Iolani 62, Pac-Five 19--does everyone see that Iolani is not

[HS Football Fanatic]

@soleu: I meant football-wise. I think it's obvious that Waialua can't match Iolani in academics, but then again, no public school can. Talk about cherry-picking: Iolani cherry-picks the kids with the highest scores, whereas the public schools have to admit all comers. And in case you weren't aware, Waialua had a very good football team in the early-'80s.

So a decent Wailua team from 30 years ago has what to do with Iolani cherry picking D2 Titles? Wailua, a team that hasn't even been to the State Tourney is nowhere near the team that always wins it.

Iolani is D2 purely by choice. They chose not to step up to the plate. If both teams were to request to upgrade divisions Wailua wouldn't be allowed to while Iolani would be an easy YES.

What I meant to say is that Waialua shouldn't be disrespected. Yes, they wouldn't be permitted to step-up to D1 next year, but it's not like they never could be D1 ever; they once had a very good team, back before the classification system began. And frankly, if Iolani wants to cherry-pick D2 titles, let them. Everyone can see through that, so Iolani is simply making their own selves look pathetic. I think very few guys on this forum are impressed by Iolani's D2 titles.

[soleu]

Nope it's more than that. The problem with Hawaii is that our chances to show out talent is limited. Iolani moving to D1 would not only open the door for other talented athletes to showcase their abilities on a higher stage that is more capable to prep them for recruiting, but them leaving the D2 would also open the door for the Wailua's and Nanakuli's of Hawaii so that we can see those that we wouldn't normally see.

Bottom line: Iolani is just being flat out selfish and scared. No such respect for football or basketball with their sorry excuses for their style of play.

Lucky for the kids that coaches like Tokuda and York are building systems to broadcast that talent that was overlooked in the 90's.

[FatherofCody&Casey]

Nope it's more than that. The problem with Hawaii is that our chances to show out talent is limited. Iolani moving to D1 would not only open the door for other talented athletes to showcase their abilities on a higher stage that is more capable to prep them for recruiting, but them leaving the D2 would also open the door for the Wailua's and Nanakuli's of Hawaii so that we can see those that we wouldn't normally see.

Bottom line: Iolani is just being flat out selfish and scared. No such respect for football or basketball with their sorry excuses for their style of play.

Lucky for the kids that coaches like Tokuda and York are building systems to broadcast that talent that was overlooked in the 90's.

Selfish and scared and hypocritical, being that they like to dish it (see yesterday's 44-7 win over St. Francis) but can't take it (not wanting to play Punahou, SL, and KS). The ironic thing about your post is that York is an Iolani graduate.

[HS Football Fanatic]

Nope it's more than that. The problem with Hawaii is that our chances to show out talent is limited. Iolani moving to D1 would not only open the door for other talented athletes to showcase their abilities on a higher stage that is more capable to prep them for recruiting, but them leaving the D2 would also open the door for the Wailua's and Nanakuli's of Hawaii so that we can see those that we wouldn't normally see.

Bottom line: Iolani is just being flat out selfish and scared. No such respect for football or basketball with their sorry excuses for their style of play.

Lucky for the kids that coaches like Tokuda and York are building systems to broadcast that talent that was overlooked in the 90's.

Selfish and scared and hypocritical, being that they like to dish it (see yesterday's 44-7 win over St. Francis) but can't take it (not wanting to play Punahou, SL, and KS). The ironic thing about your post is that York is an Iolani graduate.

Well, we should keep in mind that even if Iolani remains in D2, they still have to play the ILH D1 teams once each. Really, though, this year's game against Kamehameha was relatively close. You would think that Kamehameha should have blown-out Iolani by about the same margin that St Louis did, but they didn't because their D screwed-up and surrendered 2 TDs on big plays.

[whatdoesthefoxsay]

@fanatic: but that's just it. Iolani won't play div. 1 teams next year AT ALL if they're in Div 2. There will be NO div 1/div 2 crossover games in the ILH next year if the ILH principals adopt what the ILH ADs have already agreed on. It would be surprising if the Principals overrule the ADs.

