New Leagues
New Leagues
It's clear that reform needs to occur with Hawaii High School Football. The disparity between teams does not benefit anyone. Not that this is anything more than a pipe dream, here is my idea for 3 new divisions. This does not take into account travel complications and is just an estimate of trying to get an even number of teams in each division.
Division 1 (12)
Cambell
Farrington
Kahuku
Kaiser
Kamehameha-Kapalama
Kapolei
Leileihua
Maui
Mililani
Punahou
St. Louis
Waianae
Division 2 (20 teams)
Aiea
Baldwin
Castle
Hilo
Iolani
Kailua
Kalaheo
Kalani
Kamehameha-Hawaii
Kapaa
Kauai
Kealakehe
King Kekaulike
Konawaena
Lahainalua
McKinley
Nanakuli
Pearl City
Radford
Waipahu
Division 3 (12)
Anuenue
Damien
Hawaii Prep
Honokaa
Kamehameha-Maui
Keeau
Pac-5
Roosevelt
St. Francis
Waialua
Waiakea
Waimea
I have to admit that my knowledge of the outer island teams is elementary so I don't know exactly which ones should really be D2 or D3. I think it could be interesting to see 2 leagues for each of these divisions and have something that resembles the OIA playoffs for the state playoffs. Perhaps there could be a crossover game at some point in the season. Depending on a team's success, it could move up or down. I realize that it is not practical to have Maui in D1 with all the other teams being from Oahu so maybe one of the D2 Oahu teams should change spots but I wasn't sure which one. Kaiser and Maui are probably fringe D1 teams but in order to get 12 in D1, I put those two teams up. In some year Baldwin was a definite D1 team but they've struggled against the D2 teams on their island the last couple of years so not sure if they really belong at D1 right now. Some teams regularly play mainland and Canada teams so crossover games could be one of those or teams from the other league in your division.
Thoughts?
Division 1 (12)
Cambell
Farrington
Kahuku
Kaiser
Kamehameha-Kapalama
Kapolei
Leileihua
Maui
Mililani
Punahou
St. Louis
Waianae
Division 2 (20 teams)
Aiea
Baldwin
Castle
Hilo
Iolani
Kailua
Kalaheo
Kalani
Kamehameha-Hawaii
Kapaa
Kauai
Kealakehe
King Kekaulike
Konawaena
Lahainalua
McKinley
Nanakuli
Pearl City
Radford
Waipahu
Division 3 (12)
Anuenue
Damien
Hawaii Prep
Honokaa
Kamehameha-Maui
Keeau
Pac-5
Roosevelt
St. Francis
Waialua
Waiakea
Waimea
I have to admit that my knowledge of the outer island teams is elementary so I don't know exactly which ones should really be D2 or D3. I think it could be interesting to see 2 leagues for each of these divisions and have something that resembles the OIA playoffs for the state playoffs. Perhaps there could be a crossover game at some point in the season. Depending on a team's success, it could move up or down. I realize that it is not practical to have Maui in D1 with all the other teams being from Oahu so maybe one of the D2 Oahu teams should change spots but I wasn't sure which one. Kaiser and Maui are probably fringe D1 teams but in order to get 12 in D1, I put those two teams up. In some year Baldwin was a definite D1 team but they've struggled against the D2 teams on their island the last couple of years so not sure if they really belong at D1 right now. Some teams regularly play mainland and Canada teams so crossover games could be one of those or teams from the other league in your division.
Thoughts?
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- Play Maker
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Re: New Leagues
Oahu Three-Division
The bottom (2) teams from Division 1 move down to Division 2 the next season while the top (2) teams in Division 2 move up to Division 1 next season. No exceptions.
For the state tournament, the top 4 teams from Division 1 and the top 2 teams from Division 2 make the same top-flight state tournament, along with (2) NI teams. The Division 3 state tourney is separate.
