF RECRUITING AS CERTAIN ILH SCHOOLS! Let them play where ever the heck they want to play.
why are some of you against the recruiting? As PARENT, I want my kids to develop their minds, talents, education and athletic abilities. I will put them where I think they can best develop those attributes. These kids still have to work hard at their new school, if they don't work hard, they won't play. This is a common practice on the mainland. you mean to tell me you would keep your son playing for Molokai HS in the name of pride vs sending him to Punahou if given the opportunity? (Nothing against Molokai HS, just an example). I want to give my kids the best that I can like any parent. Do I hold them back from being recruited or moving because it might make some people mad? be called a sell out? FFS...I'll put MY kid where I think he/she can get the most out of his/her high school years. maybe its because I lived in the mainland for 15 years and see what this practice does for some kids. kids whose parents couldn't afford to send them to college if it wasn't for sports.

Rocket95
High-quality H20 provider
High-quality H20 provider
Posts: 137
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:10 pm

Re: STAR-ADVERTISERS ARTICLE: RECRUITING IN HAWAII HS FOOTBA

Post by Rocket95 »

thanohano44 wrote:
SM96753 wrote:
Rocket95 wrote:Extra scoop for Paul??? I guess that means Coach Okimoto deserves the whole plate.. Lol. While Paul Hondas job is to report on prep sport. It was actually Okimoto's comments on video last year after losing to Punahou that actually brought this recruiting thing to the forefront. There were a lot of chatter last with Kaiser and Mililani about recruiting. We all knew about the ILH for a long time. But Kaiser and Mililani last year took it to another level within the OIA. But when Okimoto actually came out and commented on it, the next week there was an article in the paper about it. Maybe Pauls article will make the paper or maybe it'll just stay on Hawaii Prep World. But in Okimoto's words "nobody really wants to bring up the R word". Lol
I agree with you %100!!! Okimoto hit the nail on the head! CERTAIN OIA SCHOOL'S ARE JUST AS GUILTY OF RECRUITING AS CERTAIN ILH SCHOOLS! Let them play where ever the heck they want to play.
why are some of you against the recruiting? As PARENT, I want my kids to develop their minds, talents, education and athletic abilities. I will put them where I think they can best develop those attributes. These kids still have to work hard at their new school, if they don't work hard, they won't play. This is a common practice on the mainland. you mean to tell me you would keep your son playing for Molokai HS in the name of pride vs sending him to Punahou if given the opportunity? (Nothing against Molokai HS, just an example). I want to give my kids the best that I can like any parent. Do I hold them back from being recruited or moving because it might make some people mad? be called a sell out? FFS...I'll put MY kid where I think he/she can get the most out of his/her high school years. maybe its because I lived in the mainland for 15 years and see what this practice does for some kids. kids whose parents couldn't afford to send them to college if it wasn't for sports.
I for one agree with you on giving them the best opportunity possible. Especially if it's a private school. I difinitely wouldn't emphasize sports as much as I would their academic studies if they did attend a private school.

twnoexcuses
First guy off the bench
First guy off the bench
Posts: 324
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:05 pm

Re: STAR-ADVERTISERS ARTICLE: RECRUITING IN HAWAII HS FOOTBA

Post by twnoexcuses »

Looks like there's two bridge programs at Punahou. One focused on regular school year, one focused on summer enrichment.

AllTheRightMoves, could you please read everything since I took the time to find them?

Here are links describing the two programs. The one that talks about the regular school year is very academic, so you have to read the whole thing and derive what would seem a complete understanding.

Regular school year: http://www.academia.edu/1860387/BYPASS_ ... HOU_SCHOOL

Summer school: http://www.punahou.edu/bulletin/detail/ ... linkid=911

After reading both, in answer to your question, it appears that the "bridge program" is an effort to give a broader sector of Hawaii's community expanded access to what Punahou believes it has to offer (basically, all the things about it many here appear to resent). The goal appears to be to focus kids on going to college, who for various reasons might not be, or might have barriers making it difficult for them to do so.





AllTheRightMoves wrote:
whatdoesthefoxsay wrote:Fanatic, undftd, et al.