[HS Football Fanatic]

@fanatic: but that's just it. Iolani won't play div. 1 teams next year AT ALL if they're in Div 2. There will be NO div 1/div 2 crossover games in the ILH next year if the ILH principals adopt what the ILH ADs have already agreed on. It would be surprising if the Principals overrule the ADs.

Oh, OK; I didn't know that. If that should happen, I think Iolani will get even less respect than it's getting now. And when they go to states, they'll have to play the best in the OIA D2, as well as the best D2 teams of the outer islands. Iolani might not get blown-out in states, but they don't have to be: A loss is still a loss.

[FatherofCody&Casey]

@fanatic: but that's just it. Iolani won't play div. 1 teams next year AT ALL if they're in Div 2. There will be NO div 1/div 2 crossover games in the ILH next year if the ILH principals adopt what the ILH ADs have already agreed on. It would be surprising if the Principals overrule the ADs.

Oh, OK; I didn't know that. If that should happen, I think Iolani will get even less respect than it's getting now. And when they go to states, they'll have to play the best in the OIA D2, as well as the best D2 teams of the outer islands. Iolani might not get blown-out in states, but they don't have to be: A loss is still a loss.

I wish the ILH understood that taking Iolani out of D2 would decrease the number of blowouts. A 76-26 win and 62-19 win? What is the difference?

[HS Football Fanatic]

@fanatic: but that's just it. Iolani won't play div. 1 teams next year AT ALL if they're in Div 2. There will be NO div 1/div 2 crossover games in the ILH next year if the ILH principals adopt what the ILH ADs have already agreed on. It would be surprising if the Principals overrule the ADs.

Oh, OK; I didn't know that. If that should happen, I think Iolani will get even less respect than it's getting now. And when they go to states, they'll have to play the best in the OIA D2, as well as the best D2 teams of the outer islands. Iolani might not get blown-out in states, but they don't have to be: A loss is still a loss.

I wish the ILH understood that taking Iolani out of D2 would decrease the number of blowouts. A 76-26 win and 62-19 win? What is the difference?

I think the ILH is betting that those kind of blowouts won't continue forever, and they might be right. Damien and Pac-Five could soon match Iolani. And, this year Iolani just happens to have an O-line that is both big and good. They almost certainly won't have that every year. Pac-Five, in particular, has had some big O-lines in the past. Let the ILH do what it wants; the D2 state tournament will shake everything out, anyway. That's where it will become clear how good Iolani really is.

[FatherofCody&Casey]

Not to bring up old news but this is a response I got from HawaiiPrepWorld's Paul Honda when discussing the whole issue. Let me know if you agree or disagree with any of this:

Paul Honda October 30, 2014 at 1:14 pm
The last time we compared enrollments was a few years ago during a summer series in the Star-Advertiser. ‘Iolani’s enrollment is roughly half that of Punahou’s.

No matter whether we agree or disagree about where ‘Iolani football belongs, we probably can agree that the actual safety issues come when the teams with accumulations of talent and SIZE like Punahou have to play very young, much smaller teams like St. Francis. I’ve already written about the dearth of ‘Iolani upset wins over the bigger ILH programs in recent years. You mention ‘Iolani’s “blowout” wins over the rest of ILH D-II, but is that really about size and physical domination? I don’t think so.

2014
IOL 37, DMS 14. This was a close game for a half.
IOL 62, P5 19. P5 is a younger team with a lot of potential, but there was no safety issue.
IOL 44, SF 7. SF is loaded with sophomores coming off an ILH intermediate championship season.
IOL 28, SF 6. Close for a half.
IOL 34, DMS 14. Again, a game that was close for a half.

I’m not seeing what you do. Yes, the scores were one-sided, but the competition level differences are not the same as PUN, KS or STL playing the D-II teams. People want to nit-pick, but there’s a massive difference between those three power programs and IOL.