Division 1:
(One round, top two records qualify, next four records in one-off to determine remaining two seeds (3 v. 6, 4 v. 5) - winners advance to state tournament, losers end season)
Kahuku
Farrington
Kamehameha
Saint Louis
Punahou
Mililani
Leilehua
Waianae
Campbell
Kapolei
Division 2:
(Divisional round + 1 crossover game followed by 8 team playoff)
(West)
Damien
Pac-Five
Moanalua
Radford
Aiea
Waipahu
Pearl City
(East)
Iolani
Saint Francis
Kaiser
McKinley
Castle
Kailua
Kaimuki
Division 3:
(Two Rounds)
Kalani
Kalaheo
Nanakuli
Anuenue
Roosevelt
The bottom (2) teams from Division 1 move down to Division 2 the next season while the top (2) teams in Division 2 move up to Division 1 next season. No exceptions.
For the state tournament, the top 4 teams from Division 1 and the top 2 teams from Division 2 make the same top-flight state tournament, along with (2) NI teams. The Division 3 state tourney is separate.
Division 1:
(One round, top two records qualify, next four records in one-off to determine remaining two seeds (3 v. 6, 4 v. 5) - winners advance to state tournament, losers end season)
Kahuku
Farrington
Kamehameha
Saint Louis
Punahou
Mililani
Leilehua
Waianae
Campbell
Kapolei
Division 2:
(Divisional round + 1 crossover game followed by 8 team playoff)
(West)
Damien
Pac-Five
Moanalua
Radford
Aiea
Waipahu
Pearl City
(East)
Iolani
Saint Francis
Kaiser
McKinley
Castle
Kailua
Kaimuki
Division 3:
(Two Rounds)
Kalani
Kalaheo
Nanakuli
Anuenue
Roosevelt
Re: New Leagues
Couldn't agree more... This year HS football season is a joke. Never seen so many blow outs before. Both OIA and ILH need to merge along with the neighbor islands and form some competitive divisions. You got St Louis QB Tua and. WR Kobayashi putting up impressive numbers against D2 teams but can't do anything against Punahou or Mililani but yet praise them as if they did it against real competition. Today Taulapapa rushed for over a 100 yds on. 6 carries against another D2 team. You got Mililani blowing out teams as well as. Kahuku. Don't get me wrong, these players put up some big #s but it's not their fault on who they play. That's outta of their control. But just remember who they're putting their #s up against. D2.. Cause if Tua and Kobayashi can do that against D2, what does that say about Tuliloa and. Noa, they do it against D1 St Louis? The obvious would be Tuliloa and Noa are way better then Tua and Kobayashi.
Bottom line. Merge the leagues and create better divisions with better competition.
Bottom line. Merge the leagues and create better divisions with better competition.
- huki-lau-lau
- First guy off the bench
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Re: New Leagues
If I had two guns, an AK-47 and a pistol, why would I go into a gun fight with the enemy and give him the AK47 while i use the pistol?
ILH has free reign in recruiting the best talent around the state, why would we (public schools) want to be considered equal to the ILH and then compete in the same division while giving them our Ak-47's? OIA D1 is not Equal to ILH D1, they need to be kept seperate.
the whole reason why some of our public schools are athletically anemic is because the top talent in each community is recruited to play at the ILH schools.
Waipahu, Aiea, Kalani, Kaiser...they all have exceptional athletes in all sports but they are all playing at private schools.
ILH has free reign in recruiting the best talent around the state, why would we (public schools) want to be considered equal to the ILH and then compete in the same division while giving them our Ak-47's? OIA D1 is not Equal to ILH D1, they need to be kept seperate.
the whole reason why some of our public schools are athletically anemic is because the top talent in each community is recruited to play at the ILH schools.
Waipahu, Aiea, Kalani, Kaiser...they all have exceptional athletes in all sports but they are all playing at private schools.
