If Cadet and Junior Nationals in Fargo is the ultimate result for high school wrestling then Team Illinois is at the top. There are about a dozen "wrestling states" that are in the hunt each year. What, if anything, could our wrestling community do to improve Team Hawaii and/or are overall reputation as a solid, traditional wrestling state. For the record I think Hawaii has been getting better ever since Travis Lee won Fargo. With vision, drive, discipline, dedication AND teamwork could a little state like Hawaii ever compete with the perennial state wrestling teams? Why or why not?
Also, if your not involved in wrestling and just browsing around the high school forums, but have an opinion on how this subject applies to other sports, please feel free to jump in. Hawaii's competitive cheer programs and Little league baseball have already proved that it can be done. What needs to get done for Hawaii sport programs to dominate at a national level?
Building Hawaii Wrestling
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twnoexcuses
- First guy off the bench
- Posts: 324
- Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:05 pm
Re: Building Hawaii Wrestling
I'll play with you.
First, we have to get the OIA, ILH, and outer island leagues to commit to making gym space ,uniform money, and match date increases so that there is a perception that the sport is both honored and valued by the schools. It won't take much. Just give wrestling (boys and girls) 3/4 the gym access that basketball (girl's and boy's) gets. Not even equal, just 3/4 access (up from about 1/5 or less).
Second, there has to be better refereeing. Before I start on this, there are good, fair referees. But, in most other sports, the closed group approach to referee associations works out. In wrestling, it just doesn't. It puts really bad and biased referees on the mat, in important (state championship level) matches. There has to be a meaningful third party competency review and certification process. Too many wrestling matches (the culmination of truly arduous and perhaps the hardest physical training of .any of the high school sports) turn on the incompetence or bias or ego or narcissism of a ref. It turns wrestlers and their families away from the sport when the referees are noticeably unfair or regularly incompetent. We all know who I'm talking about. That in and of itself proves my point.
Third, there as to be a de-emphasis and deterrence on individualism. It's fine for the individual when it happens, but it retards the growth of the sport overall. Coaches, clubs and leagues have to make the lowest rung of the talent heirarchy at any given point in time believe they are as important and relevant as the best. Too many beginning wrestlers get ignored out of the sport, or turn their families into maniacal pursuers of some sort of advantage through private training just to get mat time. You can't blame an individual family for doing that when there are limited competition and development opportunities for the lower rungs of the roster (like wrestling throughout the season on a half mat (even itnermediate basketball players get 9 games a season on a full basketball court)). That dynamic is lessened by more opportunity to "play" and compete being provided by the schools, and better, better and more competent reffing. But in order to grow the sport, you need numbers. You won't get numbers if the chances for advancement are retarded by an early and systemic funneling process.
First, we have to get the OIA, ILH, and outer island leagues to commit to making gym space ,uniform money, and match date increases so that there is a perception that the sport is both honored and valued by the schools. It won't take much. Just give wrestling (boys and girls) 3/4 the gym access that basketball (girl's and boy's) gets. Not even equal, just 3/4 access (up from about 1/5 or less).
Second, there has to be better refereeing. Before I start on this, there are good, fair referees. But, in most other sports, the closed group approach to referee associations works out. In wrestling, it just doesn't. It puts really bad and biased referees on the mat, in important (state championship level) matches. There has to be a meaningful third party competency review and certification process. Too many wrestling matches (the culmination of truly arduous and perhaps the hardest physical training of .any of the high school sports) turn on the incompetence or bias or ego or narcissism of a ref. It turns wrestlers and their families away from the sport when the referees are noticeably unfair or regularly incompetent. We all know who I'm talking about. That in and of itself proves my point.
Third, there as to be a de-emphasis and deterrence on individualism. It's fine for the individual when it happens, but it retards the growth of the sport overall. Coaches, clubs and leagues have to make the lowest rung of the talent heirarchy at any given point in time believe they are as important and relevant as the best. Too many beginning wrestlers get ignored out of the sport, or turn their families into maniacal pursuers of some sort of advantage through private training just to get mat time. You can't blame an individual family for doing that when there are limited competition and development opportunities for the lower rungs of the roster (like wrestling throughout the season on a half mat (even itnermediate basketball players get 9 games a season on a full basketball court)). That dynamic is lessened by more opportunity to "play" and compete being provided by the schools, and better, better and more competent reffing. But in order to grow the sport, you need numbers. You won't get numbers if the chances for advancement are retarded by an early and systemic funneling process.
Re: Building Hawaii Wrestling
OK, high school leagues, MIL, OIA, ILH, BIFF and KIF all need to add dates. As of now I think they all do dual tournaments or individual tournaments on Saturdays. I have talked about this with some good people in one of the leagues above and they want to add a traditional school vs school dual on a Wednesday night. I doubt the HHSAA would like it but we could push for a progressive State Dual Championships too. Combined, this would add match dates. If tournaments are on Saturday they usually are set up on Fridays without BB games so the host team can set up after Fridays practice and go home. The OIA could run their duals Wednesday and Friday nights and switch to individual tournaments on Saturdays. Would that add enough dates, mat time, prestige? What about a big mid season event/tournament with a little cross league action? Do coaches need to propose it to unwilling AD's? Or are AD's told no by a stubborn HHSAA? Is it the DOE or budget. If we wanted to do it couldn't we subsidize it a little? Does a dual on 1 mat after basket ball practice really cost anyone anything? Probably a team could make a little money off the concession. Nice custom singlets and warm ups are a $100 a wrestler. I agree it's important to look sharp so we need to fundraise for it if the school won't pay.
A lot of these school administrators are overwhelmed, worried about liability and compliance. If you do all the ground work and package it for them they usually will go along with it. So do the coaches need to get together and fight for it?