STL 55, IOL 20
PUN 59, IOL 22
KS 42, IOL 28

Let’s go back to 2013
KS 38, IOL 22
STL 49, IOL 13
PUN 56, IOL 0

2012
STL 68, IOL 39
KS 42, IOL 34
PUN 56, IOL 14

2011
PUN 38, IOL 18
STL 42, IOL 35
KS 55, IOL 14

Who in his or her right mind would suggest that ‘Iolani should request to move up to Division I? Again, there should be THREE TIERS of classification in Hawaii. ‘Iolani is well suited to compete in the middle tier. The bigger programs that offer financial aid en masse and/or receive a plethora of transfers can battle it out in the top tier. Smaller schools in the lower tier. Simple.

I slightly agree with the three tiers principle but calling anyone who suggests Iolani play KS, SL, and Pun on a regular basis stupid? That's irresponsible journalism. His opinion ain't the only one that matters and as a matter of fact, many here take my position that Iolani's got no business playing in D2 and would provide more entertainment to the ILH's D1 if they played there on a regular basis. I believe they are capable of fielding teams similar to their 2008-2010 teams, when they won five games against the Big Three. If anyone is counting, that's a 5-4 record against the Big Three from that period. Iolani is not a small team either, nor do they lack depth. Their enrollment is increasing. There is little to support Mr. Honda's position. I'd like to hear what HS Football Fanatic's got to say about Mr. Honda's post especially.

[BullNuts808]

FatherofCody&Casey get a life. Its obvious that you don't to hear from anyone who disagrees with you. I'm extremely shocked that HSFanatic is agreeing with you. I like reading his comments. I guess your ignorance is contagious.

[FatherofCody&Casey]

FatherofCody&Casey get a life. Its obvious that you don't to hear from anyone who disagrees with you. I'm extremely shocked that HSFanatic is agreeing with you. I like reading his comments. I guess your ignorance is contagious.

First of all, if you are an Iolani fan or supporter of their presence in D2, I'd like you to find a compelling reason why they should remain a D2 team. Nobody has. Not to gloat, but many here have taken my position and believe Iolani's got no business being a D2 team in football. Learn to take criticism at Iolani like a man!

And second of all, I "don't to hear" from anyone who disagrees with me? Welcome to the club. Most users at sportshawaii, especially in this section, struggle to or downright can't take opinions that differ from theirs. In fact, I do a better job than most people here of taking opinions that differ from mine.

The numbers that that user gave Mr. Honda support my position and weaken his severely. It's sad that he's taken to using excuses to support Iolani's presence in D2. Face it--even if Iolani had a team full of Kahuku-sized kids, they'd still beg to remain a D2 team. That's Iolani for ya!

[BullNuts808]

I don't really care if Iolani goes to D1 or not. They probably can only handle next year at best. I've been reading these threads for years and really enjoy most of the comments. There's a lot of debatable issues and for most of these issues you continually interject and bring up Iolani. Most don't engage because your comments have become tiring and repetitive. My point is that its sad that you seem obsessed over this issue for trying to force your opinion and ridiculing opposers (now questioning my manhood - lol! ). Again a sign of your ignorance. I don't think your intentions are to "save" ILH D2 from blowouts rather your goal is to lower ILH D2's standards so others (probably your alumni or the school that Casey and Cody go to can have a chance at the title.

[Birdman316]

Fact is, most people here think Iolani shouldn't be dunking on 8-ft rims and playing D2. Even Paul Honda can't think of a good reason to keep them where they are. All he's doing is making excuses as Coach Look does.

[HS Football Fanatic]

Not to bring up old news but this is a response I got from HawaiiPrepWorld's Paul Honda when discussing the whole issue. Let me know if you agree or disagree with any of this:

Paul Honda October 30, 2014 at 1:14 pm
The last time we compared enrollments was a few years ago during a summer series in the Star-Advertiser. ‘Iolani’s enrollment is roughly half that of Punahou’s.

No matter whether we agree or disagree about where ‘Iolani football belongs, we probably can agree that the actual safety issues come when the teams with accumulations of talent and SIZE like Punahou have to play very young, much smaller teams like St. Francis. I’ve already written about the dearth of ‘Iolani upset wins over the bigger ILH programs in recent years. You mention ‘Iolani’s “blowout” wins over the rest of ILH D-II, but is that really about size and physical domination? I don’t think so.