There is no "track" for football players or anyone else. There are different levels of courses in many departments: Science (ex. Chem/Chem honors/AP Chem), Math ( Honors, "Regular", Basic College Prep), Foreign Language (Honors or Regular). There are AP courses in every department (except English and Music), that have a national, university level, curriculum. A kid can choose an honors course in one dept and a regular course in another department. and an AP course in a third department. It's rare for a kid to take all their courses at one "level."

The other unfortunate misconception is that somehow Punahou student's academic achievements have suffered in the years since it's achieved prominence on the football field. That's simply not true. Punahou consistently has 20-25 kids qualify as National Merit semi-finalists every year. Iolani has a similar number with half the student body; no other school in Hawaii this year had more than one semifinalist. Punahou's average SAT scores are on a par with Iolani's, AND Punahou sends an unusually high number of student athletes to Division 1 schools like Oregon, UCLA, Stanford, Oregon St., Harvard, Cal, Colorado, Wyoming, Pepperdine, Loyola Marymount, Columbia, Brown, etc. Punahou sends about 4% of its graduates every year to Div 1 schools with scholarships---15 or so students a year on average--in sports ranging from Water Polo to volleyball to baseball to riflery to football. This isn't meant to be bragging; it's simply a fact.

It's also a fact that high schools all over the island, not just Kahuku, have lost kids to Punahou.
Just curious, did you go to Punahou? Can you please explain what the "bridge program" is? Thanks

whatdoesthefoxsay
Pom pom fluffer
Pom pom fluffer
Posts: 89
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 8:21 pm

Re: STAR-ADVERTISERS ARTICLE: RECRUITING IN HAWAII HS FOOTBA

Post by whatdoesthefoxsay »

twnoexcuses, your description of the bridge program is a good one. I'd just add one thing: the academic year program is an extension of what begins in the summer, and provides a structure that some kids use throughout their four years at Punahou, while others, after a semester or two, drift away from. Some of the kids in the Bridge program are athletes, some aren't. They choose their classes from the same courses all other Punahou students enroll in.

all the right moves, I did not go to Punahou but I'm close to people, students and others, who are currently there. Some of my info comes from them, some comes from my direct experience, and some comes from the kind of search twnoexcuses showed us. The Punahou website has a lot of information for anyone who cares to look, which I realize won't be very many people. Frankly, I'd rather talk about football and other sports, and learn from what everyone else on this board has to offer about the schools they know about. This is an exciting time of year to hear from folks. Can't wait to see how the next couple of weeks play out.

Undftd
High-quality H20 provider
High-quality H20 provider
Posts: 187
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:34 pm

Re: STAR-ADVERTISERS ARTICLE: RECRUITING IN HAWAII HS FOOTBA

Post by Undftd »

huki-lau-lau wrote:
whatdoesthefoxsay wrote:Sorry, I don't understand your question. Fanatic asked if there was a track and I explained that there wasn't a track. Do you want the course schedules for each football player on the team? You're dreaming.
u obviosly didt go to punahou because ur reading comprehension is bad and i didnt go there either because my grammar is bad, i said back up your claims about all that fluff u mention...

"sends an unusually high number of student athletes to Division 1"
"Punahou sends about 4% of its graduates"
"15 or so students a year on average"
" Punahou consistently has 20-25 kids qualify as National Merit semi-finalists every year."

...wahts the exact numbers per year? because assuhumpitons are just that "a$$ u hump tons!
Punahou Average SAT score: 1950
Iolani: 1910

Punahou has the top in the state, fact.

Also to answer a question about the different tracks i graduated a coupe years ago, any not much has changed i know because i TA'd over the summer last year and its basically the same so i speak from direct experience.
Undefeated. 11-0
State Champions

saynotomercs
Play Maker
Play Maker
Posts: 997
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:14 pm

Re: STAR-ADVERTISERS ARTICLE: RECRUITING IN HAWAII HS FOOTBA

Post by saynotomercs »

Undftd wrote:
huki-lau-lau wrote:
whatdoesthefoxsay wrote:Sorry, I don't understand your question. Fanatic asked if there was a track and I explained that there wasn't a track. Do you want the course schedules for each football player on the team? You're dreaming.
u obviosly didt go to punahou because ur reading comprehension is bad and i didnt go there either because my grammar is bad, i said back up your claims about all that fluff u mention...