I agree with your assessment on referees but honestly don't know where to start. It's a 3 man committee and what they decide goes. They do all the reviews and there isn't a 3rd party over them other then the HHSAA being satisfied with the job they're doing. I guess it would have to get really terrible before they stepped in and changed it. As for youth wrestling do you think younger families are getting discouraged from bad refereeing too? I think all the high school volunteer referees do a good job and benefit from doing it. HFUSAW, PAL and Maui could do more clinics and training? Anyone in mind to do that. I think the guy in charge now does a great job he just needs more volunteers to work with. Should youth wrestling pay referees? I'd be up for that.
Third part your spot on. Youth wrestling for the masses and at entry level. I think what your describing is an Oahu issue?
Would you agree that Maui is doing a good job on numbers?
The Big Island and Kauai need to do a youth season with clubs wrestling each other in tournaments. It's on the high school programs to initiate. Or is it on HFUSAW?
So let's talk more about increasing youth numbers on Oahu. What are a few quick fixes and what needs to be done long term?
A lot of these school administrators are overwhelmed, worried about liability and compliance. If you do all the ground work and package it for them they usually will go along with it. So do the coaches need to get together and fight for it?
I agree with your assessment on referees but honestly don't know where to start. It's a 3 man committee and what they decide goes. They do all the reviews and there isn't a 3rd party over them other then the HHSAA being satisfied with the job they're doing. I guess it would have to get really terrible before they stepped in and changed it. As for youth wrestling do you think younger families are getting discouraged from bad refereeing too? I think all the high school volunteer referees do a good job and benefit from doing it. HFUSAW, PAL and Maui could do more clinics and training? Anyone in mind to do that. I think the guy in charge now does a great job he just needs more volunteers to work with. Should youth wrestling pay referees? I'd be up for that.
Third part your spot on. Youth wrestling for the masses and at entry level. I think what your describing is an Oahu issue?
Would you agree that Maui is doing a good job on numbers?
The Big Island and Kauai need to do a youth season with clubs wrestling each other in tournaments. It's on the high school programs to initiate. Or is it on HFUSAW?
So let's talk more about increasing youth numbers on Oahu. What are a few quick fixes and what needs to be done long term?
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twnoexcuses
- First guy off the bench
- Posts: 324
- Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:05 pm
Re: Building Hawaii Wrestling
Hawaii high school coaches have to overcome the stockholm syndrome and start becoming squeaky wheels, or let their wrestler's families pursue things and be the squeaky wheels. Being deliriously happy over scraps only begets more scraps.
There are very reasonable "fairness" arguments that can be made for more access to resources. The gym time basketball programs get versus what wrestling gets is the most glaring example.
Although I think there is a thought out process and rationale in the minds of wrestling coaches who try not to make waves, it's the thinking of capitulation and thinking that, in the end leaves the kids themselves at the back of the resource line.
Either the coaches backed up by the customer parents, or the parents themselves if a coach needs cover, need to step forward politely, but firmly and persistently to confront school administrations and advocate for wrestlers. No swearing or histrionics is even needed. The "fairness" argument is just so substantial.
Sure, there are ADs who are jerks and only want to see football and basketball played, but most that I've met are fair people being pushed and pulled all the time so that they end up oiling a lot of squeaky wheels. For some reason, wrestling folk hesitate to push or pull, are prevented from pushing or pulling by coaches, or buy into the false idea that what wrestling gets is merely the best that can be gotten.
One other thing that would help is participation by families that have gone through, up and out of the wrestling system. Unlike just about any sport, it seems like wrestling families tend to disappear from the face of the planet once their last wrestler graduates. But, thise are the families with no theoretical risk of losing things, or having their kids retaliated against.
If you have a kid who wrestled in Hawaii, there's a good chance your kid is the far better for it. Communicating with schools, letting them know that, and making the arguments as to why wrestling is entitled to more resources would be a great way to give back. And also, maybe a chance to do a little sideways complaining about the petty indignities you and your kid(s) suffered as wrestling families.
1Hawaii, you would do a great thing if you found a way to organize all the Wrestling team parents of all the high schools from across the state and found a way to have them make a unified, polite, firm and persistent plea, for more resources for their wrestlers.
There are very reasonable "fairness" arguments that can be made for more access to resources. The gym time basketball programs get versus what wrestling gets is the most glaring example.
Although I think there is a thought out process and rationale in the minds of wrestling coaches who try not to make waves, it's the thinking of capitulation and thinking that, in the end leaves the kids themselves at the back of the resource line.
Either the coaches backed up by the customer parents, or the parents themselves if a coach needs cover, need to step forward politely, but firmly and persistently to confront school administrations and advocate for wrestlers. No swearing or histrionics is even needed. The "fairness" argument is just so substantial.
Sure, there are ADs who are jerks and only want to see football and basketball played, but most that I've met are fair people being pushed and pulled all the time so that they end up oiling a lot of squeaky wheels. For some reason, wrestling folk hesitate to push or pull, are prevented from pushing or pulling by coaches, or buy into the false idea that what wrestling gets is merely the best that can be gotten.
One other thing that would help is participation by families that have gone through, up and out of the wrestling system. Unlike just about any sport, it seems like wrestling families tend to disappear from the face of the planet once their last wrestler graduates. But, thise are the families with no theoretical risk of losing things, or having their kids retaliated against.
If you have a kid who wrestled in Hawaii, there's a good chance your kid is the far better for it. Communicating with schools, letting them know that, and making the arguments as to why wrestling is entitled to more resources would be a great way to give back. And also, maybe a chance to do a little sideways complaining about the petty indignities you and your kid(s) suffered as wrestling families.
1Hawaii, you would do a great thing if you found a way to organize all the Wrestling team parents of all the high schools from across the state and found a way to have them make a unified, polite, firm and persistent plea, for more resources for their wrestlers.
