High school receivers

Give your high school or alumni a shout out! Talk about high school sports in this forum.
backyard ballaz
Pom pom fluffer
Pom pom fluffer
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:36 pm

Re: High school receivers

Post by backyard ballaz »

TheDuke wrote:I also think that you are over simplyfing Lee's offense. Are you saying that Kobayashi would be open all the time on slants, screens, seems and Lee isn't taking advantage of it? Are you saying that Kobayashi has a clear physical advantage over the CBs but Lee won't throw to him? If you are trying to win ball games it doesn't make sense to me.
I think that Ron Lee is too egotistical to have a good receiver make his offense - instead, he wants the impression that his offense makes good receivers. How do you not have someone as talented as Kobayashi mix routes and move him around the field to put pressure on defenses? Punahou has done it with Noa and it works wonders. The reason Cui has some kind of effectiveness is that his routes take him anywhere on the field (left, right, deep, short). With Kobayashi, you already know they run him on 2 or 3 routes. No matter how talented a kid is, when you limit his options and fail to establish a run game what can you really expect?

KindergartenCop
High-quality H20 provider
High-quality H20 provider
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:56 am

Re: High school receivers

Post by KindergartenCop »

TheDuke wrote:I also think that you are over simplyfing Lee's offense. Are you saying that Kobayashi would be open all the time on slants, screens, seems and Lee isn't taking advantage of it? Are you saying that Kobayashi has a clear physical advantage over the CBs but Lee won't throw to him? If you are trying to win ball games it doesn't make sense to me.

YES......Don't use stats as a indicator of how BAD a player is and don't just look at highlights of a game and assume that is how the game is played. You should go see the entire game and watch how Ron Lee runs his offense. He would trips one side and have the defense roll over and leave single coverage on Kobayahi and still not throw to him. It's realy funny to watch. Kobayashi is running wind sprints all game long. They even take him put on third and long and the reciever that replaces him on that play, they throw to him. So funny, I mean comical. From my view point STL can score from anywhere on the field if they would just throw Kobayashi's way a few more times a game. Ron would rather work his offense down the field on short slot routs instead of taking what the defense is offering. By the way, last game against ST Francis he was benched after 3 catches and 2 TD (NO DROPS) with 5 min left in the first quarter and will probably not play much tonight. It realy doesn't matter what caliber of team STL plays, D1 or D2 its the same for Kobayashi, run the corner off (wind sprints).

fanoffb
Play Maker
Play Maker
Posts: 772
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:01 am

Re: High school receivers

Post by fanoffb »

Looks like another big half for Noa, granted it is against the Wolfpack. He continues to move up the ladder and I believe he's 2nd all time in receiving yardage now, despite playing a lot less games. Not that I nor anyone I know would want to do this, but it would be interesting to see the average yards per minute played. I'm pretty sure he's only played in the 2nd half against St. Louis this year though it was probably not into the 4th quarter. You figure he's got at least 2 or 3 games left guaranteed this year with the potential of 4. If he plays 4 more games, I bet he gets the record. With 3 or less, it's a little more in question.

KindergartenCop
High-quality H20 provider
High-quality H20 provider
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:56 am

Re: High school receivers

Post by KindergartenCop »

KindergartenCop wrote:
TheDuke wrote:I also think that you are over simplyfing Lee's offense. Are you saying that Kobayashi would be open all the time on slants, screens, seems and Lee isn't taking advantage of it? Are you saying that Kobayashi has a clear physical advantage over the CBs but Lee won't throw to him? If you are trying to win ball games it doesn't make sense to me.

YES......Don't use stats as a indicator of how BAD a player is and don't just look at highlights of a game and assume that is how the game is played. You should go see the entire game and watch how Ron Lee runs his offense. He would trips one side and have the defense roll over and leave single coverage on Kobayahi and still not throw to him. It's realy funny to watch. Kobayashi is running wind sprints all game long. They even take him put on third and long and the reciever that replaces him on that play, they throw to him. So funny, I mean comical. From my view point STL can score from anywhere on the field if they would just throw Kobayashi's way a few more times a game. Ron would rather work his offense down the field on short slot routs instead of taking what the defense is offering. By the way, last game against ST Francis he was benched after 3 catches and 2 TD (NO DROPS) with 5 min left in the first quarter and will probably not play much tonight. It realy doesn't matter what caliber of team STL plays, D1 or D2 its the same for Kobayashi, run the corner off (wind sprints).
Duke. If you were there at Aloha Stadium Friday night. You would have counted 1 target 1 catch for 33 yards and 1 TD (NO DROPS) for Kobayashi and about 20 - 40 yard gassers to keep the corners and safeties away from the slots. While in the earlier game, Noa had 7 catches 160+ yards and 3 TD's against PAC 5. Kobayashi won't even make honorable mention selection at the end of the year. But he has a solid offer fro CAL. GO FIGURE????

newguy
Pom pom fluffer
Pom pom fluffer
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:13 am

Re: High school receivers

Post by newguy »

KindergartenCop wrote:
KindergartenCop wrote:
TheDuke wrote:I also think that you are over simplyfing Lee's offense. Are you saying that Kobayashi would be open all the time on slants, screens, seems and Lee isn't taking advantage of it? Are you saying that Kobayashi has a clear physical advantage over the CBs but Lee won't throw to him? If you are trying to win ball games it doesn't make sense to me.