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- huki-lau-lau
- First guy off the bench
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Re: New Leagues
..furthermore, if we look at history over the past decade, if we did merge OIA and ILH D1 back in 2004 it would have been these top 3 teams blowing out everyone else every year.
Pun/stlous/kahuku
kahuku is the only oia school to be competitive enough to hang with the ILH (2013 mililani won the oia but they got blown out in their preseason and title matchup with punahou). the only reason mililani has become competitive recently is because they are the new "leilehua", the school where leeward oahu kids are flocking too (recruiting).
back in the 80's and 90's the OIA games were alot closer because all the kids played in their own districts. now days the parents think their kids are special or nfl material so they think they need to play at a school where they will get best exposure. smart coaches like ron york see this opportunity and is selling the "quality" education and environment that mililani portrays. good for them and im happy. but never should we think that ILH athletics are equal to OIA because it really isnt.
Pun/stlous/kahuku
kahuku is the only oia school to be competitive enough to hang with the ILH (2013 mililani won the oia but they got blown out in their preseason and title matchup with punahou). the only reason mililani has become competitive recently is because they are the new "leilehua", the school where leeward oahu kids are flocking too (recruiting).
back in the 80's and 90's the OIA games were alot closer because all the kids played in their own districts. now days the parents think their kids are special or nfl material so they think they need to play at a school where they will get best exposure. smart coaches like ron york see this opportunity and is selling the "quality" education and environment that mililani portrays. good for them and im happy. but never should we think that ILH athletics are equal to OIA because it really isnt.
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Re: New Leagues
They aren't equal.huki-lau-lau wrote:..furthermore, if we look at history over the past decade, if we did merge OIA and ILH D1 back in 2004 it would have been these top 3 teams blowing out everyone else every year.
Pun/stlous/kahuku
kahuku is the only oia school to be competitive enough to hang with the ILH (2013 mililani won the oia but they got blown out in their preseason and title matchup with punahou). the only reason mililani has become competitive recently is because they are the new "leilehua", the school where leeward oahu kids are flocking too (recruiting).
back in the 80's and 90's the OIA games were alot closer because all the kids played in their own districts. now days the parents think their kids are special or nfl material so they think they need to play at a school where they will get best exposure. smart coaches like ron york see this opportunity and is selling the "quality" education and environment that mililani portrays. good for them and im happy. but never should we think that ILH athletics are equal to OIA because it really isnt.
Personally, I don't think it's THAT important to have competitive games every week. I'd rather watch a super-league as a fan, but the reality is that even super-teams like De La Salle play horrible teams every year.
But the big problem these days is that most of the teams across the state play 8 or less games a year. That's a travesty. All that practice and workouts for eight games? This is what both leagues must fix.
Re: New Leagues
One of the purposes of this post is to find a way to get more competitive games for teams in the state. We can debate the differences between the ILH and OIA but to generalize all ILH and all OIA as the same seems to over-simplify the topic. I am sure that if the state actually enforced the rules it has set down, it would be a lot easier to maintain the competitive balance that perhaps you are worried about. Until the state feels like these rules actually matter, why would any ILH or OIA team change their policies of attracting the best talent to their schools? And let's not be so judgmental to put all the blame on just the schools. Athletes and parents want to attend the best schools, depending on how they define "best". We can all name multiple instances of athletes appearing at a new school. At least they have to sit out a year at an ILH school as opposed to immediately eligible at an OIA school.
Let's just consider these teams as they exist in their present state and consider who we would put in which division and league.
Let's just consider these teams as they exist in their present state and consider who we would put in which division and league.