"sends an unusually high number of student athletes to Division 1"
"Punahou sends about 4% of its graduates"
"15 or so students a year on average"
" Punahou consistently has 20-25 kids qualify as National Merit semi-finalists every year."

...wahts the exact numbers per year? because assuhumpitons are just that "a$$ u hump tons!
Punahou Average SAT score: 1950
Iolani: 1910

Punahou has the top in the state, fact.

Also to answer a question about the different tracks i graduated a coupe years ago, any not much has changed i know because i TA'd over the summer last year and its basically the same so i speak from direct experience.
1950 is pretty high for the mean. I was expecting something closer to 1900.

I would say that the 40 point difference between Punahou and Iolani is rather profound. I've seen statistics on the matter previously and they showed that Punahou students consistently outperformed Iolani students on the SAT.

This has given me two (albeit flimsy) hypotheses regarding Punahou's testing supremacy:

1) Punahou students are, in general, more confident and under less societal pressure than their Iolani counterparts and therefore fare better on the test.

2) Punahou students, with a higher percentage of upper-middle and upper class families amongst the student population have a more varied cumulative share of life experiences than their Iolani counterparts, and given that the SAT, in the verbal and writing sections specifically, requires a familiarity with context that is aided measurably by experiences, Punahou students fare better on the test.

What do you guys think?

AllTheRightMoves
Pom pom fluffer
Pom pom fluffer
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:37 pm

Re: STAR-ADVERTISERS ARTICLE: RECRUITING IN HAWAII HS FOOTBA

Post by AllTheRightMoves »

I thank you for your research and will read the information. I was under the impression that the bridge program and the pueo programs were different. The only reason I'm asking for the information is because people are inquiring about different curriculums and I believe these programs to be relatively new or Im relatively old, lol. Thanks again
twnoexcuses wrote:Looks like there's two bridge programs at Punahou. One focused on regular school year, one focused on summer enrichment.

AllTheRightMoves, could you please read everything since I took the time to find them?

Here are links describing the two programs. The one that talks about the regular school year is very academic, so you have to read the whole thing and derive what would seem a complete understanding.

Regular school year: http://www.academia.edu/1860387/BYPASS_ ... HOU_SCHOOL

Summer school: http://www.punahou.edu/bulletin/detail/ ... linkid=911

After reading both, in answer to your question, it appears that the "bridge program" is an effort to give a broader sector of Hawaii's community expanded access to what Punahou believes it has to offer (basically, all the things about it many here appear to resent). The goal appears to be to focus kids on going to college, who for various reasons might not be, or might have barriers making it difficult for them to do so.





AllTheRightMoves wrote:
whatdoesthefoxsay wrote:Fanatic, undftd, et al.

There is no "track" for football players or anyone else. There are different levels of courses in many departments: Science (ex. Chem/Chem honors/AP Chem), Math ( Honors, "Regular", Basic College Prep), Foreign Language (Honors or Regular). There are AP courses in every department (except English and Music), that have a national, university level, curriculum. A kid can choose an honors course in one dept and a regular course in another department. and an AP course in a third department. It's rare for a kid to take all their courses at one "level."

The other unfortunate misconception is that somehow Punahou student's academic achievements have suffered in the years since it's achieved prominence on the football field. That's simply not true. Punahou consistently has 20-25 kids qualify as National Merit semi-finalists every year. Iolani has a similar number with half the student body; no other school in Hawaii this year had more than one semifinalist. Punahou's average SAT scores are on a par with Iolani's, AND Punahou sends an unusually high number of student athletes to Division 1 schools like Oregon, UCLA, Stanford, Oregon St., Harvard, Cal, Colorado, Wyoming, Pepperdine, Loyola Marymount, Columbia, Brown, etc. Punahou sends about 4% of its graduates every year to Div 1 schools with scholarships---15 or so students a year on average--in sports ranging from Water Polo to volleyball to baseball to riflery to football. This isn't meant to be bragging; it's simply a fact.