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halaokolele
- Pine rider
- Posts: 282
- Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 11:14 pm
Re: Building Hawaii Wrestling
Its a pipe dream to think Hawaii can be top ten at Fargo but dreams are always good to have.
Hawaii lacks Commitment, Competition & Cash three critical components for success at the national level. Our best kids rarely attend the event let alone any national tournament. Hawaii national team is based on who can pay not who is the best, there is no pride in that and there will never be with that critteria. Most of the kids who can afford are paying thousands of dollars for 4-5 matches because they enter both styles and never got anything close to the caliber og competition.
Sure it starts with the youth but numbers alone cant be the baramoter, you brought up Maui as an example yet they have never won a state title or had the most state champions. I would argue the quality of competition can have a better end result for the wrestlers.
Commitment and Cash goes a long way in wrestling and out here in Hawaii its equally tough to get both. No one should expect to go to Fargo for their first national tournament and do well infact it should not be a wrestlers first national tournament period! No one is doing a kid any favors by telling them they should attend if its their first NT. Corbett and Diamond this year had the best showing, its not by accident that those two are perhaps the most well traveled and experinced on the roster. Their famillies have commited the resources and cash for travel and lodging for many years.
Hawaii will have a Travis Lee or David and Josh but thats a very long time between them. Only Travis won it out of Hawaii, I believe you can get the ocassional freak of nature but a consistent top ten team is a pipe dream
Hawaii lacks Commitment, Competition & Cash three critical components for success at the national level. Our best kids rarely attend the event let alone any national tournament. Hawaii national team is based on who can pay not who is the best, there is no pride in that and there will never be with that critteria. Most of the kids who can afford are paying thousands of dollars for 4-5 matches because they enter both styles and never got anything close to the caliber og competition.
Sure it starts with the youth but numbers alone cant be the baramoter, you brought up Maui as an example yet they have never won a state title or had the most state champions. I would argue the quality of competition can have a better end result for the wrestlers.
Commitment and Cash goes a long way in wrestling and out here in Hawaii its equally tough to get both. No one should expect to go to Fargo for their first national tournament and do well infact it should not be a wrestlers first national tournament period! No one is doing a kid any favors by telling them they should attend if its their first NT. Corbett and Diamond this year had the best showing, its not by accident that those two are perhaps the most well traveled and experinced on the roster. Their famillies have commited the resources and cash for travel and lodging for many years.
Hawaii will have a Travis Lee or David and Josh but thats a very long time between them. Only Travis won it out of Hawaii, I believe you can get the ocassional freak of nature but a consistent top ten team is a pipe dream
Re: Building Hawaii Wrestling
In order for wrestling to thrive, Hawaii needs to have a Collegiate program. Whether it's UH or one of the smaller schools. A Collegiate program will create a training center for local and out of state wrestlers. It will also create a local feeder system from High school.
Re: Building Hawaii Wrestling
twnoexcuses:
OK, say I could organize all the wrestling parents into a unified voice and convince school administrators to embrace wrestling.
We want more mat time in our school gyms. Then they say "absolutely, how can we accommodate you". Do I ask for duals on Wednesday night? These duals could build towards a final 4 between the islands or leagues. Then we crown a Hawaii State duals champion. We can conclude everything just before our district championships. Saturdays would be round robin or bracket tournaments.
Wednesday Night Duals! All around the state gyms would have 1 on 1 duals on a center mat under the lights!
Good food, hype it up, play music, announcer, OIA duals champ vs ILH duals champ on OC 16!
Would that do the trick for issue 1?
Let me connect this to your third issue. With a big hyped up dual vs to power house programs the beginner or entry level wrestler filling the line up is very important. So is the JV dual (from a JV point of view). If Varsity is the main event and JV is part of the show, couldn't we make the middle schools the opening act? For example:
Campbell vs Pearl City Varsity 8pm
Campbell vs Pearl City JV 7pm
Ilima vs Highland Middle 6pm
In the movie Win Win, has any scene ever shown how fun a dual can be to an average person? When Stemler avoids the tech fall from Darth Vader the crowd goes wild, the team gets it's first win and Stemler is the hero. Magic. That could only of happened on 1 mat in the center of the gym.
halaokolele:
Yes it's a pipe dream for now but I want to give it a shot. Let's just discuss how to make a dream a reality. Starts with a plan. You bring up a huge point. Fargo can't be a wrestlers first tournament or Hawaii's only tournament. We are putting the carriage before the horse when we go to Fargo without wrestlers that have been prepared or with wrestlers that haven't. So let's throw it in reverse. What should a Hawaii wrestler do before Fargo.
Also, we could do Fargo cheaper.
Costs can be addressed with fundraising and fundraising comes with organizing. People will organize if you have a good plan. So let's plan out the path over the next 10 years. Not Fargo (the carriage) but the perpetration for Fargo success (the horse).
How do we get two dozen Liams and Diamonds?
Kama:
Has anyone seriously pitched the idea of a woman's wrestling program to BYU-Hawaii, HPU or Chaminade? We would bring home a national championships and dominate! Why not just add a men's program too then? Who would be the best person to sell the idea to a college AD. Seriously, if you had a short list of people who could sell this to a Hawaii college who would/should be on it?
OK, say I could organize all the wrestling parents into a unified voice and convince school administrators to embrace wrestling.
We want more mat time in our school gyms. Then they say "absolutely, how can we accommodate you". Do I ask for duals on Wednesday night? These duals could build towards a final 4 between the islands or leagues. Then we crown a Hawaii State duals champion. We can conclude everything just before our district championships. Saturdays would be round robin or bracket tournaments.
Wednesday Night Duals! All around the state gyms would have 1 on 1 duals on a center mat under the lights!