YES......Don't use stats as a indicator of how BAD a player is and don't just look at highlights of a game and assume that is how the game is played. You should go see the entire game and watch how Ron Lee runs his offense. He would trips one side and have the defense roll over and leave single coverage on Kobayahi and still not throw to him. It's realy funny to watch. Kobayashi is running wind sprints all game long. They even take him put on third and long and the reciever that replaces him on that play, they throw to him. So funny, I mean comical. From my view point STL can score from anywhere on the field if they would just throw Kobayashi's way a few more times a game. Ron would rather work his offense down the field on short slot routs instead of taking what the defense is offering. By the way, last game against ST Francis he was benched after 3 catches and 2 TD (NO DROPS) with 5 min left in the first quarter and will probably not play much tonight. It realy doesn't matter what caliber of team STL plays, D1 or D2 its the same for Kobayashi, run the corner off (wind sprints).
Duke. If you were there at Aloha Stadium Friday night. You would have counted 1 target 1 catch for 33 yards and 1 TD (NO DROPS) for Kobayashi and about 20 - 40 yard gassers to keep the corners and safeties away from the slots. While in the earlier game, Noa had 7 catches 160+ yards and 3 TD's against PAC 5. Kobayashi won't even make honorable mention selection at the end of the year. But he has a solid offer fro CAL. GO FIGURE????
IMHO Kobayashi is not running routes to keep the safeties off of the slots..the slot and receiver combinations work hand in hand the slot routes are never 40 yards down field its always underneath Kobayashi got his 33 pass running a streak while a slot I beleive it was Souza ran a underneath route which the safety chose to cover and the open man Kobayashi was open. A couple of series later in trips the slot ran a arrow route to the flat the inside slot ran a over route to hold the safety and Nunuha scored on a long streak when the DB stayed in the flat with I beleive it was Cui

So as much as the receivers run gassers to keep the safety off of the slots, the slots run over and under and out routes to keep the DB and Safeties off of the receivers. The offense is a pure read offense the open guy is the guy that the defender chooses not to cover. Everyone knows about Kobayashi and his size and speed so he will draw a double most of the time. But when the DB or Saftey makes the wrong choice and covers the little under routes from the slots the WR is usually rewarded with a long bomb for a TD. What is Kobayashi's average TD reception in yardage? Easily over 30 yards..I guess those gassers to pay off.

newguy
Pom pom fluffer
Pom pom fluffer
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:13 am

Re: High school receivers

Post by newguy »

Kobayashi is a solid receiver that has the size, speed, and skill set to be a great D1 receiver, but if he wants to be the featured guy he needs to choose a college that runs more pro sets or a spread where the receiver of the ball is determined in the huddle before the snap..wait Punahou runs that with Noa..

saynotomercs
Play Maker
Play Maker
Posts: 997
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:14 pm

Re: High school receivers

Post by saynotomercs »

It's the run and shoot, plain and simple. The outside guys are actually running a few more routes this year. They are running far more slants and post routes than they did last season.

College recruiters love Kobayashi's combination of wingspan and route running, but if you don't think he has a problem catching the ball, you haven't been to practice or many games. The vastly under recruited Stubblefield is a much, much better player.

KindergartenCop
High-quality H20 provider
High-quality H20 provider
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:56 am

Re: High school receivers

Post by KindergartenCop »

newguy wrote:Kobayashi is a solid receiver that has the size, speed, and skill set to be a great D1 receiver, but if he wants to be the featured guy he needs to choose a college that runs more pro sets or a spread where the receiver of the ball is determined in the huddle before the snap..wait Punahou runs that with Noa..

Not sure how you view games but Kobayashi's TD was a 7 yard hitch in front of the corner.. He broke the tackle and took it too the house and out ran the safety (with a good angle of pursuit) to the end zone. Your right running gassers all night paid off. Duke wanted to know why his #s are so low and what's all the hype on Kobayashi ? There is no hype NOTHING Kobayashi is an average receiver and will never make any noise in the state of Hawaii. He won't make any selections at the end of the season because his stats are pitiful for a receiver with all the tools but no production on the field. Duke's right what's all the hype about. When all the posters wake up Sunday morning and go through the game stats. Kobayashi didn't do anything last night. good thing he gobies to camps and 7 on 7 tournaments on the mainland because if I was a scout I would not come see him play, if I judge him on states alone. Duke wouldn't recruit Kobayashi.