It's also a fact that high schools all over the island, not just Kahuku, have lost kids to Punahou.
Just curious, did you go to Punahou? Can you please explain what the "bridge program" is? Thanks

AllTheRightMoves
Pom pom fluffer
Pom pom fluffer
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:37 pm

Re: STAR-ADVERTISERS ARTICLE: RECRUITING IN HAWAII HS FOOTBA

Post by AllTheRightMoves »

whatdoesthefoxsay wrote:twnoexcuses, your description of the bridge program is a good one. I'd just add one thing: the academic year program is an extension of what begins in the summer, and provides a structure that some kids use throughout their four years at Punahou, while others, after a semester or two, drift away from. Some of the kids in the Bridge program are athletes, some aren't. They choose their classes from the same courses all other Punahou students enroll in.

all the right moves, I did not go to Punahou but I'm close to people, students and others, who are currently there. Some of my info comes from them, some comes from my direct experience, and some comes from the kind of search twnoexcuses showed us. The Punahou website has a lot of information for anyone who cares to look, which I realize won't be very many people. Frankly, I'd rather talk about football and other sports, and learn from what everyone else on this board has to offer about the schools they know about. This is an exciting time of year to hear from folks. Can't wait to see how the next couple of weeks play out.

Yes, I believe we should stick to football because there is so much to be said and so little time. Enjoy the season!

whatdoesthefoxsay
Pom pom fluffer
Pom pom fluffer
Posts: 89
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 8:21 pm

Re: STAR-ADVERTISERS ARTICLE: RECRUITING IN HAWAII HS FOOTBA

Post by whatdoesthefoxsay »

All the right moves, you're right, the PUEO program and the Bridge program ARE different. I didn't realize that's what you were asking about, since the Bridge program starts in the summer, too.

PUEO is a summer program for DOE kids that was developed by a Punahou teacher. It brings in kids from all over the island to the Punahou campus for a summer school session that parallels but is not the same as the Punahou summer school session.

Bridge is for a small group of admitted Punahou students and the summer focus-for incoming 9th graders-- is designed to get them up to speed on the rigors and pace of the regular Punahou school year.

Not sure when each program started, but I think they're each less than ten years old.

Thanks for asking.....looking forward to the games!

SM96753
All-conference
All-conference
Posts: 1113
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:03 am

Re: STAR-ADVERTISERS ARTICLE: RECRUITING IN HAWAII HS FOOTBA

Post by SM96753 »

thanohano44 wrote:
SM96753 wrote:
Rocket95 wrote:Extra scoop for Paul??? I guess that means Coach Okimoto deserves the whole plate.. Lol. While Paul Hondas job is to report on prep sport. It was actually Okimoto's comments on video last year after losing to Punahou that actually brought this recruiting thing to the forefront. There were a lot of chatter last with Kaiser and Mililani about recruiting. We all knew about the ILH for a long time. But Kaiser and Mililani last year took it to another level within the OIA. But when Okimoto actually came out and commented on it, the next week there was an article in the paper about it. Maybe Pauls article will make the paper or maybe it'll just stay on Hawaii Prep World. But in Okimoto's words "nobody really wants to bring up the R word". Lol
I agree with you %100!!! Okimoto hit the nail on the head! CERTAIN OIA SCHOOL'S ARE JUST AS GUILTY OF RECRUITING AS CERTAIN ILH SCHOOLS! Let them play where ever the heck they want to play.
why are some of you against the recruiting? As PARENT, I want my kids to develop their minds, talents, education and athletic abilities. I will put them where I think they can best develop those attributes. These kids still have to work hard at their new school, if they don't work hard, they won't play. This is a common practice on the mainland. you mean to tell me you would keep your son playing for Molokai HS in the name of pride vs sending him to Punahou if given the opportunity? (Nothing against Molokai HS, just an example). I want to give my kids the best that I can like any parent. Do I hold them back from being recruited or moving because it might make some people mad? be called a sell out? FFS...I'll put MY kid where I think he/she can get the most out of his/her high school years. maybe its because I lived in the mainland for 15 years and see what this practice does for some kids. kids whose parents couldn't afford to send them to college if it wasn't for sports.
I'm in no way, shape, or form against recruiting. To tell you the truth, I wouldn't mind seeing all the football talent attending one school. The heck with parity. It's a different time. All I want is to see a Hawaii High School football team defeat all mainland foes in non-league play, AND contend for a National Title!