Good food, hype it up, play music, announcer, OIA duals champ vs ILH duals champ on OC 16!
Would that do the trick for issue 1?
Let me connect this to your third issue. With a big hyped up dual vs to power house programs the beginner or entry level wrestler filling the line up is very important. So is the JV dual (from a JV point of view). If Varsity is the main event and JV is part of the show, couldn't we make the middle schools the opening act? For example:
Campbell vs Pearl City Varsity 8pm
Campbell vs Pearl City JV 7pm
Ilima vs Highland Middle 6pm
In the movie Win Win, has any scene ever shown how fun a dual can be to an average person? When Stemler avoids the tech fall from Darth Vader the crowd goes wild, the team gets it's first win and Stemler is the hero. Magic. That could only of happened on 1 mat in the center of the gym.
halaokolele:
Yes it's a pipe dream for now but I want to give it a shot. Let's just discuss how to make a dream a reality. Starts with a plan. You bring up a huge point. Fargo can't be a wrestlers first tournament or Hawaii's only tournament. We are putting the carriage before the horse when we go to Fargo without wrestlers that have been prepared or with wrestlers that haven't. So let's throw it in reverse. What should a Hawaii wrestler do before Fargo.
Also, we could do Fargo cheaper.
Costs can be addressed with fundraising and fundraising comes with organizing. People will organize if you have a good plan. So let's plan out the path over the next 10 years. Not Fargo (the carriage) but the perpetration for Fargo success (the horse).
How do we get two dozen Liams and Diamonds?
Kama:
Has anyone seriously pitched the idea of a woman's wrestling program to BYU-Hawaii, HPU or Chaminade? We would bring home a national championships and dominate! Why not just add a men's program too then? Who would be the best person to sell the idea to a college AD. Seriously, if you had a short list of people who could sell this to a Hawaii college who would/should be on it?
Re: Building Hawaii Wrestling
AD's will give up until a certain point. They are numbers driven, the survival of their jobs depends on it. You can't try to appeal to their charitable side, we are not a charity.
It starts with money, bring in revenue for the department and the AD's will have to play ball. Every tournament should charge an entrance fee. Don't like it? go play soccer, vb, football, or any other sport that costs thousands just to join. If we act like a second class sport, then we will get treated like a second class sport. We cant keep expecting to take coaches and administrators to take food off the table from their own families to provide for a hobby. If you pay coaches and administrators, then you can hold them to a high standard and have a stable of capable replacements. Its hard to question or push a volunteer.
15 years ago, we were desperate for volunteers and kids. We are not desperate anymore.
It starts with money, bring in revenue for the department and the AD's will have to play ball. Every tournament should charge an entrance fee. Don't like it? go play soccer, vb, football, or any other sport that costs thousands just to join. If we act like a second class sport, then we will get treated like a second class sport. We cant keep expecting to take coaches and administrators to take food off the table from their own families to provide for a hobby. If you pay coaches and administrators, then you can hold them to a high standard and have a stable of capable replacements. Its hard to question or push a volunteer.
15 years ago, we were desperate for volunteers and kids. We are not desperate anymore.
Re: Building Hawaii Wrestling
AD's will give up until a certain point. They are numbers driven, the survival of their jobs depends on it. You can't try to appeal to their charitable side, we are not a charity.
It starts with money, bring in revenue for the department and the AD's will have to play ball. Every tournament should charge an entrance fee. Don't like it? go play soccer, vb, football, or any other sport that costs thousands just to join. If we act like a second class sport, then we will get treated like a second class sport. We cant keep expecting to take coaches and administrators to take food off the table from their own families to provide for a hobby. If you pay coaches and administrators, then you can hold them to a high standard and have a stable of capable replacements. Its hard to question or push a volunteer.
15 years ago, we were desperate for volunteers and kids. We are not desperate anymore.
It starts with money, bring in revenue for the department and the AD's will have to play ball. Every tournament should charge an entrance fee. Don't like it? go play soccer, vb, football, or any other sport that costs thousands just to join. If we act like a second class sport, then we will get treated like a second class sport. We cant keep expecting to take coaches and administrators to take food off the table from their own families to provide for a hobby. If you pay coaches and administrators, then you can hold them to a high standard and have a stable of capable replacements. Its hard to question or push a volunteer.
15 years ago, we were desperate for volunteers and kids. We are not desperate anymore.
Re: Building Hawaii Wrestling
Locavore:
Sorry this didn't copy right but you kinda get the idea from the schedule below.
What are we requesting from the schools? Pearl City the 2014 state champs held 1 tournament in their high school gym. That's it. Other then this 1 Saturday tournament, what did the Pearl City AD have to sacrifice? What money is needed to run a dual Wednesday night? If bb practice is over and the gym is empty you just put a mat down, set up 1 table, 1 clock and you dual in was an empty, unused gym. It is an OIA sport in a OIA gym for what would be an OIA scheduled event. Everything is paid for isn't it? Are we talking about electricity costs? Wear and tear of the gym? OIA referees? $2 spectator fee I guess should cover that. I'm confused at how or why a school administration would be put out.
