FatherofCody&Casey wrote:Tonight's Kamehameha-Iolani game didn't help the cause of people who believe Iolani is a legit D2 team. You might say Kamehameha was looking ahead to Punahou but that's hogwash. I knew Iolani's offense would give Kamehameha all they could handle while their defense would struggle. Games like these are the norm for Iolani, not what we saw with Punahou. The next three weeks will only strengthen the case of those who want Iolani to play where it should.
I think there's some confusion about where Iolani should be this year, because they have a D1 offense, but a D2 defense. Regarding last night's game against Kamehameha: I don't think there was any way that Kamehameha was "looking ahead to Punahou." When your game is tied at the half, you're not looking ahead to anyone. Kamehameha might have suspected that they'd win the game, but I'm also sure they knew it would be a dogfight because Iolani not only has a good O overall, but also a pretty-big O-line. Having said that, Kamehameha's D stank-out the stadium a few times by surrendering big plays.
So does St. Louis and possibly Kamehameha. I never said I thought Kamehameha was looking ahead to Punahou. What I meant was that's probably the excuse Iolani D2 supporters will use to defend their presence in D2. St. Louis' defense giving up 34 points against Damien should tell you something. It helps that they've got a bye week because their chances of getting the October 17-18 bye don't look too good.
soleu wrote:As far as Iolani to D1, they should've done it a long time ago. If they're worried about not having the big pieces, stop making excuses and make an offer like the rest of the ILH D1 teams. You offer a high quality education to go along WITH the exposure of playing at the D1 level and the talent will follow. Iolani would be another opportunity for talent to play. For now it just looks like a cowardly move staying in D2 and cherry picking these lesser titles. Punahou never made excuses, they made solutions. Iolani should follow suit and do the same.
That's true. Too bad people like a certain staradvertiser writer, as well as egotistical Iolani backers, can't see this. I hope unpaid is right when he asserted that this would be Iolani's last year as a D2 team. I wonder if Coach Look thought Iolani was a D2 team when Joe Igber and Donny Mateaki played for him. If the goal is to eliminate blowouts, why let Iolani stay in D2? Only an ignorant idiot would support there presence there.
Father of Cody and Casey: My point was the ILH is gonna determine whether Iolani is D1 or D2. Whether I agree with it or not doesn't really matter: I think Iolani will be in Div 2.
Last week, after seeing how flat out bad Iolani was against Punahou, I didn't think they should be in Div. 1. But after the Kamehameha game, I simply don't know. What I do know is that ST. L, Kamehameha, and Punahou would LOVE to have Iolani in their division : will give them a couple more games, and they'll be against an opponent they've done well against recently.
whatdoesthefoxsay wrote:Father of Cody and Casey: My point was the ILH is gonna determine whether Iolani is D1 or D2. Whether I agree with it or not doesn't really matter: I think Iolani will be in Div 2.
Last week, after seeing how flat out bad Iolani was against Punahou, I didn't think they should be in Div. 1. But after the Kamehameha game, I simply don't know. What I do know is that ST. L, Kamehameha, and Punahou would LOVE to have Iolani in their division : will give them a couple more games, and they'll be against an opponent they've done well against recently.
Thanks for that link. It will be interesting to see if the ILH sticks to that decision. I hope so, but I'm wondering if the new agreement--separating div 1 and div 2 game schedules--supersedes the old one? It doesn't have to, but it might.
whatdoesthefoxsay wrote:Thanks for that link. It will be interesting to see if the ILH sticks to that decision. I hope so, but I'm wondering if the new agreement--separating div 1 and div 2 game schedules--supersedes the old one? It doesn't have to, but it might.
If the ILH forgot about its plan to implement that rule and insists that ILH play D2, that'll be a form of mega incompetence. Mostly everyone here thinks Iolani is making themselves look like cowards for refusing to move up.