It doesn't matter to me if the top team from Hawaii is from the ILH, OIA, MIL, KIF, or BIIF. I just want them to receive national recognition and defend the honor of Hawaii High School football.

twnoexcuses
First guy off the bench
First guy off the bench
Posts: 324
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:05 pm

Re: STAR-ADVERTISERS ARTICLE: RECRUITING IN HAWAII HS FOOTBA

Post by twnoexcuses »

One last word (from me) on the implications of the belief out there that something like a "bridge program" is nothing more than a sports recruiting tool.

First, understand that football players constitute a very small percentage of Hawaii's overall private school population. And, I think all those non-football playing Hawaii private school students are equally "recruited" by Hawaii private schools.

Second, no matter what things Punahou does, the resentment from some sectors of the community is going to fuel a tendency to identify those things and pound the square peg into a round hole. Suggesting that a "bridge program" is some sort of nefarious conspiracy to rob a DOE district of its football players is just too simplistic, and if you think about it, an unnecessary proposition and too much work to accomplish something that just does not require that kind of work or dedication of resources.

If anything, the "bridge program" does what the DOE fails or refuses to do, whether or not a student might be good at football.

Not everyone can go to Punahou. Not everyone wants to go to Punahou. But, one thing is certain. In an ideal world, every child in the State of Hawaii should have access to the resources and results (in terms of achievement measured by college options) that Punahou has to offer.

Once again, every child SHOULD have access to such resources and results. And then, the "results" should and would likely be measured relative to the interests, goals and aptitude of a given student. But, the opportunity and options Punahou creates (for both its stereotypical student, as well as its bridge student) are apparently what the DOE DOES NOT. This bridge program takes the same students the DOE would leave uninspired, and simply inspires them. Same students.

It would seem that taking advantage of the opportunity to attend Punahou, either through a bridge program or not, is a very smart and effective choice that creates options and also presents opportunities. How that is bad or improper, for an athlete, an artist, or a nerd; a haole, a polynesian or an asian; a boy or a girl, is beyond me.

What is done with those resources, and what results occur would then be up to a kid, the kid's family, and a good amount of luck with the process of life that the kid or family may have no control over (many, many things can derail or temporarily stall an educational journey - e.g. idiotic approaches like "Furlough Fridays"; tragedy or illness).

The thing is, on a per student basis, the DOE appears to spend close (in dollars) to what Punahou spends on its students.

Yes, it is probably the case that Punahou gets to pick and choose its students from a pool of students capable of high achievement. Perhaps more than any other school in the State. Yes, in that process, Punahou may get to choose good athletes. Yes, Punahou probably has the resources to make it possible for certain students to attend the school who might not have the financial means to pay for primary and secondary education.

BUT,

All of those things COULD be said of any given DOE school. In fact, it IS true. Under the DOE system, ANY student can go to any school, if not by district exception, then by simply establishing residence in the district. As of today, ANY DOE school could do whatever is necessary, including turning a blind eye to questionable residential claims (although it would be improper, especially for a recent transfer), in order to stock its sports teams. And, ANY DOE school would educate without additional financial commitment from a student.

Plus, the DOE has an endowment that completely dwarfs that of all Hawaii private schools put together. It's called the State tax base.

Plus, DOE students get significantly subsidized food (lunch) prices.

The differences appear to be in what and where the student and their families want, and the student's ability to pass Punahou's admissions standards and perform academically and behaviorally well enough to stay in the school (if they want to).

Apparently, Mililani is also doing something very right. That seems to be a go-to public school. How dare Mililani make itself an attractive destination, huh?