Nov. 23 Saturday Nov. 30 Saturday
Dec. 7 Saturday (SAT)
Weigh-in: 12:30 pm
Start: 2:00 pm
Dec. 14 Saturday (ACT) Dec. 21 Saturday
Dec. 28 Saturday
Jan. 4 Saturday Weigh-in: 8:00 am
Start: 9:30 am
Weigh-in: 8:00 am
Start: 9:30 am
Weigh-in: 8:00 am
Start: 9:30 am
Jan. 11 Saturday EAST
Jan. 18 Saturday EAST
Jan. 25 Saturday (SAT) EAST
Feb. 1 Saturday
EAST
Open Week Open Week
Mini Tournament
Site: Kalaheo
All East Teams
Open Week Open Week Open Week
Mini Tournament @ Campbell
@ Kamehameha-Kapalama @ McKinley
Dual Meet Tournament
Site: Castle
McKinley v Kalaheo, Castle v Farrington, Kahuku v Kailua, Farrington v McKinley, Kalaheo v Kailua, Castle v Kahuku, McKinley v Kailua, Farrington v Kahuku, Kalaheo v Castle
Dual Meet Tournament
Site: Kaiser
Kalani v McKinley, Kaiser v Castle, Halau Lokahi v Kahuku, Halau Ku Mana v Kahuku, Kalani v Castle, Kaiser v Kahuku, Halau Lokahi v McKinley, Halau Ku Mana v McKinley, Kalani v Kahuku, Kaiser v McKinley, Halau Lokahi v Castle, Halau Ku Mana v Castle
Dual Meet Tournament
Site: Kalaheo
Kahuku v McKinley, Kailua v Castle, Farrington v Kalaheo, McKinley v Castle, Kahuku v Kalaheo, Kailua v Farrington
Dual Meet Tournament
Site: Kailua
Kalani v Kailua, Kaiser v Farrington, Halau Lokahi v Kalaheo, Halau Ku Mana v Kalaheo, Kalani v Farrington, Kaiser v Kalaheo, Halau Lokahi v Kailua, Halau Ku Mana v Kailua, Kalani v Kalaheo, Kaiser v Kailua, Halau Lokahi v Farrington, Halau Ku Mana v Farrington, Halau Lokahi v Halau Ku Mana
Mini Tournament
Site: Aiea
All West Teams
Kaiser,Kapolei,Kalani,Mililani,Castle,Radford,Farrington,Campbell,Kailua,Waipahu,Halau Lokahi,Halau Ku Mana,Nanakuli Moanalua ,Waialua,Kalaheo,Leilehua,Roosevelt,Aiea ,Kaimuki,Waianae,Kahuku,Pearl City,McKinley
All Girls
Weigh-in: 8:30 am
Site: Kalani WEST
Kalani v Kaimuki, Kaiser v Roosevelt, Halau Lokahi v Moanalua , Halau Ku Mana v Moanalua , Roosevelt v Kalani, Kaimuki v Moanalua , Kaiser v Halau Lokahi, Kaiser v Halau Ku Mana, Kalani v Moanalua , Roosevelt v Halau Lokahi, Roosevelt v Halau Ku Mana, Kaimuki v Kaiser
Weigh-in: 8:30 am
Site: Kaimuki WEST
Moanalua v Kailua, Roosevelt v Farrington, Kaimuki v Kalaheo, Moanalua v Farrington, Roosevelt v Kalaheo, Kaimuki v Kailua, Moanalua v Kalaheo, Roosevelt v Kailua, Kaimuki v Farrington
Weigh-in: 12:30 pm
Site: Moanalua WEST
Halau Lokahi v Kalani, , Halau Ku Mana v Kalani, Moanalua v Kaiser, Roosevelt v Kaimuki, Kalani v Kaiser, Halau Lokahi v Kaimuki, Halau Ku Mana v Kaimuki, Moanalua v Roosevelt
Weigh-in: 8:30 am
Site: Kahuku WEST
Moanalua v McKinley, Roosevelt v Castle, Kaimuki v Kahuku, Moanalua v Castle, Roosevelt v Kahuku, Kaimuki v McKinley, Moanalua v Kahuku, Roosevelt v McKinley, Kaimuki v Castle
Site: Pearl City
Waianae v Leilehua, Mililani v Pearl City, Leilehua v Radford, Waianae v Mililani, Radford v Pearl City, Leilehua v Mililani
Site: Waialua
Pearl City v Waipahu, Leilehua v Waialua, Pearl City v Waialua, Leilehua v Kapolei, Pearl City v Kapolei, Leilehua v Waipahu
Site: Mililani
Mililani v Radford, Pearl City v Waianae, Radford v Waianae, Pearl City v Leilehua
Site: Leilehua
Pearl City v Nanakuli, Leilehua v Campbell, Pearl City v Campbell, Leilehua v Aiea , Pearl City v Aiea , Leilehua v Nanakuli
Start: 10:00 am Site: Kapolei
Nanakuli v Kapolei, Campbell v Waialua, Aiea v Waipahu, Waialua v Nanakuli, Kapolei v Waipahu, Campbell v Aiea , Nanakuli v Waipahu, Waialua v Aiea , Kapolei v Campbell
Start: 10:00 am Site: Waianae
Radford v Nanakuli, Waianae v Campbell, Mililani v Aiea , Radford v Campbell, Waianae v Aiea , Mililani v Nanakuli, Radford v Aiea , Waianae v Nanakuli, Mililani v Campbell
Start: 2:00 pm Site: Nanakuli
Aiea v Nanakuli, Waipahu v Campbell, Waialua v Kapolei, Nanakuli v Campbell, Aiea v Kapolei, Waipahu v Waialua
Start: 10:00 am Site: Waipahu
Radford v Waipahu, Waianae v Waialua, Mililani v Kapolei, Radford v Waialua, Waianae v Kapolei, Mililani v Waipahu, Radford v Kapolei, Waianae v Waipahu, Mililani v Waialua
Feb. 6 Thursday
Feb. 7 Friday
Feb. 8 Saturday (ACT)
Feb. 7 Friday Feb. 13 Thursday
Feb. 14 Friday Feb. 15 Saturday
Feb. 20 Thursday
Feb. 21 Friday Feb. 22 Saturday
Feb. 23 Sunday Feb. 28 Friday Mar. 1 Saturday
OIA JV Championships @ Radford
Host Schools: Radford, Aiea, Roosevelt, Castle
Fri., Weigh-in 3:00 pm Sat., Weigh-in: 12:30 pm
Dual Meet Championship Tournament @ Pearl City
Weigh-in: 4:00 pm
OIA Divisionals Championship @ Aiea (West), Farrington (East)
West Host Schools: Aiea, Kapolei, Leilehua, Mililani
East Host Schools: Farrington, Kaiser, Kaimuki, Kalaheo
Fri., Weigh-in: 3:00 pm
Seeding Meeting 7:00 pm @ Moanalua Room R-201
Start: 4:30 pm Start: 2:00 pm
Start: 5:30 pm
Seeding Meeting 7:00 pm @ Aiea
Start: 4:30 pm Start: 10:00 am Start: 10:00 am
Seeding Meeting 7:00 pm @ Leilehua
Start 12:30 pm Start: 11:00 am
Seeding Meeting 1:00 pm @ Iolani School
Sat., Weigh-in: 8:30 Sat., Weigh-in: 8:30
OIA Varsity Championship @ Leilehua
Host Schools: Leilehua, Moanalua, Kahuku, Kailua
Fri., Weigh-in: 11:00
am am
am am
HHSAA Tournament @ NBC
Sat., Weigh-in: 9:00
Fri., Weigh-in: TBD Sat., Weigh-in: TBD
Sorry this didn't copy right but you kinda get the idea from the schedule below.