GOOD LUCK TO KOBAYASHI

KindergartenCop
High-quality H20 provider
High-quality H20 provider
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:56 am

Re: High school receivers

Post by KindergartenCop »

saynotomercs wrote:It's the run and shoot, plain and simple. The outside guys are actually running a few more routes this year. They are running far more slants and post routes than they did last season.

College recruiters love Kobayashi's combination of wingspan and route running, but if you don't think he has a problem catching the ball, you haven't been to practice or many games. The vastly under recruited Stubblefield is a much, much better player.
Agreed Stubblefield was way under recruited and yes he was a tad faster than Kobayashi, but in his JR year he had hand trouble also. Stubblefield should be playing in the PAC 12. Way under recruited. If Stubblefield was featured like Noa would he have had a better career in the ILH. MY GUESS IS YES. He would have been recruited more and had a better offer. YES. no diss on UH though.

Undftd
High-quality H20 provider
High-quality H20 provider
Posts: 187
Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:34 pm

Re: High school receivers

Post by Undftd »

KindergartenCop wrote:
newguy wrote:Kobayashi is a solid receiver that has the size, speed, and skill set to be a great D1 receiver, but if he wants to be the featured guy he needs to choose a college that runs more pro sets or a spread where the receiver of the ball is determined in the huddle before the snap..wait Punahou runs that with Noa..

Not sure how you view games but Kobayashi's TD was a 7 yard hitch in front of the corner.. He broke the tackle and took it too the house and out ran the safety (with a good angle of pursuit) to the end zone. Your right running gassers all night paid off. Duke wanted to know why his #s are so low and what's all the hype on Kobayashi ? There is no hype NOTHING Kobayashi is an average receiver and will never make any noise in the state of Hawaii. He won't make any selections at the end of the season because his stats are pitiful for a receiver with all the tools but no production on the field. Duke's right what's all the hype about. When all the posters wake up Sunday morning and go through the game stats. Kobayashi didn't do anything last night. good thing he gobies to camps and 7 on 7 tournaments on the mainland because if I was a scout I would not come see him play, if I judge him on states alone. Duke wouldn't recruit Kobayashi.

GOOD LUCK TO KOBAYASHI
Can we not trash talk players. Thats not what this forum is for, stop hating on highschoolers who try their best everyday.
Undefeated. 11-0
State Champions

backyard ballaz
Pom pom fluffer
Pom pom fluffer
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:36 pm

Re: High school receivers

Post by backyard ballaz »

So you are basically saying you observed a team playing zone on St Louis...and you prove my point exactly. If Kobayashi is one of your more talented receivers, wouldn't you want to find ways to give him the ball? Move him around? Just as they do Noa to put pressure on defenses and give your team the best opportunity to win? You can even have the wr run the flat/short routes and run the slots off on deeper routes. That might even be a way to preserve your starters a little instead of being the only team in Hawaii to rotate receivers every few plays. When you say that the offense is a pure read offense, you're right. The qb should be throwing to the route that the defense is giving them. This goes right back to my other point that Ron Lee chooses to make receivers with his offense rather than utilize talent specifically. That's the equivalent to Mililani running the zone read run all game with Malepeai and giving him 2 carries for 125 yards, 1 td. Then people would say why don't they give him the ball more, he's so talented? And the excuse would be: oh because in the zone read, the defense is taking him away so the qb chooses to keep the ball for 25 carries and 50 yards, 1 td...that's just how the offense works. When it comes down to beating Punahou, you're gonna have to get a little more creative than passing it to Cui, Souza and Sallas all game. Gotta start making use of Kobayashi and Nunuha a little more.

FatherofCody&Casey
Pine rider
Pine rider
Posts: 213
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:42 pm

Re: High school receivers

Post by FatherofCody&Casey »

Undftd wrote:
KindergartenCop wrote:
newguy wrote:Kobayashi is a solid receiver that has the size, speed, and skill set to be a great D1 receiver, but if he wants to be the featured guy he needs to choose a college that runs more pro sets or a spread where the receiver of the ball is determined in the huddle before the snap..wait Punahou runs that with Noa..