At its core, a move out of a DOE school or DOE school district seems to be a deliberate choice of a student and the student's family. There does not appear to be any kidnapping or indenture or slavery going on when a move is made (although, ironically, the attempts to KEEP students in district through artificial, penalty type provisions like "loss of eligibility" just for moving schools definitely take on the attributes of slavery and indentured servitude - it also, somewhat problematically, seems to be driven purely by questionable athletic interests and concerns, since I've never heard of a DOE transfer student being denied participation in the band, photography club, AP courses, or math team simply because they went to school somewhere else the previous year. Moreover, one gets the sense that transfer rules are designed to prevent the movement of the Milton or Malapeai type players, but end up catching in its net and hurting the anonymous third stringer who is simply looking to participate and benefit from what athletics has to offer. That's going to get even worse in the OIA's latest threatened brand of medieval serfdom described in Honda's article).

It seems to me that IF recruiting is ACTUALLY a problem that SHOULD be addressed, then the DOE should address the problems that make "recruiting" (in the form believed) effective and possible. NOT resort to institutional tools approximating slavery and indentured servitude (worse, aimed at children) to prevent students and families from making educational choices.

Do what Punahou (or Iolani, or Kamehameha, or St. Louis) does. Offer what they offer. Make any given DOE school as attractive to a student and family as those schools are.

To the extent the DOE DOESN'T DO THAT, don't blame Punahou, or Iolani, or Kamehameha or St. Louis.

Blame the DOE.

The biggest recruiting tool available to ANY private school in the State is the DOE.

If the community mobilized and became vocal about the shortcomings and lack of effectiveness of the DOE with even a quarter of the zeal and time it spends resenting the Punahous and Iolanis and Kamehamehas and St. Louises of Hawaii, then the perceived injustices and inequities of so called "recruiting" wouldn't be a problem.

I keep on waiting to see the mob that bashes the success of private schools and makes recruiting accusations appear en masse at a BOE meeting to demand that it require better performance at their local DOE school, if for no other reason than to disincentivize the loss of precious (or actually, potentially precious) star athletes. Without that, it seems logical the DOE will take the easiest route, which is to not improve, but instead allow the OIA to implement and push for slavery and indentured servitude penalties to quiet the loud sports fans.

"Recruiting" only works if there's something "better" to offer. Theoretically, in the case of "recruiting" to Punahou away from a DOE school, it would mean Punahou had something "better" to offer. Eliminate the "better" gap. That's the real issue. IF there is any sort of "recruiting" going on, that is why it works.

I'm also sure the vast majority of Punahou, Iolani, Kamehameha, St. Louis, Damien, St. Francis, Mid Pac, Maryknoll, Sacred Hearts, St. Andrew's Priory, Le Jardin, St. Anthony's School, HSG, HBA, Island Academy, Assets, and other Oahu and neighbor island private school parents share my view. They would HAVE to prefer not paying private school tuitions and being able to send their kids to K-12, with confidence, for free, or avoid long drives out of their neighborhoods to get their kids to school on time (that's probably also true for parents choosing to go the DOE geo exception route for their kids).

Want to stop "recruiting"? Hold the DOE's feet to the fire. Sure, the teachers might get all haboot and go on strike (and you'll have to bring food to the picket line so they don't bully and humiliate your kids when you're not around), but they'll come back eventually. And they can only afford to strike once every 5 or 6 years.

Undftd
High-quality H20 provider
High-quality H20 provider
Posts: 187
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:34 pm

Re: STAR-ADVERTISERS ARTICLE: RECRUITING IN HAWAII HS FOOTBA

Post by Undftd »

twnoexcuses wrote:One last word (from me) on the implications of the belief out there that something like a "bridge program" is nothing more than a sports recruiting tool.

First, understand that football players constitute a very small percentage of Hawaii's overall private school population. And, I think all those non-football playing Hawaii private school students are equally "recruited" by Hawaii private schools.

Second, no matter what things Punahou does, the resentment from some sectors of the community is going to fuel a tendency to identify those things and pound the square peg into a round hole. Suggesting that a "bridge program" is some sort of nefarious conspiracy to rob a DOE district of its football players is just too simplistic, and if you think about it, an unnecessary proposition and too much work to accomplish something that just does not require that kind of work or dedication of resources.