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- Pine rider
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Re: New Leagues
Sorry but blowouts will always happen. Look at the SEC, which fields 7 or 8 teams in the top 20 yet experiences tons of blowouts between bowl-eligible teams.fanoffb wrote:One of the purposes of this post is to find a way to get more competitive games for teams in the state. We can debate the differences between the ILH and OIA but to generalize all ILH and all OIA as the same seems to over-simplify the topic. I am sure that if the state actually enforced the rules it has set down, it would be a lot easier to maintain the competitive balance that perhaps you are worried about. Until the state feels like these rules actually matter, why would any ILH or OIA team change their policies of attracting the best talent to their schools? And let's not be so judgmental to put all the blame on just the schools. Athletes and parents want to attend the best schools, depending on how they define "best". We can all name multiple instances of athletes appearing at a new school. At least they have to sit out a year at an ILH school as opposed to immediately eligible at an OIA school.
Let's just consider these teams as they exist in their present state and consider who we would put in which division and league.
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Re: New Leagues
Sorry but blowouts will always happen. Look at the SEC, which fields 7 or 8 teams in the top 20 yet experiences tons of blowouts between bowl-eligible teams.[/quote]FatherofCody&Casey wrote:
Obviously, you are out of touch with Hawaii football. There needs to be a drastic change. Agreed, the disparity is almost illegal. It is just a matter of time before someone gets seriously injured. Punahou vs. St. Francis was hard to watch. The powers that be need to wake up and do the what's right. ILH and OIA need to be disbanded to create new leagues. Or, Punahou should just play mainland teams all year. Top mainaland high school programs travel all year throughout the mainland and play the best schools. No league at all.
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Re: New Leagues
Obviously, you are out of touch with Hawaii football. There needs to be a drastic change. Agreed, the disparity is almost illegal. It is just a matter of time before someone gets seriously injured. Punahou vs. St. Francis was hard to watch. The powers that be need to wake up and do the what's right. ILH and OIA need to be disbanded to create new leagues. Or, Punahou should just play mainland teams all year. Top mainaland high school programs travel all year throughout the mainland and play the best schools. No league at all.[/quote]Squid Diver wrote:Sorry but blowouts will always happen. Look at the SEC, which fields 7 or 8 teams in the top 20 yet experiences tons of blowouts between bowl-eligible teams.FatherofCody&Casey wrote:
Punahou isn't that good man.
Re: New Leagues
The 6 teams in the D2 playoffs can play/hang with D1 so what's the point. Just take the money spent on a D2 state tournament and go back to 1 division with a 12 team playoff. 4 OIA, 2 ILH, 2 MIL, 2 KIF and 2 BIFF. Seed the. 5 league champs and put the league runner ups on the opposite side. If teams can't handle or complain no problem...play 8-man.
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- Pine rider
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Re: New Leagues
Obviously, you are out of touch with Hawaii football. There needs to be a drastic change. Agreed, the disparity is almost illegal. It is just a matter of time before someone gets seriously injured. Punahou vs. St. Francis was hard to watch. The powers that be need to wake up and do the what's right. ILH and OIA need to be disbanded to create new leagues. Or, Punahou should just play mainland teams all year. Top mainaland high school programs travel all year throughout the mainland and play the best schools. No league at all.[/quote]Squid Diver wrote:Sorry but blowouts will always happen. Look at the SEC, which fields 7 or 8 teams in the top 20 yet experiences tons of blowouts between bowl-eligible teams.FatherofCody&Casey wrote:
Maybe but nobody should cry when a D1 team beats Iolani by as much as STL did yesterday. Iolani losing to a D1 team badly is no different than Punahou beating St. Louis 55-7. There is no disparity between Iolani and all of the ILH D1 teams.
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- High-quality H20 provider
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Re: New Leagues
Making a point, any ILH team in that case. I mean no disrespect to the Div 2, it's ridiculous. Pac-5, St. Francis, and Damien are far below competitive. It's really uncomfortable to watch. It's a safety issue. I would not feel this way if these teams could manage like Iolani, they don't even come close. More and more mainland teams are leaving their respective leagues to go independent and play other teams from outside states. If were weren't living on a island in the middle of the Pacific. I would say not only ILH but maybe top OIA schools would be doing the same. Or at least contemplating the idea.saynotomercs wrote:Punahou isn't that good man.