What are we requesting from the schools? Pearl City the 2014 state champs held 1 tournament in their high school gym. That's it. Other then this 1 Saturday tournament, what did the Pearl City AD have to sacrifice? What money is needed to run a dual Wednesday night? If bb practice is over and the gym is empty you just put a mat down, set up 1 table, 1 clock and you dual in was an empty, unused gym. It is an OIA sport in a OIA gym for what would be an OIA scheduled event. Everything is paid for isn't it? Are we talking about electricity costs? Wear and tear of the gym? OIA referees? $2 spectator fee I guess should cover that. I'm confused at how or why a school administration would be put out.
Nov. 23 Saturday Nov. 30 Saturday
Dec. 7 Saturday (SAT)
Weigh-in: 12:30 pm
Start: 2:00 pm
Dec. 14 Saturday (ACT) Dec. 21 Saturday
Dec. 28 Saturday
Jan. 4 Saturday Weigh-in: 8:00 am
Start: 9:30 am
Weigh-in: 8:00 am
Start: 9:30 am
Weigh-in: 8:00 am
Start: 9:30 am
Jan. 11 Saturday EAST
Jan. 18 Saturday EAST
Jan. 25 Saturday (SAT) EAST
Feb. 1 Saturday
EAST
Open Week Open Week
Mini Tournament
Site: Kalaheo
All East Teams
Open Week Open Week Open Week
Mini Tournament @ Campbell
@ Kamehameha-Kapalama @ McKinley
Dual Meet Tournament
Site: Castle
McKinley v Kalaheo, Castle v Farrington, Kahuku v Kailua, Farrington v McKinley, Kalaheo v Kailua, Castle v Kahuku, McKinley v Kailua, Farrington v Kahuku, Kalaheo v Castle
Dual Meet Tournament
Site: Kaiser
Kalani v McKinley, Kaiser v Castle, Halau Lokahi v Kahuku, Halau Ku Mana v Kahuku, Kalani v Castle, Kaiser v Kahuku, Halau Lokahi v McKinley, Halau Ku Mana v McKinley, Kalani v Kahuku, Kaiser v McKinley, Halau Lokahi v Castle, Halau Ku Mana v Castle
Dual Meet Tournament
Site: Kalaheo
Kahuku v McKinley, Kailua v Castle, Farrington v Kalaheo, McKinley v Castle, Kahuku v Kalaheo, Kailua v Farrington
Dual Meet Tournament
Site: Kailua
Kalani v Kailua, Kaiser v Farrington, Halau Lokahi v Kalaheo, Halau Ku Mana v Kalaheo, Kalani v Farrington, Kaiser v Kalaheo, Halau Lokahi v Kailua, Halau Ku Mana v Kailua, Kalani v Kalaheo, Kaiser v Kailua, Halau Lokahi v Farrington, Halau Ku Mana v Farrington, Halau Lokahi v Halau Ku Mana
Mini Tournament
Site: Aiea
All West Teams
Kaiser,Kapolei,Kalani,Mililani,Castle,Radford,Farrington,Campbell,Kailua,Waipahu,Halau Lokahi,Halau Ku Mana,Nanakuli Moanalua ,Waialua,Kalaheo,Leilehua,Roosevelt,Aiea ,Kaimuki,Waianae,Kahuku,Pearl City,McKinley
All Girls
Weigh-in: 8:30 am
Site: Kalani WEST
Kalani v Kaimuki, Kaiser v Roosevelt, Halau Lokahi v Moanalua , Halau Ku Mana v Moanalua , Roosevelt v Kalani, Kaimuki v Moanalua , Kaiser v Halau Lokahi, Kaiser v Halau Ku Mana, Kalani v Moanalua , Roosevelt v Halau Lokahi, Roosevelt v Halau Ku Mana, Kaimuki v Kaiser
Weigh-in: 8:30 am
Site: Kaimuki WEST
Moanalua v Kailua, Roosevelt v Farrington, Kaimuki v Kalaheo, Moanalua v Farrington, Roosevelt v Kalaheo, Kaimuki v Kailua, Moanalua v Kalaheo, Roosevelt v Kailua, Kaimuki v Farrington
Weigh-in: 12:30 pm
Site: Moanalua WEST
Halau Lokahi v Kalani, , Halau Ku Mana v Kalani, Moanalua v Kaiser, Roosevelt v Kaimuki, Kalani v Kaiser, Halau Lokahi v Kaimuki, Halau Ku Mana v Kaimuki, Moanalua v Roosevelt
Weigh-in: 8:30 am
Site: Kahuku WEST
Moanalua v McKinley, Roosevelt v Castle, Kaimuki v Kahuku, Moanalua v Castle, Roosevelt v Kahuku, Kaimuki v McKinley, Moanalua v Kahuku, Roosevelt v McKinley, Kaimuki v Castle
Site: Pearl City
Waianae v Leilehua, Mililani v Pearl City, Leilehua v Radford, Waianae v Mililani, Radford v Pearl City, Leilehua v Mililani
Site: Waialua
Pearl City v Waipahu, Leilehua v Waialua, Pearl City v Waialua, Leilehua v Kapolei, Pearl City v Kapolei, Leilehua v Waipahu
Site: Mililani
Mililani v Radford, Pearl City v Waianae, Radford v Waianae, Pearl City v Leilehua
Site: Leilehua
Pearl City v Nanakuli, Leilehua v Campbell, Pearl City v Campbell, Leilehua v Aiea , Pearl City v Aiea , Leilehua v Nanakuli
Start: 10:00 am Site: Kapolei
Nanakuli v Kapolei, Campbell v Waialua, Aiea v Waipahu, Waialua v Nanakuli, Kapolei v Waipahu, Campbell v Aiea , Nanakuli v Waipahu, Waialua v Aiea , Kapolei v Campbell