If anything, the "bridge program" does what the DOE fails or refuses to do, whether or not a student might be good at football.

Not everyone can go to Punahou. Not everyone wants to go to Punahou. But, one thing is certain. In an ideal world, every child in the State of Hawaii should have access to the resources and results (in terms of achievement measured by college options) that Punahou has to offer.

Once again, every child SHOULD have access to such resources and results. And then, the "results" should and would likely be measured relative to the interests, goals and aptitude of a given student. But, the opportunity and options Punahou creates (for both its stereotypical student, as well as its bridge student) are apparently what the DOE DOES NOT. This bridge program takes the same students the DOE would leave uninspired, and simply inspires them. Same students.

It would seem that taking advantage of the opportunity to attend Punahou, either through a bridge program or not, is a very smart and effective choice that creates options and also presents opportunities. How that is bad or improper, for an athlete, an artist, or a nerd; a haole, a polynesian or an asian; a boy or a girl, is beyond me.

What is done with those resources, and what results occur would then be up to a kid, the kid's family, and a good amount of luck with the process of life that the kid or family may have no control over (many, many things can derail or temporarily stall an educational journey - e.g. idiotic approaches like "Furlough Fridays"; tragedy or illness).

The thing is, on a per student basis, the DOE appears to spend close (in dollars) to what Punahou spends on its students.

Yes, it is probably the case that Punahou gets to pick and choose its students from a pool of students capable of high achievement. Perhaps more than any other school in the State. Yes, in that process, Punahou may get to choose good athletes. Yes, Punahou probably has the resources to make it possible for certain students to attend the school who might not have the financial means to pay for primary and secondary education.

BUT,

All of those things COULD be said of any given DOE school. In fact, it IS true. Under the DOE system, ANY student can go to any school, if not by district exception, then by simply establishing residence in the district. As of today, ANY DOE school could do whatever is necessary, including turning a blind eye to questionable residential claims (although it would be improper, especially for a recent transfer), in order to stock its sports teams. And, ANY DOE school would educate without additional financial commitment from a student.

Plus, the DOE has an endowment that completely dwarfs that of all Hawaii private schools put together. It's called the State tax base.

Plus, DOE students get significantly subsidized food (lunch) prices.

The differences appear to be in what and where the student and their families want, and the student's ability to pass Punahou's admissions standards and perform academically and behaviorally well enough to stay in the school (if they want to).

Apparently, Mililani is also doing something very right. That seems to be a go-to public school. How dare Mililani make itself an attractive destination, huh?

At its core, a move out of a DOE school or DOE school district seems to be a deliberate choice of a student and the student's family. There does not appear to be any kidnapping or indenture or slavery going on when a move is made (although, ironically, the attempts to KEEP students in district through artificial, penalty type provisions like "loss of eligibility" just for moving schools definitely take on the attributes of slavery and indentured servitude - it also, somewhat problematically, seems to be driven purely by questionable athletic interests and concerns, since I've never heard of a DOE transfer student being denied participation in the band, photography club, AP courses, or math team simply because they went to school somewhere else the previous year. Moreover, one gets the sense that transfer rules are designed to prevent the movement of the Milton or Malapeai type players, but end up catching in its net and hurting the anonymous third stringer who is simply looking to participate and benefit from what athletics has to offer. That's going to get even worse in the OIA's latest threatened brand of medieval serfdom described in Honda's article).

It seems to me that IF recruiting is ACTUALLY a problem that SHOULD be addressed, then the DOE should address the problems that make "recruiting" (in the form believed) effective and possible. NOT resort to institutional tools approximating slavery and indentured servitude (worse, aimed at children) to prevent students and families from making educational choices.

Do what Punahou (or Iolani, or Kamehameha, or St. Louis) does. Offer what they offer. Make any given DOE school as attractive to a student and family as those schools are.

To the extent the DOE DOESN'T DO THAT, don't blame Punahou, or Iolani, or Kamehameha or St. Louis.

Blame the DOE.