Birdman, maybe Iolani players are just brighter than everyone else. They can win a Div 2 championship without getting the crap beat out of them. Everyone knows Iolani is far superior to every other school in the state academically. A championship is a championship. It's just a shame that Keoni Makekau can't prove himself on the big stage next year if they stay Div 2.
whatdoesthefoxsay wrote:Birdman, maybe Iolani players are just brighter than everyone else. They can win a Div 2 championship without getting the crap beat out of them. Everyone knows Iolani is far superior to every other school in the state academically. A championship is a championship. It's just a shame that Keoni Makekau can't prove himself on the big stage next year if they stay Div 2.
1. Punahou is very close to Iolani, academically. Trust me, I do not like Punahou, but to say Iolani is "far superior" to them academically, is simply inaccurate.
2. Just how much value does a D2 championship have? I say better to lose in D1 than win in D2.
FatherofCody&Casey wrote:
I knew people like unpaid and whatdoesthefoxsay would let this game cloud their vision, but understand that it won't change the opinions of people who share mine. HS FB Fanatic said it best in the bolded part. And plus, it isn't like Iolani hasn't given the D1 teams a run for their money in the recent past. As I've said before, not every game they play against D1 teams is a 30-plus point loss. Iolani might lose by 30 or 40 points once in awhile to D1 teams, but don't let this game be the norm for them when it comes to playing D1 teams because that is far from the truth. Iolani hasn't lost to a real D2 team since 2007; meanwhile, their last victory against an ILH D1 team was more recent. And check this: Iolani has never been in danger of needing to forfeit games against Punahou, SL, and KS because of safety issues, unlike Damien, Pac-Five, and St. Francis. And remember, St. Louis couldn't do anything right against Punahou for most of the game but did anyone scream for them to drop down? I think we all know the answer to that. I know I won't change the opinions of those who believe Iolani belongs in D2 but don't think of this game as the norm for them in terms of playing D1 teams. I respect people who humbly state their opinion on this matter but urge everyone to ignore those who believe their opinion on it is the only one that matters.
BTW, it'd be a shame to let the football rivalry between Punahou and Iolani go the way of the dodo. This rivalry is as important here as Michigan-Ohio State, OU-Texas, and BYU-Utah is to the mainland. Punahou hasn't completely dominated this rivalry the way St. Louis has dominated Damien. Iolani is capabale of coming back and snagging a few wins here and there. Look at 2009: after three consecutive humiliating losses to the Buffs, Iolani came back with a vengeance and handed them a 35-12 passing. The fact that they outscored Punahou 15-3 in the second half today shows that they take this game seriously. So what if Punahou took it easy on them in the second half? Who hasn't Punahou taken it easy on? The Puns also took the game pretty seriously, too, with their 35-7 2nd quarter run. If you don't wanna play St. Louis or Kamehameha, fine, but let the Punahou-Iolani game be a non-conference one. And for the record, Iolani should have its closest game against a D1 opponent next week.
I would say that the Iolani / Punahou rivalry is probably the strongest high-school rivalry in HI. I know an Iolani grad who told me that when he was at Iolani, their feelings towards Punahou bordered on hatred. That is what you call a strong rivalry! I would say that the second-strongest rivalry is the Radford / Moanalua rivalry, followed closely by the Kamehameha / Punahou rivalry, at third. At fourth, I'd say, is the Damien / St Louis rivalry. At fifth, I'd say, is the Kailua / Castle rivalry. That would be my "Top 5" of HI high-school rivalries.
Takes more than feelings to make a rivalry great. Mililani/Leilehua and Kam/Pun would be among the top as far as quality matchups go. Even if you just measure feelings, Kahuku/Farrington have crossed that hatred line. Those 2 crowds mock each other in unison lol.
As far as Iolani to D1, they should've done it a long time ago. If they're worried about not having the big pieces, stop making excuses and make an offer like the rest of the ILH D1 teams. You offer a high quality education to go along WITH the exposure of playing at the D1 level and the talent will follow. Iolani would be another opportunity for talent to play. For now it just looks like a cowardly move staying in D2 and cherry picking these lesser titles. Punahou never made excuses, they made solutions. Iolani should follow suit and do the same.