Start: 10:00 am Site: Waianae
Radford v Nanakuli, Waianae v Campbell, Mililani v Aiea , Radford v Campbell, Waianae v Aiea , Mililani v Nanakuli, Radford v Aiea , Waianae v Nanakuli, Mililani v Campbell
Start: 2:00 pm Site: Nanakuli
Aiea v Nanakuli, Waipahu v Campbell, Waialua v Kapolei, Nanakuli v Campbell, Aiea v Kapolei, Waipahu v Waialua
Start: 10:00 am Site: Waipahu
Radford v Waipahu, Waianae v Waialua, Mililani v Kapolei, Radford v Waialua, Waianae v Kapolei, Mililani v Waipahu, Radford v Kapolei, Waianae v Waipahu, Mililani v Waialua
Feb. 6 Thursday
Feb. 7 Friday
Feb. 8 Saturday (ACT)
Feb. 7 Friday Feb. 13 Thursday
Feb. 14 Friday Feb. 15 Saturday
Feb. 20 Thursday
Feb. 21 Friday Feb. 22 Saturday
Feb. 23 Sunday Feb. 28 Friday Mar. 1 Saturday
OIA JV Championships @ Radford
Host Schools: Radford, Aiea, Roosevelt, Castle
Fri., Weigh-in 3:00 pm Sat., Weigh-in: 12:30 pm
Dual Meet Championship Tournament @ Pearl City
Weigh-in: 4:00 pm
OIA Divisionals Championship @ Aiea (West), Farrington (East)
West Host Schools: Aiea, Kapolei, Leilehua, Mililani
East Host Schools: Farrington, Kaiser, Kaimuki, Kalaheo
Fri., Weigh-in: 3:00 pm
Seeding Meeting 7:00 pm @ Moanalua Room R-201
Start: 4:30 pm Start: 2:00 pm
Start: 5:30 pm
Seeding Meeting 7:00 pm @ Aiea
Start: 4:30 pm Start: 10:00 am Start: 10:00 am
Seeding Meeting 7:00 pm @ Leilehua
Start 12:30 pm Start: 11:00 am
Seeding Meeting 1:00 pm @ Iolani School
Sat., Weigh-in: 8:30 Sat., Weigh-in: 8:30
OIA Varsity Championship @ Leilehua
Host Schools: Leilehua, Moanalua, Kahuku, Kailua
Fri., Weigh-in: 11:00
am am
am am
HHSAA Tournament @ NBC
Sat., Weigh-in: 9:00
Fri., Weigh-in: TBD Sat., Weigh-in: TBD
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twnoexcuses
- First guy off the bench
- Posts: 324
- Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:05 pm
Re: Building Hawaii Wrestling
Ability to generate revenue is actually one of the biggest fairness arguments. Wrestling DOES charge admission. Baseball, soccer, paddling, cross country, track and field, swimming, water polo, DON'T.Locavore wrote:AD's will give up until a certain point. They are numbers driven, the survival of their jobs depends on it. You can't try to appeal to their charitable side, we are not a charity.
It starts with money, bring in revenue for the department and the AD's will have to play ball. Every tournament should charge an entrance fee. Don't like it? go play soccer, vb, football, or any other sport that costs thousands just to join. If we act like a second class sport, then we will get treated like a second class sport. We cant keep expecting to take coaches and administrators to take food off the table from their own families to provide for a hobby. If you pay coaches and administrators, then you can hold them to a high standard and have a stable of capable replacements. Its hard to question or push a volunteer.
15 years ago, we were desperate for volunteers and kids. We are not desperate anymore.
Re: Building Hawaii Wrestling
sorry, my answer was mixed between high school and club wrestling.
For clubs, we kinda get coaches and board member based on who has time and who wants to spend their money.
for high school, if a host school wants to pay for a bus, trainer, custodian, and have their kids make weight twice a week, I guess we could start there. I'm all for it and on your side because if we could cut back the 12 hour Saturdays that is common, maybe it would be more. friendly for parents and spectators. Alternating Wednesday. and Saturday duals might help grow the fan base.
For clubs, we kinda get coaches and board member based on who has time and who wants to spend their money.
for high school, if a host school wants to pay for a bus, trainer, custodian, and have their kids make weight twice a week, I guess we could start there. I'm all for it and on your side because if we could cut back the 12 hour Saturdays that is common, maybe it would be more. friendly for parents and spectators. Alternating Wednesday. and Saturday duals might help grow the fan base.