- politclyincrekt
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Re: New Leagues
On a related side note, every year I have my fantasy all-state football season and tournament (I use a set formula to figure the games) and the conference and divisions I use seem pretty good. I divide teams by the size of their school (like every other state does) and move only one team up and one team down based on performance (this prevents too much movement and helps to prevent a team who squeaked into the #2 slot from being decimated). I also divide Oahu into 2 separate conferences: Red and Blue (based on whether they are in or out of Honolulu).
Oahu Red (Honolulu) Division I
Punahou
Farrington
Kamehameha
St. Louis
Oahu Red Division II
Damien
Iolani
Kaiser
Kalani
McKinley
Moanalua
Pac-5
Oahu Red Division III
Anuenue
Kaimuki
Roosevelt
Oahu Blue (Rural) Division I
Leilehua
Kapolei
Kahuku
Mililani
Oahu Blue Division II
Aiea
Castle
Kailua
Campbell
Pearl City
Radford
Waianae
Oahu Blue Division III
Kalaheo
Nanakuli
Waipahu
Waialua
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The schedule I use is an NFL type of schedule where the better a team does the previous year, the harder the schedule.
Division I: 8 weeks
Each team plays every other team in its division once (6 weeks)
Each team plays the one team from its sister division (other conference) that finished with the same standing last season once (1 week)
Each team receives 1 bye week (1 week)
Division II: 8 weeks
Each team plays every other team in its division once (6 weeks)
Each team plays the one team from its sister division (other conference) that finished with the same standing last season once (1 week)
Each team receives 1 bye week (1 week)
Division II: 8 weeks
Each team plays every other team in the Division III (regardless of conference) once (6 weeks)
Each team receives 1 bye week (1 week)
Top 2 teams from each conference division play for Division II play-off spot (1 week)
Play-Offs:
Division 1: Top 2 from each division (4 teams), double elimination (3-4 weeks)
Division 2: Top 4 from each division + 1 Division III wildcard berth (9 teams), single elimination (4 weeks)
Oahu Red (Honolulu) Division I
Punahou
Farrington
Kamehameha
St. Louis
Oahu Red Division II
Damien
Iolani
Kaiser
Kalani
McKinley
Moanalua
Pac-5
Oahu Red Division III
Anuenue
Kaimuki
Roosevelt
Oahu Blue (Rural) Division I
Leilehua
Kapolei
Kahuku
Mililani
Oahu Blue Division II
Aiea
Castle
Kailua
Campbell
Pearl City
Radford
Waianae
Oahu Blue Division III
Kalaheo
Nanakuli
Waipahu
Waialua
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The schedule I use is an NFL type of schedule where the better a team does the previous year, the harder the schedule.
Division I: 8 weeks
Each team plays every other team in its division once (6 weeks)
Each team plays the one team from its sister division (other conference) that finished with the same standing last season once (1 week)
Each team receives 1 bye week (1 week)
Division II: 8 weeks
Each team plays every other team in its division once (6 weeks)
Each team plays the one team from its sister division (other conference) that finished with the same standing last season once (1 week)
Each team receives 1 bye week (1 week)
Division II: 8 weeks
Each team plays every other team in the Division III (regardless of conference) once (6 weeks)
Each team receives 1 bye week (1 week)
Top 2 teams from each conference division play for Division II play-off spot (1 week)
Play-Offs:
Division 1: Top 2 from each division (4 teams), double elimination (3-4 weeks)
Division 2: Top 4 from each division + 1 Division III wildcard berth (9 teams), single elimination (4 weeks)
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- Pom pom fluffer
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Re: New Leagues
Wanna eliminate blowouts? Keeping Iolani OUT of the ILH's D2 and away from teams like St. Francis, Waialua, Anuenue, Kalani, Pac-Five, Damien, and even Kaimuki would go a long way to doing that!