Interesting. Didn't even know that there is a Kahuku / Farrington rivalry, let alone that it "crossed the hatred line." I am aware of the Leilehua / Mililani rivalry, but didn't think it's strong enough to make my "Top 5."
FatherofCody&Casey wrote:
I knew people like unpaid and whatdoesthefoxsay would let this game cloud their vision, but understand that it won't change the opinions of people who share mine. HS FB Fanatic said it best in the bolded part. And plus, it isn't like Iolani hasn't given the D1 teams a run for their money in the recent past. As I've said before, not every game they play against D1 teams is a 30-plus point loss. Iolani might lose by 30 or 40 points once in awhile to D1 teams, but don't let this game be the norm for them when it comes to playing D1 teams because that is far from the truth. Iolani hasn't lost to a real D2 team since 2007; meanwhile, their last victory against an ILH D1 team was more recent. And check this: Iolani has never been in danger of needing to forfeit games against Punahou, SL, and KS because of safety issues, unlike Damien, Pac-Five, and St. Francis. And remember, St. Louis couldn't do anything right against Punahou for most of the game but did anyone scream for them to drop down? I think we all know the answer to that. I know I won't change the opinions of those who believe Iolani belongs in D2 but don't think of this game as the norm for them in terms of playing D1 teams. I respect people who humbly state their opinion on this matter but urge everyone to ignore those who believe their opinion on it is the only one that matters.
BTW, it'd be a shame to let the football rivalry between Punahou and Iolani go the way of the dodo. This rivalry is as important here as Michigan-Ohio State, OU-Texas, and BYU-Utah is to the mainland. Punahou hasn't completely dominated this rivalry the way St. Louis has dominated Damien. Iolani is capabale of coming back and snagging a few wins here and there. Look at 2009: after three consecutive humiliating losses to the Buffs, Iolani came back with a vengeance and handed them a 35-12 passing. The fact that they outscored Punahou 15-3 in the second half today shows that they take this game seriously. So what if Punahou took it easy on them in the second half? Who hasn't Punahou taken it easy on? The Puns also took the game pretty seriously, too, with their 35-7 2nd quarter run. If you don't wanna play St. Louis or Kamehameha, fine, but let the Punahou-Iolani game be a non-conference one. And for the record, Iolani should have its closest game against a D1 opponent next week.
I would say that the Iolani / Punahou rivalry is probably the strongest high-school rivalry in HI. I know an Iolani grad who told me that when he was at Iolani, their feelings towards Punahou bordered on hatred. That is what you call a strong rivalry! I would say that the second-strongest rivalry is the Radford / Moanalua rivalry, followed closely by the Kamehameha / Punahou rivalry, at third. At fourth, I'd say, is the Damien / St Louis rivalry. At fifth, I'd say, is the Kailua / Castle rivalry. That would be my "Top 5" of HI high-school rivalries.
Takes more than feelings to make a rivalry great. Mililani/Leilehua and Kam/Pun would be among the top as far as quality matchups go. Even if you just measure feelings, Kahuku/Farrington have crossed that hatred line. Those 2 crowds mock each other in unison lol.
As far as Iolani to D1, they should've done it a long time ago. If they're worried about not having the big pieces, stop making excuses and make an offer like the rest of the ILH D1 teams. You offer a high quality education to go along WITH the exposure of playing at the D1 level and the talent will follow. Iolani would be another opportunity for talent to play. For now it just looks like a cowardly move staying in D2 and cherry picking these lesser titles. Punahou never made excuses, they made solutions. Iolani should follow suit and do the same.