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halaokolele
- Pine rider
- Posts: 282
- Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 11:14 pm
Re: Building Hawaii Wrestling
Thought this thread was competing at Fargo?
Build Hawaii wrestling into you are blue in the face the competition is simply not here. Hawaii state champs get routinely beat by non placers of top tier states. While Hawaii kids are playing around at a Hawaii freestyle tournament, the competitors are traveling state to state, with access to the cream of the crop of all states as they are all hunting each other. Hawaii kids go to one tournament (Fargo) and typically get wiped off the planet earth and than rack it up to "the experience". That's horrible for the kids and the parents soon give up, the process has not seemed to change. Administrators and Coaches just seemingly want to go up there with the biggest amount of wrestlers to say they had a team.
The other "taboo" "C" is coaching. Hawaii just lacks coaching period, no other way to put it. This is the only state where a bunch of Judo, MMA, Cross Fit, Ju Jitsu guys run wrestling programs. There is no group of coaches that live and die wrestling as they do in the states. Not sure if there is a program in Hawaii that has an entire staff that has wrestled past highschool, let alone college or did anything significant once there. Hawaii has coaches that may have wrestled a year or two, there is a reason why they did not continue in the sport (hint).
The only chance I see is the group of kids who are going to college now and comeback to coaching with their kids and establish deep rooted love for the sport.
"pipe dream"
Build Hawaii wrestling into you are blue in the face the competition is simply not here. Hawaii state champs get routinely beat by non placers of top tier states. While Hawaii kids are playing around at a Hawaii freestyle tournament, the competitors are traveling state to state, with access to the cream of the crop of all states as they are all hunting each other. Hawaii kids go to one tournament (Fargo) and typically get wiped off the planet earth and than rack it up to "the experience". That's horrible for the kids and the parents soon give up, the process has not seemed to change. Administrators and Coaches just seemingly want to go up there with the biggest amount of wrestlers to say they had a team.
The other "taboo" "C" is coaching. Hawaii just lacks coaching period, no other way to put it. This is the only state where a bunch of Judo, MMA, Cross Fit, Ju Jitsu guys run wrestling programs. There is no group of coaches that live and die wrestling as they do in the states. Not sure if there is a program in Hawaii that has an entire staff that has wrestled past highschool, let alone college or did anything significant once there. Hawaii has coaches that may have wrestled a year or two, there is a reason why they did not continue in the sport (hint).
The only chance I see is the group of kids who are going to college now and comeback to coaching with their kids and establish deep rooted love for the sport.
"pipe dream"
Re: Building Hawaii Wrestling
If it was part of the OIA schedule you don't pay for trainers and custodians and you don't have to do use of facility forms because your not asking for permission.
Yes you would weigh in twice but if that was a deal breaker we could go with a 2 pound allowance I guess.
Yes I think the guest school would need to work into the budget about 4 or 5 "away" duals. Bus is $75 for a half day I think. You could make that back at the "home" duals. 10 weeks is 10 more matches and opportunity to build your team.
I think for high school it's a little more work with a pay off. For the wrestling community it should be a no brainer. It's also what most "wrestling states" do. I know we don't have to do it just because the mainland does it. No reason to not try it in my opinion.
Yes you would weigh in twice but if that was a deal breaker we could go with a 2 pound allowance I guess.
Yes I think the guest school would need to work into the budget about 4 or 5 "away" duals. Bus is $75 for a half day I think. You could make that back at the "home" duals. 10 weeks is 10 more matches and opportunity to build your team.
I think for high school it's a little more work with a pay off. For the wrestling community it should be a no brainer. It's also what most "wrestling states" do. I know we don't have to do it just because the mainland does it. No reason to not try it in my opinion.
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Leftfieldcoachlikeu
- High-quality H20 provider
- Posts: 111
- Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:11 pm
Re: Building Hawaii Wrestling
MMA, cross fit, jiu jitsu, and judo clubs and coaches exist because its understood that memberships are standard. More than a few people cried really loudly to anyone who would listen about certain wrestling clubs charging a monthly membership. Well guess what, good coaches who do all the work got turned off and now were left with the overwhelming under qualified left overs.halaokolele wrote:Thought this thread was competing at Fargo?
Build Hawaii wrestling into you are blue in the face the competition is simply not here. Hawaii state champs get routinely beat by non placers of top tier states. While Hawaii kids are playing around at a Hawaii freestyle tournament, the competitors are traveling state to state, with access to the cream of the crop of all states as they are all hunting each other. Hawaii kids go to one tournament (Fargo) and typically get wiped off the planet earth and than rack it up to "the experience". That's horrible for the kids and the parents soon give up, the process has not seemed to change. Administrators and Coaches just seemingly want to go up there with the biggest amount of wrestlers to say they had a team.
The other "taboo" "C" is coaching. Hawaii just lacks coaching period, no other way to put it. This is the only state where a bunch of Judo, MMA, Cross Fit, Ju Jitsu guys run wrestling programs. There is no group of coaches that live and die wrestling as they do in the states. Not sure if there is a program in Hawaii that has an entire staff that has wrestled past highschool, let alone college or did anything significant once there. Hawaii has coaches that may have wrestled a year or two, there is a reason why they did not continue in the sport (hint).
The only chance I see is the group of kids who are going to college now and comeback to coaching with their kids and establish deep rooted love for the sport.
"pipe dream"
I'm with you. We need to get some of these "old school" coaches who don't know what the hell they're doing and bringing down an entire league. A few coaches over the past couple years got fired or retired and wrestling has been looking up ever since.
There can only be one person from left field, and I'm not going anywhere!