2014
IOL 37, DMS 14. This was a close game for a half.
IOL 62, P5 19. P5 is a younger team with a lot of potential, but there was no safety issue.
IOL 44, SF 7. SF is loaded with sophomores coming off an ILH intermediate championship season.
IOL 28, SF 6. Close for a half.
IOL 34, DMS 14. Again, a game that was close for a half.

I’m not seeing what you do. Yes, the scores were one-sided, but the competition level differences are not the same as PUN, KS or STL playing the D-II teams. People want to nit-pick, but there’s a massive difference between those three power programs and IOL.

STL 55, IOL 20
PUN 59, IOL 22
KS 42, IOL 28

Let’s go back to 2013
KS 38, IOL 22
STL 49, IOL 13
PUN 56, IOL 0

2012
STL 68, IOL 39
KS 42, IOL 34
PUN 56, IOL 14

2011
PUN 38, IOL 18
STL 42, IOL 35
KS 55, IOL 14

Who in his or her right mind would suggest that ‘Iolani should request to move up to Division I? Again, there should be THREE TIERS of classification in Hawaii. ‘Iolani is well suited to compete in the middle tier. The bigger programs that offer financial aid en masse and/or receive a plethora of transfers can battle it out in the top tier. Smaller schools in the lower tier. Simple.

I slightly agree with the three tiers principle but calling anyone who suggests Iolani play KS, SL, and Pun on a regular basis stupid? That's irresponsible journalism. His opinion ain't the only one that matters and as a matter of fact, many here take my position that Iolani's got no business playing in D2 and would provide more entertainment to the ILH's D1 if they played there on a regular basis. I believe they are capable of fielding teams similar to their 2008-2010 teams, when they won five games against the Big Three. If anyone is counting, that's a 5-4 record against the Big Three from that period. Iolani is not a small team either, nor do they lack depth. Their enrollment is increasing. There is little to support Mr. Honda's position. I'd like to hear what HS Football Fanatic's got to say about Mr. Honda's post especially.

Sorry you had to wait 12 days, but here it is: I think it probably is a fact that at least in football, Iolani can't field the big (size-wise) players that the "Big 3" can. Yes, this year Iolani has a fairly big O-line, but that's pretty unusual for Iolani. Also, I think Iolani does lack depth, especially at the skill positions, and this also is usually the case. Having said all that, I would still agree that Iolani should be in D1. Why? Because until the mid-2000s (when the classification system began), Iolani played the "Big 3" on a full schedule, every year. If Iolani did it then, why can't they do it now? What's changed? By insisting on staying in D2, Iolani is causing the "Big 3" to fold their arms and shake their heads.

[FatherofCody&Casey]

Sorry you had to wait 12 days, but here it is: I think it probably is a fact that at least in football, Iolani can't field the big (size-wise) players that the "Big 3" can. Yes, this year Iolani has a fairly big O-line, but that's pretty unusual for Iolani. Also, I think Iolani does lack depth, especially at the skill positions, and this also is usually the case. Having said all that, I would still agree that Iolani should be in D1. Why? Because until the mid-2000s (when the classification system began), Iolani played the "Big 3" on a full schedule, every year. If Iolani did it then, why can't they do it now? What's changed? By insisting on staying in D2, Iolani is causing the "Big 3" to fold their arms and shake their heads.

Thanks for responding. Not a lot of teams can compete size-wise with Kahuku and Mililani in the OIA. I haven't heard them cry the way Iolani has. A lot of D1 teams would trade places with them and wouldn't complain about going against the Big 3. Iolani backers just hate watching any of the Big 3 bruise their ego. Having them play St. Francis is as much of a mismatch as having Pac-Five play Punahou. Iolani backers also deny recruiting, which is one of the reasons I can't stand them or the FB team. It's also another form of egotism on their party (saying they don't need recruits to compete with the Big 3 and blow past REAL D2 teams). If they don't recruit, Lennay Kekua is a real person.