The biggest recruiting tool available to ANY private school in the State is the DOE.

If the community mobilized and became vocal about the shortcomings and lack of effectiveness of the DOE with even a quarter of the zeal and time it spends resenting the Punahous and Iolanis and Kamehamehas and St. Louises of Hawaii, then the perceived injustices and inequities of so called "recruiting" wouldn't be a problem.

I keep on waiting to see the mob that bashes the success of private schools and makes recruiting accusations appear en masse at a BOE meeting to demand that it require better performance at their local DOE school, if for no other reason than to disincentivize the loss of precious (or actually, potentially precious) star athletes. Without that, it seems logical the DOE will take the easiest route, which is to not improve, but instead allow the OIA to implement and push for slavery and indentured servitude penalties to quiet the loud sports fans.

"Recruiting" only works if there's something "better" to offer. Theoretically, in the case of "recruiting" to Punahou away from a DOE school, it would mean Punahou had something "better" to offer. Eliminate the "better" gap. That's the real issue. IF there is any sort of "recruiting" going on, that is why it works.

I'm also sure the vast majority of Punahou, Iolani, Kamehameha, St. Louis, Damien, St. Francis, Mid Pac, Maryknoll, Sacred Hearts, St. Andrew's Priory, Le Jardin, St. Anthony's School, HSG, HBA, Island Academy, Assets, and other Oahu and neighbor island private school parents share my view. They would HAVE to prefer not paying private school tuitions and being able to send their kids to K-12, with confidence, for free, or avoid long drives out of their neighborhoods to get their kids to school on time (that's probably also true for parents choosing to go the DOE geo exception route for their kids).

Want to stop "recruiting"? Hold the DOE's feet to the fire. Sure, the teachers might get all haboot and go on strike (and you'll have to bring food to the picket line so they don't bully and humiliate your kids when you're not around), but they'll come back eventually. And they can only afford to strike once every 5 or 6 years.
I just want to take a second and commend you on this in depth report that you have done, and the time and effort that it took. really contributes to the convsersation and its what i like to see on this, so good on you.

Now, as i said earlier i went to punahou a couple years ago and played sports (Not football) and i was not extremely talented, nor did i get recruited to go there, but for my 9th and 10th grade years i was apart of the bridge program. News flash its just a study hall from 230-330 when most students are done with school so that people can get their homework done.
Undefeated. 11-0
State Champions

HS Football Fanatic
*True Sports Fan*
*True Sports Fan*
Posts: 4627
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:15 pm

Re: STAR-ADVERTISERS ARTICLE: RECRUITING IN HAWAII HS FOOTBA

Post by HS Football Fanatic »

whatdoesthefoxsay wrote:Fanatic, undftd, et al.

There is no "track" for football players or anyone else. There are different levels of courses in many departments: Science (ex. Chem/Chem honors/AP Chem), Math ( Honors, "Regular", Basic College Prep), Foreign Language (Honors or Regular). There are AP courses in every department (except English and Music), that have a national, university level, curriculum. A kid can choose an honors course in one dept and a regular course in another department. and an AP course in a third department. It's rare for a kid to take all their courses at one "level."

The other unfortunate misconception is that somehow Punahou students' academic achievements have suffered in the years since it's achieved prominence on the football field. That's simply not true. Punahou consistently has 20-25 kids qualify as National Merit semi-finalists every year. Iolani has a similar number with half the student body; no other school in Hawaii this year had more than one semifinalist. Punahou's average SAT scores are on a par with Iolani's, AND Punahou sends an unusually high number of student athletes to Division 1 schools like Oregon, UCLA, Stanford, Oregon St., Harvard, Cal, Colorado, Wyoming, Pepperdine, Loyola Marymount, Columbia, Brown, etc. Punahou sends about 4% of its graduates every year to Div 1 schools with scholarships---15 or so students a year on average--in sports ranging from Water Polo to volleyball to baseball to riflery to football. This isn't meant to be bragging; it's simply a fact.

It's also a fact that high schools all over the island, not just Kahuku, have lost kids to Punahou.
OK, but we're talking about the football players.

Post Reply