Well, to be fair, it's a lot harder for Punahou to make excuses, as they have a much larger enrollment than Iolani does. Iolani kind of reminds me of Waialua: A small school that usually doesn't have a lot of big players on the football team, and usually doesn't have much depth at each position, too. As far as football goes, Iolani and Waialua are like two peas in a pod: Small enrollment, small in physical size of the players, and small in numbers (in terms of number of players on the team). Of course, they may have a few big players each year, but for the most part their teams tend to be small. This year, however, Iolani has a pretty-big O-line; don't know about Waialua's O-line this year.
whatdoesthefoxsay wrote:Birdman, maybe Iolani players are just brighter than everyone else. They can win a Div 2 championship without getting the crap beat out of them. Everyone knows Iolani is far superior to every other school in the state academically. A championship is a championship. It's just a shame that Keoni Makekau can't prove himself on the big stage next year if they stay Div 2.
1. Punahou is very close to Iolani, academically. Trust me, I do not like Punahou, but to say Iolani is "far superior" to them academically, is simply inaccurate.
2. Just how much value does a D2 championship have? I say better to lose in D1 than win in D2.
Fanatic, I was being sarcastic about everything in that post except Makekau not having the best opportunity to shine if Iolani stays div. 2. I completely agree with you; I was just poking some fun. I think that Punahou and Iolani academics may be stylistically different, but are both very strong, and I think a div 2 championship is just that: div 2.
My understanding re: Iolani and Div 2, is that it's up to Iolani to determine what division it wants to be in. I don't know why that's the case but that's what I hear, and that's why I think they'll stay in Div 2 next year rather than getting their heinies handed to them on a platter by Punahou, Kamehameha, and St. Louis. Maybe someone else reading these blogs has a better grip on this issue and can enlighten us? It is certainly contrary to the 2013 announcement that Iolani had to move to Div 1 after this year.
Takes more than feelings to make a rivalry great. Mililani/Leilehua and Kam/Pun would be among the top as far as quality matchups go. Even if you just measure feelings, Kahuku/Farrington have crossed that hatred line. Those 2 crowds mock each other in unison lol.
As far as Iolani to D1, they should've done it a long time ago. If they're worried about not having the big pieces, stop making excuses and make an offer like the rest of the ILH D1 teams. You offer a high quality education to go along WITH the exposure of playing at the D1 level and the talent will follow. Iolani would be another opportunity for talent to play. For now it just looks like a cowardly move staying in D2 and cherry picking these lesser titles. Punahou never made excuses, they made solutions. Iolani should follow suit and do the same.
Well, to be fair, it's a lot harder for Punahou to make excuses, as they have a much larger enrollment than Iolani does. Iolani kind of reminds me of Waialua: A small school that usually doesn't have a lot of big players on the football team, and usually doesn't have much depth at each position, too. As far as football goes, Iolani and Waialua are like two peas in a pod: Small enrollment, small in physical size of the players, and small in numbers (in terms of number of players on the team). Of course, they may have a few big players each year, but for the most part their teams tend to be small. This year, however, Iolani has a pretty-big O-line; don't know about Waialua's O-line this year.
No, Iolani is not Wailua. Not even close. Not academic wise, skill wise, caliber wise, etc.. If Wailua had even one season like Iolani, they would be a D1 team. Stop making excuses to cherry pick the D2. Change to D1 with your resources and the talent will follow.
@soleu: I meant football-wise. I think it's obvious that Waialua can't match Iolani in academics, but then again, no public school can. Talk about cherry-picking: Iolani cherry-picks the kids with the highest scores, whereas the public schools have to admit all comers. And in case you weren't aware, Waialua had a very good football team in the early-'80s.
HS Football Fanatic wrote:@soleu: I meant football-wise. I think it's obvious that Waialua can't match Iolani in academics, but then again, no public school can. Talk about cherry-picking: Iolani cherry-picks the kids with the highest scores, whereas the public schools have to admit all comers. And in case you weren't aware, Waialua had a very good football team in the early-'80s.
So a decent Wailua team from 30 years ago has what to do with Iolani cherry picking D2 Titles? Wailua, a team that hasn't even been to the State Tourney is nowhere near the team that always wins it.
Iolani is D2 purely by choice. They chose not to step up to the plate. If both teams were to request to upgrade divisions Wailua wouldn't be allowed to while Iolani would be an easy YES.