Not sure how you view games but Kobayashi's TD was a 7 yard hitch in front of the corner.. He broke the tackle and took it too the house and out ran the safety (with a good angle of pursuit) to the end zone. Your right running gassers all night paid off. Duke wanted to know why his #s are so low and what's all the hype on Kobayashi ? There is no hype NOTHING Kobayashi is an average receiver and will never make any noise in the state of Hawaii. He won't make any selections at the end of the season because his stats are pitiful for a receiver with all the tools but no production on the field. Duke's right what's all the hype about. When all the posters wake up Sunday morning and go through the game stats. Kobayashi didn't do anything last night. good thing he gobies to camps and 7 on 7 tournaments on the mainland because if I was a scout I would not come see him play, if I judge him on states alone. Duke wouldn't recruit Kobayashi.

GOOD LUCK TO KOBAYASHI
Can we not trash talk players. Thats not what this forum is for, stop hating on highschoolers who try their best everyday.
I'd hate for this forum to suffer the same fate as last year, where a bunch of fights happened here, causing the mods to threaten to shut down the section.

backyard ballaz
Pom pom fluffer
Pom pom fluffer
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:36 pm

Re: High school receivers

Post by backyard ballaz »

saynotomercs wrote:It's the run and shoot, plain and simple. The outside guys are actually running a few more routes this year. They are running far more slants and post routes than they did last season.

College recruiters love Kobayashi's combination of wingspan and route running, but if you don't think he has a problem catching the ball, you haven't been to practice or many games. The vastly under recruited Stubblefield is a much, much better player.
If he's had a problem catching the ball all year, where the coaches at? Can't help someone that's 5'2. Can't help a kid that runs a 4.9. But you can sure help a kid that's struggling to latch on. He didn't have a problem last year did he? And Devan was under recruited cause he's 5'10, it had nothing to do with his skills.

newguy
Pom pom fluffer
Pom pom fluffer
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:13 am

Re: High school receivers

Post by newguy »

backyard ballaz wrote:So you are basically saying you observed a team playing zone on St Louis...and you prove my point exactly. If Kobayashi is one of your more talented receivers, wouldn't you want to find ways to give him the ball? Move him around? Just as they do Noa to put pressure on defenses and give your team the best opportunity to win? You can even have the wr run the flat/short routes and run the slots off on deeper routes. That might even be a way to preserve your starters a little instead of being the only team in Hawaii to rotate receivers every few plays. When you say that the offense is a pure read offense, you're right. The qb should be throwing to the route that the defense is giving them. This goes right back to my other point that Ron Lee chooses to make receivers with his offense rather than utilize talent specifically. That's the equivalent to Mililani running the zone read run all game with Malepeai and giving him 2 carries for 125 yards, 1 td. Then people would say why don't they give him the ball more, he's so talented? And the excuse would be: oh because in the zone read, the defense is taking him away so the qb chooses to keep the ball for 25 carries and 50 yards, 1 td...that's just how the offense works. When it comes down to beating Punahou, you're gonna have to get a little more creative than passing it to Cui, Souza and Sallas all game. Gotta start making use of Kobayashi and Nunuha a little more.
Thats not an excuse that's exactly what it is.. If the read is taking away Malapeai then Milton will just run all night long. I guess Kobayashi should move to slot next year and be a mismatch for every LB and SS in the middle then? Or maybe he can start laying blocks in the middle of the field? Or maybe Ron Lee should just revamp his whole scheme?

I know 1 thing working through the slots is how the offense functions and with the current core of receivers & slots is this offense disfunctional? We'll see but at least they were able to beat Kamehameha this season, that is the first time since 2012 (when they used to play Punahou & Kamehameha 2 times in a year.) I do agree with you though if they play Punahou (gotta get past the 1st round) they need to pick on Punahou's corners. However IMHO when they played Punahou it wasn't the reveivers that struggled, the QB had a rough outing that night well that's what I saw when I was there.

newguy
Pom pom fluffer
Pom pom fluffer
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:13 am

Re: High school receivers

Post by newguy »

I'm not sure about your complaint, according to scoring live the WR's you mentioned (Kobayashi & Nunuha combined) lead the team in Yds, Td's, and Avg. The slots (combined) only lead the team in receptions. I'm confused, do you want the WR's to lead the team in every category? is this really about Ron Lee using his talent or is it that you want Kobayashi & Nunuha to get every ball regardless if they win or lose? Anyways here is the current stats

WR's - Kobayashi & Nunuha- Rec. combined= 40 rec. , Yds combined= 848 yds, TD's combined= 12, AVG combined= 21.25
Slots- Cui & Salas - Rec. Combined= 55 rec., Yds Combined= 731 yds, TD's Combined=10, Avg Combined= 13.2

This Receiving Corp combine for a total of 95 Receptions, 1579 Yds, 22 TD's, with an average yards per reception of 17.225 this group is pretty darn good in my opinion that's what makes them hard to defend. Also this group has achived these stats playing half a game in all of the D2 ILH contests.

Post Reply